#idk i do like taking the piss out of casey's paranoia bc he is objectively paranoid and i adore him for it. but i do also very much Get It

[batsplat]

okay in an act of gross journalistic malpractice, I realise I'd completely forgotten this controversy coming back in 2020. here's what casey said (x):

At the end of 2015, Casey Stoner said goodbye to Honda and worked as a test rider for Ducati from 2016. Almost five years after returning to Ducati, Stoner reveals why he left Honda. In a YouTube video with fellow countryman Chris Vermeulen, Stoner blames Marc Marquez. "I tried it at Honda at the beginning, but was pushed out by the young gun. He didn't want me there," says Stoner, who worked as a top tester for HRC after his active career. He later helped Ducati develop the Desmosedici. However, Stoner has never taken part in a race since his retirement at the end of 2012.

which livio suppo... uh, quite strongly denied (x):

"If you know Casey and talk to him, he'll say 'believe me' at least twice in ten minutes. He always knows everything. In reality, Marquez wasn't involved in this decision. I can say that," Suppo said at the 'MotoGP RoundTable' . "We informed him, but he did not comment on the matter. I know Marc and I don't think he would have minded racing against Casey. In fact, he probably would have loved it," commented Suppo, who ended his collaboration with Honda at the end of the 2017 MotoGP season and later switched to electric bike manufacturer Thok. According to Suppo, Stoner's comments should not be taken too seriously. The Italian himself had a lasting experience when he and the HRC officials decided not to allow Stoner to race. When Honda's regular rider Dani Pedrosa was unable to take part in a few races at the start of the 2015 season, Stoner offered to take part in the race in Austin. "We were seriously considering it at the time," Suppo says looking back. "In the end, we felt it was better not to do it. There were several reasons for that," the former HRC team manager recalls, explaining: "First of all, (Shuhei) Nakamoto (former HRC vice president; editor's note) had a huge amount of respect for Casey. You must not forget that Casey was the rider who brought HRC a title again after a few years." "Nakamoto didn't want Casey to do anything that would put his reputation in a bad light. It was also a difficult phase of the season for Marc. He had won two titles in a row back then, but in 2015 he struggled with the bike until Barcelona. The start of the season was not easy for him," said Suppo, citing another reason that spoke against Stoner racing. "All in all, we felt it was better not to do it. Casey still thinks I was the one who was against it. That's why he doesn't talk to me anymore. But that's Casey," Suppo notes.

now, look. take that as you will. I'm the last person to deny casey his paranoia, but I also think.......... these guys do have a bit of a habit of gassing up whoever they've worked with last at the expense of everyone else. idk! you can draw your own conclusions about honda's supposed great respect for casey's reputation while simultaneously quietly spreading (dubious) rumours about his supposedly poor testing lap times to the press. casey is paranoid but marc probably did at the very least badmouth casey's performances as a test rider, so. who can say!!

but yeah, given how influential suppo was in both the ducati and the honda stages of casey's career, how casey considered him one of his few allies at ducati and how warmly casey spoke of suppo in his autobiography, it is pretty noteworthy that suppo apparently believes they don't have a relationship anymore because of this controversy. here's another quote from 2020 from an interview suppo gave (x):

"He called us on Sunday evening, already after the Qatar race, taking us by surprise. Nakamoto has always had a special affection for Casey, but he absolutely did not want him to come back and risk making a bad impression. And he said no. Stoner did not take it well, he got very angry with me, convinced that I had made the decision. Our relationship ended, and since then he has never spoken to me again. With Casey everything changes radically, sometimes without even understanding why. It would have been nice to see him come back, but if it had not gone well, criticism and tension would have exploded, distracting Márquez who was fighting to win his third consecutive World Championship. I continue to think that ours was the right decision..."

like it's fascinating it's something casey felt that strongly about. the controversy is one thing but the reasons behind it remain kinda mysterious and something I'm still curious about. why did casey have his one major wobble about his retirement in early 2015, at least to the extent that it's the one time he really did seem to miss racing? was that whole episode a bitter reminder of why he left in the first place? I think part of it is.... the sport spent two years talking plenty about how much casey was missed, whether casey would stay retired, whether casey would race again, about how much honda loved casey and were sad to see him retire, etc etc... and then your test rider and former full time rider who won you your first title in half a decade asks if he can act as a stand-in, and you can't bring yourself to throw him a bone? it's such an odd decision!! and the justification is so weak, like what kind of criticism and tension would have 'exploded' if casey had been a bit mid at cota. casey doesn't even have shooters like that, certainly not back then. do you really think a p12 at cota would have permanently damaged casey's reputation... (which, look, what do I know,, but given track characteristics suiting honda + larger field spread back in those days + casey factor I think would've been Unlikely.) let us all be serious here

that being said. as much as you can probably tell I'm not a massive fan of how honda handled that whole situation, of course there is some truth to the "with casey everything changes radically, sometimes without even understanding why" assertion. he's pretty easy to make an enemy of. in a similar vein: "if you know casey and talk to him, he'll say 'believe me' at least twice in ten minutes. he always knows everything" which is also kinda... a lot. again, it's not necessarily

I’m not sure if you’ve answered this before but if not could you explain the Casey / Marc Honda beef 😭 I didn’t even know that existed & then I was listening to a podcast the other day that said in 2015 Marc blocked Casey from a wildcard ride to replace Dani for one race when he was out injured??? Like omg!!! And they said Casey even tweeted confirming it (lmao ofc he did) like damn!! Marc comments on his instas sometimes so I thought they were always buds, this surprised me!

