#i'm going going to go into detail bc it's awful but basically something really terrible happened to wes and in another version of events in

[gothamstreetcat]

Putting under the cut what ended up being such a long sad/angry rant about Wesley and how he was treated on the show. I just want to say how I feel. A lot of this is personal and I apologize.

I’ve been thinking a lot over the past few days about how it really boils my blood that I feel there was so much pressure for Wesley to be in love with Fred. If he was not "in love" (I really don't even want to say that) with her he had to be a creep and if not that he had to be obsessed (based off of how the show was really portraying him at points). It’s almost as if he had no value unless he was in love with her or his entire being didn’t revolve around her. Like, if he wasn’t the bumbling fool for everyone to make fun off he just had to be so obsessed to the points it made him look bad. Almost as though the writers took his little "crush" from one fucking episode and decided to run a train without the tracks.

It's such a shame because this idea of Wesley being infatuated with Fred came across as though it had to be his whole personality as though Wesley himself couldn't be loved for anything else (like being smart or funny). And the entirety surrounding Fred was also used as a foil for his relationship with Lilah, which in my opinion is so stupid, because this crush with Fred was -again- so fleeting and ended so badly, yet at the same time it consumes Wesley's being.

And I know I’ve said this in the past, but Wesley during Billy was not him; and I really believe it has everything to do with his father and how he was raised and someone he was scared to become. Wesley does not come off to me as the kind of person to feel that was towards women or have monstrous/evil thoughts. Even for "dark" Wesley that's really pushing it. He's just the kind of guy "that makes the tough decisions even if he's making them alone." Not only that but Wesley constantly has moments where you know he's been abused, and for me, I see that as he's not going to be an abuser because he's already the abused, even as an adult. Even when his not-dad showed up he fell back into his old self and was suddenly never good enough. So, going back Billy it just seems hard for me to imagine Wesley ever trying again after the traumatic events that ensued for him - that also had him struggling with himself as a person. Having him be so infatuated with Fred after this - to me - is just so disrespectful to his character, especially if only to hurt him in the end and further isolate him. Wesley is not a perfect person, I know that but some of the shit he went though on the show just seemed over the top.

I don't actually know or personally understand why people even want Wesley and Fred to be together but let me say how I've been feeling that Fred is just a more loved version of Wesley - another thing that really makes me upset/uncomfortable. They were both smart but somehow Fred was smarter (during that episode when those demons came and wanted her brain instead of Wesley's) yet, at the same time everyone needed Wesley's help when he wasn't part of the team anymore. Which, of course there are different ways to smart and should be recognized but at the same time Fred was just seen as so cute and quirky for everything she did while other times Wesley was not appreciated. Anytime Fred became upset or triggered over what happened to her she was comforted and emphasized with. When she was rescued from Pylea she was given space and everyone worked with her and tried to help her. Anytime Wesley talked about his dad he was looked at as strange or talked to in such a casual manor (because the characters were so bluntly blind to his abuse (i.e when he killed his not-dad in season five). Even when he was clearly feeling a certain way after the events in “Lineage” Angel and Spike treated it as if it was no big deal and I get the assumption that when Wesley killed his not-dad it was more about protecting Fred rather then freeing himself (which is what it should have fucking been about. This man literally stood in front of him and said “don’t make me shoot you,” and I wonder how many threats were made on Wesley’s life for him to not be stunned by that.)

I will however say that when Wesley got shot he was well loved and cared for. This was, of course pre-Fred and pre-Conner but was looked after during this time (by this two best friends I might add who ended up fucking losing completely to the mess that is season 3).

Another thing I've gathered from the grapevine is that it appears losing Fred was somehow a breaking point for Wesley (but also everyone else too) and I would really like to fucking understand why. Fred is beloved, I get that but at the same time they also lost Cordelia who was very loved and had some so far as a person - and as for Wesley that man has been through some fucking shit, but why is losing Winifred some make or break for him?? Wesley literally lost his entire family because of what happened, he had his throat cut and was literally fucking dying as some homeless man dragged him into the bushes before stealing his money. He was so cut off from everyone and pretty much had the metaphorical door slammed in his face - unless of course he was needed - and I know I talk about the park scene a lot, and I know fans get mad over what Wesley did they're entitled to feel that way, of course, but at the same time - no one is going to be more mad at Wesley then the self-loathing man himself. He knows he screewed up.

