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ladyhistorypod · 4 years

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Episode 9: Monkey See, Monkey Do

Sources:

Helen Martini

Museum of the City of New York

IMDB

British Pathé (YouTube)

New York Heritage Digital Collections

Further Reading: My Zoo Family, Cubs in the Tub, Mother to Tigers

Dian Fossey

Biography

BBC Earth

National Geographic: The Renegade Scientist Who Taught Us To Love Gorillas

Zoologist Dian Fossey: A Storied Life With Gorillas

Lady Science

DW: Made For Minds

Alana’s Surprise Lady

The Age

SF Gate

Kokoflix (YouTube)

PBS

Gorilla Foundation

New York Times

NPR

Washington Post

ABC News

National Geographic

National Geographic (YouTube)

60 Minutes Australia (YouTube)

Attributions:

birdsong, water splash, Zoos & Young Animals, Under Water

Click below for a full text transcript of this episode!

Haley: A brief warning about the following episode of Lady History: this episode contains sensitive topics such as murder, violence, and racism.

Archival Audio: Gorilla at Large! The most murderous, destructive beast man has ever seen! Gorilla at Large! In 3D and color by Technicolor!

Lexi: Alana, do you want to share your good news?

Alana: I do, I have very good news. So, in– I think it was episode five– we very subtly mentioned that GW had to let me into school so that Lexi and I could live together and um… Actually the same day that episode seven came out, we found out that GW let me into grad school.

Lexi: Woohoo!!

Haley: I feel like that's a universe telling you like “here is why” if it aired on the same day.

Alana: Yeah, definitely. I really think like. My dad was like “did you put– did you talk about your podcast on your application” and I was like yeah. I listened to– the suffragist episode? I listened like four times the day it came out. I was like this is so good. We're so good at this.

(Lexi laughing)

[INTRO MUSIC]

Alana: Hello and welcome to Lady History; the good, the bad, and the ugly ladies you missed in history class. I’ve run out of ways to say that we're on Zoom but Lexi what's the difference between monkeys and apes?

Lexi: Like. You want me to scientifically give you the difference?

Alana: Sure.

Lexi: Monkeys have tails.

Alana: Monkeys do have tails.

Lexi: There's a lot more but like monkeys do have tails. And that's the easy way to tell. So please, when you take your child to the zoo do not call the chimps or gorillas or orangutans or bonobos monkeys. As someone who previously worked in a zoo, and witnessed mothers and nannies telling their children “look at the monkey sweetie” to an intelligent ape, I… Nope. Mm. Okay.

Alana: That's why I picked that question for you. Also, Haley. Haley, what’s your favorite zoo?

Haley: I am a zoo connoisseur. I love zoos. Love me some animals but I'm going to have to go with my hometown, my first zoo ever was the Bronx Zoo. I have many memories, some scary, some pleasant, some very confusing but generally just like would ten out of ten live there.

Alana: And I'm Alana and my personality is fifty percent I love aquariums.

Haley: No.

Alana: Why are you shaking your head at me Haley?

Lexi: I also love aquariums.

Haley: Fish freak me out.

Lexi: Aquariums freak you out?

Haley: Fish and birds like, scare me on a personal level.

Lexi: Those are my favorite animals! I had a fish tank in my nursery as a baby. I think that's where my parents went wrong because I got a degree in museum studies and I just want to work with living collections that would be fantastic, so hit me up, any zoo in America. Actually, any zoo in the world. I am mobile. I am single. I do have a parrot so if your country does not allow parrots to come in from foreign countries please consider me off your list. But if I can bring a parrot into your country and you want me to work in a zoo or aquarium hit me up.

