#idk there's just a lot of negativity (from anons and within writers etc) now

[taegularities]

i miss the old tumblr so much

[lillupon]

So, I've got a very long rant/opinion here and Idk really know how to say this without coming off kinda bad but I'm gonna say it anyways. I agree with the fact that the seventeen tag has been kinda dry lately on most fanfic places, but it's really only in the smut area. It's the sane way with other groups too I feel like. All of the nice little innocent tags are boomin to this day and thats completely fine. I think the smut tag is dry tho bc lately I feel like a few social issues (like sexualizing people and disrespecting them and their identity) have crossed over into kpop and have been ?blown out of proportion? Lately there's been a rampage of people who like to say that writing smut about someone is disgusting and is dehumanizing because people want to assume that it would make the idols uncomfortable which could equate to some morality issues on how you are reducing someone only to their body without their consent and a bunch of stuff like that. It kind of pisses me off bc this is fiction. About grown adults. Clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life. I think a shit ton is wrong with the world we currently live in, and deciding to come after something that isn't even real bothers me. Like what does that actually accomplish. But yeah, I think thats a reason why smut has been dying down. I mean, on youtube almost every video about unpopular opinions, or things they dont like about kpop will include something about shipping idols in fanfics. And then everyone in the comment section will talk about how its all fine and dandy in moderation, but once people start writing smut it's crossing the idols personal boundaries. It's something I've been seeing a lot more often and I think people who are interested in writing smut are being turned away from it bc we've gotten to a point where people are being called disgusting for having fantasies.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending in this Ask. 

I want to preface this by saying: when I write or talk about Mingyu and Wonwoo fucking on my blog, it is a fantasy. I am not speculating about what the real Mingyu and Wonwoo might be like in bed. I am imagining the versions of Mingyu and Wonwoo that I have created in my head, that exist only in my stories. None of it is real. I understand that this can be a blurry boundary for some people. But for me, the separation between fantasy and reality is well-defined. Now, on to your Ask!

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. You’ve also touched on many of the issues I have been struggling with myself as of late. It’s difficult to argue about morals since everyone has a different set of values, as well as different comfort levels. Some people think real person fiction (RPF) is a gross invasion of privacy. Others are fine with it. And others don’t care one way or another. There is no single answer; I can only offer my answer. Which means, of course, people are welcome to disagree with it, or parts of it. 

In this essay (LOL But forreal: this is an essay), I will be sharing my experience in the k-pop fanfic community from 2014 to present, the etiquette I personally abide by as a reader and writer of RPF, as well as my stance on RPF in general.

I started reading and posting fanfics back in 2014/2015 on a website called AsianFanfics (AFF). Obviously, no one on that site had a problem with RPF, since AFF is a platform made specifically for sharing stories about Asian celebrities. For many years, I read and enjoyed RPF with zero guilt. I scribbled away by myself in my own corner of fandom and curated my own content. I didn’t interact much with other fans, readers, or writers. I didn’t have a Twitter, and I only used tumblr to reblog memes. As a result, I’ve been able to avoid a lot of anti-shipping discourse, as well as purity and cancel culture. I had no idea there were so many negative opinions about RPF. It wasn’t until I became active on the subreddit r/Fanfiction last year that I learned about all the discourse surrounding RPF. 

This newfound ‘awareness’ does make me feel guilty at times—but only because after mulling this over, I still don’t think this is something to feel guilty about.

Here’s what I remember, first and foremost, when I create and consume RPF: fanfics and my favourite ships are fictional, and fiction is fantasy. This is basic etiquette when it comes to RPF, and most people in the k-pop fandom understand this. Delusional fans exist, of course, but they are not representative of the entire k-pop community. 

Another point of etiquette is to keep fanfics within fandom spaces. I would never push my fics into celebrities’ faces, or go around claiming that my fanfics are accurate representations of a k-idol’s life or personality, in any way, shape, or form. I would also discourage directing ship-related questions to official accounts, or bringing them up during fansigns or other face-to-face interactions; I believe that in these instances, shipping does have the potential to strain real-life relationships.

So with basic etiquette out of the way, let me share my approach to RPF in general.

