#esp when these categories are also meant for PARENTS not just kids

[dyketectivecomics]

Orion? Would these be better in a rev log format?

Gonna answer these rapid fire all at once real quick bc Tis Late and also u sent in so many Chris aksjak love that!!!

1) LICHERALLY HAS THE BIGGEST BAD FOR A DAD SO YEAH U RITE

2) I feel like Azrael as a concept is way more??? Avenging Angel than outright assassin? Or at least that like. Assassin kids might need to be their own category??? Or maybe we can group Costumed Assassin’s kids vs Regular Assassin’s kids into their own groups??? Idk. It’s a lot to think abt but also I don’t think Jean-Paul’s dad was like. I don’t think he reveled in Being Bad either. Azraels think they’re carrying out a holy mission. Whereas most of these other Bad™️ parents are like, self-aware of their Villain status yknow?

3) mafias it’s own can of worms, and also I will not stand for Bertinelli family slander in this house ;-; Helena loved her dad even when she grew up to Realize what being in the mafia Meant

3b) Again, Lex n Lena eeeehhhhh. Their dad wasn’t a villain. He just Sucked and was Awful akdjks (very Cool Motive, Still Murder for their respective Evilness™️ levels if a writer uses the ‘and they were abused :’( sad’ excuse like??? Are you trying to redeem them or otherwise what are u trying to say abt victims of abuse??? Idk I question writers motives in those instances more than I would be concerned abt whether they’re in the club yknow?)

4) OKAY AGREED ON EVERYTHING ABT HADES THERE AKSJAK. real talk I was an Edgy Boi when I went thru my Percy Jackson phase in middle/high school so I fucking LOVED how JL/JLU changed Diana’s story just so subtly like that. I still eat it to pieces aksj. But ye no, the gods (esp Zeus) all perpetually suck as parents, but none of them are like. 100% evil, so none can really truly qualify imo 😔😔😔 Diana n Cassie are outta the running 😔😔😔

[firebirdsdaughter]

Small things that kill me…

… The look on Vergil’s face when Nero gives the ‘Dante’s not going to die up here and neither are you’ speech.

Honestly… Just all of his interactions w/ Nero in that scene.

Vergil’s a fucking dumbass who has no clue how to person at this point, he’s a complete wreck who may or may not have known he had a kid before the whole incident w/ Mundus, but now he’s even less equipped to deal w/ it, he has precious little if any practice not being at the least indifferent at the most hostile…

I think one of Vergil’s big issues is indifference, to the consequences for his actions, especially for others, for what others think, for himself in many ways… While V did develop a bit, enough to realise splitting himself in half caused massive, destructive consequences for countless people. Sure, maybe he couldn’t have predicted (which I don’t think he did) that Urizen would go that bonkers, but setting half a demon loose on the world would generally be a bad idea, to say nothing of ripping someone’s arm off in order to do so (the extreme indifference again, causing him to be unable to properly ask for help—I don’t think he enjoyed or ‘wanted’ to ‘hurt’ Nero, but the consequences never crossed his mind; to him, it was just something he had to do to survive, that was all that mattered). And that’s all a result of what he went through ever since the attack—I have this whole ramble about how I think his and Dante’s fighting styles reflect the (both unhealthy in their own way) way in which they reacted to that traumatic event—but bc he’s been fending for himself since eight, w/ only the Yamato on hand, he’s downright dangerously/extremely self sufficient/obsessed with being completely self reliant. Like the Phantom of the Opera’s ‘the world showed no compassion to me’ except really. His entire life was just about getting through the day, he had it drilled into him by experience that he could only truly trust himself, that he needed to be able to do things entirely on his own—to the point that even after being ripped apart, pretty much literally, by Mundus, he still can’t ask for help. It is a result of his trauma, but it means he has very limited skill in thinking of other people. Like, if we get a future game w/ him as one of the protags, I feel like that would be something he’d absolutely struggle w/, being more aware of others. That it would take him twice as long to react/do things that might take others like Dante or Nero a moment bc he has to actively make himself think about others, forcibly train himself to do that.

