#i gave up on the last achievements for P3P :')

[vermiliondrug]

I told myself to stop the torture, so I finished P3P and now installing P4G and I-

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

K now you got me curious about that. I kinda assumed P5MC would’ve been stronger then P4 MC (P3MC beats them both no doubt from me) so why do you say that P4MC is stronger?

Was gonna make a separate post when I had time but now is a time as any XU (btw I still dunno why people think P5MC is stronger, is it cause of the gym? His Phantom Thieving? The gun? Stanael’s gun? The Yaldy scene? I really wanna read people’s reasons but I have a feeling it’s those and.....if that’s it then no one is paying attention to poor P4MC then ;w;)

So that post was more lore driven than gameplay driven just a heads up (gameplay it’s a lot more complicated because we have to look at like.....a bunch of different entries and lay down ground rules for those, cause like P3P!MC/FeMC vs P4MC vs P5MC is.....a lot more fair considering the former can’t use fusions due to them being items....assuming we can’t use items). Just want to clarify before I explain what I mean is lore wise (I’ll compare the Personas down below but I’ll try to keep it from crossing to much into the gameplay meta line). And this is excluding Royal/Scramble (cause....not everyone knows that stuff yet, and I need to reevaluate things myself and I just haven’t been able to yet XU). But man, people really do underestimate P4MC ;w;

Now then, without Personas they are probably about even, like if they got into a fist fight they could probably end in a tie (but my money is still on P4MC if I had to choose cause he gets back up). P4MC seems to be taller (by a few in) and a more buff build, while P5MC is more of a slim build (but is probs more agile). And this is regardless if they are in the Metaverse, TV World, or the Real World (cause he should get an outfit in the Metaverse, plus Personas seem to give the user great physical strength regardless if it’s a Metaverse setting or not). That being said, P5MC does have akido(?), but it’s self trained and that’s if he goes to the gym. But, P4MC trains with Chie (which he probably did cause they all probs maxed their SLs/CoOps, but Ren might not have gone to the gym), and also stays in shape thanks to 1) fighting Shadows and 2) his sports club SL (this is assuming we are only looking at their school time selves, Adult!P4MC is unknown atm), so it’s not like he’s out of shape himself. P4MC also has crazier and bigger fish too (also needed to complete an SL), so that could be deemed as a work out compared to P5MC’s fishing. 

If we’re looking at initial Personas (which is what they are most likely gonna run with cause of how the spinoffs handle P4/5), P4MC has the upper hand thanks to resisting Dark (aka curse) (btw Minato/Hamu would probs go down first in an initial only Persona fight, cause they’d be weak to P5MC and then P4MC could/would probs beat P5MC thanks to resisting the other’s attack).

Ultimate Persona is a bit more....I wouldn’t say even, but there’s strengths and weaknesses to both sides. Satanael has the upper hand with a “survive one attack” ability, resists everything but almighty, heatriser, and can harm INO via physical (and maaaaybe psy/nuke...it’s unclear how Atlus wants to treat INO in this regard). INO has better stats (and can achieve better stats than Satanael), can deal BIG almighty damage (thanks to mine charge, Satanael doesn’t have a charge), and while he doesn’t resist Light/Dark/Alimighty he does have a big evasion ability. I’d say INO could also be hit by PSY and Nuke thanks to PQ2 (which still makes no sense???? why didn’t they add resist in those categories to all the other ult Personas ??? XP) but P5R shows INO resisting those now so we gonna go with that....because that makes more sense (it makes sense for them to resist Psy and Nuke because they resist all elemental damage but since those didn’t exist, you could assume they could resist it cause it falls under elemental damage...but PQ2 fudges it up for some reason XP), I mean P5R also made him more of a beast since it seems like INO resists Phys too but I won’t include that. I mean if you wanna say he can be hit by Nuke fine, one more thing INO can be hit with....BUT INO also has a ult attack and Satanael doesn’t. Which, while Satanael and INO could be going toe to toe for awhile, INO might be able to deliver the final blow that Satanael can’t. 

