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wheeler-things · 2 years ago

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Henry Creel, Vampires, the Consumption of the Soul, and Will Byers with Powers

Oh look it’s time for yet another longwinded s5 Thinking Thoughts post with an off the rails ending. I feel like I’m getting predictable.

Well, anyway, I talked about this in the tags of a post that I reblogged at one point, but it's currently 20 minutes to midnight and I should either be sleeping or working on writing for the campaign I'm DMing in the new year, but instead all I can think about is Henry Creel and Will having powers and the way that Henry talks about his victims/how they appear in his mindscape. And, you know, also the fact that I've read all the currently available The Locked Tomb books and they left me scarred, and also altered my brain chemistry in such a way that once I thought about this possibility I couldn't stop thinking about it..

So, yeah. Time for me to talk about Henry Creel, and the way he talks about his victims, and I know I put this in the Byler tag, and I promise that's not just because of the target demo. I will eventually circle around to talking about Mike and Will in the context of this post in an unnecessarily angsty way.

But for now... Henry.

In s4e7, Henry tells El: "I could not do that. I could not close off my mind and join in the madness. I could not pretend. And I realized, I didn't have to. I could make my own rules. I could restore balance to a broken world. A predator... but for good. […] With each life I took, I grew stronger. More powerful. They were becoming a part of me. But I was still a child, and I did not yet know my limits. And it nearly killed me."

This monologue is, honestly, full of a bunch of really interesting things, and I'm can think of at least three posts that I currently have on the brain that I'm going to pick it apart for, but in terms of this specific post, I've bolded the bits I'll be focused on, and I'll be back to it in a bit.

Later in that scene, El looks to the dead bodies of the other lab kids, and Henry says: "They're not gone, Eleven. They're still with me. In here."

What I think is really important about this whole scene, right off the bat, is that Henry is not immediately hostile upon realizing that El has disobeyed him and left the closet. Regardless of whether you believe he had any amount of genuine affection for her or not, I think it's really important to note that the way in which Henry bonds with El/gains her trust is through teaching her things. He teaches her how to use her emotions in order to harness her powers more effectively. He teaches her to start questioning Brenner's motives. He teaches her about Sotaria (which also ties in with the previous thing). He teaches her how to escape the lab through the sewers (which I believe it's implied is how she got out of the lab in s1, though I'm not going back to check because I'm rewatching s1 for a different analysis and I don't want to lose my place). So the fact that he's still using his gentle voice with El here, and the fact that he's stopping to explain not only his motivations, but the fact that the people he kills are "not gone" and are "in here" [gestures to his head], suggests to me that he's attempting to teach her one last thing. Something that might make her okay with the fact that he just murdered a whole lab full of literally every person she's ever known save Kali and Brenner.

And this is so easy to dismiss as the ramblings of a mad man, or as him saying something to the effect of "I never forget any of the people that I kill". But I think it's a little dismissive to ignore what Henry says as simply the words of someone entirely disconnected from reality. Obviously, he is deluded. He talks about himself as though he is not also human, and he actively seems to want to kill everyone except possibly El and Will? But having delusions about his importance and identity and ideology is not the same thing as being deluded into believing something untrue about his powers/into falsely believing that his victims are kept alive inside him somehow. Moreover, although this last line in isolation could make sense in the context that he keeps the memories of his victims alive in his own mind, the rest of what he says does not line up with that. Nor does the fact that we see Chrissy's mangled body (and possibly some of the other victims, I'm so sorry I cannot remember-- but definitely at least one of the victims is seen in the mindscape) twisted into his mindscape.

So... now I'm going to go back to the earlier part of his speech and pick apart the bolded parts.

"I could make my own rules." The last time we heard that, it was El was saying it to Mike, in a misquote of Max's "we make our own rules". When Max was saying it, she was reassuring El that respinning the bottle was fine because, as the only two playing the game, they could make their own rules about what to do. However, when El uses it, it's because Mike has realized that she spied on him without his consent, and his offended response is to that "that's against the rules" (from context, it's difficult to know if this is a reference to rules that Hopper set out for her, or rules that she and Mike established together for their relationship-- the former isn't a great look for Mike, and the latter isn't a great look for El). El bites back, saying, "I make my own rules". When she says that, she is essentially saying "I have the ability to spy on you, so if I choose to do so, that's my prerogative" (let me just say: Mike did a lot of things wrong in s3, and he absolutely started the fight between him and El, but this specific action was not great of her). This parallels with Henry saying that he made his own rules, because when he says that, he seems to mean that he had the ability to read peoples' minds (and possibly more than that), and as such, it was his prerogative to do whatever he wanted to whomever he wanted, at any time. El is not the same as Henry (by any stretch of the imagination)... I just think this parallel is interesting (and also the contrast-- ultimately, El did what she did because she was having fun with a friend, which still isn't great because spying on people when they're supposed to be in private is not a good thing to do, but it's in an entirely different league from what Henry has done with similar power).

