#it doesn't even have to be medical eg neurological

[seasidewanderers]

Here’s a good one for sysconversation!

What changes, realistically, do you think might come down the line in psychology in the next few years in terms of plurality?

ohh that's a good one!

hmm... I think there might be more research on endogenic systems, following the Stanford tulpa one. I'm especially interested in the neurology around endogenic plurality! quite a few endogenic plurals are interested in psychology, so I think there's gonna be an increase in endogenic plural psychs, and that leads back to more research (especially psychological)

also, this is more of a selfish reason: I'd want to be a part of that future research, especially regarding spiritual plurality :)

[verdemoun]

Do any of the gang members find out that they have any disorders/mental illnesses/etc. once they get timewarped and if so what are their reactions? Ranging from “oh, I though that was normal” to “NUH UH!”

timewarp was founded on the gang realising they have ptsd and kieran's autism being more obvious and worse in timewarp. but in detail

kieran is autistic

sean might have adhd but he doesn't actually have hyperactivity as a symptom. plot twist he just has that erratic trauma avoiding energy. it is a lot more masking severe c-ptsd and imposter syndrome that is his behind his exaggerated happy personality. see reform school lore

arthur is one of the few diagnosed he definitely had an acquired brain injury which while a physical injury manifests with mostly neurological symptoms. sometimes he gets confused or irritated for seemingly no reason, and this has been a thing since long before timewarp. the gang move on from joking about how dumb he is he does have an intellectual disability as part of his ABI. his response was very "oh I thought that was normal" and "bah i ain't need help".

the gang have subconsciously been aware of this long before they had the medical knowledge to understand it and are all pretty used to quickly explaining things or reminding arthur of stuff he forgets. lowkey consider this canon ever notice how the gang talk to arthur sometimes not entirely condescending but explaining things on his level eg sean being the one to point out the grays will definitely recognise him and he should hide in the wagon, grimshaw almost playfully reminding a grown man to wash because he straight up forgets, gentle reminders of what they're doing through heists even beyond game mechanics a lot of heist cut scenes are super repetitive like charles very much breaking down we're blowing a hole in the bank. take the spool and connect it to the detonator. the detonator is over there. it just feels like they know arthur isn't always entirely there and are v supportive. arthur is so curious and asks so many questions and the gang just roll with it and answer most of the time it feels so kind and positive.

arthur also definitely has adhd. hyper-fixates on new interesting thing for a month and then completely forgets everything he ever learned about it

almost the entire gang acknowledge they have ptsd/c-ptsd and varying levels of trauma as a response their lives/childhoods/relationships with parents/being a VDL. acknowledging it doesn't mean they do anything to move towards recovery because they are still mostly men raised with 19th century values who hang shit on each other for flinching at loud noises or being 'is someone shooting at us' alert

lenny and isaac as the most aware begging their friends/family to take their mental health seriously and are constantly met with 'lmao no' 'that's?? normal?? what do you mean' and 'NUH'. lenny cries 'please this is re-traumatising you are actively upsetting yourselves' while the gang go 'boo grow a pair' despite experiencing varying levels of anxiety attack in response to triggers.

john will only bring up 'hey stop making wolf jokes about me it is Actually a Trigger' to stop the gang bullying him. very genuine trigger and phobia of wolves and wolf-like dogs but still doesn't take it seriously himself

bill has recognized anger management issues and is in therapy. alcoholism is a definite concern. he's also just got a lot of internalised homophobia and complex feelings about the gang and his own childhood to unpack and learn how to articulate and express his feelings in a healthier way. only one of the adult gang who is actively trying to improve his mental health through therapy go king

the d in dsm-5 stands for dutch and he is thriving in in-patient care. not even the doctors know entirely what to diagnose him because he seems to have symptoms of everything but is responding best to medications traditionally used to support bi-polar

special acknowledgement to karen who is very very depressed but is a thriving with anti-depressants because trying to get the gang to go to actual psychologists and therapy is Hell. her and sean send each zoloft memes constantly

[frogeyedape]

That last addition is such a misunderstanding of what humanizing is. Pathologizing: I can't eat much of your honey glazed ham because I have diabetes (Blame the disease). Humanizing: I'd love more of the ham but I have to check my blood sugar first (Recognize emotions & deal with challenges).

