#i feel. very called out by many of siffrin’s problems

[apple-onigiri]

hi can you talk more about your reading of siffrin and loop's relationship please. I'm so curious 👀

(omg hii i love your analyses)

well i guess now i gotta huh!! the demons (the people on my computer) are telling me to do it, do it, do it, so here it is!! most of it below a cut! because this ended up being really really long!

so! self-love and self-hatred play a big role in isat in general. the whole story is kind of about accepting that you are capable of being loved, and not, in fact, inherently repulsive so maybe you should open up, siffrin. imagine that. and i'd argue these themes crystallize into their final form with sif and loop and how they interact :) my ants. my mentally ill ants

(this sidesteps the curious meta element of how both the narration of siffrin to himself and loop addressing siffrin as they talk uses second person. it's very interesting but this is already gonna be long enough)

looking at all their interactions, especially through the lens of knowing who loop actually is, gives a pretty good idea of loop's attitude towards another version of themselves, and, by extension, their own self (this is a bit confusing because there are Too Many Siffrins Here)

the long and short is the resentment they feel towards themselves - because loop never went through the realization they're not unlovable - is externalized and often taken out on siffrin.

they are very condescending with how they interact with him. he's just a silly little stardust! so stupid, so naive! knows so little about literally everything. awww, let me help you out, stardust, before you hurt yourself.

on my first playthrough i actually initially distrusted loop a lot because of this. i saw it as the last thing siffrin would need when they already put themselves down so heavily; how they call themselves "stupid" multiple times for any and all mistakes they make and how unforgiving they are to themselves (especially the key hidden in the classroom exemplifies this). but with the knowledge of siffrin and loop starting out as the same person, it makes a stark amount of sense. when you have a mindset similar to siffrin's and loop's, no one will ever be more critical of you than you yourself.

it sometimes feels like loop's forgetting they're not talking to themselves internally and that this is a whole separate being they're talking to that they can't just externalize their own self-hatred onto, enough that they have to backtrack and apologize because hurting yourself in a way that resembles hurting someone else makes you think twice about what you're doing to yourself. there's a healthy dose of regret there, and guilt that they said something you can't easily erase from the mind of the person you said it to.

there is still care in loop's behavior. conversely to the previous statement, nothing will make you more sympathetic to your own plight than literally seeing it from an outsider's perspective and being able to acknowledge that you need help (sidenote, but kinda twisted of the universe to grant loop's wish in the most roundabout way possible. you want someone to help you? okay! help yourself! your other self, but hey, it counts, right?)

(cut here because this is getting out of control and i can't let it appear in unabridged form on anyone's dash, especially on mobile)

as acts go on and quests progress, loop gets these moments of honesty and empathy for siffrin more often. they obviously have been helping before but you know what i mean, don't you. those moments where loop's facade drops and we get a feeling that this isn't them acting, this is their true... shades, lol. examples!!

aftermath of touch therapy! of course they'd know what the root problem here is and how to best help. this is something acutely familiar to them and they're able to tell what siffrin needs to stop spiraling. and!! siffrin reciprocates this! haven't talked ab him and his attitude towards loop specifically a lot but this too is important. i'm rapidly becoming ill btw

forgetting the party's names upon waking up on the meadow and calling loop! it happened to loop before so seeing it happen to another version of you must make one feel... complicated. they patiently remind siffrin each name and make sure they're fine.

honestly, throughout the entirety of the story, but especially by the end of act 4, they find it very crucial to make sure they reassure siffrin they're there for him, that he's not alone in this. they know where feeling completely alone leads.

okay i can't take it anymore i gotta talk about this.

loop so doesn't want siffrin to use the dagger on themselves. it's genuinely heartbreaking to see their distress about the idea

they even try to dissuade siffrin from it later on, when you first attempt to use it, and are very very upset still afterwards

they care about siffrin!! they don't want to see him hurt! they don't want siffrin to befall the same awful fate they met where self-destruction melts into the natural state of being and you just spiral spiral spiral! they don't hate him, and seeing them fall so far from okay that they're fine with stabbing themselves to save time in a time loop where literally no time is wasted because it loops back anyway is awful for them.