well, 'buds' I think would be pushing it. but yeah, not only is this something I've answered before, it's actually the 2nd/3rd asks I got about motogp on here! see here for the 2015 beef and a follow up to that post. I only recently remembered the tweet myself lol... he really was Not happy

this is so passive aggressive I'm crying. really mastered the art of using the :)

to be clear, we don't actually KNOW marc blocked casey. we know that casey BELIEVES marc blocked him, but that is not the same as confirmation that it happened. for context, here is what suppo said at the time:

after 2015, casey left honda - and claimed both that Someone hadn't wanted him to race AND ALSO that marc's camp had pushed him out as a test rider because they'd felt threatened by him. casey has form in accusing his rivals of wrongdoing by Heavily Implying something rather than outright stating it, cf him in his autobiography suggesting Someone inside yamaha hadn't wanted him there,, who knows who that could have been :) *wink wink nudge nudge*

by that point in time, his rhetoric about marc was... idk, warm-ish? without being particularly glowing either. included in one of the above posts, but see this from 2013:

as the local casey translator: from him that's a pretty weighty accusation and the kind of thing he does not look kindly on At All. also appreciated this little two-in-one from 2015, like sure get both of them from me --

-- but yeah. given that he's Retired, casey isn't actually going to start a war over the honda thing - and in a way it's already remarkable and extremely casey that he went as far as he did. him and marc have a fairly respectful and cordial relationship because they weren't ever rivals. casey has no reason to not be polite about and to marc, even if he has his reservations. and a grudge

and again, fwiw we don't KNOW to what extent marc was involved in chasing casey out, if at all. I mean, maybe? we know from marc's own testimony that he is a nightmare of a teammate, we know he's no stranger to honda internal power struggles... but then again, why bother? at most casey could have mildly embarrassed marc (and given that it was cota, even that is.... unlikely). given that casey was simply never going to return to motogp full time, why would you feel threatened by him? there is a lot of he said she said surrounding this entire situation... again nabbing this from the original post, but this kind of thing --

-- you just have blatantly contradictory information, because CASEY was saying that he was on dani's sepang pace in his early 2015 test. I mean, vibes-wise I suppose I'm not sure I'm convinced that casey was so off the pace in 2015 that he was useless as a test rider and unfeasible as a wild card rider. vibes-wise I also don't think that sounds like the kind of thing casey himself would be completely deluded about? he wouldn't want to compete if he was slow... suppo saying that casey has never raced at cota anymore is?? it's casey, it's not like it really matters that he's unfamiliar with the track - and suppo of all people should surely know as much. as for hrc saying that he was a second off the pace at sepang early in 2015... idk man. if that's true, I just don't quite buy that casey would have wanted to race in the first place

and we do actually have a piece of evidence that at the very least sits uneasily with the assertion of everyone at honda that casey was Simply Too Slow in 2015. upon leaving honda casey became a test rider at ducati - and in his expanded role actually immediately took part in like,, a proper test where he shared the track with other riders in early 2016. and where else could this happy on-track reunion have taken place - other than at sepang

now, look. I don't know either way. I'm just presenting the evidence here and you can make up your own mind. it is possible that casey - the man who was renowned for being fast the second he touches any bike, still only 29-30 years old, not suffering from any acute physical issues at the time - was too slow to be competitive in 2015 on the honda he had helped to develop and had been riding since 2011. (worth pointing out that test riders also do not need to literally be on the pace of the full time riders to be useful in testing.) it is also possible that casey then went to ducati and was immediately quicker than his fellow ducati riders, a well-respected set of riders in their own right, on a bike he had not ridden since 2010... despite having been useless on the honda. it is possible. you can decide for yourself if this is likely. who knows. and if you decide that it isn't likely - regardless of what happened within honda during 2015, it does feel pretty poor form that various honda officials were so keen to whisper to the press about how slow casey was. but hey! who knows!

though for the sake of fairness, obviously there is also a certain amount of opportunistic 'jumping on honda's grave' to casey saying stuff like this in the year of our lord 2024:

very much playing into the narrative that marc led honda down the wrong path, aka that marc is responsible for their current malaise. casey's not QUITE saying that, but it's the obvious implication - and he KNOWS that. he knows what he's doing here!! and it's been like,, eight years, he's clearly not exactly Over It, is he. you cannot convince me that casey has not felt at least a little bit of schadenfreude about honda's current plight. come on

in conclusion. who knows what really happened back in 2015... wish I did. look, casey has a tendency towards paranoia. he's a suspicious bloke, he often sees the worst in others... and he's also extremely petty and slow to forgive. this entire thing manages to play into some of his most persistent neuroses - about not being valued, about others playing politics behind his back, about being excluded from another club through no fault of his own. about not being shown the loyalty he felt he was owed. no wonder he took it poorly, no wonder he's still at least a little sore about it in 2024. it shouldn't escape your notice that he made quite a few of these accusations about marc in early 2016, when marc already had rather a lot on his plate. but casey doesn't care! if anything, he'll have been fully aware that the media at the time would be pretty open to a nice little side swipe at marc marquez - it's a receptive environment to casey's narrative. casey's hardly shy about taking advantage of that kind of thing

then again, while I do believe casey could have just cooked this whole thing up in his head with minimal evidence, I simultaneously buy that marc did actually block casey. marc's camp certainly did do a lot to assert itself within honda during that time (famously power-hungry drama-happy manager in the shape of alzamora, lest we forget). so, y'know. maybe this was another way of asserting internal supremacy - and maybe marc really didn't want casey interfering in developmental work. the boring answer is that the truth might lie somewhere in the middle, that marc's camp did try to make life unpleasant for casey within honda without like,, actively forcing him out or vetoing the wild card. it's certainly a very in-character episode for everyone involved. very much the ships that passed in the night of feuding... of course casey would have despised marc if they'd ever been actual teammates, but they both just about managed to avoid that particular bloodbath