#he understands her baggage in a way the rest of them can't quite appreciate having been a strategist

[honestlyvan]

ive been reading some of ur xc3 meta and i was wondering if u could talk more abt ur thoughts on Alexandria? She was my favorite commander /gen

oh, Alex :) The worst girl in Aionios. How I love her.

I really like how Alex is an example of how you can grow up Okay(tm) in a conflict situation without really being... okay with things. While Alex can't fully intellectually get away from her nature as someone who is deeply caring and concerned with the big picture wellbeing of everyone, she's learned the lessons that the world is merciless and you have to choose your priorities and then keep those things close to your heart absolutely no matter what. She doesn't really know how to ask for help, starting out -- she only knows how to bargain based on "mutual self-interest".

And the way she's just completely incapable of not acting like the most Sus Motherfucker On The Planet is absolutely hysterical. It is so funny how the whole gang is constantly looking at her like "what did you do?" and she's like "nothing!!! Technically." and this just keeps repeating because she just can't stop meddling!!! She's trying to help, honest, she's just got terminal scheming disease!!!

And the payoff for it is so sweet when you realise she's kind of put herself in a category of things that will serve their purpose for a time and then be discarded and the gang goes "wtf no", and the message finally sinks in. She's done everything she can for them, she's set them up as well as she can to be in a position to help and care for Iota, her colony, her people, expecting them to be able to take over with the smoothest ascent possible, leaving her behind and then they won't. Because Alexandria deserves to exist in this world. No matter if she's wronged people, no matter if she's wronged herself and trampled over her own morals, she's capable of changing. She doesn't have to strike a bargain to get out of conflict, the conflict can just end.

And it sucks that Noah steals the moment at the end of her Ascension quest that rightfully belonged to Taion!!!!!!

[theflyindutchwoman]

Just a preemptive apology for spewing this all in your inbox lol 😅

I agree that this felt like the beginning of the larger conversation about uc. I feel like a lot of this storyline requires patience and that's why some people arent the biggest fans of it lol. It took this long just for Tim to get out of denial about his feelings. It's a pretty big issue so I feel like it would be unsatisfying and boring if all it took was one scene and one conversation to fix it.

Plus from Lucy's perspective, uc is something she's been working towards since she was a rookie (except for in season 4 cause I think the writers forgot lol). So I can imagine it would take a lot for her to drop it completely. Especially with her story before the show being her trying to find a career, it would make sense she would cling to something she likes and is good at. I mean she can still be a detective but detective and uc are probably so intertwined in her mind at this point.

I don't know I just don't think the whole thing is as cut and dry as some people think. I'm excited to see where they go with it in the rest of this season. Especially with all the bts pictures we've gotten and how they may fit into this 👀

To be fair, there's patience and there's "waiting for 3 seasons for this storyline to move forward", if you know what I mean ;) Jokes aside, I feel like I'm one of the few who actually enjoy this arc so, in my case, I'm really glad that we are finally digging into this. It has felt stagnant for quite some time, and for good reasons.

Like you said, it apparently has taken this long for Tim to realise how much in denial he has been… And my guess is, he's not the only one here. I appreciate that this is used as a way by the writers to explain why this conversation has been postponed for so long : after all, Lucy has never made a secret that this was the career she wanted and Tim has encouraged her all along (minus the hiccups at the beginning). He knew that when he said they were worth the risk. So they needed to come up with a valid reason as to why it would be a problem. One that wouldn't invalidate Tim's feelings or decision. And now that this is out in the open, we can hopefully focus on Lucy's side of the story. On whether she is in denial too. On her fears - because I refuse to believe she doesn't have any. I do believe that she loves undercover. But like she admitted herself, she has only done short ops. Ops that sometimes went wrong but without any lasting consequences. So while she probably missed her friends and all during those missions, it's entirely different from missing out on a whole year. I'm not sure she has allowed herself to be entirely honest with herself on the subject.