On top of that, Angel, everyone's literal champion, went to the hospital and tried to fucking kill him. And a lot of people point out how Wesley never apologized for what he did, but when Angel apologized for what he did it was literally only because he needed something. And everyone was so wrapped around Angel's dick and what he wanted so nothing could be mended, mind you, this was also the man that signed them off to work for the literal Devil without their consent. Now, I get he was doing it for his son and that's admirable- he's just a tired dad trying to do his very best - but you literally didn't have to drag everyone else with you (especially since the only reason Wesley was there in the first place was to give Lilah peace he believed she deserved for her suffering. Show me a greater act of true love and I'll shut the fuck up.)

Wesley lost his best friend to the higher powers (his friendship with Gunn was so long gone at this point) and the love of his life (because the only time Wesley wasn't so wrapped up in Fred was when he was grieving Lilah) but somehow Fred had to be the be all end all. Even in his death he couldn't escape it and it still had to be about Fred and being lied to and being with her. I see a lot of fans talk about how he was in love with the idea of Fred and being a hero and getting the girl and finally being loved but in reality all those things Wesley thinks heroes get in the end are a fantasy. He's not going to be loved, Angel is not going to get over Conner and his dad is never going to love and respect him as a human being. In fact, I feel like the only thing Wesley had to resemble being a hero was the fact that he died in the end. I mean, of course he was a good person and did his best and he did help people and save them - but at the same time he went through so much shit just to die in the very end and he couldn't even have that to himself.

The Writers liked to put on this face of Wesley being happy when he sees Fred doing her little speech, and it could have easily been about missing his friends and missing people he was close to but we know that's not the case. Not only that, but Wesley went through something so traumatic and you can't always some back from that. He was literally so changed from what happened to him and he was never the same (he literally reminds me of Bruce Wayne in so many ways with the trauma and the turtlenecks and the stone facial expressions; they literally are the same person only Bruce hates guns). Even when he came back into the group or went to work for W&H and everything was erased. Yet somehow Fred just has to be what keeps him connected to something more human... and I really can't understand why when The Writers (I mean, obviously to hurt Wesley because they don't value him) would even want Wesley to be with someone who is so nasty to him.

Fred was understanding when her and Gunn were ransacking Wesley's apartment (which they didn't even clean up by the way) yet, to his face she told him never to come back and also didn't even look at him when she talked about the prophecy being false and everything being a waste of time. Telling Wesley how wrong he was but literally everyone makes mistakes (Angel literally said Conner had been smelling like food and fucking told no one until he had a meltdown). Wesley during that time was just mentally going through it and he didn't think he could tell anyone and did everything he thought he could do - and then for Fred to be upset with him for fucking being with Lilah when he was literally so alone and she was the only one to give him a crumb of human decency. She really only bothered him about the job once and every time they talked you could tell how much they really bounced off one another.

Fred was also the only one who was so mean to him after Lilah's death when he was being vulnerable and trying to open up to her. Now again, this is partly The Writers who think it's okay to compare Wesley's consensual relationship with Lilah to Not-Cordelia sleeping with Conner (which was basically Conner being raped by his unborn woman child using his mother's body), which is disgusting, but also for Fred to fucking roll her eyes and try to gaslight Wesley and his emotions when he's being vulnerable. Again, something I bitch about a lot but it's only because I know what it's like to be that person being vulnerable to their friends, only to have said friends literally roll their eyes and dismiss my feelings - it's disgusting. Wesley had literally just lost Lilah and had no one to talk to about it but he tried *twice* with two people who used to be his closest friends. But I guess that is just more of a way to affirm how Lilah is for Wesley (despite the fact that she is literally perfect for him but I don't know if I want to get into that now).

I feel like Angel never got over Conner (it being mentioned in season five) and that is what it is - I get it, but at the same time I'm also so bothered by the fact that Wesley is always going to have this big terrible thing hung over him. Gunn also made a huge mistake but that was what is was, a mistake and okay because "Gunn is a good person" (and I'm okay with that, I'm in no way trying to shit on Gunn but I am aware there was controversy surround this back when the show was on). However, I have an issue with Wesley having to be so punished for his mistake when others are empathized with. And I know what happened with Holtz was about Angelus and that Angel has a soul and he is good - but this is also the vampire with a soul who tried to fucking suffocate Wesley to death. It doesn't feel fair to entirely blame Angel for Angelus's actions against Holtz's family's, However, that's still a huge part of his past, and not everyone is going to have empathy and compassion for you just because you have a soul. I'm not trying to say that as a way to excuse Wesley's mistake but I feel that so much is always put on Wesley and him alone.