Which leads into why....P4MC should win. He’s just shown he’s stronger in his stories. He wins because of his own power that made him stronger. P5MC doesn’t win via his own power. He wins because he receives outside help more often than not (which isn’t bad, I’m not saying having help is bad, but in a hypothetical 1v1....it doesn’t bode well for him). Against Yaldy he got a freaking buff from the cognitive world....A TEMP BUFF MIND YOU! THANKS TO COGNITION! It’s such BS! Yes, P3/4MC they received their power because of their bonds, their connections, MC’s are their friends’ power as much as they are power for the MC’s. P3/4MC could only get that strong because of their friends. It’s because of their own effort and will to protect the ones they care about is the reason they win......P5MC it’s because of the public cheering for them for like 5 min for a temp buff cause of cognition (and it def doesn’t continue to last cause of how the meter goes down to 50% later irl). Even with cognition on P5MC’s side, it’s probably not a whole lot to actually do anything beneficial for him like with Yaldy. P3/4 is about power of friendship and relationships. P5 is about the power of convenience and plot devices. Buncha bullshit that he gets handed the World Arcana like that, not even his own power saved the world (he doesn’t even have a World Arcana Persona! No one ever talks about that what’s P5MC’s World Persona?! P4 has INO, P3 has a finger 8U What’s P5′s????)

There’s also the fact P4MC can use Myriads of Truth outside of Izanami, and it can hurt people outside of her too (we know this thanks to Arena). Satanael can’t use his Sinful Shell (at least at this point in time, watch Atlus jk my post when Arena 3 comes out, I’m already prepared for it >8V I bet Atlus’ reason won’t even make sense because->) because it’s only used in the 100% cognition scene! Satanael can only be that powerful and can only use that move thanks to cognition! But you see, P4MC is Mr. Bond Master, he’s strong cause of his bonds, every handshake with a new person=him getting more powerful (half jk). 8U But this drive also shows that even if he loses a fight, he gets right back up because he wants to protect his friends (as seen post-Liz fight in Liz’s route in Arena). Like this is a big thing P4MC has that I think people overlook, this bastard has A LOT of willpower. Whenever that word is brought up, only Tatsuya (you know defying time and reality to keep his memories) and P3MCs (staying alive for like two months to keep their promise) are ever mentioned (and don’t get me wrong, those are amazing feats too! All three/four, FeMC/P3MC are technically two people, of these people deserve the top 3 will power spot), but gd P4MC has it too. After getting his ass handed to him by Liz, he got right back up and was like “round two!” and power starts to flow through him that it takes Liz aback! Or his most amazing feat, coming back from the freaking underworld (aka basically death), just will his ass right back in front of Izanami and then Izanami is unable to freaking kill him (he hangs onto 1 HP like a boss, hell if he can do this against P3MC it’s possible for him to even come out on top of that fight). Izanami literally says “can the will of so few surpass that of all mankind?!” His (and IT’s) determination is one that surpasses all of mankind! Compare that to P5MC, who defeated Yaldy because of his bond with his CoOps-oh wait no it’s cause of a BS temp power buff the public gave him my mistake. P3/4: “We know what’s best for mankind! And it’s not freaking death! Our will power will surpass mankind!” P5: “Y-yeah same! But we’re gonna not succeed on our own and get bailed out by the public, only for them to half revert back to their same old ways despite....changing for us for a hot second...wait what?” 

P4MC (depending on where in the timeline we have him and P5MC facing off), he’s had more experience too. Not only has he beaten 7ish gods/god avatars (to P5MC’s.......looking at all the P5 entries and without spoilers....possibly 3ish/4ish gods/godly avatars/god level stuff), he’s also faced off with 2 robots and what is basically a super soldier (aka Sho), he’s also fought against a lot of SEES who are seasoned fighters and had ult personas vs his initial persona (and won in some cases, or held his own A LOT, depends on the timeline/route). Oh and has fought more VR people/the VR people more times (P4/G, PQ1, PQ2, and...maybe Arena/Ultimax depends on the route). While P5 is catching up (kinda, we aren’t comparing how a lot of those final battles were won with the final blow), P4MC still has the most experience. 

The only way P5MC can win if it’s 1V4+, P5MC has access to the VR and can use multiple Personas and P4MC can’t, P5MC has 100% cognition on (not possible, and would be a real ass pull), P4MC is crippled beyond belief (even then I’d still expect him to win cause he doesn’t give up). 

So yeah. P4MC has more willpower, his Personas seem to have an advantage (either elemental advantage with initial, or stat+final blow for Ult), and doesn’t get up/gets right back up after a beating (so even if P5MC gets P4MC down to 0 hp, its possible P4MC will get right back up without the need of a skill like P5MC). 

