#i'm really excited to see where ava goes and how she grows and her arc!! i'm invested in her!!

[dumplingcatho]

holy shit it really does get better in ep 3 OKAY AVA

[punkscowardschampions]

Gen 4.1 Planning

Libi: Okay, so my basic premise for who Libi is going to be at her core, WOO; I was thinking about how we said that she is Tess' second (lowkey third but I'll let you live gal) chance at 'getting it right' and raising a child well, which, OBVIOUSLY, she's never told or anything but there's an innate pressure in that that you'd know on some level, likewise her mum AND dad died so everyone would be quick with those comparisons always, this family and Liam's mum when that contact is made because her daughter died as well as; Then that made me think of the pressure Ro felt because you know, bad shit happened to Bea (Edie and Liam in this case) and then she got saved by McVickers and felt like she owed everyone to be great and do great things; so my vibe is that BUT COMING FROM A LESS SELFISH, WEIRD, PERFECTIONISM ANGLE soz not soz Ro, we know what you did; I see her being better behaved as she grows up, far more than her parents obviously but lowkey better behaved than any of the mcvickers or cali kids ever were because she thinks everyone deserves that, her not causing any more problems, but again UNLIKE Ro, she wouldn't be different to a degree of not fitting in because she'd make a massive effort to be there for everyone and every event, be likeable and get along with as much of the fam as possible, obviously some of that is natural charm but it's also putting in the time ahem Rosaline; like, she's a people pleaser, to a fault, and all she cares about is making everyone else, Tess, Fearghal, Ali, JJ etc etc, happy and making sure she's being what she thinks they want her to be/need her to be, and like that is what makes her happy because she is doing it out of love and respect not obligation but she doesn't know she's doing it, you know? Again, it's innate, how she is, but that's where the arc can come in, in realising that she goes with what makes everyone else happy, is who they need, but what does SHE want herself, and what does SHE need? A way I thought we could make this a Bobby/Libi storyline if we wanted (but we do not have to) is if she does have feelings for him, could be any point on his timeline gfs and kids wise whatever, but she lets him go and have whatever gf or do whatever thing because she's like that's what he wants he doesn't like me or want me like that etc, because she doesn't let herself want things selfishly or do anything just for herself Bobby: we should totally have them be together as little bubs because they are and it's like a running joke that they are gonna get together/get married like we've lowkey already said but more so but maybe the vibe is he is really shy how he is and lowkey it's like a my sister and me vibe where she does all the talking and socialising for him and like all their friends are joint friends Bobby: not in a creepy Ro and Ali way but Bobby: and we will let you outgrow that sir Libi: it makes sense because obviously we're learning sign language so simply Bobby can't communicate with most kids by himself, that's facts, and it's easier to have another kid help you than Jimmy always being there, or whoever he has helping him at school, you know Bobby: oh snap maybe I flip reverse what I said and Cammie's mum is the deaf one too and the vibe could be that like Libi pushes him to get some deaf friends as they become like tweens/teens so he can communicate himself so he does and does become more outgrowing that way but maybe he lowkey leans too hard into deaf culture for a while there and she feels like pushed out by it because it's something she can't be a part of Libi: ooh yeah, that makes a lot of sense Bobby: it adds something to Cammie's character as well being hearing but having two deaf parents so that's interesting Bobby: and also makes sense why JJ have to help them so much as well as them just being young Libi: right, there's a lot of shit Cammie would have to do from a young age if not for JJ lowkey 'cos it's just easier for a hearing kid than it is a deaf adult in this world Libi: her mum could maybe be more partial for ease but yes Bobby: and like it makes sense that Libi would push her feelings aside when those two grow closer/happen because she'd be like well they're both deaf that's something I can't give him and something I want him to have Libi: exactly, it'd feel really selfish to wreck that even if you didn't have all the ingrained shit she does around it Bobby: and obviously he actually wants to be with her as well but thinks she doesn't want that and before you