And that's another thing. Her life has changed quite a lot since she decided to pursue an undercover career. Back then, she was pretty much on her own. But now, she has a family. And she lost her closest friend. Things that tend to make you think differently. I don't mean that she can't have the career that she wants, just that these types of events usually makes one reconsider their plans. In a way, this dream of being a UC has been her constant through all of this. And as someone who struggled for close to a decade to find her dream job, I can understand why she doesn't really question it. Not to mention that time and time again, we have seen how Lucy needs to talk things out in order to process them… And she hasn't been able to do that here. Like when she was offered the spot at the UC Academy. She went to see Nyla but it didn't do much. She needed Tim but with all the baggage between them at the time, she barely got to open up about her feelings. He is her sounding board but in this situation, it makes things more complicated. Her feelings for UC and for Tim are so intertwined that she doesn't know how to unravel this whole web. It is so convoluted together. She always shows some concerns about how it will affect their relationship. But not how it will affect HER. Like in 5.20 when she brushed away Tim's question. That's why I like that Tim's feelings might be out of the way first, so we can dig deeper into Lucy's. She has been so focused on Tim that she has neglected herself in the process. And that's also why I loved Chastity's comment. Because it was thrown casually by someone who is on the outside, and far more objective than the team could ever be. And hopefully, this is what starts an introspection from Lucy.

I don't think the writers necessarily forgot about her wanting to do undercover in s4 : she was at the beginning of her P2 career so it made sense for her to focus on that first. But she was still behind two UC ops. The second one being the catalyst for both her relationship with Tim and her career in UC moving forward. It's also no coincidence that Tim has always been involved in her UC ops. Either on the lookout (3.06 and 5.07), as her case officer (5.21), as the one going undercover under her supervision (4.07 and 4.22) or with her (5.01). The only time he wasn't involved from the get-go was during her first solo op (3.14) and even then, he managed to convince Nyla to keep him in the loop. It gave them a sense of safety. So it would be good to see an undercover mission where they can't keep in touch at all. And IF he is really going undercover for a couple of episodes as we have speculated, it would be interesting to see how it would affect them both to be on the other side of the equation. It would offer them a perspective of what the other would go through. That said, I still hope Lucy get to experience herself what it's like to do a long-ish op before making any decision. This has been her storyline above all. But in any case, I can't wait to see where this is going. (And I'm sorry, I feel like I went off on a tangent here and hijacked your reply lol).

[jadelotusflower]

Robin Hood Rewatch: 2x08 Get Carter!

This is actually one of my favourite episodes of the season, partly because I really enjoy relationship angst, but mostly because we get multiple characters dealing with their trauma/grief. If we can't get these guys and gals into therapy, at least we get to see them talk (and hug) it out.

Also the best episode title they're had for a while - I have no doubt one of the writers is a fan, and Carter is so named only because they wanted to make this reference. The assassin seeking revenge for a dead brother is wholesale lifted from the plot of the film, and Joseph Kennedy almost has a passing resemblance to Michael Caine's look in that role.

"Get Carter - before Carter gets you!"

Carter is one of the only guest stars they actually will bring back later, and for good reason.

"Why don't you ever kiss my ring?" Vaisey, always making things creepy.

Marian is simmering with unrestrained anger, eager to get into the fight, while Robin is the one advocating for the watch and see approach, and it’s quite the role reversal.

The gang's reaction to her charging off is quite funny though, she knocks John over completely and Djaq throws her hands in the air.

Robin’s now getting a taste of what the rest of the gang have to put up with dealing with his recklessness.

Tying Marian up in the middle of a melee, however, is disgusting behaviour - while Marian was hot-headed throwing herself into the fight (nothing Robin hasn't done before himself), he knows that she can hold her own with a sword and doesn't need protecting. Tying her hands is the absolute worst thing he could have done, because how is she meant to defend herself? I can somewhat understand where Robin is coming from in this episode (even if he goes about it badly), but this is unjustifiable.

Clearly she gave that guard she clanked on the head amnesia, because he never reports back that Marian was fighting with the gang.

“I owe you my life”/“I won’t take it just yet.” Nice.

Scimitar is still missing in action.

Robin doesn’t want Marian to be seen in case she needs to return to the castle, when he’s spent the whole season urging for her to join the gang. I think he realises he made a mistake asking her to flee last episode without giving her time to deal with her grief, and wants to leave her options open. But telling her that she’s not ready to make the decision (about whatever she wants to go back), however correct, is patronising.

There's a fundamental conflict that Marian wants to be treated like a member of the gang, but doesn't want to cede to Robin's authority like the rest of the gang - in turn Robin expects her to follow his orders like the others, but isn't treating her like he would the others either - he would never tie them up to keep them out of a fight, and Marian has every right to pissed at him about it.