I'm sorry this post is so long and messy. I was going to spend a little bit of time talking about his relationship with Lilah, however, I want this to be more about Wesley as an individual - so I'll shut up here and save that conversation for the tags.

This was four pages long in google docs, why can't I write my fanfiction like that?

[etoilesombre]

👀 + 🧠

For the fanfic ask game:

👀 Do you have any WIPs that you would never let see the light of day? If yes, what are they about? : Nah, I would post basically any heinous shit I would write, especially in this fandom. Know no shame etc.

🧠 What’s an idea you have that you can’t quite call a WIP yet? Oh dear. Oh, my lovely mutual who asked this question, I do not know you well enough to know if it is fair to subject you to this, but I'M GONNA ANYWAY. Awful grimdark Flint/Rogers. HEAR ME OUT. (but under the cut, bc while I may not have shame I have decency. It's pretty thoroughly spun out, you have been warned.)

So I think Rogers knew about Flint and Thomas Hamilton. He knew what he was doing when he said it that way. He's exactly the sort of petty gossipy London society person who would have heard rumors, if there were rumors to hear, when he was looking into going to Nassau. I can imagine a world in which he gets obsessed with Flint. Because Rogers is consciously trying to project himself as what Flint just effortlessly is, and is VERY tied up with appearances and probably buys into a bunch of toxic masculinity stuff, and probably had some idea of what Flint would be, and then Flint showed up and was -gestures-. And Rogers can't stop Thinking about it, can't reconcile what he knows with who Flint is, can't stop picturing shit.

Flint of course would not give one half of one fuck about Rogers, fucking awful boring pretentious piece of shit. But, he knows Rogers knows, and that's interesting just because there are so few people left in the world who do. So he has like, filed it away for future knowledge, whatever.

BUT. AU diverging from canon when they think Silver is dead. Flint goes on some sort of stupid negotiation/mission/whatever because he's back in sad broken self-destructive burn the world mode. He gets captured and imprisoned by Rogers. Who, again, is Fascinated, and can't resist coming to see him and talking to him. Flint is in a horrible fucked up burn the world headspace because he thinks he's lost Silver too.

So fic would be basically an escalating series of conversations/encounters, because Flint immediately realizes Rogers is Fascinated and uses it, and they play awful escalating psychosexual power games with each other. Flint is very, *very* scary mean dom in this, has big Chained Feral Beast energy. And Rogers sure does keep coming back for it every day. This is very much one of those scenarios of things getting weird in isolation, and the dynamics within the space slowly shift until, while Flint is nominally prisoner, Rogers has given all of his power away and been completely broken and also addicted to it.

I think it would end/culminate with Rogers finally unchaining Flint and letting Flint fuck him, and it's awful brutal terrible and Flint makes him basically admit to a bunch of horrible shit about himself and what he wants. And then Flint snaps his neck and walks out.

Now Woodes Rogers has all of the sex appeal of a soggy day old sandwich, and I spin all of this out here for the world to see because I am probably never going to sit down and prioritize writing something that is going to make me think of him that way in detail. But I COULD MAKE IT WORK and its been stuck in my head for months. And I really just want to write Flint being as terrible as possible, just one time.

[igarbagecannoteven]

19 !!! 37 !!!! 14 !!!!

!!!!! hi jess!!! thanks for stopping by with questions *and* exclamation marks how fun!!!

19. first line of a wip you're working on? ohhoho okay technically legally i'm not working on this bc i told myself i wouldn't until i've finished some other things but also the first page of this fic dropped into my head the other day so here ya go:

Ashton had known he was going to die for love since he was seven years old.

37. most inspirational quote you’ve ever read or heard that’s still important to you? so i have never read the book this selection is from, but my mom has and she passed it along to me when i was in high school and it shaped the way i write rather dramatically and that is anne lamott on shitty first drafts. now, admittedly, the end of her first paragraph has been thoroughly debunked for me since i started getting involved in the 5sos fanfic world since apparently several of the writers here write brilliant first drafts and i don't hate them so. it was, i will admit, a revelation that dealt a healthy blow to both my ego and my confidence but! i have (mostly) moved on. but basically the thing about this passage that helped me the most is that most writers, out there in the original fiction world (and still i would guess the majority of the fic world) write really terrible first drafts, just truly awful ones! but that's okay bc you (general you of everyone except those who don't do multiple drafts) pick yourself up and use that shitty first draft to write a better second draft and you keep going until you've got a piece of work you can stand behind and be proud of. and the shittiness of your first draft or the amount of drafts it takes for you to get to the final one is not a mark of how good or bad a writer you are, the only thing that shows that is the final draft and how you refused to let yourself get knocked down, refused to settle for less than whatever you reached in the final version. the selection says a bunch of other good things so here's a free pdf of it i found on google.