Haley: Cal Academy is right for you, that's where I– very close to where I currently live and they have like their live collection. I thought their penguins were fake. Like I did not realize because the way– Okay, the way the Cal Academy is set up is that when you walk in you’re greeted with this like giant forest– like what is called, atrium? Aviary is for the birds, right? So this is just like a whole encapsule of foliage and you can see some like butterflies go around and you can see the beginning of the aquarium, and the whole bottom floor is the aquarium and it's really really cool. You also have like an albino or white alligator. I forget what the guy's name is called, but it's like a white alligator that they have to– if he ever gets hurt and like he starts bleeding, since he’s white it's very noticeable they have to like hide him to not scare the children it’s a whole thing. Oh, the penguins. The penguins are in like their African, early human wing which are all taxidermy animals or like faux bones those like display of human origins like the Smithsonian and then one wall it's just penguins and then they started moving I truly just jumped out of my skin. This was like at a… the first time I went was at like an adult night, 21 and older, you get a drink, you walk around the like, museum.

Alana: That’s sexy. I want to go to that.

Haley: I had like a beer in me and then the penguins started moving. People have like very mixed feelings on the Cal Academy but it's mostly people who like hate zoos, and like don’t understand that like some zoos are actually decent. Like it’s– we're not talking about GW Tiger King zoo, we’re talking about like–

Lexi: That's not a zoo. That's just not a zoo.

Alana: That’s not a zoo!

Haley: The amount of people who have fought me when I'm like “I love zoos” they're like “animals should be wild” and it's like “no. You do not put a hurt penguin back with its herd.” Like the elephant missing a tusk? Is not going to do well. Like GW Tiger King zoo? Not a zoo. That’s just–

Lexi: Science is important.

Alana: Science is important!

Lexi: The zoos on Tiger King, not science. When you go to a zoo, or are considering going to a zoo, look up what their contributions to scientific research and animal welfare are. If they are not AZA certified, do not go there. There was an incident recently in which the Pittsburgh Zoo, which used to be AZA certified, became un-AZA certified. It’s still an okay zoo but like in general look for AZA certifications. But the thing about AZA zoos is they follow a species survival plan, which means they don't decide when and where the animals go. There is a larger conglomerate that decides when animals need to be moved around. And so if one zoo needs a gorilla that will breed with another gorilla because that is what is best for gorillas all over the world, they will move the gorilla. They get a private plane and they take the gorilla with the keeper to meet its new keeper and that's where the gorilla moves because it's all about the science and the species preservation.

Alana: I really like the New England Aquarium and I'm not just saying that because I hope Erin Keif is listening. Um, even though I do hope she’s listening. Hi, Erin! We think you’re really cool!

Lexi: The aquarium in your homeland is beautiful.

Alana: It's so cool. I love the big old tube and then you like walk up around the tube. I think that's dope. I love that. That's like their main exhibit and I think it's so cool. I also saw like– I was in Boston maybe ten years ago; little more, little less, and there were like jellyfish! Right off the docks! Because we’re killing the turtles! That’s what I learned at the New England Aquarium!

Archival Audio: The llama family and cousins are all in the market for babysitters. While Mrs Helen Martini serves in that capacity for 3 little tiger kittens, born of parents themselves born and raised at the zoo, the triplets are concerned mainly with calories and vitamins and rather resent the working press. They're not up to scratch, yet, but they sure know the proper facial expressions. What a picture they make! (Tiger cub meowing sound)

Lexi: So, Haley, we were talking about your favorite zoo in the world. What was that zoo?

Haley: The Bronx Zoo.

Lexi: And do you know much about the history of the Bronx Zoo?

Haley: I probably used to, you're gonna have to fill me in on this one.

Lexi: Do you know who the first female zookeeper of the Bronx Zoo was?

Haley: Your lady?

Lexi: Yes! Helen Martini!

Alana: Her name is Martini?

