#i don't think astarion ever let his conquests see his back

[constantvariations]

A trend in Astarion fics that I find bizarre is the idea that he's never been treated gently during sex. This is difficult to believe for one simple reason: some of Astarion's victims were virgins.

Astarion: You were handsome. Shy. You'd never been kissed. Sebastian: You taught me how. And then you destroyed me.

I get the desire to make his current partner special by having their sex be good and wholesome in comparison to his other trysts, but this is a flawed sentiment. The cutscene of that first night together is incredibly tender from the kiss to laying on the grass - the only outlier being if you offer your neck - and if you sleep with Astarion but keep it at that night, Astarion himself says he will never forget you. Not because the PC was uniquely gentle with him in bed, but because they were the first person he ever slept with of his own free will. It's his choice that makes that night special to him moreso than anything the PC may or may not have done during that time.

[ambrosykim]

don't let her see your cardinal eyes

pairing: astarion x f!tav (saffron carnavon) words; rating: 1,5k; gen, fluff summary: after the first night they spend together, saffron wants to give astarion a gift to show him how much he means to her. (he's confused about his feelings but still sticks to his plan.) a/n: i love both astarion and saffron so much that it's a wonder i haven't turned into a puff of smoke from how much my brain's been overloading on thoughts about them <3 also on ao3!

Saffron's been avoiding him all day.

Astarion tries to think back over the last time she looked - let alone talked to him, but he keeps coming up short. After the night they spent together, she seemed amicable the next morning, making it easier for him to peel back a layer of his protective shell - to let her see him. Of course, he meant for her to see his back - after all, how else could he make her trust him more than literally baring the most vulnerable part of him to her?

He thought Saffron, with her bleeding heart, would feel honoured and even reassured in their relationship, if she saw him opening up to her. And yet, here he is, thinking about her, a day after their conversation, a day in which he didn't even catch her glancing at him.

If it weren't for Saffron's obvious attraction and affection for him, he might mark this down as a failed conquest and try to think about other possibilities. Still, he'd evaluated his chances before and thought that Saffron might be the most receptive to his charms; especially seeing how the others have essentially accepted her as their de facto leader, being as charming as she is.

All in all, he needs her to fulfil the role he wants her to do, if he wants to have guaranteed security for himself. Still, he's not willing to seem like he's chasing Saffron; he'll let her come to him naturally, as if that was his plan all along. The little sorcerer will come running to him in a day or two, he's sure of it.

-

Saffron's been thinking about her parents.

Growing up as the daughter of jewellers, her parents would make each other tiny trinkets whenever they wanted; this included if one of them had a bad day, as an apology if they were fighting, or simply to remind the other just how much they loved each other.

Inheriting her mother's magical powers, as well as her father's knack for creating with her hands, made her a talented sorcerer and - as her parents used to say - an artisan prodigy. As such, she knew this was her time to shine. She could see how Astarion retreated into his shell after the night they spent together, no matter how much he tried to hide it, and she wasn't about to let him hide; not after she's spent so much time and care trying to gently pry him open.

This past day, not only did Saffron give him a bit of space, but she was also preoccupied with thinking of a gift that would cheer him up, while also showing just how much she cared for him.

Fortunately, she has been collecting all the precious stones she could find, proving fortunate for occasions such as this. Gazing at her assortment of gems, she suddenly had an idea. Remembering the gold ingot she gave Karlach - it was too heavy for her and she couldn't see Astarion, who usually took such items from her - she shot up from where she was sitting and took off in the direction of Karlach's tent.

As she was making her way through camp, out of the corners of her eyes, she caught Astarion's gaze following her. Fighting down a smile, she hurried her steps, while also making sure to sway just that bit much as she did so.

Arriving at Karlach's tent, she called for the taller woman, who immediately appeared, as ready to help as ever.

"Hi Karlach. Do you think you could help me to find that bar of gold that I gave you for safekeeping a few days ago? I- sort of need it for something personal."

At her request, Karlach invited her in to help her search for the gold with gleaming eyes, a clap to the shoulder and an "of course, soldier, come on in!", to which Saffron only smiled widely. Gods knew, she was no soldier, yet Karlach insisted on the nickname.

What Saffron didn't notice, however, were the pair of ruby eyes following her into that tent, which lingered on the opening several heartbeats after it stopped moving.

After hunting through several sacks, Saffron finally found the ingot, holding it triumphantly over her head with a shout of "finally!" Thanking Karlach, Saffron exited her tent, only to nearly trip over Astarion, who seemingly was sunning himself right outside of Karlach's tent. Apologising quickly, Saffron stepped over the man and continued her way to her tent, where she could get to work uninterrupted.

