#i'm procrastinating bc i have a dissertation meeting tomorrow and i don't want to do the readings

[osmiabee]

I’m definitely not a radfem or a TERF, but Butch and Femme are specific presentations and relationship roles that form part of lesbian culture and reducing them to an aesthetic doesn’t do their history justice. I know that there are “doe” and “stag” meaning the same as femme/butch for bi people. Sometimes “masc” is used in relation to gender presentation in the same way “fem” can be used but obviously masculinity is sensitive for wlw in a different way than femininity and it might be confused with the gay term. Still hopefully that’s something! But tbh nobody is going to get super angry or hurt irl. Jury’s still out on whether butch/femme have different meanings as adjectives vs. nouns but it would be preferable to use something else to prevent confusion.

B/F referred to a presentation specifically meaning “performing femininity exclusively to attract women” and “rejecting femininity exclusively to attract women”. Femme in the original text was written in french in the context “plus femme que moi” so meant “woman” rather than femme in the sense that it’s used in English. It was also used as an adjective not a noun/identity.

Its true that labeling was more flexible and some historical ‘femmes’ were actually bi. However it still referred to the a role in a culture requiring the active rejection of men. In the modern day, bi-women persuing genuinely fulfilling relationships with men should avoid using the terms because it refers to a relationship dynamic and gender presentation that they don’t experience. There is room for nuance, but many lesbians don’t fit into butch or femme, so existing outside of them is also totally fine.

I’d also make a point that “lesbian” referred to the whole culture surrounding being a lesbian, and that “lesbian” has a meaning and shouldn’t be used by anyone that’s attracted to men. It should be obvious that many straight couples and gay men can engage in that “specific kind of sex”. Two self-defining trans guys in a relationship are not lesbians, theyre gay men. Two self-defining trans lesbians are lesbians regardless of the “kind of sex” they’re having. To reduce lesbianism to a sexual act excludes and erases the identity of trans people.

I get that sex was a part of the defining culture both in butch/femme and Lesbian but by reducing them to a sexual act you also erasing the more important part of the culture; relationships, friendships and family. It sexualises lesbians and it can definitely be used as a shitty trans exculsionary argument.

Lesbian means a self defined as woman or someone that’s aligned with womanhood (NB probably forced there by mysogyny) and exclusively attracted to people with a gender the same as or similar to their own. There is a long history of NB butches and femmes and lesbians. For probably the hundreth time because I’m bad at condensing texts: Please don’t reduce “Lesbian” to a “type of sexual act”.

is there an equivalent term to “butch” that is appropriate for non-lesbian wlw to use? (Other than the abbreviation of gnc, I mean like a word) I hadn’t realized it was a lesbian specific term and I want to be respectful to my lesbian friends.