#idk i have read and enjoyed anne rice's books but for some reason the show does not appeal to me

[queenhawke]

the more people keep saying iwtv is the greatest show on television rn the less i want to watch it. i think my brain is broken

[cbrownjc]

I think fans got that "hates Lestat" thing from the overall way ep5 was handled and then the resulting "yeah Lestat needs to go through a redemption arc after this" opinions from Sam, since in the first book afaik Lestat IS horrible, but he never did something like this to Louis. As for Armand/Louis, I've mainly seen people ship them more for the aesthetic of it, at least when you don't know the full context of Armand and his backstory and then romance with Louis, and you only base it on the current scenes. Since technically, Armand doesn't LOOK worse or just as bad as Lestat from what we've seen, the weirdest thing about him is putting on the role for Rashid for Louis. And for fans that like Louis as the character we have seen so far on the show (but not one that we've seen everything that's fully true about), I can understand people preferring Armand from everything so far in comparison to Lestat. But after the changes with Lestat I'm not sure if they'll technically make Armand any better on the show, especially with what we've seen of him in the present and how his relationship with Louis looks now.

Hey Anon,

I understand some people were hurt by EP5, but people gotta stop thinking it had anything to do with how any of the showrunners personally feel about the characters IMO. It was a choice made to set up a character arc, rightly or wrongly, and that's really it.

The staff writers have made it clear before this that Season 3 is the season Rolin especially wants to get to. Which we now know from his own mouth that will be The Vampire Lestat season if it happens. And they have still made Louis and Lestat (especially Lestat) more overtly romantic, and Lestat way more romantic towards Louis more than the first book ever did, before and after EP5. Even the very way in which Lestat turned Louis is way more sympathetic and romantic than in the book or the 1994 movie.

People can dislike the man for the choices made for EP5, and that's fine. (And he didn't even write that episode.) But that doesn't change some of the more sympathetic choices made wrt Lestat's character as opposed to the books either, IMO.

IDK. As I said after EP5 aired, maybe I feel the way I do because I know even in the later books, when Lestat is supposedly more sympathetic, he still does a lot of heinous shit too. And yet, I still enjoyed reading about his character even after that stuff.

I don't, and never have, looked toward Anne Rice's vampire chronicles characters for ethical, moral, or even just healthy choices. Lestat has character growth over the course of the series, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But none of the characters in this story are ever morally better than others, Not even Louis (for all he acts like he is.)

All the characters in this are all f-ed up and toxic, just in various different ways and degrees. It just depends on how much f-ed up-ness and toxicity you are willing to take wrt a particular character when it comes down to it, IMO.

Which brings me to Armand. I mean, if people are shipping him and Louis mostly for the aesthetic, as you say, then okay, they can do them, I guess. I just hope they are okay with that aesthetic being the main reason why after the revelation of what Armand's true character is like (at this point in the story). Because if they haven't read the books, then aesthetic really is the only thing they can go by since they have zero idea what Armand's true character is or is really like.

Rashid was a performance. Not Armand's true character.

And I honestly think Armand, and what happens in Paris, will be worse than what happened in the book, if that's possible. (It’s something I’ve been saying even before the Armand reveal.) And not just because of what they had Lestat do that was unsympathetic on the show. But because I don't think the show is trying, in any way, to portray vampires as really being - in any way - moral or ethical creatures. Quite the opposite, really.

And especially when it comes to the vampires who are outside Louis, Lestat, and Claudia's little family bubble.

The show is leaning into the Horror part of this story just as much as it is the Gothic part. And Armand does some heinous shit in this story (and is a much better manipulator, given his spell and mind gifts), which I do not think the show will soften at all. They really have zero reasons to.

[astudyinfreewill]

Hey, do you know of any books with characters as well written as in trc? Idk I trust your opinions on these things

hey anon! that’s very nice of you, but i’m afraid your trust is a bit misplaced in this case, because i’m actually pretty bad at book recs, especially of the YA fantasy kind. this is primarily because my degree requires me to do so much academic reading that often by the end of the day i have no energy to read for pleasure, so it’s a rare and welcome event when a book series captures my attention enough that i make the effort (this is part of the reason why i have so much love for trc, because it got me to read fiction again at a time where i had really missed reading). the other issue is that my brain tends to latch onto things quite strongly, so if i’m “stuck” on a book series/show/movie/videogame, sometimes i don’t have the same level of investement in my “secondary” fandoms (even though i do still enjoy them).

with all of that said: i think the last book series that i read whose characters spoke to me as much as the trc ones would be the six of crows duology by leigh bardugo (six of crows and crooked kingdom). i think they’re extremely well crafted characters, and actually much more diverse than the trc ones, in gender, ethnicity, and body shape -- which is always good. the writing is great too, in a very different way from trc - it’s much more action-packed and fast-paced, and i read them both in a few days. (of course, you may already have read these, as the diagram of trc fandom and soc fandom is very often a circle).

however if you haven’t read them yet and you do end up enjoying the soc duology, then i suggest you give king of scars (the first volume in leigh bardugo’s planned nikolai duology) a try as well. it has some of my favourite characters from soc, as well as some of my favourite characters from its prequel, the grisha trilogy (which, on the other hand, i cannot recommend because i disliked the writing, the plot, and pretty much all the main characters).

one of the other series that i often see recommended by people who enjoy trc is v.e. schwab’s shades of magic trilogy, which as far as i can tell has well-written characters as well. however i can’t fully recommend it yet because i have only read the first book so far (due to my aforementioned reading issues, and the fact that the magic and worldbuilding in the first book didn’t grip me quite as much as the other two series.)

for something completely different - the last series of books i got invested in before trc (with the exception of harry potter, which i think almost every millennial and zoomer has read) were the vampire chronicles by anne rice. i still think the characters of this series are complex, compelling, and well written. however these books come with huge caveats, which are as follows:

these are gothic horror rather than fantasy, and they are adult fiction, not YA books, which means the themes in them tend to be darker and more problematic - in the literal sense of the word, i.e. there’s a lot of morally grey (and outright ethically wrong) stuff. i think of them as the literary equivalent of a show like penny dreadful, if the comparison helps 

the books were also written in the 70s and 80s, so they are not going to be as socially aware and inclusive as a modern series will be (however most of the characters are explicitly queer, as the canon view of the series is that vampires disregard gender in their attraction)

the writing, especially in the first book, has a tendency towards purple prose; also, i got into these books when i was 15/16: both my world views and taste in writing has evolved A LOT since then, and i haven’t reread the series in a while, so i can’t vouch that i would like them as much today as i did then.

last but not least, i only recommend the first three books (interview with the vampire, the vampire lestat, and the queen of the damned). in my opinion, the fourth book (the tale of the body thief) is when shit started really going downhill - and only got much, much worse in later books (i mean both in quality of writing and just plain gross, distasteful content). queen of the damned has a satisfying conclusion. i’d stop there, and that’s where canon ends for me - read any further at your own risk.

finally, i open up the floor to my lovely followers!! if you have any series that you think have well-written, captivating characters, please drop them in the replies or in my ask box - i’m sure anon would love more options, and so would i :D