#i mean note that i have separate tags for Cas's evolution and destiel because they may be separate specific things

[mittensmorgul]

The Empty says he'll come for Cas when he's happy and I've been thinking that meant he had a heart to heart with Dean but isn't it more likely that his acceptance of his previous decisions will be what summons the Empty? He feels so much guilt for Heaven and the fall, etc. But he saw the AU and what would have happened if he'd not made his own choices. And we saw how terrified of heaven he is now, that he knows they're all shades of evil. So, maybe self forgiveness is the trigger and not Dean?

eep I have not had enough coffee for this yet… :P

Let’s start with the assumption that Cas is a multidimensional character with issues on a lot of fronts. Dean is not his sole reason for being, and not his sole emotional issue, you know?

That said, he knows the current situation in Heaven. Not only that, he knows that while he’s played a part in Heaven’s earlier problems, he’s been working harder than all the other angels put together trying to fix what’s wrong there– both as a result of his (and other angels’) actions in the past (because remember the whole apocalypse thing was NOT his idea and he has PROOF from GOD that he’s the one who kept trying to do the right thing… by the sheer fact that he was the one repeatedly resurrected, you know?) as well as now.

He’s consistently done everything in his own power to help Heaven, and aside from that one time he’d been partially taken over by the Leviathan and killed swaths of angels in “punishment” as Godstiel and that other time he was lied to and tricked into helping Metatron complete the angel fall spell (because he fully believed it would lock all the angels IN Heaven, not dump them out), Heaven’s problems really aren’t his fault, you know? There’s only so many times one angel can plead to all the others to let the past go, to accept that the world has changed, and that they either need to change with it or die…

Since then he has gone so far out of his way to try to make amends that it’s beyond ridiculous. I mean, I was just watching 11.02 a few hours ago, and even the angel who is probably Cas’s last “friend” in Heaven– Hannah– has played a part in Cas’s torture and manipulation. Cas had asked for help, and was the one angel who had a decent idea of the gravity of the situation with the Darkness, and yet even Hannah was ready to punish him in order to get Sam and Dean’s location out of him. NOT to talk with them and discover what had happened, but to punish and kill them for what they’d done.

There is no reasoning with angels. Cas had accepted that. The next time he asked for Heaven’s help (in 11.22), it was as a direct messenger of God, and he still had to beg, even when he had the authority of God behind him. So what did he really expect from Heaven? When Heaven approached HIM in 12.15, it was under the assumption that he would “repent” for what he’d done and return to them, and abandon his nonsense on Earth and with the Winchesters. But he firmly declared that no, he was doing all of this for the Winchesters. It was Heaven’s insistence they handle Dagon and Kelly their way that led to even more angel deaths.

Then they continued the same sort of campaign in s13– first attempting to kill Jack and then not letting anything stand in their way to capturing Jack to use his powers to “fix” Heaven. Dumah tried to ask for Cas’s help in “convincing” Jack to essentially be their magical little slave, but the truth was that the angels selfishly wanted to use Jack like some sort of battery, and not like a person. Which is honestly horrific.

I think that meeting his alternate version in the AU was more about understanding the differences between what he COULD have been versus what he IS. I don’t think it’s a matter of him realizing that Heaven is “evil” or corrupt or just flat-out wrong. Those were things he already knew. It was more about him being able to take his destiny into his own hands quite literally. Killing his AU self who’d been brainwashed and damaged beyond all recognition, precisely because he was never forced to consider free will, isn’t just about Dean having been the one to keep that door open for him, you know? Yes, the entire process never would’ve begun without Dean, but on every other level that mattered, the choices and actions came down to what Castiel chose for himself. Killing his AU self was entirely about him. They were even alone in that scene, you know? That was about Cas himself facing this. Not about proving Heaven was evil, or would torture him into compliance, or even about the fact that Dean had essentially saved him from that fate. It was about HIM, and what breaking free of Heaven’s control had finally allowed him to become. Which seems like a subtle difference, because yes Dean has been the catalyst (repeatedly, over the last ten years, opening the door in the first place and then continuing to support him to the point where he’s irrevocably become A Winchester himself in every way that matters, through trials and hard times as well as through successes), but the important thing to remember is that Cas could’ve chosen a different path at any point (like he did in s6), and yet over and over he continued to choose free will, even when he wasn’t sure it was the right thing, and even when he didn’t get it quite right. Reducing all of that to be “because Dean” is kinda reductive.

