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astralartefact · 1 year ago

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NieR Reincarnation The People and the World Amber Spoiler Post & Theory Hour

Mama on Mama on Mama on Mama in this one. And I'm going to look a little bit too deep into that. Far too deep actually.

What can I say. They did a good job with the shitty gacha game. I'm so sorry, but I am once again validated in my opinion that this is the best NieR writing right behind YoRHa:Dark Apocalypse. It's just. Chef's Kiss.

And sure, I still prefer Sun/Moon over People/World as a story since that one just managed to weave the themes so well with the stories and everything whereas this one has certain moments where it doesn't really line up with stuff it has already established (some/many of the stories kind of seem to disregard parts of their hidden/ex stories which feels weird, also where are hina and yuzuki in all of this as rogue cage wanderers, i have a feeling they're not going to address them at all (which imo would be fine but kind of disappointing)), but we're finally getting the lore payoff we know to expect from Drakenier and it feels so good.

And you know, I did notice that all the seasons so far were in two distinct parts that lined up with their name - and as this was obviously the The People part I was wondering before playing this morning what the The World part would be about. But it didn't even occur to me that we could be going to the "Real World"... (Put a Pin in that)

But let's get into it.

Mama meets Accord (who I'm sure somebody has called mommy before)

I mean at this point we know she's coming - we just don't know when and how. I do wonder if these more and more overt mentions of her might be setup for the next NieR/DoD4 because I feel like Accord as a character would be prime real estate for the new big game, but of course it would also make perfect sense for her to show up here, she already has an established presence in the Cage - and I mean she could just do both!

It's interesting to note btw that the coffer that Yudil's story explicitly points out has recently appeared in the most recent Bakuken stage play (the one that's called Finale even though it's not the final one) where a portuguese merchant (The Cathedral City is on the Iberian Peninsula) called Michael (you know, like the Dragon) had it. Of course, they might also just have reused the prop since they made one for the YoRHa stage play Accord appeared in...

Mama meets Mother

She's giving Mother and she's back with a vengeance rhythm game. Amazing. Tens across the board. I love her fascinator head piece.

As the Mother Expert that I call myself I have to point out some things here:

a) What exactly is Mother Mourning? The Watchers have up until now only been described as motivated by a fervent hate of Humanity and anger - the Gods want to claw themselves free of their humanity-imposed seals and devour the world - so why is this version explicitly shown as sad? Her battle dialogue also kind of sounds... betrayed in a way? "Why Protect People? Destroy" and "Our objective. Why?" seem to hint that maybe Mama (points right at the name) was in with Mother this whole time but has now turned against her. And it makes me wonder if the Cage is a way for humanity to enslave the gods they sealed for profit...

But also, given recent Developments in SinoAlice JP's Ending Arc, there's likely something else in the Cage that the Mourning Mother could be talking to. Maybe the thing we saw in that one cutscene is actually protecting humanity?

b) With some of that already in mind I was thinking about her pose and was trying to find some connection to the dance of her Intoner version in the DoD3 Final Boss when it occured to me in a one-two punch: She's shackled. The Cage is for Her. She's what is Caged. And doesn't that sound like a seal that keeps a certain Round Egg at bay that I have an exciting theory for-

Tangent: Mama meets my Round Egg Theory

okay so strap in because it's time to bring up the thing I bring up every chance I get!

We know there's a connection between the Memory Tree and the Moon Server Data through two things:

a) In the Replicant Remaster's new Ending Kainé goes into the Memory Tree's Data to bring Nier back - which of course means that the Memory Tree contains Nier's data. This is important because

b) In YoRHa:Dark Apocalypse (My Love <3) the Red Girls have a Seed (we'll get back to that in a second) - and out of that Seed grows a Tower that contains "Ego Collectives" of People, which is basically the collection of memories that makes up one person.

Now I know that everyone just handwaved that away as a way to have cheap Replicant references as the first two bosses with the Remaster coming up but lol wouldn't that be easy, did you forget who you're dealing with? Because the exact two bosses used (Knave of Hearts and Hänsel and Gretel) means there's only one person this Ego Collective could belong to: Nier, because only he fought Hänsel and Gretel. (let's ignore that Weiss was there too bc that would be a dumb!!! this is much more fun bc of the implications!!!)

And I'm positive that this was intentional because in the remaster ending - in a scene that's eerily similar to the fight in Tower at Paradigm's Breach - Kainé only fights her memory of Gretel without Hänsel, so they knew.

Why does that matter? It doesn't really, I just wanted to bring it up as a little fun fact, but what does matter is that Y:DA establishes that whatever that Seed the Red Girls have recreated is, it also contains all the memories from the Memory Tree, because that's where those memories were recorded. And they were recreating it, which implies there was a basis to recreate. And that was always the big future overarching NieR plot thread that Y:DA left me with - sure, we know this is where it all ends, the Watchers are over now and this time forever through collaboration and power of friendship - but how did we even get here? How did the Red Girls get a Seed to recreate?