Anyway, I’m going off topic. My thought is… Vergil’s definitely not, at first glance, or even second glance, or third, parent material. I love the character, he’s a walking disaster. He’s no good at thinking of others, and is indifferent to what others think of him. I think he still loved Dante in his own, very damaged way, but he’d rallied himself against that feeling for so long, considered it weakness and shut it out, that he likely won’t be able to express it in any understandable way for a long time. And on the inverse, he can’t conceive of, for instance, Dante actually caring about him—like… He doesn’t think he matters to anyone either, puts no emotional value in himself. If that makes any sense? Like… Even when he does encounter compassion, he rejects and suspects it… Dante is a weird case, but I do see Vergil not understanding that he matters to anyone. He’s indifferent to everyone, including himself, and he doesn’t expect any more care or affection from others than he shows—like he’s not one of those jerks who expects people to like him despite being a jerk, he’s just largely given up on relationships (he either thinks they only bring pain, or that, like his softer feelings for Dante, they are weakness).

And I think he went up there to die. Pride and stubbornness prevented him from surrendering, but he had at least some idea of the enormity of the consequences of his actions. At the least, he knew he’d majorly fucked up and caused a lot of pain. I think his intentions were similar to that of Griffon and crew—face Dante one last time, fight all out bc his own pride wouldn’t let him do any less, and leave it up to fate. I don’t think he expected to kill Dante, just that he couldn’t not fight his hardest, out of respect and bc it was his nature. But he had no illusions over his probability of survival. The only reason he did throw the sheath away this time was that it wasn’t a ‘suicidal blaze of glory’ like I think fighting Mundus might’ve been, but more of a trial by combat, to him. Dante, meanwhile, was just assuming/accepting that he was going to have to take his brother out again, and he likely wasn’t planning on ever coming back from that, either (which I don’t think Vergil realised), either by dying in the fight, too, or going into hell on his own.

But then Nero shows up. Now I think V and therefore Vergil were at least aware that Nero and Dante mattered to each other, bc Dante’s the kind and caring one and Nero’s a good kid. Like, I’m sure he was aware of that.

I don’t think he’s surprised Nero interrupted (that form probably was unexpected, but Nero objecting in general or trying to rejoin the fighting wasn’t completely unthinkable) or that Nero was defending Dante.

I think what catches him off guard is the ‘and neither are you.’

He ripped Nero’s arm off and then knowingly deceived him as V, and on top of that, turns out Nero is his son who he pretty much abandoned (like we don’t know the details of when and why Vergil left, or if he knew, but the fact is, he made choices that resulted in him not being there for Nero). And that’s to say nothing of all the hell Urizen caused. Basically, a list of things that would generally result in Nero falling into the same category as everyone else—another burned bridge, another person who hates him, and Vergil is quick to close doors. He expects no consideration from Nero, no more than he’s shown, and V was aware they had horribly hurt Nero (esp since V was weaponising Nero’s issues surrounding that).

But instead of just completely writing Vergil off like Vergil expects, Nero extends this declaration of ‘not dying’ to him as well. Sure, Vergil immediately tries to throw up the usual prideful walls what w/ that ‘if I beat Nero I win by default’ stuff, but then he later tries to get Nero to stand down rather than continuing the fight, saying it has nothing to do w/ him [Nero], and then his reaction to Nero’s ‘it has everything to do w/ me’… He just doesn’t know how to react to Nero? He expects one thing, but Nero just keeps defying his assumptions (which takes some mighty powerful heart and compassion on Nero’s part bc while I do see Vergil as incredibly tragic and don’t think he’s fully ‘responsible’ for Urizen’s actions, Nero doesn’t have a lot of that info, but he’s making the decision that this is fucked up and no family of his is going to kill each other—so anyway while I do love me the angsty drama dads, let me just say I love Nero, too).

It’s with Nero that bits of his awkward, ‘tsundere’ side come out, ever so slightly. He and Dante have trapped themselves in a pattern, Dante bc he’s Tired and has just resigned himself to the necessity of it an wants to get it over w/ and Vergil bc at his core he’s afraid to try anything else bc he sees it as weakness. But I said this before, I think Nero being his son and Nero being… How Nero is, all heart and and good and warm and compassionate, to the point that he’s defying not just the ‘inevitability’ of Vergil and Dante being at odds, but literally fighting to save him, after all he’s done… I think that meant something.

