#edit: I noticed for some reason I said 'uthodurn arc in issylra' which is obviously. not correct sjdjdkdk

[caeslxys]

"I’ve seen a lot of people say that the Hells will side with the gods and I don’t think I agree. Especially as Imogen has been scolded and villainized over and over for daring to try and save her mother—who herself has been seen by some as an irredeemable evil in spite of her drive being the exact same—her family—but when it’s the Gods it’s justified? When it’s the Gods, it’s sympathetic? Too sympathetic to criticize further than “they’re family”?"

good meta op, but i'm slightly confused about this part. are you talking of the fandom here or the narrative? because from what i've seen and remember, imogen has definitely been scolded or villanized as you say, by the fandom, but has she been treated that way by the hells or anyone else? i guess keyleth comes to mind, but apart from that, the hells seemed supportive of her wanting to reach out and reconcile with her mom.

Prefacing what i'm sure will be an overly long mostly tangent: you obviously do not have to agree with my interpretations of any scene I'm about to bring up and if you don't sick cool please do not make it a problem

A bit of both, to be honest! The use of the word “villainizing” was definitely more geared toward fandom response, but Imogen has absolutely been scolded—or maybe shamed is the better word—in campaign several times! Yes by Keyleth threatening her in front of them all just for being ruidusborn and related to Liliana, but also by Orym in particular several times.

Which is not to say that Orym doesn’t want Imogen to save her mother—obviously he does!—but it has definitely been more than once that he has shut down her grief and her processing her relationship with her mother by inserting his own grief over it, notably in the immediate aftermath of Ruidus and convo with Liliana.

(Which, yes, he immediately apologized for, but I do find it interesting that Imogen got shit from fandom for her response in the scene I'm about to bring up in episode 49 for EVER but no one was allowed to criticize Orym's response as impulsive and insensitive there and he notably was not disassociating or being actively manipulated. Just think it's interesting!)

And while it wasn’t nearly so livid in it’s delivery, that moment in 49 where she was just trying to process seeing her mother and speaking with her and being presented with the idea of peace for the first time in her life was delivered (though you could argue this wasn’t his intent; honestly I don’t think it was, but—) in a way that immediately had her plummeting into self-deprecating apologies for being effectively manipulated. I’ve actually written a bit before about how I find the youth of his grief making it more volatile in comparison to the rest of the hells’ grief deeply compelling as a thematic beat!

That’s a bit of a tangent just bc I find specifically the dynamic between Orym/Imogen/Liliana to be a very compelling one lmao but even in the Uthodurn arc with Chetney insight checking her to see if she was telling the truth or not about her intentions with her mother. Or Fearne bringing up to Orym (also back in 49) the question of what they planned to do with/to her if she turned. It's not that I think, necessarily, that those were ill intentioned but they were coming from a place of, at best, mistrust specifically because of her connection to Liliana. Really only Ashton and Laudna—and FCG, funnily enough—have not in some way taken her grief and yearning and turned against her when it comes to placing their trust in her (whether she was aware they did so or not), which of course speaks to a certain interpretation they had of her character at the time.

And, also, this has obviously since changed and most of them mostly understand where she’s coming from now—especially Orym!—but it doesn’t make the fact that it happened any less true!