And now it fits right in with what's happening, especially now that we know what exactly the Moon Server can do:

The Moon Server/The Cage can peer into different universes - we know that since at least Hina and Yuzuki (Yuzuki knows Reinkane exists as a game but also their EX stories) - but as far as we know the Seeds only exist in Drakengard's Universe. So why do the Red Girls/The Watchers/The Mourning Mother want to get into the Moon Server/Cage so Bad? (It was even sort of highlighted in the Automata Anime where Adam transformed into a giant Reincarnation Mob - implying really hard that the Red Girls/Logic Virus is indeed behind the attacks on the Cage) Well, maybe it's because they want the Round Egg, because they have been separated ever since DoD1's Final Boss and they need it to Dark Apocalypse.

Before this chapter I thought that the entire Memory Tree might have been built from Seeds in the first place and that's why the Red Girls want into the Moon Server to get a basis to copy - I thought it would make sense that humanity somehow got that dimension-crossing technology needed for it out of a Seed - but that would require the NieR world to have Seeds to use for that and we know next to nothing about them so I just kept it in the back of my mind until something else comes along to strengthen it. I also didn't want to base too much on the cross-over one, even if I personally really don't understand why people are so hesitant to call it canon, it's definitely canon, it's one of the few things Yoko Taro is directly credited to have written the past few years and he literally always writes stuff that right away retcons things, so even if it changes details with Automata he has done the exact same thing multiple times now. ("It's not DoD3's Ending A that leads to DoD1, it's the version of Ending A in this specific novella that's basically the same except for one small thing.")

But you know what other tangentially related thing I can bring up that you won't believe I will stuff into this theory? Why yes, It's Yuki Wada's Breakout Hit Voice of Cards: Forsaken Maiden. And fair warning, this is where it gets entirely unfounded. And also spoilers for that game's ending.

I have the long and well-documented theory that the Spirits from VoC:FM might be the Watchers. In that game Maidens need to sacrifice themselves to the Gods so they 'keep humanity save' in return - but it ends with Laty (the female MC) going into an eternal slumber to sort of 'trap' the gods in her everlasting dream so humanity is save without them. And because I always found that very reminiscent of Drakengard 1's Goddesses I theorized that VoC:FM might have been the folkloric 'inception story' of that system, humanity just reiterated on the mechanics of it so it's spread over multiple people instead of one so nobody has to go to sleep forever.

So with that as an foundational thought, what if humanity did that again? What if they extended it again on more people so fewer people have the sort of responsibility Laty or Furiae had? What if they didn't only extend it to a finite number of people - what if they extended it to every human in every dimension that ever experienced any form of prolonged misery (or whatever else the requirements are to end up in the cage lol)

So what if the Cage is the Seal? What if keeping the Seeds locked up is the purpose of the Cage? What if the Cage is a Cage?

And if the Cage is just NieR's Goddess Seals then the Watchers have a really good reason to get in there: The exact same reason as in Drakengard 1.

But I'm not done. Because what if Mama didn't know that. What if Mama just knew there's a server on the moon and basically every single person ever is trapped in it, eternally doomed to relive the most horrible pain and suffering imaginable for some reason - and some figure, a mother figure if you will, told her she could fix their suffering. That she could change the system for the better by giving them hope and respite by giving them an afterlife. But that was a lie. The figure just wanted her to weaken the system built on sin and suffering so she could break through it and reach the Seeds.

What if Mama (points at the name) realised she was tricked by Mother and is now trying to fix her mistakes? And that's why Mother is Mourning, because she betrayed her?

Don't think so. Mama didn't seem all that "remorseful". But maybe something along those lines though.

Depending on SinoAlice JP's ending whatever other being the Library turns out to be might also be involved - maybe the Library is a god that turned away from the Watchers to help humanity and the Cage is instead a way to protect the being that is the Library which in turn protects humanity... That would be a full circle moment to VoC:FM too...

Either way I'm so stoked to find out what's really happening!!!

Mama meets Mama in the Real World

Already talked alot about Mama, but let's just all applaud ourselves for reading the room! We did it! We knew!

Just as theorized she was 10H all along! Probably should go reread her story to see if it still lines up with what I theorized above... And she's pretty. And has almost the same haircut as Hina and Marie. Hmm. Maybe they should have chosen one of the other Marie designs.