Obviously, it’s not going to be simple or easy, and I do think that, now that he’s been given hope that he can get through to Vergil and not have to kill him (which I think he’d concluded was a sort of mercy kill?), Dante is the best person for Vergil to get used to his emotions etc. w/ bc they have that deep understanding of each other and what happened, esp now, but… I love how Nero cracked his shell there? Like… He’s not really prepared for it, but I think I can see Vergil wanting to at least try to be some kind of parental, esp after he’d recovered a bit more? And I do think he’d also respect if Nero ultimately told him to get lost (although I can seem him, like, watching from afar or something), even now, bc again w/ the whole I think he has no expectations of what others think of him, but… I do see him wanting (and maybe having trouble accepting that he wants it, at first) to be part of Nero’s life in some way? Esp in a vein of… Wanting to preserve Nero’s ‘goodness’ for lack of a deeper word? Bc I can see a slightly more recovered post dmc5 Vergil not wanting his son to fall down the same holes he did. Like, they’ve all gone through trauma, and lost people, but Vergil is now very aware that he ended up hurting and even killing people and very nearly destroying himself and going absolute monster, to the point his twin brother, who understood him on another level, in their own way, resigned to having to kill him to stop it (I genuinely think for all his talk, Dante did see it as a bit of a mercy kill, the only way he could preserve the last shreds of the brother he loved and keep Vergil from actually going Full Urizen [V even existing means that Vergil wasn’t completely gone, but I think he was on thin ice]). Dante’s already dragged into this by the very same events that placed him there, but Nero has a chance not to be, which I think was part of his ‘this has nothing to do w/ you’ thing, and I totally see Vergil following that sentiment and wanting to keep Nero from ever turning out like him. 

Vergil’s probably never going to be ‘nice’ or very good at empathy or things like that. It may forever take him more willpower to think about others. He may need to start small (like just Nero and/or Dante). He’ll probably still be insensitive for years to come. He’ll never be able to be as easily open and compassionate as Nero and Dante. And he knows he can’t change the past, can’t undo the Arkham incident, or what he did to Nero, or the fact that his stubbornness, pride, inability to ask for help, obsessive habits, and indifference/inconsideration for consequences had calamitous results. He’s not magically good or saved bc he has a kid, but I think even just knowing about and seeing Nero act the way he did resonated w/ something he thought he’d lost a long time ago. Nero and V’s interactions have a whole new light for him now. I absolutely think if Dante’s willing the twins should stick together bc they balance each other, Dante can watch him, won’t take his shit, and wants to help him be better, but… I think even if that didn’t happen… There’s a chance just knowing Nero exists and is so… Good could enough of a catalyst for Vergil to find a different way to live, even on his own. Like there’s a sense of pride? Not in the vein of taking responsibility for Nero turning out as good as he did, but, like, in the way people sometimes say ‘I’m sorry’ like ‘I’m sorry that you are sad’ as in ‘I am expressing sympathy for your sadness.’ Pride that Nero has achieved this, and is strong in his own right. If that makes sense.

He will always be rather an asshole. But, esp if he has some support for his issues and someone watching him… He can do better. Like… Do better. He’ll always be stiffer and pricklier than everyone else, he’ll probably be more pragmatic, think more w/ logic than w/ heart. Emotions and empathy and compassion will always be hard.

But those interactions (and, honestly, that whole ending, even more honestly, the themes of  the whole game), def gave me the impression that he could absolutely do better.

… I just went on a total stream of consciousness ramble, so, uh, virtual treat of your choice if you read all that.

[flying-elliska]

What are the important bisexual characters that you said helped you? I am having a hard time finding good bi representation in which they aren’t considered promiscuous or unstable

Hiya anon ! What a quality question, thank you ! Here’s another mini essay about bi rep lmao.  If there are some that I forgot please tell me ! And to everyone, tell me about the bi characters who made an impact on your life, I’d love to know !!!!

Okay so.

-  When I answered the anon and talked about the characters that helped me come to terms with my sexuality, I talked about two in particular. Jack Harkness from Torchwood is depicted as very promiscuous, and somewhat instable. He still meant a lot to me because a) him sleeping around was never that much of a problem, it was because he was from the future, where things were different, which I thought was refreshing and b) his instability was because of the weight of being an immortal hero. Also fanon!Dean Winchester from SPN, as an older, more macho, emotionally witholding, badass dude written as bi meant a lot to me, but he doesn’t really avoid that stereotype either. But at least they were heroes.  However, I can understand wanting bi characters that actually don’t fit that stereotype, because bi people irl aren’t all like that, even if there is nothing wrong per se about sleeping with a lot of different people, or having mental issues to struggle with. And that was a while ago and now we have more and more cool characters ! Such as :

