#i haven't been able to answer this question myself and am starting to think theres a reason why it rarely happens
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A lot of the time in fiction, the hero wonāt kill the adversary, because it morally protects the hero to not kill out of vengeance, no matter how well deserved. Even if the hero is a trained killer, they rarely actually kill the bad guy. I believe that as soon as a main character has a history with the villain, they are under a moral obligation to not be the one that directly kills the other.
Most of the time, thatās fine.
Spoilers below for Mistborn 1-3 and all of Stormlight
(Vin is an exception to this. Vin killed everybody. Elend, though, didnāt -- he was morally protected, except in the case of headless Jastes. There were lots of nameless enemies killed by both, but Vin got to Shan Elariel, the Lord Ruler, Zane, Straff, Ati...)
In Stormlight, though, the heroes donāt get to kill their bad guys. Take Dalinar. The conflict between Dalinar and Sadeas throughout books 1 and 2 made me think that if Sadeas was going to die, it would be at Dalinarās hand. Instead, Adolin acted impulsively, and now Dalinar doesnāt have to worry about Sadeas, and also doesnāt have the blood of his former friend on his hands, either.
Then thereās Amaram. This one still bothers me.
I had thought from TWoK that Amaramās life was Kaladinās to take. How satisfying it would have been, to see that crembag brought down by the person he tried to destroy! I was sure we would get that moment in Oathbringerā¦
...And thatās not how it played out. Instead of Kaladin, Rock gets to take out that garbage and gets the gratification of ridding Roshar of the worst villain ever written (I have very deep loathing for Amaram).
Granted, Rock was protecting Kaladin, and I donāt believe he has lost anything by killing Amaram. Then again, this justifies my question, since Rock was in battle, was protecting his men, and had no history with Amaram that would make what he did, seem like vengeance. Kaladin was different.
Both of the characters I want to focus on, Kaladin and Dalinar, are warriors. Theyāve killed before. Many times. They have no moral ground about killing when it matters. Why, then, didnāt either of them get to kill their antagonists?
For Dalinar, I can accept the argument that killing Sadeas might have been a questionable decision. After all, Sadeas was a political manipulator, and perhaps thatās grounds for limiting power instead of taking his life. Throw the eel into prison, take away his titles, his leverage. Fighting deviousness with murder is arguably excessive. Dalinar needed to become a leader, not a conqueror. That was part of his arc. Alright, fine.
But Kaladin not killing Amaram...well, it bothers me. Their fight was during a battle, Amaram HAD to be killed, it could absolutely be called protection, self-defense, to take the guy down, heād swallowed that gem and had an Unmade in him...All of that ON TOP OF the fact that he absolutely deserved to die in a ditch because of what heād already done to Kaladin. (Seriously, if Oathbringer had started with āhuh, Amaram just got caught in a highstorm/eaten by a chasmfiend/run over by several chulls offscreenā, I would have cheered.)
As soon as those two started fighting, though, it made sense that Amaram would fall to Kaladin.
Would it have been morally beneath Kaladin? Nope. Would it have made Kaladin less of a hero, less admirable in some way? Absolutely not. Would it have broken his oaths? I donāt see how.
Without Book 4, Iām admittedly a bit in the dark. Under Unkalaki tradition, a nuatoma who gains a Shardblade becomes king, so Rock is probably king now. It wasnāt clarified that this is the case in Oathbringer, though, and Rock did act outside of his cultural role in using the Shardbow, so Iām not certain that the outcome is absolute. If it is, then there will be much more on this ahead, and Rockās taking Amaramās life will be explained and justified later. Right now, Iām focusing on why it wasnāt Kaladin. I mean, he could have killed Amaram and given a Blade to Rock, to reach the same outcomeā¦ but again, Iām out of my depth, not knowing what is to come.
The question I have is, when does the hero get to kill the villain? Is it ever acceptable, for a morally upright character? Do they always lose something if they take the antagonistās life?
#these questions are purely literary#im interested in the writing decision and the consequences#i haven't been able to answer this question myself and am starting to think theres a reason why it rarely happens#as much as i want to see the good guys kill the bad guys#maybe it is almost never justified#would love to hear thoughts on this#spoilers#mistborn#stormlight#writing analysis#cosmere#also the image of Amaram being trampled by slow-moving chulls makes me laugh#when does the protagonist get to kill the antagonist and why?
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Im still fucking fighting, i keep telling myself im not gonna let go & Fuck everyone else who thinks I should. But sometimes there's the opposite, im just lost & idk what to do....hes not gonna come back...so why should I bother to keep fighting š If someone asks me...
