#i shouldn't let people on twitter get to me but alas

[akitossohma]

heyy i love love love your post about lg’s morals you truly read the tea leaves with that one!!! i do disagree with what you said about lg being amoral tho i feel amoral suggests he isn’t aware of morals but he definitely is, and u did point that out in your post! no hate at all btw

hi!! thank you for your kind words :3. i believe you are referring to this post

this got very long and accidentally turned into a whole meta on lu guang and vein lmaoo. answer under the cut:

yeah honestly in retrospect i do feel that my use of the word "amoral" was a bit clumsy lol. this post is nearly a year old so it's hard to recall specifics but i think at the time i failed to consider the full definition of the word, which is not only a disregard for morals but also a lack of moral sense to begin with. and like you said, my own posts contradict that, as lg is shown to be well aware of the moral code. i also was trying to use it as like, a middle ground i guess? between moral and immoral. like my "at best" addition was me trying to be generous, but upon reflection that's sort of a false dichotomy.

for some context, the post you are referencing got posted to twitter (something i didn't know until ppl told me) and was lowkey a hit tweet (a bit scary ngl), and while most people agreed, a small handful Did Not Like it haha

interestingly, a couple of the tweets disagreeing did focus heavily on both the "amoral" thing and me saying lg wasn't a morally grey anti hero. bc i don't want to debate on twitter, i'm gonna take advantage of this ask to explain myself further hehe

DISCLAIMER: what follows is my current perspective and analysis based on available information. i understand everything i have said already and will continue to say going forward could be proven wrong in future seasons.

the main criticism i saw (again this was only like, three people, but still) was that i "disagreed with him being a morally grey anti hero but then proceeded to describe just that". i do understand why this was some people's take away bc the terms "morally grey" and "antihero" have kind of been blurred over the years. since i am by no means the final word on how these terms are to be used, all i can do is provide my understanding of the terms:

morally grey = a character whose actions are morally ambiguous

antihero = a character whose actions/traits are often questionable, but who, at the end of the day, can still be classified as a hero rather than a villain

based on my understanding of the terms (which does seem to coincide with formal definitions), lu guang would not be morally grey as i feel his actions are explicitly immoral (immoral = when the character's actions are definitively wrong and violate a pre-established moral code - i touch on this more in this post) and he would not be an antihero as i feel he cannot be classified as heroic in the grand scheme of things. yes he is complex, yes he is sympathetic, yes he has a capacity for kindness/selflessness and is largely motivated by love, but none of those things make him an antihero. if that were the case, any well written villain would be a antihero haha.

there's a whole other added layer of complexity here because lg is a) not the antagonist and b) not the story villain. for the sake of this argument, the "story villain" is defined as the individual who is the villain only in framing, whereas the "real villain" is defined as the individual who is unequivocally in the wrong by real-world moral standards. the same differentiator can be applied to heroes. so when i say lg cannot be considered heroic, that is what i am referring to. furthermore, vein and liu xiao, who appear to be working together, are currently both the antagonists and the story villains, but that is mostly due to us being anchored in lg's perspective. we don't know much about their motives/goals other than a) they want to maintain the timeline ("make the uncertain, certain") and b) they want csx dead. we of course root against them because csx is the hero & protagonist of our story, and bc they have proven to have very questionable morals themselves. however, based on the information currently available, i’d argue that it's possible to interpret them as very morally grey antiheroes in the grand scheme of things. we already know that they are working against lg because lg has disrupted the timeline and compromised the "certainty" liu xiao mentions. they will (most likely) always be the antagonists, but it would not take much reframing for them to no longer be strictly villains, if that makes any sense. ProWritingAid puts this distinction very succinctly: "A story's villain is always an antagonist, but not every antagonist needs to be a villain." imo the only "hero" this story has is csx, and i have a feeling he will remain that way, though like all things i've said, this could change.

and that leads me to my final point. i am well aware that the show initially frames lg as a hero and hasn’t fully positioned him as a villain yet. however, in my opinion, the ending of bridon arc marked a shift in how he is being framed within the narrative. i want to make it clear my posts have been less about the show's current framing and more about analyzing the ethics of lu guang's actions through an objective, real-world lens. and playing around with some reframing hypotheticals of course. this is something that unfortunately got lost along the way.

anyways, i don't mind it if people disagree or have additional perspectives, but some of the critiques felt like they were missing the point in one way or another. and some of them were straight up rude. sorry for this whole essay, i hope you don't mind!