- Rosa Diaz from Brooklyn Nine-Nine. One of the best portrayals of bisexuality on TV imho. She didn’t start out as bi, she was this tough, cool, scary but with a heart of gold cop who had a lot of other plotlines before. But then, since they saw that a lot of wlw got this vibe from her, were really into her, and the actress came out as bi herself, they decided to use this. So it was super organic, and the way they introduced the subject was true to Rosa herself ; she’s a super private person, she doesn’t like anybody knowing about her life (it’s actually a running joke and Rosa Diaz has been implied to not even be her real name). But then she is dating a woman, and struggles with her parents not understanding and her coworkers find out, help her and support her. Her gay captain is there for her in his typical stoic but hilarious way. They organize game night with her when her parents won’t anymore. We see her crushing on women and dating, but it is treated exactly as the other character’s love life, they never make a big deal out of it. She isn’t the token queer character. She says outright she is bisexual and there is a specific point about her mom not understanding it’s not a phase and thinking she’ll end up with a man anyway, which #relatable. The focus is on the team as found family. Also right now she’s dating a butch woman, which is awesome since they are so underrepresented on TV and I hope we see more of her. That show really is my comfort show, it’s still bloodly hilarious and it really transcends the format to say some really deep woke stuff too, but never in a way that feels on the nose. Everyone should watch it tbh. 

- Korrasami ! Oh my god, I was so blown away when they got together. They’re two characters from the animated series Legend of Korra, they start out as rivals in love who have feelings for the same guy, but as they have to fight baddies together, they become bestest of friends, and both fall out of love with the guy. Then in season 3 and 4, their relationship becomes central to the show, as Asami stands by Korra through some really tough shit. Also, they’re both ultra badass and fight really well together. A lot of fans started reading their chemistry as romantic, but we’d never thought they’d actually go there. But the show ends with them walking into the ‘sunset’ (well, the spirit lands) together, holding hands. Now, it was never completely explicit on the show BUT they were dealing with a lot of censure from the networks and you have to be willingly obtuse not to read it as romantic. And after that the creators drew them on dates, and there is a comic series in which they are shown kissing, talking about their feelings, introducing each other to their families, etc. It made me feel so validated when it happened, and I just adore the whole ‘love triangle ditches the middle one and fall in gay love with each other’ trope. (is it a trope yet ? it should be.) It’s still a kids show at its core, but it has amazing depth and deals with some very deep shit. Korra starts off as a bit annoying but she has a really cool development, she’s a girl character we need more of - brave, dynamic but also brash and reckless and action driven in ways that are almost always exclusively shown for boys. And Asami is a more typical girly girl but she’s also a brilliant engineer and has a spine of steel and she’s also very slyly funny. They’re amazing. And the comics are super cute. 

- Now there are a lot of characters who are bi/pan that I love, and are good characters in themselves, but their arcs do intersect in some ways with promiscuity and mental instability. I’m thinking about Even from Skam and all his remake variants, Magnus Bane from Shadowhunters, several characters from Black Sails, Sarah Lance and Constantine from Legends of Tomorrow, Eleanor Shellstrop from the Good Place, Bo from Lost Girl, Ilana from Broad City, Joe McMillan from Halt and Catch Fire, God/Chuck from Supernatural (lmaooooo), several characters on Penny Dreadful, or in a totally different category, Vilanelle from Killing Eve or Hannibal from the series (who are hella bad guys but it’s never linked to their sexuality, and are also incredibly compelling to watch.)

 And even though these characters taken individually, I would argue, are good rep because they’re complex and layered and interesting and never one-dimensional (and watching them feels incredibly empowering at times)....it’s still a trend. I feel like when writing a character that is attracted to multiple genders, there is always this sort of...tangle of tropes that writers default to, unconsciously. Some negative and some positive. It used to be this trope of bis being villainous, instable, jealous, flaky, immature, perverted, manipulative, cheaters, amoral, greey, etc...and then it evolved into something of a reclaiming and subverting this trope. So now you feel like the Bi Character kind of has to be badass, glamorous, seductive, often superpowered or extraordinary in other ways.. And they also for multiple reasons (they’re immortal, they’re sensitive artist souls, they’re from the future, they’re psycho, they’re exccentric comic relief, they’re daring adventurers and pioneers) don’t care about social norms which allows them to sleep and fall in love with whomever. And so they tend to have those super busy romantic/sexual histories and very troubled backstories. In the past it was a bad thing, now it’s often presented as this positive, enlightened or at least fun and badass thing. They’re heroic, with big hearts, a tremendous lust for life and a cool rebellious attitude. They’re complex, dramatic, tortured. Which can be super cool, too. 