now it there's baby Cammie so it's like well now I gotta try and make this work because don't wanna be a shit father like I had Libi: oh the drama of it all Libi: love it Libi: and we've not really got (that I can think of) a never mind I'll find someone like you type deal Libi: because usually it's like JUST SAY IT but it actually makes sense here to pine and long but let him go Libi: hence I'm here for it Libi: So, what I'm thinking right now is, that they're like never officially together, like it just keeps being an in-joke kinda vibe and like we're JUST best friends and then kind of like family, but obviously as they get into tween/teen years it's beyond a stage you can pretend you're just a kid playing at being girlfriend and boyfriend and as you said boo, that will coincide with JJ wedding and kids roughly so then it'd be more obvious like it's not going to happen seriously, then she can encourage him to get deaf friends etc, but I feel like he should only meet Cammie's mum just before or at uni (or whatever equivalent he's doing after school) so then it is quick and not like they were even mates before so it's less of a shock for all, you know? Bobby: I totally agree because I strongly pictured him being best man at the JJ wedding (soz Pete) and her being one of the bridesmaids and all the bants that go along with that and them both being SO 😳 Bobby: and yeah he could live the cliché that Jac was mocking and literally get with this girl freshers week I'd believe it Libi: Right? it then mirrors the Jameson/Cammie thing except they literally are just BFFs and there isn't anything going on Libi: there's actually weight to this but we're just like haha no don't be silly Bobby: and we've literally not done that trope with childhood boy girl best friends before really because baze are probably the closest but they were always so clearly in love and refusing to fight it so it's fun Libi: exactly, because unknowingly or otherwise, we're fighting against all the cliches and tropes that come with this family Libi: like I'm going to not do any of those things that caused drama for everyone and this is clearly too close to home, even though I don't think anyone would actually be that bothered, we've just really internalized and gone with it Bobby: like how nobody cares Jac is gay except Jac herself Libi: right Libi: but obviously she's good at keeping this all internal because no one can or is gonna clock it and be like, babe, it's okay Libi: like JJ might be a bit like oop, keeping it in the family but as long as you're both happy they really don't care, and same for mcvickers even if Tess is suspish of everyone that comes into any gal's life 'cos trauma lol Bobby: Bobby wasn't trying to make deaf culture happen for himself but Libi would have been so excited for him to get out there and do it that he would've been excited too and then it is literally like a new world opening up because who has he ever interacted with that's deaf before Bobby: didn't mean to lowkey leave you behind gal but Libi: it's kinda her own fault, not to blame you but clearly literally what we do like okay he's happy now mission accomplished Bobby: and maybe Cammie's mum is like the deaf equivalent of those gays who make it their whole identity so she's really selling it and so he also thinks okay this is who I should be with Libi: we know the vibe, like it's more excusable but still, I get you Libi: I see it Libi: a bit of a baby gay equivalent like go too hard and you're like I need to calm this down Libi: UNRELATED BUT Libi: think it will please you Libi: Jay is born 32 like Bobby, I'm pretty sure, and I thought Libi and her would also make for interesting content because Jay obviously feels she owes a lot to the fam for not being stuck with Chloe etc etc and the very little we did with her gave off a similar energy to me Libi: and she has her commitment issues in relationships because of her mum situation so they can bond over the shit that holds 'em back even though it's different stuff Bobby: and her relationship with Ava being her mum but also not being is something I feel like Libi can relate to because of how she was raised and the Rio and Buster-ness of it all because they wanted to raise her and obvs they wanted to raise Jay for a while there too Bobby: plus all the travelling she does is something that Libi could potentially join her in doing if she needs an escape so that's nice Libi: 100% it makes for a strong friendship there's a lot of parallels if not total similarities Libi: it makes a lot of sense, it's coming together baby Bobby: if you need to get away from seeing Bobby literally playing happy families, I can offer you that gal because I'm gonna