[conundrumoftime]

Is there any space that's safe to enjoy my ships anymore? I feel like this place has become quite hostile recently due to misunderstandings.. I and a couple of my friends are looking to move to other sites but the format of blusky is unfamiliar and intimidating. I'm not used to non blog sites tbh. Most of us like other ships besides the 'problematic' one but ships shouldn't be used to ridicule or attack others. It's making the entire fandom on tumblr look like an unwelcome space for new fans. All because someone took one terrible unhinged person and made it to be about ships. Is there a discord too? I'll come off anon if needed. I'm just so tired to feeling like I have a target on me at all times just for what I like. Some ppl just dont want to SALS on here it seems.

I don't know what's happening/has happened with Tumblr and I'm not on here often enough to speculate, but yeah, the TROP part of this place feels very hostile and weird at the moment. (And I haven't seen much about the stalker specifically here but I know of that stalker/other bad fandom behaviour around the actors & their families and have seen it discussed this week on Twitter, so I will say this: in my view, making behaviour like the stalking weirdness into something about ships and why Those Shippers (whoever the assigned 'Those Shippers' are this week) are Bad trivialises the actual harm done to actual people, and therefore I don't think is ever a good road to go down.)

As for where's better: I don't know, alas. Bluesky is still so new it's hard to see how the culture will shake out, and it's not really doing the same thing as Tumblr anyway. Twitter is toxic, Reddit is weird, DreamWidth is really really quiet. of There are Discords but most of them are either ship-specific or tiny little groups of friends, but I think there is at least one general TROP one that's good that I've seen mentioned/promoted on here before, and at least one Haladriel one I saw last week in the tags here that said it was multishipper-friendly.

But! It's also my view that most people in fandom (here & elsewhere) aren't here to yell and shout and spend all their time fighting ship wars and don't see fandom as something you can Win - it's just that the few who do seem to think like that are always the loudest. It's hard not to let it get to you, but I do not intend to let the people with that attitude ruin my fandom experience. so whatever happens with Bluesky or other platforms, and whatever someone's elf-related grudge on here might be, I'm going to keep talking about the stuff I like and writing about the stuff I like anyway.

[leggerefiore]

So I've been thinking about the hybrid AU, right? And let me tell you, I would constantly be posting on social media about how much I love my hybrid boyfriend and how amazing and worthy of love and respect he is. But also how much I want his dick.

S/O: *posting to Twitter after seeing some anti-hybrid shit* Can you imagine discriminating against hybrids? Couldn't be me! Anyway I've got an awesome hybrid boyfriend waiting for me at home, gonna go get my back blown out by his amazing hybrid cock!

For another thing, obviously Ingo and Emmet are grossed out seeing S/O be horny over their brother. However, in the hybrid AU, I think there might be something of an exception.

Ingo/Emmet: Please. I don't want to see you lusting over my brother.

The Public: *continues to see hybrids as gross and unfuckable*

Ingo/Emmet: I've changed my mind. My brother deserves to be an object of sexual desire and everyone should know it. Please keep posting about how much you want to fuck him.

S/O: I got you fam. 👍

Ingo, of course, would be the harder sell on this. He prefers to keep sexual business private! But it is not an abomination against Arceus for his brother to have sex, so he's not going to stop Emmet's S/O from telling people otherwise. He might like a post from Emmet's S/O talking about how you shouldn't fear the cloaca if he heard a lot of anti-hybrid talk on the subway that day.

Emmet, meanwhile, retweets Ingo's S/O's post of a gif of a pinap berry being squashed, juice squirting everywhere, with the caption "When my hybrid boyfriend pulls out♡"

Any canine hybrids enjoyers are getting the knot treatment

Elesa likes every horny post and replies with hearts lmao. She is supporting this 100% openly despite her manager insisting that she Not. Enjoy the hybrid dick, she's glad her friend's partner loves them a lot. (And would be mad if they didn't.)

Alas there would so many angry dudebros insisting s/o just hasn't had good human dick or saying no human man would want them now lol

(Posting pictures of your spider bf catching bugs, or your moth bf being absolutely hypnotised by lights.)