Lexi: Yes, her name is Martini. So like, wonderful. We’re already off to a great start. But yes that is when talking about today so I thought it was very relevant that you mentioned how much you love the Bronx Zoo, that it's your home turf, because it was her home turf too. So a quick preface to our upcoming story, finding digital sources on Helen is extremely difficult. I had a really hard time with it. It appears very little has been published about her, particularly online and she doesn't even have a Wikipedia page, so for information about her life I had to use an IMDB page that exists for her, which I'm not sure if it's accurate and I'm not sure why it even exists, she was not a movie star. So take all this info on her early years with a tiny grain of salt. Once she actually starts being involved with the zoo that's when the information gets a little more accurate. Helen Martini was born on June 5, 1912 in Newfoundland, Canada. Her father, Matthew Delaney, was a merchant seaman and Helen was born with an eye problem that doctors told her parents would result in her eventually going blind. After father's death in 1925, her mother took her to New York to undergo eye operations. These operations helped protect her sight. Some attribute her caring personality to this turning point in her life. As an adult, Helen married a man named Fred. He worked as a jeweler and the couple lived in an apartment in the Bronx. Fred and Helen decided to have a baby, but unfortunately lost their child due to miscarriage. Helen was told by doctors that she would never be able to have a child. Helen turned her attention to caring for fur babies instead. She and Fred became diligent pet owners and avid animal lovers. The couple also lived close to the Bronx Zoo, and frequently visited the furry friends that lived there. One day, Helen saw an ad for an open position at the Bronx Zoo. At the time, American zoos only hired men as zookeepers. So Helen did what any sensible woman in mid-century America would do. She encouraged her husband to quit his job as a jeweler and apply to become a zookeeper. Fred had no formal training or experience in zoology, but he got the job. Fred became the keeper of the lion house, which was home to an array of big cat species. In 1942, a lioness had a cub and refused to care for it. Worried it would die, Fred decided he needed to enlist the help of the best animal mom he knew- his own wife Helen. Helen took in the cub and named him Macarthur, in honor of General Macarthur. Helen cared for the cub in her and Fred’s apartment, following the zoo’s protocols for care. At the age of 2 months, Macarthur was thriving and he returned to the zoo to live among other lions. Two years later, the zoo’s female tiger gave birth to three cubs. She abandoned all of them, refusing to nurse or care for them. Helen, who had successfully saved Macarthur, was again called upon to care for the baby big cats. She cared for the three cubs in her apartment, just like Macarthur, but the zoo had no set protocols for abandoned baby tigers. There was no guide for her to follow, as the Bronx Zoo had never successfully raised orphan baby tigers before. Helen, determined to succeed and help save the animals, used her own motherly instincts, her previous experience working with lions, and extensive research to develop a method for rearing the cubs. Much of her method was improvised, and used trial and error. Eventually, she developed the perfect diet to get the tigers fit; milk and water in the early days, then the addition of chopped meat as they grew. All three cubs became strong and were able to go back to the zoo. Helen had become a successful zookeeper, all without ever being paid or rewarded in any way. So the Bronx Zoo decided to do the unthinkable- hire a woman. Helen was officially hired as a zookeeper and became America's first woman to work as a professional zookeeper. Her role was to care for baby animals, and she established the Bronx Zoo's first nursery. She converted an old storage space into a place for orphaned and abandoned baby animals. Helen still cared for the youngest babies who needed round the clock care in her apartment, but the older couples are able to thrive in a space all their own. In 1945, Helen was a household name in the Bronx, known by many as a woman with tiger cubs in her apartment. Photographers from Look magazine visited her home, documenting the unique situation of her and her husband. Baby tigers rummaged through the fridge, sat in Helen's armchair, and even rummaged through the cameraman's bag. Helen did not stop at just lions and tigers. She knew other baby animals at the zoo would not be able to thrive if their mother stopped caring for them. Throughout her career, she also raised black leopards, marmosets, jaguars, gorillas, deer, antelopes, and even skunks. Her favorite of this was still, of course, the tigers. Before her retirement in 1960, she had raised 27 tigers in total. In 1951, newsreel video of Helen shows her caring for a baby gorilla named Mambo and refers to her as an “ardent disciple of Spock and Gessell” two child care experts of the era. In the video, Helen feeds baby Mambo from a bottle and sets him in his crib for a nap. You can watch this clip on YouTube and I will include the link on our Tumblr. In 1953, Helen and Fred published a book of photographs and stories which they called “My Family Zoo.” In this book, Helen mentions personal accounts of her favorite animals- Bagheera the leopard, Ugly the howler monkey, Zambezi the lion, Dolly the deer, and Dacca, her beloved tiger cub who went on to have cubs of her own, making Helen a tiger grandma. Unfortunately, this book is out of print and extremely rare. The cheapest copies seem to cost around $60 today. Helen has also inspired several modern children's books including “Cubs in the Tub” and “Mother to Tigers” which are both about her raising the three initial tiger cubs. Helen's work establishing a nursery at the Bronx Zoo was revolutionary in the world of zoology and zoo management. Through her efforts, dozens of vulnerable baby animals were saved and went on to live healthy lives as ambassadors for their species. Her observations of their behaviour and reflections on the issues of raising baby wild animals in captivity provided a foundation of understanding for future zookeepers. Helen, who brought motherly kindness and a caring nature to the zoo, is proof that sometimes a woman's touch is all an industry needs to progress. Also, I just wanna make a quick plea that if any of you are skilled Wikipedia editors, please help my girl Helen get on there and link it to the Bronx Zoo page so that people can find her because she is so cool and there are not many resources on her out there.