Long explanation for anyone who wants it:

Pathologizing: attributing neurodivergent behavior to mental disease (works for physical disease/body differences, too!)

Humanizing: recognizing and celebrating strengths of neurodiversity while addressing challenges face by individuals & the community

Eg: autistic meltdown--pathologizing: I had a meltdown because I have autism vs humanizing: I was overwhelmed and overstimulated and X said Y and I melted down. X was frightened/overstimulated/annoyed by my meltdown. I can work on recognizing when I am becoming overstimulated and utilize coping skills (eg going to a quiet place to de-stress) as approriate. X can be told it's not their fault for asking Y and that I just need quiet sometimes, and offered things to do if another meltdown occurs or if warning signs are spotted (eg walk away/stop adding stimulation and/or coping skills for experienced distress at seeing someone else having a hard time)--critically, it doesn't need to be *me* explaining this to X, and X isn't *owed* an explanation of my personal diagnoses, but if I'm around X a lot it may help both of us to do so

It is an important and critical point that being neurodivergent does not absolve you of responsibility for what you choose to do and say. If you yell rude/mean things at a friend because of your neurodivergency/understandable human emotions, you were still rude/mean to your friend and your friend still did not deserve to be yelled at. It's not your fault you felt attacked/overwhelmed; if being mean was involuntary/completely not a choice it's not your fault but it IS your responsibility. Your responsibility to recognize if you hurt your friend's feelings & at least explain. If it was to any degree a choice--if you could've just yelled w/o words, or turned away, or screamed into a pillow/bag/your arm--then choosing to be mean instead is something you are at fault for, and you should apologize. Regardless of fault/choice, you are responsible for recognizing your behavior and learning how to cope/react/avert such situations better.

In the case of autistic meltdown, or another totally involuntary event: asthma attack, heart attack, diabetic shock, panic attack, epilepsy--NOT limiting this just to neurological/psych mediated events--you're not at fault for having something happen to you! You *are* responsible for your person & health, and should seek/engage with aids to manage your condition *within your ability*. EG managing diabetes might look like changing what you eat, monitoring your blood sugar regularly, regular doctor's visits and/or using insulin -- if you *can* do these things, it is your responsibility to do them--or in other words, you owe yourself diabetes care & management. It's not your fault if despite your best efforts you still go into glycemic shock or even just keep having high blood sugar.

Of course, society has a responsibility as well--and it falls short too often--to make it *possible* for everyone to take care of themselves/get care they need.

I would like to note the careful difference between responsibility (personal), responsibility (shared), and fault/blame. You are (personally) responisble for taking care of your health and managing your behavior/conditions. Society has a (shared) responsibility to take care of individuals who need it, ie each individual in society shares a part of societal responsibility to look out for their fellow humans. People are not at fault and should not be blamed or shamed for involuntary medical/psych events, AND are still responsible for doing what they can to take care of themselves or get needed care. *what they can* is gonna be different for everyone!

this is gonna be a really cool frame to apply to anyone with any mental illness stiffer than light social anxiety. can't wait to be berated for having an autistic meltdown and not taking personal responsibility for how much of a fucking bummer it is for everyone around me lmfao

[delusion-of-negation]

That anon is wrong anyway. Neurodevelopmental disorders like autism are considered mental illnesses, which is just another way to say mental disorders, just because they're neurological doesn't change that. They're in the dsm, which only contains mental health disorders. The thing IS a lot of people want to stop defining it as a mental illness because autism does not inherently cause disfunction or impair mental health but as of now that's how it is defined. It's also not the only disorder that doesn't inherently impair but are still considered mental illness.