[kpdeek]

Episode 13 Thoughts & Reactions

Omfggggg... with every episode I have so much on my mind, but reading all the wonderful metas others post helps me deal with it all. I did a post for a previous KP episode (I think it was 6?), but EP13 was jam packed with SO MUCH that I need to get things into words again.

First of all, Vegas & Pete. They broke my heart, together & individually. Vegas constantly being reminded of his lack of worth, finally standing up to his father...only to be put in his place again. And did yall see how happy he was preparing that food, how detailed he was with plating it? All for Pete, who he's found some semblance of happiness with despite Pete being there against his will. I absolutely LOVED the moment between VP when Pete's weakness broke through. All this time he's been telling Vegas how wrong everyone is about pitting him against his cousin, that he shouldn't hurt himself, that his father is an idiot. But there's a part of Pete that feels useless & pathetic too. Pete's struggle between what he knows is wrong & what he wants is too real, too raw, & too emotional. I have seen that this scene was quite triggering for some people, so I won't say too much about it. But you know V & P are way too into each other at this point to go thru with killing the other.

Still, there's so much messed up about their attraction to the other, too much trauma bonding, that Pete can't reconcile it despite Vegas finding solace in it. You guys, this scene was the most emotional scene for me from the entire series. I think either right along with (or maybe even topping) the end of EP6 😱 I can't wait for more astute viewers to analyze the shit out of it.

Now KimChay (I shall leave my favorite couple for the end): obviously more time has passed between Kim & Chay than we saw on camera, because where did all those Polaroids come from? I read someone's post, I can't remember whether on Twitter or Reddit, that said Chay left these pictures in random places for Kim to stumble upon (when they were together of course). I think it's a cute thought, I think I'll believe it. Because it's all the more heartbreaking for Kim to keep finding them & being reminded of what a good thing he could have had, and what a bad thing he did. Good job to Chay for not letting this man walk all over him. He BLOCKED him. Like...I know I didn't have that much control over my emotions when I was going thru angst shit like this. We'd be mad @ each other, & I'd still be expecting a text like "please still be thinking of me". I know I'm not the only one. The only thing is I wish it wasn't at the expense of Chays education. (I'm a teacher, I value education HIGHLY). a few questions I have: what was Kim doing at the main house anyway? What could Korn want from him? What's with Kim's investigation, & how is he going to use what he knows? Because so far it's all been for naught. His investigation revealed some things to the viewers, but didn't move anyone else's plot along at all. I really hope we see him in the final battle, as I like to call it. It's going to be a Civil War, & all the Theerapanyakul Brothers better step up.

Random, but I think worth pointing out. Kim's shirt says "human". Maybe it's the theme of this episode, considering what Pete says to Vegas before he runs away, the way Kim is dealing with losing Chay, & Porsche not being able to forgive & forget what happened in the past.

Now, KinnPorsche: it was heartbreaking to see Kinn doing what he can to make Porsche happy, all the while knowing Porsche is keeping something from him. And Kinn recognized that Porsche wasn't telling him the truth, did yall see how he looked at him when Porsche gave throw away answers?

Ughhh, my heart. The graveside scene was beautiful, Mile appeared in Kinn here when he was staring at Porsche nonstop, I loved it. And then the pool scene. I gotta say, I didn't expect the scene to be surrounded by such heartbreaking moments, but alas it's what we got. Mile & Apo deserve all the accolades. I mean...it was so tender & beautiful, and sexy. & we got them finally saying "I love you" directly to each other. Despite everything that took place after, and everything to take place, can Kinn even doubt Porsche's love for him, and vice versa? It's very interesting to see how Kinn will react to Porsche leaving with all he knows now. Circumstances are definitely different, hell, KINN is different now. Even if Porsche is betraying the family, will Kinn take that as a personal betrayal as well? We know they'll make up in the next episode, but until that scene comes, I'm really looking forward to seeing how Kinn handles it all.

Everything else: I like the way the show is playing with Porsche's parents' death story. It's so well done, well put together, that if you haven't been reading others' novel spoilers it's surely to shock you. I understand Porsche's handling of the situation; sometimes you don't want to involve your loved ones in the doubts you have, especially when they're so intertwined with those doubts, yet you know they're not really a part of it. Vegas coming into play here is interesting. I always assumed that he was the one storming the main family house at the end, that the main family was shooting AGAINST him, but with everything that's come to light, I'm thinking it's possible that he's joining them instead. Against who?

His father.