That being said I need to reevaluate some stuff with Royal. I still think P4MC is stronger tho (but I think P3MCs are the strongest, that being said P4/5MC haven’t been put in a situation where they need to die to protect everyone, aka get the universe arcana, so I wouldn’t 100% count them out because I think P4/5MC have the potential to go as far as the P3MCs if need be...well....def P4MC.....not sure about P5MC he still needs to prove himself imo). 

[foolmoontrash]

LONG PERSONA CANON-RELATED POST AHEAD FAM SORRY IN ADVANCE

hwecqi replied to your post“By cameo I mean it is...

So when you’re saying we’re getting lots of non canon games despite them officially being called it sorta makes it weird to argue that point

hwecqi replied to your post“hwecqi replied to your post“By cameo I mean it is a full part of the...”

I mean, to a degree I agree with you, but when it's produced by the company that owns it, and all the teams internally recognize the canon of it (P4DAN is definitely rendered canon given the Kanami references in P5 for example) it's kinda hard to say it isn't canon. Of course you can accept whatever you want canon wise but that sorta dodges what's considered official.

hwecqi replied to your post“By cameo I mean it is a full part of the game for sure, but it's not...”

They generally continued the P3 lore by showing Mitsuru and the others with the Shadow Operatives as well as elaborating on where they went over the years after P3, and P4's spinoffs add more to what happens past the golden ending of the game

hwecqi replied to your post“l m fao sorry fam, followers are dropping like flies after that little...”

Was anyone actually attacking p3p though?

So, last thing I’m going to say about all this, because this is getting really tiring: 

This whole canon debate is a Catch-22, and really effects P3P even if it isn’t directly brought up. By saying that P4A, P4AU, PQ and P4DAN are all canon, as a company you have to acknowledge that P3P is canon too, because all of these games are doing the same thing at their core: expanding on an already established story line. That’s all these games are doing: “continuing the lore” as you so eloquently put it. What really gets me is when you have P4G - which does everything that P3P did, including introducing a female character specifically for the portable version - it’s accepted as canon, but P3P is still thrown under the proverbial bus. Marie and Theo are completely accepted into the cast, but where’s Minako in the official artwork? In merchandise? Hardly anywhere. A keychain, maybe. A calendar. But that’s it. Bottom line: you can’t claim that one game is not canon as a company while the rest are because they’ve been successful. That’s not how things work.

Again, me personally: I dislike the spinoffs, specifically because:

PQ turns everyone into the stereotypical, overly-exaggerated versions of themselves (Aki and Shinji in particular) for laughs. While P4DAN is a “just-for-fun” kind of game, too, at least everyone is in character, not a caricature of themselves.

P4A, P4AU do not contribute anything for me storywise. They just don’t. If you gave me those games with 100+ hours of in-depth, well-written gameplay, I’d be on board. But it didn’t happen. They were boring, hastily done, and I don’t like them.

P4DAN is a great game on its own, and it’s cute. But again, it doesn’t expand on the story. It’s just fluff. Filler.

To me, they’re not canon. I don’t accept them as true Persona games. They’re farcical compared to what the main titles of the series have achieved. I don’t have to like them, but they’re canon to ATLUS. That’s the argument I’m making here. Which is why I’m bringing up P3P because dammit, it’s just not fair. P3P really improved P3, JUST LIKE FES DID. P3FES IS CONSIDERED CANON RIGHT? SO WHY? ISN’T? P3P?

Also, what’s “official” and what’s “canon” are two totally different things. We get the word “canon” thanks to the Bible:

canon: a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine."the formation of the biblical canon"

While Catholics believe the apocrypha is a definitive part of the Bible, other denominations don’t consider it canon. See what I mean?

P3P is definitely official, but it isn’t canon according to ATLUS. And this new game, Blaz Blue: Cross Tag Battle may be an official Arc System game (not even sure what ATLUS’s involvement is at this point, but it most certainly isn’t an official title), but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be canon, especially with the cross-over element from different franchises. 

TLDR; THIS NEW GAME LOOKS STUPID, I’M SICK OF P4, JUST MAKE P3 AND P5 STUFF FROM NOW ON KAY BYE