this is where loop transforms from the voice in your head pointing out your deepest flaws to one that can tell what you're doing is self-destructive and bad for you and you really, really should stop. the, pardon my wording, tug on your stomach, like the one you get when you're standing over the ledge and looking down. and when you get the stupid thought how easy it would be to fall, your brain reacts by jolting you away. loop is the jolt.

loop is the inner instincts of siffrin personified at many points of the story. sometimes they're hurtful towards him as instincts of a self-destructive person are wont to do, which is justified with them just wanting that other version of themselves to Be Better, Get Better. and sometimes, it's self-preservation they depict; feeling at home with your self and expressing empathy towards yourself and your own awful situation.

when act 5 comes, loop is clearly crushed about not being able to help siffrin out, about not being able to get them out of their despair.

then, just like he's done with everyone else, siffrin rejects loop too. when siffrin shuns loop here, it's out of anger for being kept in the dark, yes, but it's also a rejection of any positive thoughts they might have about themselves.

siffrin's rejection of loop isn't only rejecting one last person they're close to like they did with their family members. it's a rejection of any and all instincts to care for himself and his well-being. it's the same thing that allows him to use crafts with no cooldowns. it's the same thing as memory of emptiness that lets him loop to the point where he died and just keep going. it's what lets mal du pays take form.

this refusal of loop's help is, in my opinion, the ultimate act of self-hatred in isat.

okay depression time over act6 twohats happy times yayy!!!

after a little bit because loop is - kinda justifiably - upset at how their suffering amounted to nothing and now this siffrin gets their happy ending. and they don't!! how is that fair? we have to keep in mind a lot of what we've learned was news to loop too. they spent so long in the loops, not knowing why, to the point where they begged the universe to get them out and help them.

their roles from act 5 essentially swap here. here loop is the one self-destructing and rejecting any help at all, and projecting the hell out of themselves onto siffrin, just like siffrin did in the "friendquests" in act 5.

so i haven't talked a lot about siffrin's outlook on loop before now (when his psyche is not literally split into tiny pieces, that is) but my little pet theory is that, just like they really hate repeating their lines, being all fake, and only do so because they feel they have to, they're often annoyed by loop because they can kind of sense the front they put out. if you hate the way you pretend, these feelings are most likely gonna transpose to another version of you doing the same thing.

but in this fight, the siffrin in it is not the one still trapped in the time loops. this is a siffrin tentatively learning that maybe it's okay to not hate yourself. so, just like act 5 is the greatest act of self-hatred, the ending of this fight is the ultimate act of self-love and self-acceptance, regardless of how it ends but with some caveats to both outcomes.

if siffrin wins, he refuses to hurt loop, stating outright that they don't hate themselves enough to do so. he won't do it even if loop is literally begging for it.

if loop wins, they cannot bring themselves to hurt siffrin. they feel too much empathy towards them. it's impossible to hate him - and themselves - the same after seeing the struggle from outwards.

regardless, they both exhibit the kind of care only you yourself can give yourself after fighting tooth and nail to prove to your own self-esteem that you're worth it. siffrin wouldn't be satisfied with killing loop because it would mean a rejection of some fragment of themselves.

siffrin went through a capital-C Change due to the loops (the theme of change in isat is another thing i could write on and on about), and part of that Change was having a version of you, your past self, still stuck in how they used to be and the situation that made them so. a healthy type of growth means changing for the better, yes, but also learning to love and respect who you used to be. if you met your younger self, would you resent them? or would you want them to know that all their struggles weren't for nothing? Change means leaving something behind but not forsaking it, letting it rot and fester unacknowledged

(insert rant about how isa's Change was actually kind of partial because he decided to completely sever ties with who he used to be instead of being appreciative of the aspects of himself he seems to still like, like being smart, and him resorting to hiding it instead WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME RIGHT NOW ASK ME LATER IF U WANNA but tl;dr actshually isa Change doesn't need to be full-on destruction because the eggshell is still there the Change God told me okay enough of this)

this. this is love. self-love given form. to me.

"you matter. your suffering mattered. it helped me become who i am right now. nothing was in vain. it hurt, and might still hurt for a long time - but it was never for nothing." that's what i got from this scene.

anywayyyyy i warned you!!! that this would be long!! if you let me yap! it's yap central over here. if you got all the way down here, thank you for enduring. have a cupcake :)🧁

[auncyen]

(I added Bonnie into the draft in a slightly earlier paragraph lol have surprise preteen)

"We're having the feelings talk now, right?" Bonnie asks, finally breaking their stare to look around the table at the others.