Yes, I think his father shot Porsche's mom & dad. In Porsche's memory, only Korn & Gun were there, & I KNOW Korn didn't kill them. So.... & Vegas has a lot of anger, resentment, & bitterness harbored against his dad that I could see him blaming Gun for losing Pete & everything else he's loved. We've already seen Vegas push back against his dad in this episode, so what's not to say he won't go full throttle in the next? Besides, he loves Pete, he's helping Porsche, and Pete has made him realize that maybe...he doesn't have to live up to Kinn.

I appreciate how Porsche knows Vegas is behind what happened to Pete. Here's where that phrase we all love throwing around comes into play: morally Grey. Despite knowing that Vegas harmed Pete so badly based on what Porsche was able to see, he still requests his help, and even makes sure to set things up for him to see Pete. I was...appalled at this action, but had to remind myself that these characters are looking out for NO.1 only. Themselves. & this scene between Vegas & Pete, the way Pete slid down the beam & Vegas went with him...guys, I'm telling you. Everything about them got me emotional this episode.

About the ending, i find it interesting that P's uncle is at the temple. It just goes to highlight how fake he is, because we know that guy doesn't have a worshipping bone in his body. I reveled in Porsche taking the money back, but was upset that the uncle died right in front of him. That's 3 family members Porsche has witnessed getting murdered. & let me tell you, even when you despise a family member, you still feel a certain sadness when something like this befalls them. But Uncle was true to his character until the end.

Some ppl were questioning why would Kinn shoot him when Porsche is right there, he could've hit him. Ummmm...I don't think anyone from the main family shot him. Not Pete, not Kinn. The two were too far away, basically rounding a corner. It appeared to me that they started running when they heard the gun shots, not that they were the source of them. And the way it was shot confirms that for me: rather than the camera panning to show Kinn or Pete with their guns outstretched as if they shot, it shows Porsche falling & getting a bit of his memory back. Indicating that he didn't actually see who shot his uncle, therefore neither did we. And there's something symbolic about Vegas & Porsche riding away together while Kinn & Pete are left behind. I could probably pull something from it, but I'm on summer vacation & my brain isn't required to squeeze meaning out of everything for the next 1.5 months, so I'll leave that to better equipped minds.

And finally, the ending scene. Ahh, Porsche pointing a gun at Korn's head. How I've waited this entire show to see this happening. & of course, Korn drops the bombshell. "She was my sister". Iwnsishsnaowveiapqapaodhei.

For the record, I don't think she was his biological sister, no Kinn & Porsche aren't cousins, no it doesn't still count just because their parents maybe called each other "bro" & "sis" once upon a time. I loved that they kept this in the show from the books. It ups the drama. Makes everything that happened--& everything that's going to happen--hit harder, mean more. Sure, they could've tried to find another way to explain how Korn & Porsche'a parents knew each other, but it's already been written this way. Why change something that works (we know they changed things that DIDNT work, like with Vegas & Pete). Also, the way Korn phrased it, leaving out the 'adopted' part? I laughed. He knows it's going to freak Porsche out for obvious reasons, but the episode ended on a cliffhanger & what better way to gut punch the viewers & Porsche than to phrase it like this. Anyway, he'll definitely clarify in the next episode.

EP13 did not disappoint. Nothing that happened, or at least the way it happened, was expected, & for a show to be able to do that consistently--well, I'll never be able to praise the writing enough. It's wonderfully done. The best of the best (tho, I would be remiss if I said it was perfect. There are some issues, but they're relatively minor). With that, I'd love to read everyone else's thoughts & predictions 😆

[lokaneiscanon]

Mighty Thor in Thor: Love and Thunder rant

Seeing Natalie Portman returning to reprise her role as Jane Foster, nevertheless wielding Mjolnir, finally getting the treatment this character deserves, was surreal to say the least. I had just started reading Lords of Midgard, the 8th issue of Mighty Thor (2015 - 2018), and had fallen in love already. But I didn't suspect at all that Taika Waititi would pull this card in Thor: Love and Thunder, considering Jane was barely mentioned in Ragnarok. The news about my favorite actress portraying one of my favorite characters coming out of the blue - you can imagine the excitement. Alas, I quickly remembered what the fandom thought of that comic (at least on tumblr) and imagined it now growing tenfold, cuz not everyone in the MCU fandom reads comics but pretty much everyone wants to watch another Thor movie. And yes, many fans weren't ready for this step, still recovering from Sam Wilson getting the shield in Endgame. Which is completely fine. We're not obligated to like everything Marvel throws in our faces, we're allowed to criticize and express our opinion on the internet or wherever. What is not okay is mindlessly hating, and even worse - using false facts to support said opinion.