Djaq and Much having a little tête-à-tête about Carter - I just really enjoy that they’re often paired together in these gang scenes, they balance/play off each other so well. Just this pure platonic frazzled vs calm vibe.

Much just has this really great memory for faces - he was able to recognise fake Richard last season just from his profile despite wearing a helmet, and now he knows he remembers Carter's face from somewhere (or as it will turn out, Carter's brother).

Much really just does not let up, and I love that about him. "You'll be disappointed though, with uh, today's wound. I mean if you're planning to go back to the Holy Land and, uh, kill him." That not so subtle probing for information and Sam Troughton's delivery is always perfect.

"Wasn't me, was it?" Oh Much, so close.

“The crusty one” - lol

It's not explicit, but implied that Vaisey and Guy believe Edward was the one passing information to Robin, and Marian is cleared of any suspicion (paving the way for her return). Guess Guy never showed the Sheriff that hair dagger after all.

Vaisey is actually giving Guy some really good advice here, albeit laced with his usual cruelty and getting all up in Guy's personal space.

"Grow up Gisborne" - now I don't think it's deliberate on Vaisey's part to invoke a Marian parlance, seeing as she really only says this to Robin (and once to Much), but it's a nice little callback, however unintentional.

Marian asks for an apology (and deserves one), but Robin doubles down and doesn't come out of this exchange well.

Because his delivery is terrible, but he's otherwise quite correct - as skilled as Marian is, she’s used to relying on (and having to worry about) only herself and not work in a team, and look to a single point of command. But both of them have their backs up - they're two strong personalities and neither is going to give ground, reverting to the ideological clashes of season 1, except now in much closer quarters.

Robin's also not used to being challenged in this particular way, and in his frustration is reacting like a captain disciplining a soldier, not a lover helping their partner through their grief. I do wonder if the conversation would have gone differently if they'd been alone.

lol at the gang awkwardly standing around listening to Robin and Marian fight. Djaq trying to busy herself with her mortar and pestle as Robin and Marian argue around her.

A really great scene between Marian and John aka the camp dad. Marian really just needs someone to listen to her and appreciate what she's going through - Robin is too fixated on the dangerous way she's channeling her grief and not even trying to address the root cause. He trying to tell her what to do, not listen to what she actually needs.

On the other hand it's probably better coming from John, a neutral party without the emotional baggage she has with Robin.

Because Robin and Marian are really being driven by completely different motives - Marian by grief and therefore loss, and Robin by trauma and therefore fear. In her sorrow, Marian has lost all her fear of being discovered, in fact she wants to make it know she's with the gang, to finally be free to say which side she's on and fight openly, to make her father's death worthwhile, and can't understand why Robin is trying to stifle that.

"I thought you used to have your own men Little John?" So someone remembers Forrest and Hanton!

After Carter takes down the gang one by one, Robin takes down Carter in three seconds (including catching the long dagger Carter throws at him, and flinging it back) and it's lights out. Can you believe it's the first concussion of the season? (Notwithstanding the multiple head injuries Allan sustained last episode).

While Marian has been known to be punch-happy, the "he'll tell us more if he knows we're willing to hurt him" is just so (intentionally) out of character - it is however somewhat reminiscent of Robin in 1x08, wanting to get his punch and torture on with Guy. However rather than understanding where Marian is coming from, he pushes her away with the "go and cook something" jibe. This almost feels like he was going for familiar banter and miscued, but is also an asshole thing to say. When their positions were reversed in 1x08 Marian at least tried to reason with him - Robin is seems to be ill-equipped to do the same.

Allan just having a little snooze against the castle wall. He really seems defeated and depressed after last episode.

Marian's corset has a pouch to hold a dagger - or at least I hope there is because otherwise it's ouch time.

Leaving Marian at the camp is again a mistake on Robin's part - it excludes and isolates her from the gang, rather than trying to involve her so she can bond with them, engaging in their outreach to the peasants - who she helped as the Nightwatchman, but never really had the opportunity to come to know. It would remind her that they are not just fighting against the Sheriff but for the people, which in her frenzied grief she has perhaps lost sight of.

Instead, Robin's focus is on Carter, who he rather identifies with and so finds it easier to address his motives, and try and change them.