Alana: I have a question. Is Bagheera named after The Jungle Book Bagheera?

Lexi: I believe so, but it could just be a coincidence. But it sounds like it, probably.

Alana: It seems like it.

Lexi: Yeah.

Alana: I remember people were talking about the… it's like my mom's favorite song from Jungle Book, where King Louis, the orangutan king, is like singing with Mowgli and people are like “that's racist” and I'm like. I have bad news for you guys. About the Jungle Book. Bad news about Rudyard Kipling.

Lexi: Ruining their childhoods.

Alana: Yeah, for real. It’s like I… I… I have bad news, you know that guy, the guy who wrote The Jungle Book? He also wrote something called “The White Man's Burden” about how it's white people's job to civilize people of color. So maybe… beating a dead horse a little bit.

Archival Audio: In a land, in a forest grim and grand, where the chimpanzees and the cinnamon trees live a simple life with the simianese, a big gorilla he.

Haley: Born in 1932, she is known as the woman who gave her life to save the gorillas. Dian Fossey lead an incredible life and this story is definitely a roller coaster. Honestly guys this might have been the like hardest story for me to write because one, there's so much information about her out there, a lot of that information is conflicting. Based on the author's bias. It is also something that like. Like 1932 is not that far away it's less than a hundred years and it's not like she was– she… born and died between like before 1950. She's kinda more relevant. She knows Jane Goodall, we'll get into all of that. A lot of that information was hard to dissect. Let's– let's hope I did a good enough job for y’all. Please don't come out– come after me if I left something out. I could honestly go on for hours this could have been like a two parter for me. Alright. Let's start this history book at the beginning. Dr Dian Fossey was born and raised in San Francisco, California and she grew up in an environment surrounded by animals. So much so that she wanted to be a veterinarian, and fun fact she was an avid horseback rider so we got a horse gal for us here. Fast forward a little bit. Dian Fossey didn't really study veterinary, but she was still in the whole helping people, helping animals– because like humans are animals– and graduated with an occupational therapy degree. Moved to Louisville, Kentucky where she was the director of the Kosair Crippled Children’s Hospital as an occupational therapist or she was the head of that department. This was in 1955 hence the dumb name. I really hope that wasn't the name but it was in 1955. There she also was living on a farm so she couldn’t super get away from animals because she did own some, had the whole farm life. But it wasn't enough to fulfil her adventurous side, and as the years went on, she was kind of itching to do something more and going back to animals seemed like the obvious choice. So in September 1963, Dian went to Africa for the first time ever. This trip not only cost her her entire life savings, but also an entire bank loan had to be taken out just so she could like go to Africa and do some research. Well, this clearly paid off because while visiting Kenya, Tanzania, and other places, she met paleoanthropologist Mary Leakey and her husband archaeologist Louis Leakey. And this is a side note like snaps they introduced her as Mary Leakey and her husband and my jaw just dropped I was like yes I was going to do this anyway! It was also the relationship that she had with the Leakeys, that she met up with Jane Goodall. And the Leakeys at this point wanted to find ways to make sure other areas– because paleoanthropology is the study of like really really old things, fossils, before human life– they are the guys who did Lucy. Af- Afric– Africanus– what was it–

Alana: Australopithecus

Haley: Austro– Someone please say it.