As much as we like to think we know our favourite celebrities, we really don’t. All we see is their public persona. And this public persona is intentionally controlled, managed, and curated by a team of people: directors, tabloids, editors, makeup artists, publicists, etc. How “real” are these celebrities? We are so distanced from them that they may as well be fictional.

I draw from the public persona that idols project, and I work them into my own writing. But at the end of the day, these personalities are my own interpretation. My interpretation is probably nothing like an idol’s actual personality. I just use the “public persona/character” that idols portray as inspiration for my own stories, which are set in wildly different universes.

More than anything, I think of k-pop idols as “actors” in my fic. You know how when you write an original novel, you scroll through Google images, looking for the perfect person to portray your original character? RPF is literally that, except you might build upon pre-existing dynamics and personalities.

When it comes to explicit fanfiction, two main concerns are prevalent: one of consent, and one of sexualisation.

If we argue against explicit RPF due to lack of consent, we should be willing to apply the same lens to all explicit works. How do we know that the creator of a movie, book, series, etc., is okay with us using their characters in our stories, explicit or not? We don’t. Perhaps some creators encourage fanfiction, but don’t want their lovingly crafted characters engaging in sexual acts or experiencing trauma. We just don’t know. I feel this line is even more blurred when we talk about characters from movies or TV series.

Let’s take Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, as portrayed by Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan, from the Captain America movies as an example. I am willing to bet that when people consume and create explicit fanfiction about Steve and Bucky, they are imagining Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan in their heads. I doubt many people are imagining the 2D cartoon versions of Steve and Bucky, even though they’re technically the exact same characters. Why? Well, it could be because movies are more readily and easily consumed than comics, and so people are unfamiliar with comic book Steve and Bucky. But it might also be because fans find Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan attractive. Is this really any different from RPF, where fic authors make up everything about a celebrity’s life?  

When readers and writers of fanfic talk about how hot Steve Rogers or Bucky Barnes is, those comments are about Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan’s bodies. When reading explicit stories, fans are going to picture Chris and Sebastian’s bodies in their head, doing sexual things. Can we say, “Well, it’s not really you, Chris/Sebastian”, when in a way, it is?

The reality is, people are going to thirst over celebrities, regardless of whether or not explicit fanfiction exists. They’re going to post thirst tweets on Twitter. They’re going to talk to friends and strangers online about how hot [insert celebrity name here] is. They’re going to fantasize about dating and having sex with their favourite celebrity. Or, as it is in my case, they’re going to make up stories in their heads about their favourite idols dating and banging each other. People are going to do all of this without ‘getting consent’ from the celebrity. Cracking down upon and shaming writers of RPF isn’t going to change any of that.

To be honest, I’m not sure why people think it is disgusting to imagine sexual scenarios about real people. It is okay and normal to have these kinds of fantasies. I suppose the alternative is to fantasise about having sex with cartoon characters instead? It’s a very binary way of thinking to say that if you imagine/write real people in explicit scenarios, you are immediately sexualising, dehumanising, or objectifying them. There is more to dehumanisation than writing smut about our favourite celebrities. For one thing, you can love someone and appreciate all parts of them, and still want to fuck their brains out. And generally, fanfics come from a place of love—love that is not only sexual in nature.

Is it the sharing aspect inherent to fanfiction? The possibility that a celebrity might stumble upon explicit works about them? The chances are very low, I think, of the k-pop idols I enjoy writing about coming across my English fics. But I also believe in curating your own content, and that applies to celebrities too. Perhaps a celebrity should not go searching for fanfics about themselves. And of course, people should not show celebrities their fanfics, unless invited.

Another argument I hear against (explicit) RPF is, “How would you feel if someone wrote fanfiction about you?” First off, I don’t like this argument because there’s a difference between someone who decides to be a public figure versus someone who decides to remain a regular private citizen. Celebrities should and do know what they’re getting into when they choose their occupation. (This is not to say, “They are celebrities; sexualise them all you want because that’s what they signed up for.” Here, I am only acknowledging that people might have sexual fantasies about celebrities they are attracted to. Presumably, celebrities are cognizant of this.)  