Are they worth it? Absolutely. Because theres always room for improvement & growth, & we've been doing that apart for ourselves now for 7months. Did they give u the respect and attention u deserved? Are we not more valuable than that? Hell no & hell yes lol. Look I was happy just doing that for him but yea when it came to me honestly it was like nah im good š & i know how fucked up it is that id go along with his selfishness but I did. I did deserve better & he knows I did... i just didnt wanna lose him & did anything he needed me for... but I ended up losing him anyway š theres a reason why u work on that kinda shit & grow together as you go so everyone is happy, its fair to say we both lost sight...I was eager to learn everything about him cuz I wanted to be closer...but I was blocked out & pushed away, he wouldn't open up & talk to me or show feelings for anything, even of me when he used to all the time...like he was scared of being too attached or didnt want to get hurt..he didnt trust me or was afraid to show his true self or show any emotion that'd be viewed as weak due to the typical be a man complex. Idk I was confused & didnt know what was needed to help fix things so yea i walked on eggshells & me showing affection of my own free will was out of the question most of the time...I couldn't touch him unless he wanted me to & rare occurrences for my own satisfaction. Its the reason why I cried all the damn time, I felt avoided & unwanted because my own attention lacked pretty badly. How tf do I love a fucknugget bobblehead like that lmao, cuz I dont give 2 flying fucks he was my man ok! & being close enough to him made me happy enough I guess, I still looked at him like he was my world even if I wanted to slap him for making me feel so lonely at the same time. I admit his needs came b4 mine, he liked it more that way & I took care of him more than I did myself. But if he had more effort to take care of my needs in turn & I were happier than I was, & us happy at the same time, then maybe I wouldn't be so hard on myself...cry all the time & smoke like a chimney š
I still don't fully understand why he held back, communicating with me on a deeper level is supposed to be natural & pretty much all normal couples show an appropriate amount of affection & understanding to eachother....but it was kept burried...was he afraid id hate him, judge him, make fun? No, id love him even more! Idc how dark he may think he is or whatever past bs he's gone through or even if he was lying about anything...its okay it can't hurt u anymore dear & we can overcome it just tell me what it is thats lacking & let's fix this. Id say "sit down babe, tell me everything, whats on your mind, what can I do to help š" & id give him the most gentle kiss on the forehead. I'd do anything to see a smile from that face & it makes me smile too. I want to help him, he needs somebody to hold just as much as I do cuz the fact of the matter is babe, he's just as broken as I am, we both need someone to put back our pieces & become whole again...after we try doing it solo it can only go so far b4 u want that physical presence of another again to help u more so. He keeps everything bottled up & especially didnt let me see what was happening to him I had no clue, if he didnt like talking to anyone he at least had me but still kept me away from him, whatever it was festered in him & he changed his whole demeanor toward me, he became colder & shut me out for good š Making me feel even more unwanted. We didnt help eachother through our problems & I really wanted to, I wanted to save us for the longest time way b4 the end. Idk maybe if he put in as much effort & we knew how to function better together instead of a Corolla with just 2 wheels then we'd probably be fine...& our suspension wouldn't be dragging on the asphalt š Its not all on him for fault, I take equal amount of responsibility, we failed eachother, we didn't know wtf we were doing & 9/10 it was just friends with benefits with only 1 of us in love & attached, & the other not really caring with side pieces to chat with š¤·āāļø
U know what š¤¬ They're right, he's right, & now I'm actually starting to accept it the more I write. Maybe just maybe,HE DOESN'T DESERVE ME AT ALL. Im still upset and frustrated. To answer the question again from earlier no maybe he's not worth it. I suffered through his bs and 10fold heartbreak afterward!! If he can't own up, right his wrongs & bring us both peace then no he's not worth suffering for afterall, and ive been loving the wrong soul this whole damn time š£ He kicked me to the curb cuz he a fucking coward! He cant admit his wrongdoings, ask for forgiveness, say im sorry or actually put the tiniest bit of effort into a relationship to make it work, but instead disposes of me so he wouldn't have to confront any of it & just continue on like nothing happened are fucking kidding me!!?? I thought u were smarter than this, its beneath you to just run away & pretend I never mattered to you when we both know I did!!!....& im crying again. Im still feeling the betrayal apparently, ill never be able to trust him fully again anyway, let alone other men now. I dont hate you, I love you very much. But I hate the evil from you that you've shown me. I should've known honestly, I was naive to see all types of disrespect but this was the worst part. I still love him but i do deserve better than that & I hope he's changed his ways. Trust a guy with a high track record of ladies & a handful of em in their hand..what u think š¤ can trust be gained back? Can I get over the bad uncalled for lying shit he's said about me to other women to make himself look better? Idk š¤·āāļø I haven't been able to rest without closure for so long, but enough is enough im making my own. You're absolutely right, you'd just manipulate me further, I thought maybe we could be better than before...round 2 at some point in the future...but maybe we're not salvageable after all. Thats up to u, I did everything I could, but now if u were to ever come back idk if I'd jump into your arms or slam the door in your face, I just dont know. Its better that I try never speaking of u again, or think of you for as long as I can so that I can heal better....cuz loving you even after the fact is tearing me apart & making me lose focus on what matters more, myself. I fought valiantly as long as I could, 7 months is a long time to not shut up about u lol.. maybe you've been hearing me I wouldn't know. I have to force it or ill never be able to, ill still silently grieve but as much as it hurts, Its time. U were my rock, an asshole but a good one, the best gamer I got to know, a boss at alot of things, with the cutest lil butt, & somehow the love of my life. Other than maybe something valentines or anniv related in Feb ofcourse....Ur getting what u wanted, I have to do whats best for me now, I have to let u go. I held on for so long but Im really tired & emotionally drained, im just torturing myself when i need to stop, im defeated, nobody won anything, everyone got hurt in 2020 why should our relationship be any different, id say we gave it our all be we both know we didnt. This hurts me so much to do, like my heart is breaking again. Bye babe, I love you with all my heart. šš š
I tried to do what I could but if he left, I just gotta try to move on. If I take him back, I gotta consider how that's gonna look like & if I really got past the damage he did....obviously theres some I still haven't š Its what im telling myself while trying to move past this. Others going through the same...We're in love and they ain't. We can't control their actions but we can control our actions. Im not a toxic person..only to myself, I love with all my heart, nobody bothers to understand...they just judge
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Conversation
Phone Interview with CFGF CEO Isaiah Oliver
Me (M): Hey there Isaiah, I hope things have been well for you and the family. Thank you for finding the time to speak to me today.