Lexi: Australopithecus africanus, right?

Haley: There we go. Yes, that is Lucy. It was also this relationship with the Leakeys that she was able to meet Jane Goodall. And Jane Goodall was part of this whole Leakey corporation, society, relationship, business type thing, because the Leakeys as paleoanthropologists were really interested in studying primates and how they worked genetically, historically, all that stuff with our ancestors as Australopithecus Africanus etcetera etcetera etcetera. We can truly visit this for hours and hours and hours. However, we don't have the time. So Dian kind of got the gorilla side of it and she also met with native wildlife photographers who were working on a documentary about African gorillas, and it was there that Dian was like “yes, I love gorillas, I really want to continue this, this is where I was meant to be.” And back in the States Dian kept thinking about Africa, endangered gorillas, and how she can get more involved. She ended up accepting an offer which allowed her to live among the mountain gorillas in the Democratic Republic of Congo and then Rwanda, because of like the civil war that was happening she had to move around, be safe. In Rwanda, she established the Karisoke Research Foundation in Rwanda's Volcanoes National Park to be like the base camp for her research. She grew her name in the primatology field and was the leader on the physiological and behavioral side of mountain gorillas. So really looking at how they interact with each other, and what individualistic qualities they resemble, so not seeing them as purely these hungry animals that will rip you from limb to limb. How did they act with their children, how did they act with their others like the male versus female, how do they act with other species in the area, all that good stuff. And her work also extended to the protection of our furry comrades by shedding light on how poachers kill gorillas and the violence against them overall. This opened up for international recognition of her work and the work to protect specifically the plummeting numbers of gorillas. So by this time, a lot of people knew her name. During this time, as she was building her framework for her research foundation, doing research herself, she obtained a PhD from Cambridge and then was now Dr Dian and continued more research through Cornell University. However, here on Lady History we have to cover the bad or the ugly. And… So… Look at the show notes for more, but I'll just give you the gist of why her as a conservationist wasn't necessarily a great woman. Like the two didn't have to blend. You can be a great conservationist but a shitty human being. Because in the eyes of the local Rwandans, they were often offended by the way she treated them. This is really like, reading this back I feel– I am getting such– just nervousness I– these are not my words, these are hers. So she would kind of call like a group meeting and go down the list of things and she just turned to locals and be like “my Africans.” It's not great. Even if it's like a little bit racist, it’s still racist. There's also instances of people not being paid on time, but I couldn't find concrete evidence more on like the foundation and research headquarters as a whole, because like she obviously, while was the head, she's not the only person in charge of things, like that’s not how like, a budding foundation worked. Many people– this is like a heavily debated topic in the fields of like how much praise do we give her because she had… she was racist at times, and she was discriminatory. But she did make these huge contributions and the lives of like endangered gorillas. She did devote much of her life to protect the “gentle gorillas” as she would call them from the human and environmental hazards. Unfortunately, her life was cut short because on December 26, 1985, she was found hacked to death. And a lot of this was kind of like circumstantial because they have not found the guilty party and prosecuted them for murder, but they believe that she was murdered by poachers at her Rwandan forest camp. Yeah, Alana’s face is dropped. It took a turn.

Lexi: You’ve never seen Gorillas in the Mist?

Alana: No!

Haley: So I watched Gorillas in the Mist, and I get to that, it's in her legacy. But my mom like turned it off or somehow– I don't remember this ending. I didn't remember that she died. And I read it again and I was like racism… Murder!

Lexi: She did that classic mom thing where you turn off the bad part of the movie.

Haley: I really think that’s what happened.

Lexi: I didn’t know there was a second VHS tape to the Sound of Music for twenty years.

(Alana laughing)

Lexi: Because the Nazis! And I’m German, so I wasn’t allowed to know there were Nazis.

Alana: Oh, that’s such a big problem!