"A predator... but for good". So... the word "predator" has a lot of meanings, and I don't want to get too deeply into the conversations about whether Henry is or is not worthy of that title in the entirely too human sense, because it's far outside the scope of this post. However, we do know from the context of his monologue that when Henry talks about predators/apex predators, he's talking about spiders. That gives us context to know that when he calls himself a predator, it's likely that he means in the same way that a spider is a predator. Why are spiders predators? Because they hunt and kill other animals for food. The "for food" part of that is really important, because it's a key, defining factor in whether an animal is acting in a predatory way. However, predators are not inherently good or inherently evil. They are, by their nature as animals, inherently neutral. So, when Henry says that he could be "a predator... but for good", we know that he is essentially saying "a predator, like a spider... but with the human capacity to use that predatory status in order to enact what I believe to be good [which, in the context of Henry, means a complete disruption of "normal" human society] in the world".

"With each life I took, I grew stronger. More powerful. They were becoming a part of me." So... this is the line. This is the line that, to me, solidifies the idea that Henry's power grows specifically through the murders that he enacts. And that the people he kills in some way become part of him after death. It's exactly what he says and, although we have reason to doubt some of the other things that he says, this would be a very weird thing for him to lie about from an in-character POV, because it was never brought up as a possibility by anyone else, and weird for him to lie about from a narrative standpoint, because the characters don’t seem to really do anything with that information in s4 (nobody even suggests that Max could be inside Henry’s mind), so if it’s not literally true… why have him say that at all? Because if it isn’t meant literally… it’s a really odd line, and there would be other ways to phrase it if the implication was supposed to be “killing people made me feel stronger/improved my skills, and I metaphorically hold those I kill with me because remembering them gives me perverse glee”. Like, is it possible that’s what he means? Maybe. But personally I think the literal read makes more sense, because the metaphorical read doesn’t make sense in context of him trying to convince El to understand his perspective. Also, just, from a narrative standpoint, if it’s literally true, that opens up avenues to allow previously killed characters to make a re-appearance and, possibly puppeted or twisted by Henry’s mind, screw with the protagonists. Via the UD, Henry killed/directed to be killed: Barb (Nancy), Bob (Joyce or Will… lord if I have to watch Will face down Bob telling him that he killed him, I don’t know what I’ll do), possibly Max (Lucas and/or El), Eddie (Dustin), and technically also Will in s1 if they want to turn the Harry Potter allusions on their head and do a reverse horcrux situation where a sliver of Will’s soul is still in Henry and that’s what’s keeping them connected in which case hhhhhhh (Jonathan, Joyce, and Will could all have interesting reactions to this, but dear god if I have to watch Mike Wheeler face down a twisted, puppeted fragment of Will’s soul and suffer all the abuse Henry can use it to throw at him, and still look at it like s2 Mike looked at Will in the shed? I don’t even know what to say I’ll simply collapse I think??), and then obv if he kills anyone else that would add to the possible haunts. Like. You’ve got a character who can dip into people’s heads and the implication that he literally keeps his victims souls in his mind in some way… you could totally do some interesting stuff with having people meet their tortured and twisted dead loved ones is all I’m saying. Anyway, that’s a tangent. I just think it’s interesting.

So... anyway, in short, we know that Henry is willing to do whatever he wants in service of his own interests, just because he can, regardless of how others feel about it. We know that he considers himself a predator in the animal way (which implies the use of whatever you kill as food or at least a source of energy in some direct way), and that he believes he can specifically harness this predatory nature for his idea of "good". And we know that the people that Henry kills are, in some way, "part of" him, and that taking their lives makes him somehow "stronger" (presumably in his powers).

And... we also know that Henry has been compared to Dracula (or, more broadly, vampires in general via arguably the most famous vampire).