14. what’s the most research you ever put into a book? okay so full disclosure i absolutely hate research and will do almost everything i can to avoid doing it (if you're ever wondering why something is vague in a fic it's bc i cba to look into what it'd actually be in detail lol) i did do a fair amount of research for if i bleed you'll be the last to know for the whole stitching up (i also got into an in-depth conversation with my brother about the way a bullet wound works and what sort of gun would produce the kind of injury i wanted) so maybe that? i have done a lot of research cumulatively for tis the damn fic and i do anticipate doing a lot more once i reach certain plot points so at the end of it all that may be the one i research the most for but also i may just lean heavily on being vague about certain things lol

send me writer’s asks!

[that-thing-that-feeling]

Not the previous anon, but I'd love to hear about a more detailed timeline of what happens throughout the film and what happens to the characters with spoilers since we have no idea when or if it will be released and I'm impatient lol. You could stick it behind a separate link for people who don't want to be spoiled.

Okay lol I tried for something like a plot summary but it felt weird to try to write; sorry it’s such a bad job! The film is really the performances and the layers those bring out, but here it goes below the cut. Spoilers ahead, obviously, so just don’t read if avoiding:

It opens with will at a recovery meeting, we find out things are going well in his life, he has a good job, house, girlfriend he really cares about (and is thinking of moving in w tho is still afraid to open up to her fully). He’s very sweet — the line in a review that they’re good people who make horrible decisions feels right. Then he goes home and his former best friend is there who isn’t clean and it’s clear the whole interaction disturbs will and he is very reluctant to engage with him. The friend Chris then goes home locks himself in his room while his mom Claire is in the other room and overdoses—but it seems much more purposeful. It’s that he k*lls himself. She bangs on the door of the room realizing something is wrong. It’s awful. Will goes back to the funeral. His recovery feels itself very fragile. He’s sweet but also a tortured soul. The relationship with Becca is very sweet tho, but he can’t also rely on someone else to keep him together (unfair to her) and he also isn’t comfortable opening up to her yet. The affair with Claire starts after she calls him to give him something she thinks Chris would want them to have. She gets drunk in that dinner clip you see from deadline so he drives her home and she’s not okay and asks him to stay till she falls asleep and they kiss but he leaves. He knows it’s not right. He goes back another night though. The movie never plays this as anything other then a disastrous choice for both, and a total mess of guilt and loss and messed up Oedipal thing going on: he had helped take care of his mother while she was dying from cancer, she was taking care of her son as he was dying from addiction. Both have shared grief and guilt over Chris. He doesn’t tell her Chris came to see him that night; it’s almost as if he’s trying to make it up to her by being there for her in anyway and he’s also using it as a coping mechanism for his guilt too. But he’s also guilty about doing it bc of Becca and tries to stop it as it’s clear it’s a terrible coping mechanism for them that is only causing more harm. Chris’s death hangs over everything as the ultimate guilt. As Will’s father points out to Claire, Chris never would have gotten hooked on drugs in the first place if not for Will (Will’s father blames him for everything). Will at some point due to all the accruing layers of guilt goes out and buys heroin but calls Becca instead of using. Just as he’s beginning to let her in and they’re planning on moving in and they seem happy and all the stuff w Claire has ended (only she doesn’t know he cheated so). Meanwhile, Claire finds out from Will’s father that Chris saw Will that night and she goes over to Will’s house w Becca there and basically blows up his life. It’s a really intense scene in which she blames him for everything but in this specific way you’d need to see. Becca realizes he cheated on her, ending that relationship. Will later tries to apologize to Claire for not telling her about seeing Chris that night and she’s basically telling him Chris should have had the pretty gf and nice house and job (ie not you). So what happens to will? Curious to hear exactly what people think happened— there’s some ambiguity at the end and yet also not. The last scene and shot is the most devastating thing I’ve seen Charlie perform, it’s like stunningly acted. Otherwise just more of my opinion, It’s  purposefully slow moving and character driven, shot beautifully, the script is too on the nose, a few too many shots of will in a car contemplating things tm lol. It’s vey very very sad but beautiful performances carry it and I think fans of Charlie will feel proud and just want to see him act more bc he can be damn good.