Carter is in many ways Robin’s dark mirror, what he could have become in the Holy Land if he chose a different path. It’s important that this happens right when Robin is backsliding - he’s trying to save his own soul as much as Carter’s.

Okay, let's talk about Marian’s forest gear - fashioned from the outfit she wore when she fled the castle the previous episode - but dear me it's awful. The grey culottes, rather than becoming trousers have now been turned into that corset, and her vest/skirt overlay have now become those trousers. Just baffling.

“I’m good with nuns” followed by Allan straight up knocking the Mother Superior over and stealing her ring is iconic.

Much gives Robin a sword to use going after Carter - still no scimitar.

I really love the confrontation/fight scene between Robin and Carter - it's very well choreographed and written, but we also see the best of Robin's character (after seeing some of the worst earlier).

Carter's brother is called Thomas - Allan's brother was called Tom. Lots of dead brothers in this show (including Djaq's).

The story of Carter's brother Thomas dying because he "stopped listening" and led a raid against orders is a little on the nose, but gives context to Robin’s fear for Marian’s safety in part triggered by his war trauma - someone charging in against orders and then dying in his arms.

But it shows Robin as a man who, even when Thomas' recklessness had cost not only his own life but others of Robin's men, was still moved to instruct the stretcher-bearers to make Thomas the hero, and himself the negligent captain, in order to comfort his family.

The fight is fairly even, and although Robin gets the upper hand in the end, it's only partly his skill - rather his true strength is in reaching the man inside the assassin, and then surrender and allow Carter to take his revenge if that's what he wants, and despite his fear, trust that there is good still in him, and that he can leave behind the life as a killer as Robin has done (tried to do).

This scene is the core of why I really love Robin as a character. He's riddled with PTSD and a reckless bravado, he's at time emotionally stunted with those he loves, makes terrible mistakes and often says the wrong thing, but he also has this great heart and compassion that allows him to reach people, to understand and help them, even at the risk of his own life. He's trying.

"He was a hero - just not on that day" is quite a poignant line.

Much and Djaq together again, just saying.

Robin finally finds out that Roger of Stoke was intercepted. I had assumed he'd figured that out once he knew Allan was a traitor but okay.

Poor Much crying out for Robin's attention - he's got his own trauma from the war and wants to talk about it, to commiserate with Robin about what they went though, but Robin can only cope by not talking about it, not even thinking about it.

Much makes a good point that Robin should have listened to him about recognising Carter, but it comes across as jealously over Marian and Robin misses just how deeply Much carries his hurt.

One of Robin's biggest flaws is that he's overwhelming in his affection, compassion, and understanding for strangers, but takes those he loves for granted - Carter's response to grief was the same as Marian's, but Robin listened to Carter, consoled and comforted him, while keeping Marian at arm's length. Perhaps because strangers don't ask for anything beyond that - it is the granting of kindness, but not the sharing of self. It's the latter Robin truly fears, but what Much and Marian deserve (although tbf Marian has problems with this as well).

“Either I’m part of your gang or I’m not” is a valid point, and Robin's still not happy even when she agrees to stay behind!

But she disobeys him, and saves his life. It's a rite of passage - almost all of the members of the gang have this.

Allan looking rather distressed as Guy is about the chop off Robin's head, and he makes a small movement just before the swing (as does Much).

Guy again pushing Marian past the point of discomfort - she left, wrote him a letter asking him to leave her alone, straight up told him to his face to leave her alone, and still he persists.

Her kissing Guy (to distract him from seeing Much and Will) is really the only time she sends mixed signals, but Guy's whole energy seems to be just to wear her down until she agrees to be with him and it's gross. It is however kind of amusing that he tries to be authoritative and forbid her from leaving, and she immediately walks away.

Robin and Marian are back in playful banter mode, although I wish there had been a deeper discussion (and that Robin had apologised in return). It doesn't quite feel like the conflict between them has been resolved, it really is just a "truce".

But I do like that it's Marian who reaches out to Robin at the end of this episode, because up until this point it's Robin who has been (somewhat) the one making overtures - asking her to join the gang, telling her he needs her, telling her he loves her, while Marian's been more reserved. This feels like her acknowledging that sometimes she needs to take the first step.

This was a long one - but as a I said, I really love this episode!