So... the connections to Dracula are pretty obvious on the surface. Scary undead/less dead than originally anticipated dude who was once human but now very much is not lives far away in a spooky old house, surrounded by spooky animals that Aren't Quite Right. And then there are all of the OTHER connections-- a protagonist named Jonathan who is very far away from the woman he loves, SO many letters (I say, thinking about Max's letters and El and Mike's letters and Mike and Will's copious lack of letters, and.... hhh), and a large group going to kill Dracula, including a young woman/girl who has been "marked" by him and, though they have found a rather simple way to keep him at bay from her, if he gets his way she will be killed and will join him forever... I'm just saying. The parallels are there.

But, also, I want to think about vampire myths more generally. Because vampires have a history which dates back at least as far as Mesopotamia (in various forms/in root forms, not necessarily by the name "vampire"/in any forms that are particularly similar to modern interpretations— being clear because I think vampire history/mythology through time is legitimately interesting and many cultures have vampire-like creatures but very few of them are literally called ‘vampires’ and… ugh I’m sorry I’ll get off topic if I let myself rant about this but these myths are so cool!!), so vampires have been a lot of things over time. But at least today, they're very associated with blood in popular culture (nosebleeds), they don't show up in mirrors (traditionally this was because mirrors had silver in them but something something the UD or at least the Mind Flayer doesn't like water, Henry says he holds up a mirror to everyone else... I don't know just interesting), they're associated with bats and wolves (demobats and demodogs), sometimes they're said to be able to turn into mist (the shadow monster?), and there are potential ties to the more general anxieties about blood born or sexually transmitted diseases/to incubus/succubus mythology (a little more abstract here, but this may tie into the way that Henry often appears in dreams/visions which prey on his victims' anxieties-- not to mention, for a show set in the 80s with a gay teen at the forefront, there are copiously no allusions to the AIDS crisis, despite the fact that we see Will being violently bullied for being gay, so, you know, if you take the UD as a metaphor for that reality— a topic so wildly outside the scope of this post that I cannot say more about it even though I actually think it’s a really interesting metaphor that seems to exist in the show— then, yeah, that's another metaphorical tie to blood born/sexually transmitted disease).

But there is also a potential connection between vampires as blood drinkers and the concept of blood as some sort of physical representation of life force/soul. They're not necessarily 1:1 on a spiritual/religious level, depending on your tradition, but it's pretty common to associate blood in some way with the soul. So, when a vampire drinks the blood of their victim, they are, on at least a metaphorical level, essentially consuming the soul of their victims (which gets into some interesting stuff with the common idea that a vampire does not have a soul, or that to become a vampire, one must not only have their blood consumed by a vampire, but must also consume that vampire's blood as well). So, if Henry is allegorically a vampire, and vampires drink something that is metaphorically like soul, and Henry's a predator whose victims make him stronger... hm.

All of which is to say, I think the show is telling us, through the vampire allusions and through the implications of everything he's said, that Henry in some way consumes the souls (or minds or life forces or potential futures or whatever) of his victims (thus making him a true predator who not only kills but also eats what he kills).

This seems to be what he's trying to teach El in that final conversation before she banishes him to the Upside Down, and the fact that she could not (or would not) understand what he was saying seems to have been the thing that turned him from trying to keep her on his side to deciding to attempt to kill her (or to simply make her watch as he kills and presumably consumes Max). And we know that El doesn't learn it, because we can clearly see that killing doesn't make her stronger, so she's clearly not consuming any of the people she's killing. She can mimic Henry's methods of killing people physically (we see this in s1, and that's highlighted when the military suspects that El's doing the murders in s4 because Henry's style is so similar to her own), but she can't or won't do whatever it is that he does to consume souls.

But this poses a problem, though.

Because, El's already had her training montage. She became stronger and went off to face the big bad, and she lost. Max died and Hawkins fell. That's a failure of the "love confession saves the world" trope, as people have discussed, but it's also a failure of the training montage trope! El is at her strongest, and she still cannot defeat Henry alone.

Which brings me to Will. I'm not going to get into all of the details which suggest that Will has powers of some sort, beyond his Henry-sensing abilities. Other people have done that, and there really isn't room for it here. However, what I would wonder is, even if Will discovers his powers at some point before the potential time skip... how is he going to be strong enough to (in tandem with El) defeat Henry, when an entire lab full of trained and superpowered kids weren't able to? Because Will is still a child, himself, and at best, he won't even know about his powers for more than about three years, presumably WITHOUT the intense level of training that El received from birth?