the anon in question

yee yee, I know, mental health being an umbrella term, but I do see where they're coming from, there's some advocacy that separates neurological and mental (and there's advocacy that talks about how plenty of stuff is neurodivergence that doesn't fit the colloquial "mental health" category, eg various other neurological issues, like I have), and like you said, some people want to move away from that view. I've talked before about how I don't see physical and mental health as the wholly distinct and unique categories that some people assert they are, so I'm definitely not the person who's gonna tell you that any two categories like that are so easily and wholly differentiated. and as for impairment, it does impair me so I'm a little biased in that, but the whole thing is... a whole thing. like, it impairs some people (and, like myself, not in ways that would simply be fixed by accomodation, social acceptance, etc), and less so or not at all others, and that's also true of other mental disorders (schizoid personality disorder is a commonly cited example iirc). it's a complex topic, as is the entire medical field, and any point I want to make also branches out into a thousand other points, so let's just settle for saying that the way we view things right now is limited and often has an element of demonisation, and a lot of changes need to be made, while also bearing in mind that we can't go too far into the view that social reforms would be enough to fully replace medicine, because people like me would die even faster without some medicalisation. but yeah, I'm too tired for that topic.

[illbeintheattic]

Although I can't see Alice or Edward being autistic, as it just doesn't really line up (I can't even see them meeting proper criteria, and their pasts already explain their behaviors). I have heard people headcanon Alistair as autistic which lines up better.

The way I understood it was that venom fixes imperfections and such upon transformation. So things like sun spots, scars, freckles, etc., things that can appear overtime or randomly in your life could be excluded and you essentially go back to "base system settings". So if you weren't born with it, it disappears.

But autism, as far as we know, is something you are born with. I don't think it could get rid of something you were born with and developed in utero. Autism IS "base system settings".

In saying that, I find it hard to believe that venom would even correct other things one can be born with. Eg. being born blind or deaf. Being born with down syndrome or other neurological issues. Basically being born with things that "naturally" develop before birth. Even genes you're born with wouldn't necessarily disappear. Addiction genes, mental illness genes, etc..

Where as if you became blind later on in life, that may be "fixed" upon transformation. Even deficiencies within your body would be "fixed", like low vitamin levels, immune system problems, etc..

You would essentially be the "physically healthiest" version of yourself but with autism or whatever other condition you have.

Vampires with neurological conditions is actually a very interesting topic (and had been discussed many years ago at one point). One could even argue that certain traits or symptoms that come with those condtions could be "enhanced" as a "semi-power" like Rosalie's 'beauty'.

I always like to think that interoception issues could be both a blessing and a curse with being a vampire. On one hand you may not understand why your throat is burning. Or you may think someone smells good but not relate it to "hunger/thirst". So you could likely have really good control of your thirst. But being quick to anger or irritate due to not realising you're thirsty would be a downfall.

Or maybe you have more enhanced senses due to sensory issues or being blind or deaf, which again, would be a blessing and a curse.

The only sucky thing about all of it, is where conditions that can be managed with medication as a human, can't be as a vampire.

Overall, vampires can be neurodivergent or have disabilities. (I actually kinda headcanon Emmett as being dyslexic and/or maybe even dyscalculia.)

Can twilight vampires have autism? This is a genuine question because like...as an autistic person myself I think it'd be really interesting but at the same time vampires are supposed to be like super human and flawless and wanting to die when you touch velvet isn't exactly like the coolest thing ever. If you get what I mean because like, I sort of a tiny bit headcanon both Alice and Edward as autistic but also at the same time canonically could they have it? Because that type of representation could be so cool in like a mythical setting. Like Emmett with adhd would be so great. I'm asking this because I'm not that knowledgeable on the vampire lore in twilight as I'm still quite new to the fandom itself and the actual intricacies of the lore despite watching all the films like a hundred times but we all know they're not the best book to movie adaptations so...

Idk it's 1am and I've just woken up. LET ME YAP!!! CAN VAMPIRES BE NERODIVERGENT OR NOT!?!?! Help me Twilight fandom!!