I have seen some people using the argument that it is one of Marvel's worst selling comics. Which has already been proven wrong by multiple sites, including Comichron, just Google it, as I did myself. I read multiple posts, ones saying how good Jane is doing as Thor in sales, others disproving this, so I checked for myself the numbers at the site mentioned above month by month to be sure. The comic truly had its downfalls as the story progressed but in my opinion it's normal for the 1st issue to have more sales than the 21st. If we compare it to Unworthy Thor, which started running a bit later and followed the now unworthy Odinson, the data shows the latter had more sales. But then again, while Might Thor was at its 17th issue, Unworthy Thor was at its 2nd. Also, they later crossed paths, shared comic issues, it's fair to say they go hand in hand and Jason Aaron, the author, probably doesn't want us to compare them, as they complete and compliment each other's stories. Still I decided to check the comic that made Thor unworthy in the first place - Thor: God of Thunder (2012 - 2014), which seemed to me more "comparable" to Might Thor (2015 - 2018). *I keep putting the years it was being released so as to not be confused with previous Mighty Thor issues, whole Odinson was still Thor, please bear with me* So yes, the numbers were pretty close, but from what I saw, Mighty Thor had the upper hand if we compare first issue to first issue and so on. (In defense of Odinson, we have to take into account that this data is only from the US and does not include digital sales. Also, he's been around since the 50s. We could argue Jane was a breath of fresh air that some Marvel fans were indeed ready for. As a non-American, and also a person without a hint of knowledge in economics I cannot take into account inflation and whatever else has prevented or enabled Americans to get their hands on the comics or has affected prizes through the years. Bear that in mind.) Moreover, from what I saw on Comichron, both comics had much competition - God of thunder was released along with Avengers vs the X-men, the Uncanny X-men, pretty popular at the time, and the Goddess of Thunder faced Civil War 2 and DC Universe Rebirth (yes, DC is in the game too), also dominating with tremendous sales for the longest time. Yet I stick with my original statement - both Thors are valid and shouldn't be put against one another regardless of profit. Because at the end of the day what will matter the most is the story. And boy, what a story it is.

Now, I haven't read the Thor: God of Thunder, but as I was doing research I found one very well written summary and explanation of Thor's arc and his becoming unworthy and I will post a link below, because I honestly feel I wouldn't be doing this comic a favor by describing it without having read it. Which I plan to do in the future, tbh. It's a fantastic prelude to the Mighty Thor (2015 - 2018) that I've come to love. First, I'd like to ask you all to stop hating on the comic without having read it first. It doesn't make any sense and being petty for the sake of being petty won't benefit neither you, nor anyone, really. Now, about the comic itself - the art is magnificent. It's just gorgeous. Mighty Thor isn't , thank all the gods, sexualized, she is pretty buffed and generally looks like a warrior. As it is with the other characters, I dare say. The background truly captures the essence of every world Jane finds herself on. Action scenes are just the right amount and balanced with dialogue well. On a side note, it's pretty funny to read/listen to in your head the Shakespearean English cursive in which Jane talks as Thor. The plot line branches beyond this comic, starting from Thor: God of Thunder and leading to the War of Realms. And it is elaborately built in every issue. You don't know what to expect, yet it makes sense when it happens. Which leads me to the characterizations. My God, what a treat Loki is in this. Clearly, my opinion is kinda biased, since he's my favorite character, but you never know which side he's on. What his motivations are. And it just feels so... Loki. His writing is brilliant. Almost makes me forget what the MCU did to him. Also, he gets some daddy time with Laufey (not as kinky as I make it sound). Frigga/Freyja is just as awesome as in the MCU, even more, at least in the comics she calls Odin out on his shit, who btw is I guess an asshole in every version and universe. Malekith, the main villain, is unbearably despicable, I want to tear every page he is on. He really was mishandled in the Dark World, if you want some true action with the dark elves, you are welcome to enjoy. I saved the best for the end - Jane Foster/ Might Thor. Now, if you think Dr. Foster spends her time boasting about her worthiness and how Odinson is just called Thor, but she is Mighty Thor, you are horribly wrong. She just... does her job. Because the hammer chose her. Because there's no one else to do so. That's it. If you think there's some feminism involved, yes, there sure is, but it certainly isn't the reason Jane became Thor in the first place. It was not the creators going SJW because it's trendy, as such a mindset is honestly offensive to any descent creator with any self respect, but a well thought out story arc, which, I repeat, you have to read the comic to understand. Jane is not at all whiny about the hate she gets in-universe, not only from foes like Odin and who-not, but from Shield and generally people whose asses she's saving. Her having cancer is not something they pulled to provoke sympathy and make her look like a victim - on the contrary, she is a damn hero and a victor. I don't want to give out spoilers, but her being Thor is actually a giant sacrifice that no one really appreciates (both in-universe and in the fandom). She is not Thor to prove she can be, or just to prove "women can be heroes" - she doesn't have to. She is simply needed by the realms and so she does her job, even though she is called a thief, persecuted and generally hated. All that matters is that the hammer finds her worthy - the beauty and simplicity of that fact you will find out, for the last time, if you read the comic.