And... here's where I'm going to bring things back to something I've said in another post which is... this late in the game, if they're going to introduce any established protagonists besides El having powers, those powers are going to have to feel like a loss when they first appear/quickly after they appear. The character who has them has to be hurt by them, so they don't feel like a cheap win for the characters. Would it be sudden for Will to develop powers? No, not really. The clues have been there from s1. But they're also subtle enough that if you're not into ST analysis or prone to regularly rewatching the show, they're easy to miss, so a fair bit of s5 would have to be devoted to showing Will realizing that he has them and growing into using them in order for any use of them against Henry to feel earned. Incidentally, these are all the same things which are equally true for the establishment/on-screen development of Byler, so I wouldn’t be shocked if there was a connection there.

And this is where I'm about to go wildly off the rails, but... what if Will has powers and gets a power boost in the absolute worst way possible? Because, depending on how Henry consumes his victims (obviously just killing them isn't it, because that does nothing for El)... I mean. Mike has all those death flags going on (even though I highly doubt he'll end the show dead). I don't know.

I'm just saying... Mike's prone to self-sacrifice, if he thinks it will help the people he loves. I'm just saying, if he were already dying, and if they already knew that Henry has the advantage because he's consuming the souls of the people he kills(/absorbing them into his mindscape in some capacity that allows him to use them to fuel his own abilities), and if they knew that Will had similar powers but with less strength because he only had his own self to draw upon... I'm just saying, would Mike Wheeler do anything else, except beg Will to make his death mean something? Would he honestly trust anyone else enough to literally give everything that he is to them?

I'm just saying, it would be an absolute gut punch of a scene, it would tie back into Mike's s1 character issues of self-sacrifice, it would give narrative weight to what seems to be the fact that Henry in some way keeps or draws power from the people that he's killed. And it would be incredibly easy to write it in such a way that there's more power in a willing sacrifice/in a soul that is willingly with you/willing to work with your own than in a plethora of souls that you have trapped in your mental "web" in order to feast on. Something something gay love saves the day (plus, El's almost certainly going to figure out a way to put Max back into her own body at some point in s5, so it's not even like there wouldn't be a way for Mike to come back to life, as long as they managed to keep his body alive-- also because, as I said in the notes of the post where I first commented on this concept, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that they're ending the show with Will as Mike's devastated living mausoleum, like, it's just not happening that way).

So, uh. Yeah, that’s the thought that keeps spinning in circles around my head, and I hate it so much. I’m aware that this is an out there idea and almost certainly won’t come to pass, and frankly, I’m glad for that.

But the fact that it’s far fetched doesn’t mean that I can unsee the mental image of Mike/Will in a HtN Gideon/Harrow style situation where Mike and Will are both in Will’s head, and Mike, whenever he’s lucid, is begging Will to just finish the job, to consume him properly so Will and El/the Party can be even a step closer to defeating Henry, and meanwhile Will’s doing everything he can to avoid dousing the last bit of Mike he has left, especially when he still hopes to put Mike back in his body. Like. I know this won’t happen, but even the thought that there’s a 0.01% chance that it could has me shaking in my boots.

#henry creel #will byers #byler #<- technically I guess #I talk about Mike and Will near the end of the post at least #my analysis #long post #I absolutely hate this idea btw #it's horrible and if it happens I will do as I've already promised and throw my laptop in a lake #I cannot take that kind of heartbreak again #nor could I handle having to watch Will go through something like that #but I had to say it anyway because it's been plaguing me #and I feel like #if I make a post about it #maybe that will successfully jinx the idea #so I never have to watch it happen on my screen #because I'm sure it won't happen #like I'm aware that this is a far fetched idea #but man #that is not stopping it from haunting me #I do think the Henry stuff is interesting and relevant tho #I just don’t know think they’d Go There with the Mike and Will stuff #I hope #because I swear if I have to watch Mike begging Will to consume his soul for power #and potentially mistaking Will’s (obvious and foregone) rejection of that idea as rejection of *Mike*?#rejection of Mike’s sacrifice and feelings and possibly even as a person if Will’s so ‘grossed out’ he won’t even used Mike as fuel?#if I have to watch that then I can’t be held accountable for my actions

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thatonesongyouretryingtoremember · 2 years ago

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✨️intro post✨️

I edit this over time so please check it kinda often for updates esp the last part with some posts I really like/ that I used real life braincells on, and the beginning for if I add more sideblogs. If you have LITERALLY ANY other questions not answered here, shoot me an ask in my inbox and I will probably answer. If I think it's in good faith but poor taste I'll just say that, so if you're being nice I won't be mad or at least I'll like the attention :3