Haley: Yeah, yeah. As you all know I like to just add a little bit of the legacy, and her legacy is still living through the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund International, formerly named the Digit Fund, that's also linked in the show notes. Otherwise the book she wrote in 1983, Gorillas in the Mist, was turned into a movie, as Lexi said, which starred Sigourney Weaver in 1988. I don't know. I'm kind of stuck on this girl, on whether like, I think she's a great– she's definitely not a great human, personally, but like her contributions to science. But I just want to provide all information and be like… and let's respect that she did help the gorillas out, but probably did it in a way that we all cringe now.

(Archival music)

Alana: We've been talking about zookeepers, zoologists, primatologists, you know, that's the theme of the episode. But I feel like we're leaving a key demographic out of this discussion. So my lady for today is Koko the gorilla.

Haley: What?

Alana: Yeah.

Lexi: Fantastic.

Haley: I'm so on board for this.

Alana: Gorilla ladies are ladies.

Haley: I'm speechless

Alana: I’m so glad.

Haley: Bravo. This is fabulous, I’m excited.

Alana: Thank you. I'm also excited. So Koko was born on July 4, 1971 and her full name was Hanabi-ko which means fireworks child. And as I'm saying it I'm realizing that that's a Fourth of July reference… like, fireworks. I just got that. Isn’t that fun. And she was born at the San Francisco Zoo. She was a western lowland gorilla who– they have the best Latin name ever it's gorilla gorilla gorilla. And another woman, Dr Francine “Penny” Patterson, started working with her on sign language in 1972 when Koko was only a year old. And then Dr Patterson started the Gorilla Foundation in the Santa Cruz Mountains in 1979. Koko learned a lot of sign language. She knew at least a thousand signs and probably understood about two thousand words because Dr Patterson would talk while she was signing. And that's about the vocab of a toddler. but also like what are non human animals but toddlers? Because I walk a dog, her name is Missy, I love her very much– if she won't leave the park with me, you do that thing that you do with three year olds– “okay bye Missy”– and you walk towards the gate. And what does she do, every single time, she comes running up to me. I say “bye Missy” then she comes. Really what are animals but toddlers. She had a companion named Michael who was rescued from the jungles of Africa and they were supposed to be a breeding pair because it seemed like Koko really wanted a family, in addition to western lowland gorillas being an endangered species. And that's that whole thing about gorillas getting on airplanes with the keepers and private jets, that we were talking about earlier. They didn't actually end up breeding they just became best friends. Like just best friends and they were playmates and it was very fun. He was also learning sign language and potentially learned how to tell the story of watching his mother get killed by poachers. Which… you can learn a little bit more about that I'll leave a link to that in the show notes. So Michael died of a heart condition that's very common in gorillas, and they brought in a second breeding partner whose name was Ndume... also learned sign language. Koko did get pregnant, but she had a miscarriage and couldn't get pregnant after that. So, similar to Lexi’s lady. So instead they got her kittens. Lexi is so happy about this. This is the best story ever. In 1984–

Lexi: Kittens… I’m sorry.

Alana: I know!

Lexi: It’s just so cute!