If someone (whose existence I am not even aware of, mind you) decides they want to write explicit fanfiction of me in some tiny corner of the Internet, I wouldn’t care so long as: (1) they don’t shove it into my face, and (2) they don’t harass me and ask invasive questions about my personal life and relationships. It’s not hurting me or negatively affecting my life, so it wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar. When fanfiction remains within its appropriate spaces, it is largely harmless. 

Now, if a k-pop idol were to ask their fans to stop writing fanfiction about them, would I? Yes, I would. However, I can’t imagine that happening. Judging by the number of ‘sexy’ concepts, fanservice moments, and variety shows such as ‘We Got Married’, I am certain that k-pop idols realise they are the stars of many fantasies—some of which are explicit in nature. Considering the prevalence of shipping in the k-pop industry, I would argue that shipping is subtly encouraged.

It’s sad that so many talented writers are shamed out of fandom, or feel that k-pop cannot be the medium through which they tell their stories, or explore their sexuality, or cope with trauma, or simply have fun. Professional works and Hollywood love their RPF—readers and writers of fanfics should be able to, as well. 

As you said Anon, “clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life” (this is a lovely sentence, by the way). The kind of person who dehumanises another and reduces them to a sexual object will do so some other way, if not via fanfiction. I don’t think the issue of fetishisation can be fixed simply by telling people not to write explicit RPF. In my experience, people who read and write RPF are more respectful and thoughtful about these things than the general public. We’ve all seen the general public say highly sexual things about celebrities in the media and to their faces, or tag celebrities in their thirst tweets. Are these things less invasive than fanfiction? Personally, I don’t think so. And in my opinion, there are more pressing and damaging issues in stan culture than fanfic.

In conclusion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with creating and consuming RPF, both explicit and non-explicit so long as we:

Remember we are writing fiction

Keep RPF within its appropriate space, and

Do not harass celebrities about their personal lives and relationships

RPF is not for everyone. There may be people who enjoy RPF, but draw the line at explicit stories. This is fine. Everyone has their own personal preferences. What is not fine, however, is attacking people for creating things you don’t like. I’m not sure what kind of moral crusade people are on and what they hope to achieve by shaming writers of RPF, explicit or otherwise. Ultimately, fic authors are writing a fantasy. It’s not real; no one is being hurt. I think it’s important for people to curate their own content, and AO3 makes it very easy to filter out explicit works and unwanted tags. 

Maybe this is me trying to justify my own participation in explicit RPF—I don’t know. What I do know is that I love k-pop, and fandom is an important part of my media and entertainment experience. I adore the k-pop idols I write about, and I just want to imagine them being happy and getting lots of love and orgasms. Let a bitch be horny, goddamn… 

Some bonus fun facts!

At the time I am writing this, on AO3:

26.2% of Stray Kids fanfics are rated M or E

26.3% of Seventeen fanfics are rated M or E

29.0% of Merlin fanfics are rated M or E

34.9% of Captain America (Movies) fanfics are rated M or E

40.1% of BTS fanfics are rated M or E ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Coincidentally, I saw this post on Reddit this morning: Can we have a RPF positivity post?

[yoonia]

DIA! Writing anon again. I just wanted to say i am soso grateful you took the time to answer in details and share your experience, thoughts and advice!! I just woke up to it and it made me so happy! I'm gonna try out your method on outlining, and see where all that brainstorming and structure leads me! I also loved what you said about including members in dialogues or cameo. I always love that in fics, bc it's somewhat unexpected? And it's a nice surprise. Thanks for reminding me of that! (1/3)

(2/3) Sorry this is turning into a multi part ask again lol. Don't feel pressured to answer it right away(/at all, of course!). Everything you said was clear, but I do have another question, if that's ok? Do you ever use your own life/trauma/personality as a base or back(/)story for your characters? I saw a lot of people criticising this, like "you shouldn't use your writing as therapy." For some reason a lot of my ideas come from a personal place, but i'm getting self conscious about it. Wdyt?