But it would be nice to have more ‘normal’ bi characters. I mean, boring bisexuals need to see themselves represented too ! Our sexualities don’t give us super powers. At the same time, it is true that bisexual ppl have higher rates of mental illness, which deserves to be explored, but it would be nice if it was actually articulated and not just part of this trope.  But still. We need rep, I think, that is more grounded and varied. So I think that’s also why I read a lot of fanfic. (I was really into the idea of bi Steve Rogers for a long time, partly also because he’s both very mentally resilient, kinda boring in a good way, and very unexperienced in terms of sex/romance, which is pretty much the opposite of the trope)

- I think books, and YA in general, are a good place to find these ‘normal bis’ characters. I’m thinking in particular of Leah from Leah on the Offbeat by Becky Albertalli (from the same book series that gave us the ‘Love, Simon’ movie) which is a super sweet coming of age/romance story about a super normal teenager who just happens to be also into girls (esp her best friend) and is loud and funny and very lovable and has zero doubts about being bi. You also have Adam Parrish from the Raven Cycle, another one of my forever faves ; he has an abusive family so PTSD from that but it never feels tropey, and it’s completely detached from his sexuality. He has magic powers, too. But his character feels completely opposite to the trope. He’s hardworking, somewhat withholding, prickly (and sometimes awkward), ambitious, determined, down to earth, and has a beautiful love story with another boy. And also Jane, from Jane Unlimited by Kristin Cashore, also really cool ; she’s a nerdy, smart girl who is actually inspired by Jane Eyre who has cool adventures in a weird house where we can follow her on different paths depending on the choices she makes, several of which are love stories. And finally the main character from The Seven Husbands from Evelyn Hugo, kinda fits the trope yeahhh since she’s a super glam actress who well, has seven husbands but it’s a pretty clever deconstruction since it turns out (slight spoilers) that Evelyn is actually through most of her life faithful in heart to the same person and the rest is mostly out of necessity, and her story feels very real and raw and down to earth. 

- I don’t go there yet but I really want to check out Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and Schitt’s Creek which I have read have very good bi rep. And I want to catch up on Orphan Black (Cosima and Delphine both don’t have exact labels but they’re multi-gender attracted and they’re this cool couple of scientists in a relationship that gets a happy ending). I will never forgive what they did to Lexa so I stopped watching but I do think that Clarke Griffin from The 100 is very good bi rep. Alexia from Skam France, meanwhile, is a bit of a boundary case for me because, even though she’s presented as the ‘weird one’ from the group, very colorful and liberated and exccentric, she’s still a very normal teen who’s happy and comfortable in her own skin, which is awesome. 

- Disclaimer, I included characters in here that are also pan/omnisexual or don’t have a label but are attracted to several genders, for the purpose of this discussion i don’t think the difference is all that relevant at least to me (i mostly identify as bi for the sake of simplicity but tbh i could also fit under pan so i feel represented by all those characters). But I understand the importance of characters that state their identities more clearly and with pride. 

- So in conclusion : there is nothing wrong with having a sexually active life or struggling mentally (even tho that one is not fun). And I do love all my badass casanova time travelling super powered bis. 

But we need more bi characters that don’t fit that trope. We need bi characters in children’s shows, or that don’t have more than one relationship, or that don’t have a relationship at all, to break the tendency to always show bisexual ppl as overly sexual. We need bi characters in committed relationships to break this idea that bi characters are bound to cheat or can’t be satisified with only one person. We need bi characters that are mentally stable and successful and happy, to show that it’s possible. We need bi characters that are boring, bookish, nerdy, ordinary, clumsy, not particularly seductive, socially awkward, rule-sticklers, etc...to show that bi people are not all party animals, or doing it for attention, or to be wild, rebellious and socially progressive. It’s just a sexuality, it doesn’t say anything about your personality. Even though there are some correlations with MI or being bi might bring you in contact with more progressive ideas and to see life a bit differently, there is nothing automatic about it. 

- In conclusion, reading testimonies from real people also helped me a lot. It’s a very dated but I got the book “ Bi Any Other Name: Bisexual People Speak Out “ when I was struggling with my own sexuality and it helped a lot, to read that even back then (1991) you had all sorts of regular ppl claiming to be bi and that it was not a phase or a fad or whatever.