Alana: I know! In 1984 she adopted a kitten named All Ball that she named, by signing, because she apparently loved rhyming words in sign language. And that inspired a book called “Koko's Kitten” and it's a little kids’ book and it's still in elementary schools all over. But then the cat got hit by a car and died, which is too bad. But for her forty fourth birthday, in 2015, they got her two more kittens and she named them Miss Gray and Miss Black because they were gray and black. Here's where the story gets maybe not as fun. In 2005 Koko kind of got Me Too’d? Three employees at the foundation, three other keepers claimed that Koko asked them to lift their shirts and show her their nipples, which Dr Patterson encouraged. They settled out of court, but like they were sued. That is kind of weird, but– and I was a little bit in disbelief– but also Robin Williams, who famously met her in 2001, talked about her doing that to him. It's just– it's jarring. So that's all very Tiger King, except Dr Patterson is actually like a scientist and has published real papers and isn't horrible. When Michael died, Koko actually expressed grief for him, the same thing when Robin Williams died. The Nat Geo article announcing her death, they had a quote from some guy who really had the audacity to talk shit about zoos while they were talking about how Koko died. And this person was like “yeah she did all these cool things for science but also she shouldn’t have been in a zoo.”And I was like oh my god… Let the people mourn an icon. But she is also– Koko herself has had a lasting legacy. She expanded how we think about animals and language. Like humans have to keep adding to the definition of language so that we can exclude how other species communicate. And some people think that she was only mirroring Dr Patterson or Dr Patterson and her associates were projecting, but Koko signed to herself and there's video in a 60 Minutes Australia segment where she's signing to herself. She has a hat, that is a flowered hat, it's a flower bucket hat. It's real cute, it's something baby Alana would absolutely have worn. And so she's signing “flower” and “hat” to herself. She would also invent signs. Like, she didn’t have a word for “ring” so when she saw Dr Patterson wearing a ring, she signed “finger bracelet” which is pretty much what a ring is. So I just think that Koko… it's a lot that we can learn about grief, and how animals express grief, and how we express grief, and how we can communicate with things. Because animals absolutely learn words. Like we teach dogs words. We teach them– you know– sit, stay, all that. So they know some human words. You can teach animals words in whatever language you speak. There's a dog who comes to the park who speaks Spanish. His name is also Coco! I don't think it's the same kind of Koko though, but. Yeah so that's the story of Koko. I'm so glad you guys liked my surprise.

Lexi: I love it. I'm a big nerd about the whole Koko situation because I am a big nerd about animals talking. Linguistic anthropology has always fascinated me, and I think it extends to animals, and a lot of anthropologists don't think it should extend to animals. But I read this book in high school, because I was reading all the books about birds I could possibly find because I had one, I have one still. And the book is called “Alex and Me” and–

Haley: I know that book.

Lexi: The person who is the scientist in that story was inspired by the Koko experiments to do something similar with a bird, and because birds don't have hands, it was vocal- completely vocal communication. And the bird learned to say phrases and even once asked an existential question. So… he asked “what color Alex” which is technically an existential question. And that's how he learned what the color gray was, because he was gray. So that's really interesting that animals do that stuff.

Haley: So my grandparents, I believe I've talked about this before, basically got a male and female cockatiel, started breeding them, and would often give them to their friends as like “hey you're really old, you live alone, here's a friend.” And I remember visiting one of their friends who had one of these birds and the bird would just start talking. And like she taught the bird how to speak, I– at least Spanish, because they're all Spanish speakers. And the bird I think was like a bilingual bird. Because I think he would respond to me and I'd speak English to it. And this bird would just like talk and be like “hello. How are you?” And I just remember as like a small child being like “this bird's talking to me. I thought this was just in movies.”

Lexi: There’s actually a lot of evidence that birds know their names too because parrots, specifically, their moms give each baby a name that's a sound, and while they don't sound like human names, each baby has a sound that is associated with them. So when we raise a parrot in captivity and we call it it's name, it learns it has a name which is–

Haley: Yes.

Lexi: Really, really cool.

Haley: We had them–

Alana: That is amazing.

Haley: –before cockatiels.

Lexi: You can find this podcast on Twitter and Instagram at LadyHistoryPod. Our show notes and a transcript of the show will be on ladyhistory pod dot tumblr dot com. If you like the show, leave us a review and tell your friends, and if you don't like the show, keep it to yourself.

Alana: Our logo is by Alexia Ibarra, you can find her on Instagram and Twitter at LexiBDraws. Our theme music is by me, GarageBand and Amelia Earhart. Lexi is doing the editing. You will not see us, and we will not see you, but you will hear us, next time, on Lady History.

[OUTRO MUSIC]

Haley: Next week on Lady History, it's the witching hour. We’ll be casting a spell on you and discussing some women of witchcraft, women of vampirism you name it, it's spooky season, and we're here to celebrate.

Alana: Dogs are liberal because they love people, cats are liberal because they're smart.

Lexi: Yes. Mhmm. All animals are liberals.

Haley: I also believe dogs can't be evil.

#feminist history #womens history #feminism #history

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