#i originally tweeted this on private so it's pretty train-of-thought

[softgrungeprophet]

who wants my thoughts on the way the 2000′s comics tried to remove the gayness of the 90s?

No one?

Too bad, here’s a bunch of half-formulated words

Gonna preface this to say this is not an essay, or on par with an essay; there are no citations or picture examples, it’s just me working through my thoughts, reformatted for clarity from the original twitter thread I made on my private

Part One of Two, or: Eddie is Queer:

I’ve actually changed my mind a little bit on this and I think Eddie is definitely queer in some way (possibly bi) but more specifically, I went from “Flash is queer-coded” to “Flash is extremely deeply situated in several closets” including but not necessarily limited to: the gay one

Part Two: Erasing Queerness from Venom and Demonizing Mental Illness:

I was thinking about early Venom's queer-coding annnnddd....

I wonder if they did Flash, originally, because they wanted to get rid of Eddie. (Subconsciously, most likely, not necessarily so dastardly as "let's get rid of this guy")  

I mean, even before Remender seemingly killed Eddie off in his Agent Venom run (ofc, eddie brock never dies)—

with the Anti-Venom stuff, I mean. It all came out of the cancer+abandonment arc established in those early 2000s Spider-Man comics.

But I mean...Okay.

So, in the 90s, Venom with Eddie Brock was very clearly queer-coded and then just straight up acknowledged in The Hunger, with the Valentine's chocolates and the heart shaped "The End" bubble

Then in the 00s, they re-characterized the symbiote to be abusive, manipulative, and cruel (and ... suddenly very talkative) and separated them from each other

leaving eddie with his cancer and the somewhat upsetting (for me, at least) depiction of his mental illness/depression and suicide attempt in The Last Temptation while the symbiote was? elsewhere.

Then eddie became the evangelical Anti-Venom, loathing the symbiote, who was chemically lobotomized to be with Flash Thompson.

So Eddie Brock, the one who was depicted as adoring their union, was made to hate it and *fear* it, while the symbiote was reduced to a mindless thing with no agency of its own (after having been turned into a cruel monster), and given to Flash, the medal-of-honor war vet and peter's best friend.

(Not a *weirdo* like that Eddie Brock guy)

(sarcasm)

(disclaimer: I love Flash Thompson. I am not hating on him, also he’s probably gay)

I don't want to conspire but I do think that homophobia and queerphobia, whether recognized as such or internalized or whatever, probably had a hand in the early aughts Spider-Man Venom arcs, and probably in the Anti-Venom stuff, at the very least residually.

And Flash is the golden (straight) boy--joke's on them, I can queer anything I touch, like some kind of gay Midas. Flash Ain’t Straight. Like, wow, is that boy not straight.

Anyway I think it’s notable how they attempted to separate these characters, thus removing they gay, but it turns out both halves contributed to the queerness so, big shocker, other forms of Venom stay pretty queer, and Eddie too... stays pretty queer.

ALSO relevant: mental illness stigmas.

Like Eddie, Flash has been shown to be clinically depressed. However, he often expresses it in this kind of (often but not always) outwardly directed, acceptably masculine manner--he has anger issues and he struggles with alcoholism and he lashes out or he broods alone in his apartment. blah blah blah (I do think his story is compelling, but I do also think it is very rooted in heterosexual masculinity)

This is how men are "supposed" to be.

Eddie on the other hand, while often ALSO very masculine in his depression--pushing responsibility onto others, obsessing over vengeance, etc—there is a difference. To me, his depression reads as very inward-facing. He cries openly, has serious internalized self-worth issues and craves physical and emotional contact, and has a history of suicide—traits which are sometimes considered (by hetero-patriarchal standards) "weak" and "pathetic" (ugh) (don't hug, don't show your emotions, don't let anyone see your weaknesses, don't be a coward)

Plus, Eddie's mental illness was used to twist into a kind of big scary monster in The Last Temptation.

And the thing is... that kind of stuff IS scary... can BE very scary, for the person struggling with mental illness, depression, etc.  But their direction with it (Last Temptation in particular) was voyeuristic and weirdly infantilizing, in a way that rubbed me the wrong way. I think it had potential to actually do something valuable and thoughtful but those three arcs of the early to mid 2000s felt... the best way I can describe it is "unkind."

Really the big big big difference feels like Flash’s depression and struggles were treated way more thoughtfully than Eddie’s have ever been.

I didn't really have a clean wrap-up for this thread when I posted it on twitter.

It's just like

In summary:

1) Eddie is queer-coded (also Flash is too)

2) Venom as a relationship is undeniably queer-coded, and I think the early 2000s (subconsciously or fully aware, it's hard to say) saw that and did not like that, and thought (erroneously) that removing the symbiote would remove that symbolism (not taking into account that eddie himself is just as crucial to the queer coding as the symbiote is)

3) The early 2000s did not treat mental illness well, which is not surprising, but still sucks.

  IDK, as mentally ill queer person who's lived in poverty my entire life and whose dad was not there for me (classic, I know), there's a lot about Eddie's (honestly, frequently tragic) story and life that is highly relatable (despite him being a big grumpy man who's wanted by like, the FBI and shit), and I would like to see a mini or series that carefully explores those aspects of his character, for once.

Just something, someday, that deals with Eddie's depression AND queerness AND poverty in an honest and thoughtful way.

I’m not holding my breath, though.