#i genuinely think that we didn't lose anything significant without suraya but i also feel the same about amanda

[thefirstknife]

True, but only because they were given more characterisation. Suraya really hasn't been touched since vanilla, while everyone else was given plenty of time to shine and multiple seasons worth of content. Both Devrim and Suraya would've been up there if they got the same attention.

But on that note, Suraya and Zavala have plenty of material together. She already participated in a massive invasion of Earth before and was an instrumental element of our victory. She fought side by side with Guardians in the field and has experience in the matter. Zavala literally called her a Guardian, and reinforced it in Guardian Games when she participated alongside Zavala. As in, they literally did activities together.

"Thought it was 'only for Guardians.'"

"Semantics," Zavala said. He stood over a map laid out on a wooden table. "And that was before you pushed us into the lead for Lost Sector clearance." He pointed at a place on the map. "What do you think? Our next point of attack."

She also decided to participate for Titans:

"Right." Hawthorne grinned. "You know, maybe 'we' Titans have this thing in the bag."

"Oh, we do," Zavala said, studying the map. "We most certainly do."

She led the Vanguard into the City for the final assault and made plans with them directly. She was involved with saving people and escorting and protecting refugees during the Red War.

She was compared to Guardians multiple times by different people:

The one with Zavala was while she was fighting with him side by side in the middle of a sieged city and after she saved his life. Like, he was about to be crushed by a Legionary and she blew the enemy's head off.

This woman would not immediately jump into action to protect the City and Earth from an invasion? :

No shot. If anything, the story with Amanda in Defiance is a rehash of Suraya's story from the Red War. Imo, it would've been more fitting to expand on Suraya instead of repeat basically the same thing but with a different character.

Also important to note that Suraya is Devrim and Marc's adopted daughter. Eva's assessment which pretty much entirely fits within this season's story and embodies the word "defiance":

Suraya Hawthorne is, in my mind, the definition of doing what you think is right regardless of the consequences. She knew it was right to help struggling families, she knew it was right to not put Devrim and Marc in harm's way, and she knew it was right to give them some peace of mind by staying close. That is the kind of true courage I have always admired.

She is mentioned as being frequently in contact with her dads so neither of them mentioning her during an invasion on their home is out of character. Her relationship with Zavala and Devrim could've been expanded to be equally interesting, since she already has strong ties to both of them. Her story could've fit perfectly in a season about the Earth being invaded by Shadow Legion, given her expertise the last time Earth was invaded by effectively the same force.

But if there were some technical constraints or some other reasons like availability of her VA/willingness to recast her (which is understandable!), I think she at the very least deserved to be mentioned a single time in a lore tab or a voice line or a bounty text. Her existence was literally not acknowledged at all. Devrim did not make a single comment or expressed worry or questioned how she's doing experiencing the same thing that happened 5 years ago.

The only thing Amanda has over Suraya is her ties to Crow, which I believe is the crux of the issue in a lot of different ways and which is a whole other conversation. But even with Crow, Suraya could've filled basically the same slot for him and perhaps even better. They just had a throwback to how Uldren used to be a spotter for a sniper in a tab about Crow and Devrim; who else is a sniper? Suraya. They could've added more of that with for example the fact that Suraya has a bird and Uldren used to keep birds. And Crow is also obviously tied to birds. Suraya could've been an equally good mortal human friend to Crow as Amanda.

The point is that the potential for more depth in these other relationships also exists, if one were to choose to write about them and expand on them. But they were not chosen, which is not a huge problem on its own; as I said, Suraya's story is over and we're not in dire need of any new answers about her. But the same can be said for Amanda. Expanding on Amanda was a choice they made. That choice could've been made for Suraya as well.

I don't find this a huge problem overall, but it's definitely something that's on my mind as very odd. Again, the potential is there and the ties and relationships are there as well. And I'm most certainly confused about zero mentions of Suraya in a season where her dad features prominently for the first time in 5 years. This just doesn't track for me at all and I actively consider it a minor blunder. The rest is simply me thinking about a possible different way this season could've played out without compromising the rest of the characters involved or the rest of the plot. Genuinely nothing much would have to be changed to swap the two characters. Purely speculative look into another option for this season and what could've been told differently!

I think they're quietly writing Hawthorne out of the game with how the past few years, the community treated her as the "Clan meme dialogue vendor" :(

Honestly, yeah, feels like she will remain just a vendor.

To be fair, Suraya's story is over for all intents and purposes, but on the other hand so was Amanda's. None of these characters HAVE to return and do things actively in the game anymore, but they CAN. We're not exactly losing any important plot threads if she's not in the game, but it's also a shame because she could be used as a side character the same way Amanda was!

Especially in Defiance. I honestly think that Suraya would've been a better choice rather than Amanda. Devrim is there so she can work alongside her dad! Marc is frequently mentions so there's a family story and they're all mortal humans so there's the whole danger they tried to convey with Amanda. Suraya is also much more closely connected to running heroic operations in the EDZ in the middle of a war; it's what she's famous for. Suraya going off in the field makes more sense than Amanda, the pilot, doing so.

And ultimately, while I don't want Suraya to die, Suraya dying and being hinted at becoming a Guardian makes more sense. Suraya was shown multiple times as being close to Guardian values. Zavala called her a Guardian in the Red War! And she asked to participate actively in Guardian Games, which Zavala allowed! Now that the season is over, obviously we didn't get Amanda to become a Guardian... for now. But the possibility exists for that to happen at some point, if they want to do it. It would, again, make more sense with Suraya. Especially if they're so desperate to remove her. The only issue is her status as a vendor.

There could be a lot of reasons to go with Amanda rather than bring back Suraya, a lot of which are about resources and technical problems so I understand. But I definitely don't understand not giving Suraya a nod in the lore this season. Truly odd.