#if grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon sums up messianic christianity/christians for jesus pretty well.

[indecisiveavocado]

Hello! You are (probably) wrong about Messianic "Judaism"

You have probably been referred here because you were making some awful arguments about Messianic "Judaism".

That's ok, that's why you're here.

How in depth do you want me to go?

One sentence

Messianic "Jews", "Jews" for Jesus, and other movements like that are not Jewish, they are Christian.

Two sentences

Messianic "Jews", "Jews" for Jesus, and other movements like that are not Jewish, they are Christian. They may sincerely believe they are Jewish, and they may look superficially Jewish, but they are still Christian.

A paragraph

Messianic "Jews" and other movements that claim to be Jewish but believe Jesus was the Messiah are not Jewish. They are Christian. They may sincerely believe that they are Jewish, but that doesn't change it. If I sincerely believe that I am, say, Muslim, that does not make me Muslim. They believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and Judaism does not. They are Christians roleplaying as Jews.

Questions

But there are Jewish athiests!

Yes. But Jewish atheists and agnostics are generally honest about it. Judaism is flexible on the degree of belief in God you need. It is not flexible on Jesus not being the Messiah. (Plus, athiests haven't genocided us for coming up on 2000 years, so they have a degree of goodwill Christians don't have as much of.)

But Chabad--

[Edit: This originally said the group of Chabadniks who think their Rebbe was the Messiah were not Jewish.]

The Chabadniks who think their Rebbe was the Messiah are still Jewish, but Messianics are not. Why?

First, consider degree of departure. Beliefs about the Messiah are important in Judaism, certainly; but not as much as monotheism. Allegedly, one Rabbi in Talmud, Elisha ben Abuya, questioned the monotheistic aspect, and henceforth he was referred to as 'Acher' (Other). The Sh'ma affirms the monotheistic aspect of Judaism. Of Rambam's thirteen principles of faith, one deals with the Messiah. Four deal with monotheism in some way or another. From a Jewish view, Christianity is, at best, questionably monotheistic.

Second, the intent differs. Chabad tries to get nonobservant Jews more observant (even with a few quirks in religious practice). Messianic Christianity tries to pull Jews away from Judaism.

Finally, of course, how widespread the thing is varies. In Chabad, it is a minor group, and certainly not a core tenet. In Messianic Christianity, it is a core tenet of it and indeed a major distinguishing aspect from Jewish denominations.

But they must have some merit! If they didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah--

And if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

How can it be this simple?

Christianity (regardless of how much they fight over it) is fundamentally a broad group. It's easily broad enough to include Messianic Christians without blinking.

You're anti-Messianic practices!

I am, yes. I am against the lying and misrepresentation their liturgy, beliefs, etc consist of. I am against the image of Judaism they project. If they stopped pretending to be Jewish (or converted to actual Judaism), I would have no problem with them. But, again: if Grandma had wheels, she'd be a wagon. A fundamental part of Messianic Christianity is pretending to be Jewish by culturally appropriating Jewish practices, which is very sketchy given that Christians have consistently genocided Jews, including forcibly converting us.

Jews: if you see someone insistent Messianic Christianity is Judaism, feel free to direct them here!