Obviously this summary here is seriously glossing over a lot. This is in no way everything that’s happened here, but just a quick lil refresher leading up to what I’m about to say… which is:

Cas has been making his peace with Heaven, and with himself, for a really long time. He’s even (shockingly) been given a sort of absolution from Naomi of all people, back in 13.19 when she walked him to the door and let him go. Then in 14.08 she acknowledged that Cas’s motives may not have been putting Heaven first in taking the actions he did to save them from the Empty Entity, which in itself is a sort of forgiveness or acceptance of who Cas is, and she also specifically THANKED him.

Naomi, at least (and probably Dumah) are now beginning to understand Cas and the fact he hasn’t been “working against Heaven” all this time, but searching for a better way, balancing the needs and wants of Heaven with the needs and wants of humanity on Earth. Because it’s never been “us or them,” as SO many angels have been convinced of over the years. This is not a black and white issue, on any level.

So when it comes to what could make Cas perfectly happy, what would trigger his deal with the empty, I think it must first and foremost be about Cas himself.

Even having Heaven’s forgiveness and acceptance wasn’t enough to trigger the deal. Even saving Jack wasn’t enough. Even reunited with the Winchesters as a family wasn’t enough. Because while I feel that yes, Dean will of course play a major part in Cas achieving that happiness, because Dean has ALWAYS been the major trigger for ALL of Cas’s growth over the years, it wouldn’t be as simplistic as some romantic declaration, you know? Because Cas as a character is so much more than that.

But since you asked me what I thought of this, I’m gonna tell you.

I’m not entirely sure it will ever come to this. I’m not sure they won’t find some other resolution to Cas’s deal before it comes to them laying out Cas’s happiness trigger on the table that blatantly, you know?

Not to mention, this is the sort of speculation I personally hate, because it’s based on the assumption that we’re looking at this from the right direction. And we literally have no way to know if we’re somehow obsessing over the entirely wrong thing, or interpreting it correctly.

Right now, this entire question and response is grounded on unstable foundations. It’s nothing more than a theoretical exercise, because we have no way to know what will actually be important by the end of the season. I can suggest that thematically and from a character perspective this will come down to Cas’s choices and his own opinion of himself, and that Dean will likely play a role as a catalyst in making his choice. But outside of that… I’m not even sure if the rest of this will ever actually be relevant in the first place. Because we’ve made the ASSUMPTION that we’re correct in believing this must come down to some sort of confrontation between Cas and the Empty, or that we will definitively have a singular moment of Absolute Happiness with unqualified certitude that it was One Singular Thing that sparked Cas’s doom. And that’s just… not how this works. At least not from the speculation side of things.

I mean, this is an interesting question from a purely theoretical standpoint, because it was interesting enough to me to spend the last two hours typing this nonsense up. But outside of this reply having been an interesting thought exercise for me, I don’t think there’s really any conclusion to be made. I think the question is unanswerable, because we don’t even know yet if canon will bear it out as a valid question in the first place, you know?

I really hope that makes sense. It’s just frustrating to me that there’s even this hemming and hawing over speculation like this, as if it has to be Destiel or Not-Destiel, and those are the only two valid assumptions going forward. Because that assumption negates all of this ^^, that yes of course it is all about Cas and his choices and being able to forgive himself and hopefully understand himself enough to make those choices about who and what he wants to be, but you literally cannot divorce Dean’s presence in Cas’s life and his influence in every one of Cas’s choices over the last almost 11 years from what Cas inevitably will choose for himself. 

I’m not saying that Cas will choose xyz thing because of Dean’s influence (hur hur), or because Dean pushed him into choosing it. Cas’s story arc is still primarily about HIM, just like Dean’s is primarily about Dean, and Sam’s is primarily about Sam. That’s how main characters function in a narrative, you know? But they also don’t function in a vacuum. What makes up the narrative is how each of the characters relate to the others, and how all of their choices are influenced by and consequently affect the others.

So at the very root, I think the question is looking to establish some false duality that it must be one or the other thing, that one of these things will be The Truth™ and will therefore negate or invalidate the other. And that’s just… not how this works. I think that really does a disservice to Castiel as a character, reducing him to a plot device when this has literally been his character arc since s4, made essential to the ongoing narrative structure since at least s8