-

If during breakfast, Astarion notices the small looks she steals at him, he doesn't show it. If anything, he seems deep in thought, hardly acknowledging anyone. While the gaze with which he looks at everyone - cold and calculating under that veneer of charm - should deter her, Saffron is only more determined to give her gift to Astarion.

After their meal is finished, everyone disperses quickly, as if anticipating something happening just by the atmosphere.

Saffron approaches Astarion with soft yet firm steps, only stopping when her feet nearly touch Astarion's, as he looks up at her with delay, but with that ever-present smirk on his face.

"Oh, darling. Back for another round, are you?" No matter how hard he tries, Saffron can still make out the slight relief present in his face. At her searching gaze, he only fortifies his charm. "What's with that look, my dear? You shouldn't overexert yourself, or if you did, at least let me help you-"

"I have a gift for you." Saffron interrupts him, eager to present the small stone in her hand to the man before her. At her words, his eyes only sparkle with mirth, his smirk deepening.

"Darling, if this "gift" is what I think it is-"

"No, I- I made you something." Her usually charming self is nowhere to be seen as Astarion's implication all but reduces her to a blushing mess. He only raises an eyebrow in skepticism.

"Oh, darling you shouldn't have."

"But Astarion, you don't even know what it is. I think you might like it." As he opens his mouth to answer, Saffron reaches for his hand. She moves a round object into his palm, closing her hand around his and enclosing the small gift.

Satisfied with having finished her task, Saffron takes a step back, letting Astarion steady himself before looking at what he received. After searching her eyes for some hidden answer, he flits his gaze down to his open palm.

A small teardrop ruby sits in his hand, intricate golden swirls covering its surface.

As he examines the small object, Saffron steps closer to him.

"I hope you like it?" As he looks at her, he's hit with how hopeful and affectionate her gaze is.

"I do, I really do, my dear. I just- I don't have anything to give to you." His bravado a shadow of how it usually is, face unusually open and unguarded.

"That's not why I thought to give it to you. I just thought you might like it, that's all. And I wanted you to know how much I appreciate you. There's no hidden meaning in this, Astarion. You've been kind to me, and I wanted to surprise you."

"Oh, that's- thank you." At his slack expression, Saffron continues.

"Also, here, look at this. This took me the longest time, but I wanted it to be perfect for you." While talking, she reaches to hold Astarion's face in her hand. At her silent question, he nods imperceptibly, letting Saffron touch his cheek. She closes her eyes, and he nearly drops the stone, as the ruby suddenly starts emanating soft warmth. Smiling, she looks to see his reaction, stroking his cheek slowly all the while.

At his unusual lack of words, she starts speaking. "I chose a ruby because it reminded me of your eyes. Deep and calming, just like it feels to look into your eyes." Sensing that Astarion might be uncomfortable with this, she adds, "or, at least when you're not being too naughty, though that can also be fun."

Astarion chuckles. "I can also be naughty now, if you're up for it, darling." With one last look to his eyes, she takes her hand off him, leaving him without the warmth of the ruby.

"Maybe some other time. I should probably talk to the others about what to do today."

"All right, but don't keep me waiting for long, dear. There's only so much time a man can handle being alone for." Saffron only answers with a quick grin, leaving him to his thoughts. Even as she saunters away from him, he can only concentrate on the ruby in his palm.

He doesn't remember the last time somebody gifted him something without expecting anything in return. With that thought, Astarion shakes his head and heads to his tent. It still doesn't mean anything. Even if she's the first person to be kind to him in a long time. That just means she'll fall for him faster, and that's exactly what Astarion wanted.

It doesn’t have to mean anything.

[vorestarr]

I think this is a place where it's helpful to play the friend route with Astarion as well as the romance, because some of the ascended path outcomes are still true in the friend route.

He still offers to share power with friend Tav if you have high approval and let him drink from you, he still talks about creating a new world, he still talks about being protected, etc. And honestly to me, a lot of what he says as an ascendant sounds similar to the way he talked in act 1, when he'd first broken free of Cazador's influence and was trying to figure out how to keep this freedom.

So romance aside, to me, the difference with ascended and spawn Astarion is his perspective. Not that he lost a soul or doesn't feel love anymore or even that he is a different person, but that he's stuck in a particular way of thinking, while spawn Astarion is stuck in a different way of thinking.