I'm not making you read the comic or watch Thor: Love and Thunder. I myself don't know what to make of this film yet because there's barely any information about it. I only know it will be based on the comic so that's a reason for my hopes to be up already. On the other hand, since I didn't like Loki's characterization in Ragnarok, I'm not sure what to expect from Taika. There are valid reasons to not like the idea of Jane returning to the MCU as Thor, which you are entitled to. However, reasons such as "why does everything have to be political these days" are not. Because if I had to make a list of everything politically related in the MCU, it would take forever. Steve Rogers kills nazis is the most blatant example. Make of it what you want. But I think we're far enough into the 21st century to realize art and real life are not that separable. It's undeniable that art affects people and that is to say, people everywhere. And they all have different opinions and aren't gonna like everything media is offering to them. And I wish I could simply tell you not to watch the movie but I'm a Marvel fan too and I understand that I can't just take away Thor from you because I want Mighty Thor as well. But none of us can stop Marvel from producing it. So, to quote an image I saw recently, I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people. Let the rest of the fandom enjoy what they want to enjoy. Yes, ik I can play around with the tags and avoid posts that unnerve me but, for example, I'm looking up Mighty Thor fanart, which obviously isn't anti-Mighty Thor, yet I get attacked in the comics for anticipating a movie that doesn't even have a full cast yet. Ik I'm not asking for too much when I wish to get the same internet experience (not only tumblr, but also insta, YouTube, Twitter, any site) as the Thor Odison fans, for example. I'm aware I cannot stop all the toxic fans and the trolls but I hope this post has inspired those of you who simply can't envision Jane as Thor, or don't like Natalie Portman in the role, or whatever eles personal preference that doesn't involve political issues and isn't harmful to the community, not to attack every post on your dash with hate. The movie is called LOVE and Thunder, for God's sake. (on a side note, is a franchise that is too afraid to show LGBT characters for more than 1 minute so as to not lose profit from China, THAT politically correct)

Anyway, that was a veeeery long rant, sorry to whoever reads this but, like, please, I put effort into this, hoping this time around I won't be the only positive reviewer of a movie, like I was with Solo: a Star Wars story (yes, I'm still bitter about this), which was boycotted for no apparent reason but was a decent film in reality, and I'm only bringing it up because it has a similar experience to Love and Thunder for getting hate before even being released. I'm not defending a billion dollar company that flopped in box office once, I'm defending the viewer's right to media they are interested in. If you don't like the character, remember - that's your opinion, not a fact that the character sucks. Kudos.

Not very easy to navigate, I advice you to do the research month by month individually for comics you'd like to compare. Also, if you happen to find more reliable data, pls say so in the comments.

Here you have the summary and explanation of the greatness of Thor: God of Thunder, Jesus, I'll go bankrupt if I buy this one too.

Yes, I want to end the sales dispute once and for all, I'm tired of seeing it on my dash. This guy probably explains it better than I did.

@awesomejenlawrence you said you'd like to read this and I delivered

[jinjojess]

I like hearing your opinion though! Most of the "No new DanRon" people I've seen have been on Twitter or Tumblr, and they generally tend to be one of the three types I mentioned, so sorry for leaving out other stances.