"Weeeell, we don't have to get into it right away!" Isa says, looking between you and Bonnie.

"But we will get into it," Mirabelle says. Odile nods.

"...Yeah, we should. But first!" Isabeau says, and you hope whatever he has to say takes a half hour, never mind that he's never been longwinded. "Um. It's a little embarrassing, but yesterday made me realize I just need to go ahead and ask! ...Would anyone like to keep traveling together after we get Bonbon to their sister?"

...!

Oh!

OH!!! This isn't bad at all! It's wonderful!

You nod as soon as you recover from the happy surprise. More time with Isa is something you'd never turn down.

"That sounds great, Isabeau!" Mira says, smiling. "I'd love to!"

"I'd like that as well," Odile says.

"Yeah!" Bonnie's arms fly up into the air. "ROAD TRIP!!"

There's a pause. "Bonbon, I do want you to come with if it's okay with your sister!" Isa says, raising his hands. "But if it's not, well..."

"If it's not, then it becomes something called 'kidnapping'," Odile says, setting her book aside to look at Bonnie.

They hmph, folding their arms. "That won't be a problem at all! Nille's always wanted to travel, so she'll definitely say yes!"

"We'll have to ask!" Mira says cheerfully. "Where were you thinking of going, Isabeau?"

Isa shrugs. "Just, around! There are a few places that might be cool to see, but I don't have a particular destination in mind. As long as I send messages for my family, I don't have to go back to Jouvente. Not right away, anyway. So I'd like to spend more time with you all!"

"We'll discuss the itinerary of our new journey as we go, I suppose," Odile says. Next to her, Bonnie mumbles 'eye-tinry', testing the word out. "Itinerary, Boniface. Five syllables. I have to return to Ka Bue at some point, but when I return is...very flexible." She looks at you.

Everyone is looking at you again?? No, okay, Bonnie is looking down and muttering about five syllables being too many, but all the adults are looking at you. "I'm a traveler??? I don't mind how long we might travel for." You want it to be forever. "Traveling is in my blood!"

Odile gives the softest sigh, and Mirabelle's fingers fidget with each other. ...Have you made that joke before? You might've made that joke before.

"Since this is a feelings talk, maybe I should talk about how I feel," Mirabelle says, which, sure! You're happy to hear Mira out, so you give her your full attention. She has a somber expression as she gazes back at you. "And...I feel kind of guilty? I feel like I've misjudged you a lot, Siffrin, and maybe didn't pay enough attention to you and your feelings."

What. "You don't have to pay me attention, though?"

Your careless response sparks a dazzling constellation of unhappy faces. Isabeau's eyebrows hitch up while Odile narrows her eyes. Mirabelle's face is painted with wide-eyed dismay while Bonnie's screws up like you're more baffling than 'itinerary'. Everyone's frowning.

Wrong thing to say, dummy! You made it sound like Mira's callous and you just didn't mind! That's not it!! You're just happy to stay on the side of the stage, behind the curtain. You don't like having all eyes on you.

(Then people notice what's wrong.)

"I mean!! It's understandable if you didn't?? You were saving your country!" You scramble to salvage the situation.

"Well...okay, even if I agreed with that reasoning, which I don't," Mirabelle says, "Vaugarde's saved now, so I can pay more attention to my friends."

Oh! Mira thinks of you as a friend! You smile.

Mira smiles too, but it's a little sad. "Siffrin, when we were talking about what we'd do after the King, you...you didn't give me a very serious answer. And I thought maybe you were poking fun at me wanting to go on a pilgrimage and Change."

You wince. You're bad at talking to Mira, aren't you?

"But then you were crying at the party--crying because you thought we were splitting up soon--and I realized maybe you'd joked because...because it hurt to consider seriously?" Her eyes have you pinned with their earnestness. "Siffrin, you're my friend, and you've done so much for me and everyone, and I don't even know if you're traveling because you want to or--or if you have to? And that's very worrying."

"You wanted to know my plans for the future, too," Odile speaks up. "And you didn't have a serious answer for me either."

"Yeah!" Bonnie yells. "What was up with that?"

You duck your head down, wishing you weren't having this talk so early. You've only been in the clocktower, so you don't have your cloak or hat on, and you feel very exposed right now.