I think a lot of it comes down to the cycle of abuse narrative as well. Cazador was treated poorly by his vampire master until he killed him, then he treated Astarion the same until Astarion killed him. Now here's Astarion, who ascended because he believed it was the way to ensure Cazador did not gain more power and also to ensure no one could ever do to him what Cazador did again. Is he right? No, we see that the non-ascended route works for him too. But he doesn't know that in the ascended path, and ascending kind of locks him into that kind of thinking. Because he's given up so much, sacrificed 7000 souls, there's no going back and there's no questioning it now.

I think that's the thing for ascended Astarion: he can't go back. Spawn Astarion has chosen not just to not ascend, but also to begin the process of grappling with the terrible things he's done and that there are ways to move forward to try to right some of those wrongs. Ascended Astarion argues those 7000 spawn are already dead, he already killed them centuries ago when he brought them to Cazador, that's in the past, there's nothing he can do, the world is terrible, all he can do is look after himself and make sure he has the power to stop things from hurting him that way.

To me, that's the key difference in perspective.

And when we apply this to the romance paths and see the difference in how ascended vs spawn chocies play out, I think for me, things fit into place.

Ascended Astarion loves Tav, he didn't stop loving Tav, his feelings for Tav haven't changed. But Ascended Astarion wants to make sure he can't lose them. He wants to make sure no one can take them from him or hurt them. He offers them parts of his power, offers to share his world dominating throne, offers to make sure things don't hurt for Tav the way they hurt for Astarion. I think all of that is an expression of love, but it's coming from someone who is convinced the world is terrible and cannot change and the only way to ensure you aren't hurt is to have the most power and control. And he learned this because this was how he survived those 200 years.

The difference with spawn Astarion is that he's opened himself up to the different idea (and very painful idea, for the record, looking at his reactions to being confronted by his past conquests in the dungeon, by the families of the children he kidnapped and the children themselves, etc) that things can change, even things that have already happened, and his previous way of thinking, while protective when he was in Cazador's control, is not the truth of the whole world and does not apply to all situations.

So it's something like, staying in your trauma-response pattern of thinking because that's what saved you before, versus going through the painful process of learning a new pattern of thinking because you are no longer in the trauma situation and that pattern doesn't exactly apply anymore.

And I think in the context of the romance, to me, that doesn't make the Ascended path bad or evil. It makes it messy, it makes it painful, it means Astarion feels like he can never loosen his grip, it means he can never stop looking over his shoulder because that's what he's had to do for 200 years. I think it's a safe path for him in the way that sticking to what you know is safer than taking a risk on something new. I think his romance with Tav was not safe in the same vein because it was something new, because it made him question things, because he can have realizations like "I don't think I want anyone to think of me in terms of sex." And if he starts having those realizations, who is he? How does he learn who he is again?

He knows who he is as a vampire ascendant. And he knows how to have a relationship with Tav based on all the relationships he had as a vampire spawn. He tries, I do think he really tries, to be good to Tav in that relationship. But deep down, he has all the insecurities and fears he had as a spawn, but he doesn't have the tools or ability to address those fears, and that reflects how he frames their romantic relationship.

tldr; he loves Tav even if he ascends, but that love is framed by the fact that he lives his life with the fear of any vampire master - that someone will take it all away from him one day.

I'm not

Tryna make discourse here

But I'm curious about Ascended Astarion. All evidence I can see points to the fact that his love for you dies and warps into possession, obsession. Like you're his favorite pet, and not an equal or a partner or even really a person

But I've seen some fans of ascended Astarion state that they believe he does love you, he's just blinded by his new powers and will mellow out in a bit.

I wanted to point out how spawn Astarion speaks about loving being in the sun,

But ascended Astarion, who CAN walk in the sun, speaks about wanting to blot it out completely and plunge the world into darkness

Spawn Astarion says he wants to be equals with you at his grave scene

Ascended Astarion breaks up with you if you do not agree to become his spawn, and, if you DO agree, he believes you are degrading yourself.

I understand that there's a wealth of ways to interpret things, but I haven't seen any evidence of Ascended Astarion having.... How can I explain my feelings here...

He seems to me to have lost his soul and his ability to love. I see the desire for power, control, safety, possession. Obsession. But I don't see love, or affection beyond "obey me and you will be my most treasured possession"

Again, please, no hating on one route or the other I'm looking for legit like, literary analysis of the scenes we have been given for evidence. I'm even trying to refrain from pointing out my own opinions based on what I've seen to some degree so I don't overly colour this post while asking for more info. Also

Question: is Ascended Astarion a full vampire, as well as "the vampire ascendant" like is he a true vampire? Or is " the vampire acendant" a different kind of creature than a full vampire since he did not drink the blood of his master? Do we have any in game or canon explanations?

I'm curious! Help me