I don't necessarily think the business decision being the only reason to continue the series is a good idea, but I do think it's the most probable outcome. Since I know how business works with creative licenses, I'm hoping that we'll get some new life breathed into it and some creativity again.

I find it interesting that you think another killing game scenario would be repetitive and boring, because I think it only would be if Kodaka were involved, or if the new writer were pressured into keeping those things the same. He's essentially presented the same basic game three times (four counting DR3) so for me I feel like there are so many other concepts that could be explored using the aesthetics of the series. You admit that there are fan games you'd be interested in, for instance.

Re: Kodaka, I personally feel really let down by him since I think that DR3 and V3 had way too much wasted potential thanks to all the recycling he insisted on doing. I feel like I define the "DanRon-ness" as something more ephemeral, while maybe you think of it as including the murder patterns or the character archetypes and in-jokes. If that were the case then I'd definitely agree, because having more "chapter 3 double murder chapter 4 sacrifice here's the insecure boy protag and the beefy character and the Komaeda" would be extremely annoying and frustrating.

But I'll take a death game where there's no "get it wrong and everyone is executed" rule so a culprit could get away. A death game with a few different branching paths. A death game making commentary on Japan's fucked up work culture. A death game with a few playable characters at different points so in one playthrough you have to choose what evidence you can collect.

I don't need it to be a death game even. Give me a puzzle/adventure game where you play as a group of detectives doing Duel Noir ala DRK. Give me a tactical game or a Mystery Dungeon where you play as lower-ranking Mirai Kikan characters fighting back against Despair ala Killer Killer. Give me a VN where you play as Shirogane or some other Team DR staff interviewing potential candidates, hiring or dismissing them, and assigning a talent and role to them.

There is still so much potential in the series and the world than what we've seen, and I feel like it's because after the first game where the commentary was about Japanese society, it started getting too self-referential and ended up an ouroboros of self-cliches. It went from talking about real, unique subcultures that exist in Japan and their media counterparts, and it expanded the scope so much that by V3 Kodaka's trying to make some grand statement about all fiction that I personally didn't think was all that revolutionary or interesting (because what can you really say about all fiction as a concept that isn't just really obvious, like "it makes you feel things" or "it's not necessarily true, kind of like lying, if you squint").

And yeah, if you don't care about any other Japanese writers (though I think you're selling yourself short--few in the West knew Kodaka before like 2013 anyway) or learning about culture-specific social critique, I could see why that wouldn't be appealing.

In that case, I think it's fine to just...not play the newer games then.

That's what I mean about not bringing along anyone who doesn't want to see more. If you want to leave the series behind, that's fine, but if other people still want to see what it can do, it's not your call to tell them they shouldn't.

In your case it sounds like a personal decision just regarding you, which I think is well within your rights. I just read the original wording of "should stay in the 2010s" as "I'm done so everyone else should be too."

(Plus I have...opinions on how Reddit fandoms can be. All social media has its own quirks, but I'm still not Over being doubted when I say the DR fandom in Japan is largely female based on Reddit stats.)

it surprises me that you expect spike to announce new DR for the 10th anniversary like it feels everyone in the fandom and their mother wants this series to die and stay in the 2010s or can't imagine it without kodaka and such.. (also the fangames exist that's enough for them)... idk what to think like on one hand I dunno what to think of DR anymore but also would be interesting to have a new team tackle that stuff..

Really? I mean DanRon is one of the most popular IPs SpikeChun holds the rights for, and it’s penetrated into the mainstream in multiple markets, so it seems like a poor business decision to not release something for the anniversary, especially considering what a big To Do they’re making about it. There was not this much build-up to the 5 year anniversary when we got like, a hand towel, haha.

In my experience, people who want the series to end tend to fall into a few categories: people tired of rehashing on Kodaka’s part (in which case removing Kodaka and letting someone else do literally anything other than the same stuff for a fifth time would fix it); people who I feel give V3 way too much credit in thinking it said really profound things it didn’t actually say (or that the original game didn’t already say); and people who find a new interest and move on like a locust plague, claiming whatever they no longer are obsessed with is cringe.

I’m perfectly happy to lose the last two types, personally.

Some people probably can’t imagine the series without Kodaka, and Nate’s probably right in that they’ll pull some “wow, fooled ya!” stuff and still have him involved to some degree, but for myself, I just want to see someone do something actually new and different with the concepts.