I'm thatonesongyouretryingtoremember. Song for short and OneSong for long. Or Remy??? I use all pronouns or it/it's. My other blogs are @aroasexualboypussy which is a regular sideblog where I keep fandom rbs besides my own fandoms and spam rbs and @jupiter-jayfield-official which is a Mikhailgate blog/El appreciation blog kinda.I also made a blog called @twasagraveyardsmash and that's my "music blog" aka rambling, keysmashing, and reblogging about music I like, someone likes, or my other music- related posts. I have another ST rp blog as Max- @madmaxmayfield71 , and at some point I started a blog called @byler-freeze-book with the intention of it being a byler tag positivity blog but it kinda flopped. You can still send asks there tho <2 @angelbymadonna is my art blog. I also have a Miraculous roleplay blog as Zoe's superhero form, Vesperia @the-real-bee-holder-vesperia

Tumblr-spouse to @exhausted-enby-vibes <2, coparent of Mikhail Max

My blog used to have this glitch where it was hidden, but I didn't do anything to cause that, so if you see smthng lemme know. I also am still confused by tags on here, so lemme know if I tag something wrong. I also reblog most of the art I see, but I don't always know who's in it, so if I end up reblogging a problematic fanart on accident (which I haven't done yet) lemme know as well.

Hashtags I use

#song spouts bullshit, shitposts/non-ST posts

#song says a smart thing, new tag I'm gonna put on longer posts

#songs textpost bullshit, or #song's textpost bullshit, original textpost memes and meme formats

#artist song, my original art [find it on my art blog as well, linked above] [includes ficlets and visual art, the latter with image description]

#song's st rewatch, details and commentary while I watch the show!

#angela is jane, #angela ives, a theory I elaborate on further down in this post

Blog type/ content (I say content, what I mean is it's what my blog contains. It's for me, not you.)

I'll talk about my ST stuff first since that's what I'm primarily posting rn. I'm a fandom blog and will be for the foreseeable future. As far as ST, I have alot of ship content, but in my other fandoms I don't care as much about shipping. You can ask me about fandoms/media I like maybe :)

I ship elmax, byler, Lumax, hopclair, elumax, jargyle, jancy, Boyce, jopper, boycer, duzie, and a few other things. I also reblog some ronance, steddie, byclair etc content as well. My favorite ST character is Kali. Occasionally you'll see my blog possessed by the soul of a Kali disciple or elmax fangirl. I also some fandom posts besides my own if I'm reblogging art from my mutuals' reblogs ofc.

I post a bunch of shitposts about Stranger Things, and longposts related to theories or analysis I'm into at the time.

I am still not over Mikhailgate, btw. Even though I personally think Mikhail ships byler, alot of my mikhailgate content is willhail.

I also read KotLC, riordanverse (I've read 1-14 of chb chronicles and most of 15 and obv not Chalice yet, 1-2 Kane Chronicles, 1-3 mcga, and none of the spinoffs so far. Can't wait for the show!), and I watch The Owl House, Dragon Prince, and She-Ra 2018. I'm not as avidly in fandom for these but I like them. If there's something else you think I might like or don't know if I've seen/read, lemme know! At the time I'm writing this update, I'm sorry into Miraculous Ladybug! but I haven't seen the second half of S5 yet.

Stuff I want you to know

I have a detailed post about the history of mikhailgate.

My Spotify has tons of character playlists!

I have a theory about Kali's time at the lab which is actually a thinly disguised rant about her halfway finished arc.The theory is ass and I no longer believe it, but the rant still stands and I still believe she has more to offer.

^^pretty obviously not gonna happen but I like to keep it up :) it's an old theory that I no longer believe but I still think she should be in the next szn!!!

I wrote a thing about the Material Girl shopping sequence aka about El my beloved nobody else understands her <2.

Nancy and Steve are aromantic. (Check the respective tags as well, I have more)

Byler Week 2022

I'm right about El, nobody else. Jk but here's my super smart ST5 prediction! Aka thinly disguised El Hopper fangirl rant😅😅

Once again I'm the only correct person (/nsrs) so here's the official list my take of the party's riordanverse godly parents

Check out this post and this one and this one to start learning about the theory that Angela is the real Jane Ives!

There are tags for it too, #angela is jane, and #angela ives, make sure to check them out because there is always new input! This is related to the theories that El is actually not Terry's daughter, that El *is* Edward Creel's daughter (I'm not the guy to ask about those, shoot me an ask and I'll tell you who tho!) And that multiple timelines exist within what we see of Stranger Things!

#intro post #pin post #hopefully I did this right #song spouts bullshit #artist song

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