#eight kids that she hasn't lostyet in chara's time

[stainedglassthreads]

I really dislike Chara as a scheming mastermind who MEANT to poison Asgore and ALWAYS intended to get a boss monster soul and have their revenge for a number of reasons that I’ve seen discussed by other people, and have occasionally discussed myself, but there’s one reason that I haven’t seen talked about as often that I’ve been thinking about lately. 

That being, in order for Chara to have had these kinds of intentions all along, Toriel and Asgore would have to be... less than fully competent leaders, shall we say. And I hate how this interpretation of Chara makes these nuanced and interesting characters into flat and naive fools in order to prop up a this kid as a competent evil mastermind. 

Elaborations below cut. 

It’s widely known and accepted that Chara was the first fallen child. THE first human to fall. Meaning that before Chara, the last interaction monsters would have had with humanity is... that’s right. The war between humans and monsters. The one where, according to monsters’ own recollection, humans slaughtered them in a short timeframe without taking any casualties at all, and then sealed them Underground to rot indefinitely. 

Toriel and Asgore are the king and queen of monsterkind. They have a duty not only to cheer up their people, but also to lead and guide them, to safeguard and defend them. They are not just glorified mascots, we see a number of Asgore’s past efforts towards breaking the barrier-- not just in collecting human souls personally, but also forming the Royal Guard and training Undyne, and in commanding Alphys to research souls. We also see him more involved with his people on a smaller-scale level, giving speeches in Monster Kid’s school. Monsters have schools at all, something Toriel personally may have been invested and involved in, as she says she has always wanted to be a teacher. 

So we know that Asgore is a fairly active and beloved leader, and we know Toriel was renowned for being ‘the brains behind the throne’, meaning she was perhaps an even more competent leader than Asgore, if not quite as beloved. We know that Asgore also cares deeply for the happiness and safety of his people, with how much he sacrifices and torments himself in pursuing the war with humanity. But perhaps they just had no fucking idea that humans are so dangerous until now! After all, it’s only wildly popular fanon that Asgore and Toriel lived through the war, some Winter Alarm Clock Dialogue implies Asgore may have not been old enough to fight in the war at all! A good guess... if not for how the Waterfall Plaques are RIGHT FUCKING THERE IN THE UNDERGROUND WITH THE MONSTERS, DETAILING THE HISTORY OF THE HUMAN-MONSTER WAR IN ALL ITS BLOODY GLORY.

Not to mention, these plaques also speculate the reason WHY the war could have begun-- the power of soul absorption. These plaques are hung on the wall of Waterfall, where any passerby could easily see them. So it’s not like what happens when you absorb a human soul was Secret Knowledge only Chara could have known-- all of monsterkind is at least generally aware soul absorption Exists, and a smart monster could probably extrapolate if Human Souls give monsters a boost, a human absorbing Monster Souls and gaining some power isn’t IMpossible. 

So, Asgore is deeply concerned with the happiness and safety of his people. Toriel is a competent and intelligent leader. The records of their history exist in the Underground with them. The most recent memory monsters have of humans is a one-sided slaughter followed by indefinite imprisonment. All of this points to monsters being extremely wary and fearful of humans. Especially since, we see from Frisk’s fall monsters are absolutely CAPABLE of emotions like fear, anger, outrage, and attacking innocents. I imagine there must have been a period of time, however short, where Chara was under intense scrutiny from the monsters. And even if Asgore and Toriel were dangerously neglectful and uncaring of their subjects, they have even more personal stakes in the whole affair by personally caring for Chara. 

They have a son who isn’t as strong as them, and is just as softhearted as his father without having seen the human-monster war. 

A son who they express excitement for the birth of, to the point Toriel wakes Asgore up in the middle of the night to tell him motherhood puns. They don’t just see him as an heir, they’re boss monsters who, without kids, do not age. They have no need for an heir to succeed them in the same way humans do. They had this child because they wanted a kid, they wanted one bad enough they were okay with aging and dying and leaving the throne in someone else’s hands. To be so neglectful and uncaring of this precious child that they’d accept a human into their hope and not notice changes in Asriel’s behavior... immensely bothers me and seems kind of out of character, between how much their care for their subjects, how competent Toriel was supposed to be, and how much they must have cared for ASRIEL. Considering how fragile monsters are, they must have at least been concerned Chara might roughhouse a little too hard with Asriel, who has never had a sibling before. 

Even when Chara poisons Asgore, and they KNOW it was the kids who did it because Asriel says ‘Mom got mad’-- why the hell would she be mad over some random illness??-- they still assume the best from Chara. (And this is using personal experience a little-- but I personally had no idea buttercups were poisonous until I was about seventeen. Asriel also had no idea, and even if you disbelieve NarraChara, Chara lives with Toriel, who LOVES wordplay. Even if it’s ambiguous, I still think it extremely plausible they also had no idea.) 

So, they still have all the reason in the world to assume the world of humanity, and this child HAS, intentionally or not, managed to harm a major political figure beloved by all his subjects. The monsters still don’t turn on Chara. Quite the opposite-- Chara brings them HOPE. 

I don’t think Chara was a saint, Asriel said they weren’t the best person for a reason. But I genuinely don’t think they meant to hurt the monsters or Dreemurrs. They had a way to hurt Asgore, they had Asriel idolizing them-- if they only came to the Underground seeking power and power alone, and if Toriel and Asgore truly were so ignorant of their faults, wouldn’t it be ridiculously easy to kill Asriel and take him soul? Hell, wouldn’t it be easy to stab Asgore in the heart while he’s weak from poison, take his soul, and then kill everyone who tries to kill or imprison them? 

But they don’t. 

They choose a slow and painful method of killing themself. And even afterwards... 

Asgore talks about the Hope in Chara’s eyes, on a run where Frisk doesn’t kill anyone, and compares them to Frisk. Toriel keeps adopting and trying to protect fallen humans. 

Even after Chara poisoned their father, even after humans killed their son... The words and actions of the Dreemurrs still show they think fondly of Chara. Even the monsters who eagerly try to kill Frisk and talk about how hyped they are for the imminent destruction of humanity seem to fondly remember Chara. Even Alphys, who has the tapes about Chara’s plan in the True Lab, doesn’t go ‘wow, Chara was a gross human being, maybe humanity’s kinda shitty actually, maybe everyone should know what a gross person their beloved former royal was’ 

She says Asgore maybe shouldn’t see those tapes, probably because he’s a grieving father who she doesn’t want to hurt more, but is still a massive fan of humans, and wants to set herself up as Frisk’s helpful friend and ally. 

Monsters had every reason to hate, fear, and shun Chara. And we know from the No Mercy run it’s very easy to accumulate LV and decimate the monster population, even going so far as to oneshot both Toriel and Asgore. Monsters who survived the war, like Gerson, must have been fully aware of things like this, and as Chara was the FIRST fallen human, perhaps more monsters who survived the war were alive back them. But for all their faults, Chara is only remembered fondly, by everyone who knew them. Or at the very least, those who personally remember them remember them not as a saint or a demon, or even as a ‘human’, but as a kid who shouldn’t have died. I still think that speaks volumes, and does a disservice to Asgore and Toriel’s characters to have them duped so thoroughly by, well... a kid.