(3/3) As long as it's honest, not a "this character has no flaw bc i have no flaw!" kind of thing, what's so bad about giving your characters some of your own insecurities/experiences? Doesn't it make it somewhat more "real"? Anyway, about that writing journal... It sounds amazing I would totally read that!! I'm sure a lot of ppl would be interested in it too! But of course, no pressure. Only do it if you have the time and energy! Take care love!! Ty for this conversation, have a nice day!! Xx

DIA! Istg I'm gonna leave u alone at some point. I just thought about something. Character development. How do u go abt it? Do u list all ur characters, write their backstories, qualities, flaws, personalities, fam/relationships, little trivia? Do you just go with the flow and not really bother? My lead's been too "perfect" (he's a "safe place"/support system), I guess I should backtrack. I need to fuck him up a bit, otherwise it's unrealistic, right? This is hard. Thoughts? Thank u love!! (4)

Thanks for coming back to me. It is always a pleasure to help whenever I can so never feel sorry about it. I’m the one who should probably apologise for taking so goddamn long to answer each one T^T I’ve been busy with work, nursing my foster kittens and preparing for...something, in my personal life, so I haven’t been around much.

First of, I would have to disagree when somebody says something like not using writing as a form of therapy. I really have to debunk that because writing can be a form of therapy. Hell, even I have been using writing as my own personal therapy.

Here’s the thing, though. Using your own personal life experience and putting them into the story you are writing can be good and bad at the same time. The positive factor of it would be that (1) you will be adding something that is “real” into the plot and create “real” characters and, (2) by understanding the context of the real-life experience you are bringing into the story, you will have the ability to create a solid backstory. The negative side is that if you are not careful or if that past experience involves a personal trauma, it might be triggering to some readers. I’ve seen this happening in the past, when writers put past traumas (for example, physical abuse) into the story without proper warning or too many graphic descriptions and it triggered a lot of their audience which resulted in strong reactions through negative comments, public complaints, etc.

Just remember to put certain boundaries when you are trying to bring out these life experiences and plan it properly and with proper research when needed. And remember that when writing fanfiction, even though most readers and writers have the ability to separate the characters in the story with the real living persons whose names and characters traits you are placing in the story, there are still many that could not do just the same.

Giving flaws and insecurities into the characters is always a good idea. Let readers see the characters’ weaknesses, fears, pain, and let them feel what the characters feel so they can get themselves more engrossed into the story better. Characters who are too perfect might seem great at the beginning, but sometimes it can make the story appear a bit “bland”. Not to mention, these “flaws” will allow any character development to transpire. 

Now, this may be able to answer your last question, because yes, I am a total sucker to any character development happening in a story. Just as I mentioned previously, witnessing your characters grow in the story you are writing will pull your audience deeper into your story and have them more engrossed into it. There is a certain thrill and pride whenever it happens. I have to be honest, there have been times when I give up on a certain story (whether writing it or reading it somewhere) only because I’m not seeing any development in the characters. Because not seeing your character grow can make it feel like you are stuck in one point no matter how much the story grows (idk if I explained it well but you probably get the gist of it).

Another answer to your last question, I have different techniques in building a story and my characters. Sometimes I will take my sweet time building up their backstory, flaws, personalities to have a character come into “life”, but other times, I just let the character grows on their own according to the plot. It depends more on which I am putting my full attention on with a story. For example, in Carousel, I just let the characters grow along with how the plot develops, that is why I can sometimes delete a scene or two that I have planned for months when it doesn’t necessarily work best with how the plot flows or if it no longer fits with the character’s growth. Meanwhile, About Time and Blood Moon Rising have their own proper planning with intricate listings of each character’s backstory, purposes, and even their own timelines before I started plotting the scenes.

Now, if we’re talking about the character that you mentioned as “too perfect”, you don’t need to go so far as backtracking if you already have the story progressing. You can always fuck a character up by making a twist on the plot ahead. Every aspect in real life always has their own twists anyway, like a very perfect household may encounter a storm in it, or a student with perfect grades can get stuck on a one wild night of partying thanks to a dorm mate, or something similar to those, so you can bring it into your story to finally show a flaw in your character even if it’s just a tiny bit of it.

Speaking of writing diaries, I might as well make one within this week. Although it might not be as specific as the ones I put out during my NaNo projects. So far, I have only been keeping track of how much I have written within a week and how far I have gotten by listing my word count into my monthly activity calendar, like this:

As you can see, I haven’t been writing as much as I want to lol so the diary will only show the days when I do write instead of showing a day to day progress.

Anyway, good luck with your writing! Let me know if I can still be of any help or if you have managed to pull through with it :)