have her go to uni/live in new york probably now that Nancy isn't because her face actually did live there idk if they still do or what but Bobby: we know the vibe is that she goes everywhere and can't settle so you'll have lots of chances to run away in a way that won't upset anyone Bobby: and when she gets her man and it works out we could totally coincide that because she can be like if I can do it so can you Libi: a mood a moment Bobby: all I know is Bobby is gonna be more chatty because neither Jimothy or Jesse are so I must but not to Jude levels of !!! Libi: a nice middleground Libi: which is kind of what I see for her honestly Libi: less in your face than 1. we were as a little bub 2. a lot of the fam but still sociable enough that it jives well with most of 'em Bobby: I'm so happy about all of this and honestly Cammie's mum being deaf makes so much sense in terms of what we were already thinking about her being more distant and working a lot Libi: if she doesn't give up the fight, she could be some kind of advocate vibe Libi: 'cos then Cammie can't even call her out really Libi: like soz this is important, maam your child Bobby: exactly what I was thinking we're in sync rn boo Libi: because it all makes sense, you gotta follow one thread and then the story shows itself tbh Libi: because tying in Astrid too, obviously that makes sense because she loses her mum too, and she'd ultimately be a really good influence because after Ro dies Astrid is kind of freed to do whatever she wants for herself Libi: and how much happier it makes her, how much she improves...well Libi: sips tea Bobby: I LOVE THIS Libi: and who else is taking the autistic girl that seriously and letting her teach you things Libi: love that for you Libi: she's living her best life and we can see that Bobby: she can be in their friend group, I'm happy Libi: ALSO, I feel as if she couldn't lie to Astrid Libi: because she says how she sees it bluntly and we're not going to feel comfortable fobbing her off because of that insistence, so that'll be good for you even when we're hiding it from everyone else Libi: everyone else you've just got to be vaguely like oh no no and it's dropped and like okay Bobby: we're gonna get to show so many different sides of Libi, I'm always here for that Bobby: and however far we go down the Astrid and her gf eating disorder rabbit hole, we''ll have Libi not treating her like a kid which is great Libi: yeah, there's loads we can do with the end of gen 4 for them all it's a mood Bobby: okay so what or who would you like to throw Libi at first Libi: that is the question Bobby: just so we know Bobby is going to Trinity and studying Business, Economics and Social Studies (B.E.S.S.) which is business, economics, political science and sociology basically so he can end up working at that advertising place with Jimothy after he has done this 4 years Bobby: Cammie's mum is there doing deaf studies which is also 4 years Libi: do we wanna do a rough timeline for these people mentioned here Libi: Jay born 32, we find out about her when she's 7 in 39 Libi: Bobby is born 32 and comes into the story 38 Libi: Libi is born 34, Edam die 35, we know this situation, is 4 soon to be 5 when she meets Bobby vias JJ Libi: Astrid is born 35 and Ro dies in 44 when Astrid is 9 Libi: JJ can get married 46, so Libi is 12 and Bobby is 14 Libi: doesn't have to be when we intro the deaf friends to the point of exclusion obvs but it's timed so we never have the 'real' relationship chat of it all obvs Libi: so Bobby would go to uni in 50-51 and Camie is born 51 start of 2nd year Libi: that gives us this good 4 year period before uni to play with, then obviously we know the vibe of when she's born and making that work etc Libi: Hmm, I think it would make the most sense to do a gap year then stay local, like that's the ideal Libi: because I really think she'd struggle being away from the fam Libi: but I'm kinda thinking maybe to be cruel she DOES go away because it seems like something the fam are like yay about Libi: 'cos she'd try really, really hard to stay but they should at least notice that and she can transfer for a reprieve Bobby: that's really nice actually Libi: she should do her first year in Liverpool, the rest at Trinity Libi: okay, so film studies, it was only 3 years in Liverpool but we're changing to trinity and you do years 1 and 2 (aka whilst Bobby is still there at least for year 1 but I need to check anyway) there and years 3 and 4 at Columbia uni in new york, aka where Jay is Libi: **remind me to check the times but we need to give him a solid bday and I'm changing hers up too Libi: this is just roughly Libi: but this way we can be cruel with it lol