#harrowhark/gideon. /the/ women honestly so much wrong with them

[notedchampagne]

Honestly i also think that a lot of the romanticization of Ianthe vs infantilization/fear mongering of harrowhark is also that like... We don't really get to see Ianthe suffer the nastier parts of shit mental health. Like, we know she cries to sleep, for like a line or two, but we're not pressed against her intimacies and the inside of her head (hehehe pun intended) like we are with harrow.

It's easy to infantilize Harrowhark because we get to see her struggling, we get to see the thought processes that lead to her lashing out, we get to see her suffering through. Well, basically everything, more than we see her putting on the dignity, and even when we do, we generally get to see the lead up, or we are with someone who responds in kind (thanks gideon).

With Ianthe we basically *only* get the facade, even when the Issues Are Blatant, and even if when she lashes out she does her utmost best to seem in control, much like harrow. The other characters do Not Give A Shit, so neither do we, as readers, feel naturally inclined to it.

Plus like. I might be reaching, but sometimes i feel like tlt fandom needs a character to be "pathetic", or to suffer, in order to... Idk how to word this bc englishs not my first language, but essentially pay penance? In the fandom I see a lot of people who feel Uncomfortable recalling their fave did bad shit, and like, needing to either justify it for themselves or others by going "oh look how she suffers", essentially infantilizing their characters so they don't have to acknowledge the worst edges, which is a choice, I guess. They not only do this with Harrowhark, but also with Gideon, Pyrrha, Mercymorn, etc.

They also do the opposite, by rejecting the possibility of suffering for characters they consider evil, most notably with John. It's not possible for them to be over their heads, or for them to have made a mistake. Either they were deliberately planning it, or they deserved it somehow, or their actions *later* meant they retroactively deserved it, and may be pointed as the cause for it happening.

Which is... Uncomfortable, to say the least, even if I'm only latine.

anyways. TDLR: People should just say they look really fucking cool dripping with blood and determined. At this point ill even take an I support women's wrongs/woman's right to murder or whatever

Sorry for going in a tangent on your askbox or of this doesnt make sense its like nearly two am and i cant sleep

this is very real and leans into what ive observed in fandom as well! tlt is a house party full of morally gray characters but i feel like when we are panicked to discuss someone being "evil" or otherwise the two closest avenues are infantilization/reduction (i can fix him, theyre pathetic they cant do anything right im protecting them) or full villainy (i like them Because theyre evil, irredeemable, they deserved it so i dont care)

hope you sleep soon

[harrowharkwife]

ill go with sex pal :P but if that's already done, gideon :)

HIIIIII!!!!!!! hi friend!!!!!

favorite thing about them: PALAMEDESSSSSS my boy palamedes. my little guy. man, okay, what do i love about him. i love the way he loves. i am fascinated by his clumsy and imperfect and well-meaning but inherently flawed attempts/approaches to things like agency and ethics and fairness and respect. i love that he pays attention to everything. i love his drive. i love his gambling streak, his tendency to play the odds. i love that he's a boy who writes love letters™. i love how open he is about his affections and his feelings. i love his penchant for using terms of endearment. his love for teaching. his willingness to get up on a soapbox for things he believes in, even if he winds up stumbling sidelong into insufferable preachy condescension half the time. i love that he tries. i love that he sometimes fucks up and hurts the people around him. i love his boldness. i love his sweetness. i love his kindness. that boy could make friends with a brick wall if you gave him enough time. i love that he canonically writes weird erotica to cope. i love his taste in women. i love his gender. i just love him

least favorite thing about them: i mean, i could go on forever. he's deeply annoying sometimes, and as much as it's part of his charm, it also makes me want to thwap him upside the head from time to time, like. boy. shut UP!!! but the real answer is honestly his position as sixth house scion. master warden is an unspeakably rancid title in vibes alone and i sincerely hope we dig into the backstory behind that a little more in AtN. i find it fascinating, and troubling, and tragic, and frustrating, all the ways in which he talks the talk re: cavaliers and agency and free will, but when the rubber meets the road, do his actions really back that up? arguably, not always. and the guilt and complicity and codependent toxicity there re: camilla, is like catnip to me. he loves her, he respects her, she's his best friend, he's in awe of her and her abilities and her strength. and yet, time and time again, he puts her through harrowing things and thanks her each time she shoulders his burdens. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, it makes me so sad, it's a snake eating its own tail, it is a mobius strip of toxic power imbalance codependent enmeshment and it is FASCINATING to think about. if i keep going we'll be here all night, but just. i think fandom has a tendency to write him as The Good Person™ (him and Camilla both) and, like, i love him as much as the next girl, but he's a head of state in an empire, with all the implications that brings with it.

favorite line: "how god takes, and takes, and takes." "fool us twice, shame on god." "thank god for that mad, stubborn, lovely girl." "it's not you, it's me wearing you." (moira quirk's inflection on that line is literally fucking haunting, btw.) "do you know, i miss harrowhark terribly." "and, most personally, this is for dulcinea septimus." god. i just love him

brOTP: harrow, and also gideon.

OTP: im shy <3

nOTP: im struggling to think of a pal pairing that i Couldn't find compelling or at least interesting, if written the right way, in the right light. he's just my interesting little guy. he's a barbie and im making him scissor all the other barbies. who said that

random headcanon: glasses chain. earrings. palamedes can have she/her pronouns, every now and then, as a treat. contrary to the initial assumption of everyone he's ever met, he's actually Not autistic. (cam is; he's just got wicked bad adhd.) jewamedes is also fun

unpopular opinion: i mean i guess just what i said up top re: people sometimes acting like he's never done anything wrong in his life? i love him but i love him Because he is an interesting and deeply morally gray (ha) character.

song i associate with them: what you can't look up by walk the moon, tiny moves by bleachers, to someone from a warm climate by hozier, chateau lobby #4 in c for two virgins by father john misty, shiver shiver by walk the moon, star by mitski, hopedrunk everasking by caroline polachek, GAMBLER'S PRAYER BY CAROLINE POLACHEK my ultimate palamedes song

favorite picture of them: ive tattooed every single piece of palamedes art ive ever seen on the inside of my eyelids. except white palamedes fanart which is always such a jumpscare