"...Sif, it's okay," Isabeau says. "You wanted to keep traveling with us and didn't know how to ask, right? We're all guilty on that one."

"Not me," Bonnie says smugly, getting a wry smile from Odile and a more sheepish one from Mirabelle.

"Not Bonbon," Isabeau concedes. "So it's good they helped us figure out we want to travel together longer. But...we probably will stop traveling, one day."

"I won't cry," you say quickly. "Next time."

"You can! I probably will," Isa replies. "Because even if we stop traveling together, we're like a family, you know?"

A...family? Your heart flutters at the thought--and then it drops.

Because Isa's wrong. He's assuming way too much. Bonnie already has their family, and maybe you're friends with Mirabelle but you're so bad at talking with her she can't possibly consider you family, and Odile's... already made it clear how she feels.

"No? You don't agree?" Isa asks, reading your expression. Stars, you wish you had your hat right now. You want him to be right! You want it to be true! But...

"We're not even all friends," you mutter, and he looks surprised--did he forget?? You're supposed to be the forgetful one! "Don't you remember? Odile said we weren't friends, we're allies at best!"

Odile looks more surprised than you expected when you glance at her--she even looks confused. Did she forget too???

And then, with a flash of surprise, her expression switches to annoyance and aggravation. "Siffrin, I was joking."

"...Oh." This time you want to slide under the table and never emerge.

-

I HAVE NOT MANAGED TO MAKE THIS TALK GO THE WAY I WANTED IT TO AT ALL I keep planning for Odile and/or Isabeau to guess at Siffrin being from INOV (because I think the events of this story give them JUST enough setup to figure it out--Siffrin recounting the only story they've ever told of their home to then have their worst memory lapse ever, them talking about the island's disappearance in the library, Euphrasie hinting about a Craft that two people who like studying and know a good bit about Craft have NEVER heard of and yet Siffrin knows without actually knowing, what's up with that, Siffrin having a crying jag that makes the adults worried if he has a home to go back to--I think there's just enough setup for both of them to be like 'where is he FROM, why can't I think of even a possible place.....................oh. oh no') but. idk it's not going that way so far.

You wake up, still feeling the aches and sores of yesterday. You fought the King yesterday, you remember. You won, you remember. The House was so animated, the party so lively, everyone so effusive with their thanks that it was rather overwhelming.

Your friends are staying together, you remember--

No, wait. Your allies. And you have to have a feelings talk because of your outburst.

...But, well, that's fine, you decide after getting changed back into your dayclothes and cloak, smoothing the fabric down with your hand.

Stars, you must have been really tired last night. You were dreading this feelings talk so much, but it's like Isabeau said! Not a big deal at all!

You just have to reassure them that this was a one-off. You were very tired from going through the House and fighting the King. That could be a good excuse. ...No, it's not. Bonnie's a child and even they didn't come close to having a meltdown like that.

Maybe...you could tell them the truth. You want to stay with them. You got scared of having to be alone again so abruptly.

You can see Odile frowning in your mind's eye. You're being unreasonable, she says. We can't spend our entire lives traveling together; we're going to separate someday. Are you going to pitch a fit then, too?

No, no, of course not. You lo--you like your allies a normal amount, and you'll be fine on your own because you always were before so it's stupid to be scared of that, and you have got to think of a better excuse for your behavior yesterday. You hope you can put off this feelings talk as long as possible.

Unfortunately, how it actually pans out is that Bonnie lays out a yummy breakfast that's both leftovers they got to take home from the party, some of the bread soaked in egg custard for delicious pain perdu, and fresh fruit. You let yourself eat quite a bit, though your appetite seems to have calmed down a bit from a day and a half ago, when your big appetite grew ravenous enough to surprise Odile all over again. You were pretty hungry all through the House too, actually. Probably nerves from getting ready to face the King? And you were working hard. Today, even though you're not eating quite as much, the filling breakfast makes it tempting to go back to sleep. You don't, but you're not really thinking much at all, just a lump in your chair, when you suddenly register Isa sitting back down at the table and looking right at you. He smiles when he realizes you're paying attention, but there's also a seriousness in his face, some nervous energy to his smile. Odile has her face in her book, but you catch her glancing at you. Mirabelle looks determined.

...You're having the feelings talk now, aren't you?