Isaiah (I): Yeah of course, everyone is great. We're all wishing you the best in Indy too!
M: So getting right into it, something I hear a lot when talking to people about what I'm studying is "what is philanthropy?". What is philanthropy to you?
I: Most people think philanthropy is just fundraising and donating money. A lot of people like to use the definition of "donating your time, talent, and/or treasure to your community". To me philanthropy is bigger than that. It encompasses the selfless relationships we build in an effort to reshape the world to help those who need it most.
M: Wow I've never heard of it being explained that way, I love that. With philanthropy being such a nuanced field I have to wonder, how did you find out about it?
I: Honestly, I just fell into it. I was born and raised in Flint. This community is my family. It is where I wanted to raise my kids. After [my wife] Shay got pregnant we were talking about where to send our baby to school. Naturally I said they would go to Flint schools, but she argued that they weren't the best and our baby deserved the best. That's what every parent thinks, ya know? It made me think about how our child did deserve the best and so did my neighbors child and their neighbors child and all the other little boys and girls growing up in Flint. I wanted my kids to go to school in Flint like I did and have the best like they should, so I joined the school board. From there my engagement with different organizations around town grew and I started my own non-profit, The Literacy Network. It was through the Literacy Network that I got connected with the Community Foundation (CFGF). They were supporting my work and I got more involved so when they gave me the opportunity to increase my impact I took it, and now here I am.
M: That's amazing. You saw something you wanted to change and just went for it, super inspiring. So now that you've been working in the field for a while, what would you say is the biggest misconception people tend to have about philanthropy?
I: Kind of like I said earlier, people just think philanthropy is a bunch of old white dudes sitting together and making decisions about where to spend tons of money. I also think a big misconception is that you have to have a lot of money to be philanthropic.
M: What would you say a typical day at work looks like for you?
I: I haven't had a typical day since I started! Every day is completely different. I can go from in office work, lunch meetings, strategic meetings with my team, spontaneous meetings with visitors, you just never know. My work revolves around people and people are always changing so my schedule has to adapt in that same way.
M: Sounds like you'll never be bored. Can you recall a time in your career thus far where you really felt like you were making a difference?
I: My work gives me purpose. If at any point I didn't think I was being a positive light to my community, I would have to change things. With that being said, if I tried to pinpoint one really meaningful thing I'd have to say the EduCare building we funded. It is one of the highest preforming early education centers in the state and one of the few that exist in the country at this time, and it's right here in Flint.
M: That's amazing! Definitely something these kids deserve. So I can't imagine being a CEO of anything is easy. What skillsets do you think a person would need to do your job well?
I: I know people say you can't actually multitask, but in this job you have to. My mind is constantly thinking about what I'm doing, going over what I've done, and getting started on what's to come all at the same time. With how quickly things move and change around the community you have to be able to keep up. There's also a tiny bit of "It-Factor". You can be the most organized, efficient, and proactive person, but if you aren't personable and friendly, if people can't connect with you, they won't want to connect to your cause.
M: So we've highlighted some amazing parts of your work, but what would you say is your favorite part of the job?
I: I'm a people person. I thrive when I'm collaborating. I don't think theres another job that exists that better blends my passions and strengths.
M: Fair enough. On that note, what would you say is your least favorite part of your job?
I: Hmm, let me think. I don't want to get myself in trouble! I guess if I had to pick something I'd say it can be kind of exhausting to always be seen as Isaiah Oliver, CEO of CFGF and not just Isaiah Oliver, cool dude with the sick sneakers, haha. I'm just so immersed in the community in a ton of different ways that sometimes I have to remind myself to just be a part of everything on a personal level.
M: I can only imagine the social battery you must have! One last question because I know we're running out of time here, where do you see the world of philanthropy going in the next 10 years?
I: Man if I knew that I'd be running things! But really, these days with the countries political climate and the impact the media has on shining light on injustices, what has become the clearest to me is the mobilization of youth activists. Kids your age, and even younger are really standing up and getting themselves a seat at really big tables. I think you have more of an answer to that question than I do.
M: Thank you so much for talking with me today. Everything you've said really widened my perspective and helped me understand what I'm hoping to get myself into soon.
I: Any time, and good luck with your studies. We can't wait to have you back in Flint.
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