(Small correction: I read that last scene wrong, seems like Mama isn't 10H but Pod 006 - but since the character we're getting is 10H I'll still say we were right :3 ...and yeah, we do control the pod in that scene, makes sense, don't know why I went straight to Mama has to be 10H)

What I'm actually more interested in though is where we're going with this. Like what can she even do in the "Real World", doesn't 10H die constantly in her story for disobedience? So she can't be allowed to do all of this, right? I do think a "We rebuild the Cage on Hopes and Dreams" is in order, but the way to get there... ah! Look, it's the Pin I made you keep in mind!

What if they don't go to that Real World. What if they go to our Real World? Hina & Yuzuki - who came from our or at least another Real World - are notably absent from this arc. And that could just be because the true ending being optional makes things harder for the devs to write around and they want the spotlight off of them bc they were the main characters, but still: I would love a chapter or even just a scene of their perspective of what happens to the Cage. I mean what happens to them now that the Cage falls apart? Could Dark Mama and Papa save them just like Mama did with the others? Do we maybe even meet Dark Mama's and Papa's real forms?

But there's another character that immediately comes to my mind when we talk about "the Real World". And it's because of a throwaway line that I never see anybody bring up... mainly because nobody likes Y:DA.

In her final letter to Konogg, Anogg explains that at some point she visited another world (likely when she fell into the Pseudo-Seed) and in doing so she learned that both her and the world are constructs - which implies she knows that a Real World exists from which this world was created. And sure, that could have been a meta-joke about haha video game. But her constructed self also displays several similarities to moments in Noelle's Chapter - which came out vaguely around the same time - and now all of this lines up with what's happening in the Cage. So yeah. What if the ending scene is her emerging from the Cage to save Konogg just like these characters have done this entire arc? All I have to say is #AnoggForReincarnation. She would be perfect. Do it.

#nier reincarnation #nier #drakengard #drakenier #yoko taro

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silvertws · 4 months ago

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I may have watched all of the Descendants movies in one day.......

I'm ok guys, this is a sane thing to do.

Why Descendants if you may ask?

Because yes, songs are ok, Queen of mean is my entire gacha phase so I will of course watch it's origins ^^

Like, I could rant about them but like. You know.

I already forgot everyone's names.

Also wait wtf happened in the fourth movie??????? Where did our beloved golden retriever boy go??? Did he fucking die??? Are you kidding??? HOW WHY WHO DARED.

He was hands down the best character, I don't want to believe anything bad happened to him. No he's fine. I probably just misunderstood something... Right??? RIGHT????

I need to stop watching like, multiple movies from the same universe or an entire series in one day because like, emotions be emotioning.

Like, other than the fact that I taking down the barrier is literally the stupidest thing ever, because like, fine, you want to give the people who actually didn't do shit to have a chance to be normal.

BUT LIKE, YOU MEAN TO TELL ME, YOU'RE JUST- LIKE- WHAT IN THE EVERLASTING POWER OF FRIENDSHIP IS THIS?

I'm getting so worked up over some teens dancing and singing istg (nah jk, I love them they were great :3).

BUT LIKE BE FR.

Well, Twilight Sparkle would be proud ig.

Also like, so, all the Disney villains and heroes are there right? Something like that?

Also like.

WHY DID THEY MAKE THE DAUGHTER OF MULAN SO FUCKING PLAIN.

Nah like I'm sorry girl, I love you, but that energy in the second movie was not nearly enough screentime for you.

Like, she's the daughter of the most badass woman ever and the most badass man ever, there could literally be a whole movie about her maybe wanting to, unlike her mom, being more feminine and doing girly things because there's no war and so there's no need to train or some bullshit.

They could have gone the opposite way where the daughter is just as skilled as her mother (which has been shown to some degree but come on) and wanted to be just like her, maybe going through an arc where she was afraid of not meeting the expectations (not from her parents they would never) and instead making her own path, oh but we can't do that, why? WHY? IT COULD HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE FIRST MOVIE, INSTEAD OF HER JUST WANTING NEW HAIR??? LIKE SHE COULD HAVE BEEN AN ACTUAL HELPFUL CHARACTER and a good middle ground???? Smh.

Ok, I mayyyyyyyy be looking too much into this my bad guys, I didn't want to turn this into a ramble but I guess here we are.

Also like if the guy with the dog died or went missing... What happened to the dog? His gf???? Was she with him??? Were they both???? Like, istg if they don't delve into this in the next movie imma go YEET something.

But to me it looks like the next movie will probably be about Uma's aunt cuz, time travel, she's angry comes for revenge and yada yada yada.

That whole charade we definitely haven't seen before in like... 4 movies...

But hey, the last movie I can say from a special effect point of view, and overall quality definitely showed a lot of improvements from the other 3.

Also, 3rd movie, girly was so justified in her villain arc, like I'm sorry, but one, Queen of mean slays, second of all, Mal literally ruined everything she had ever worked for, everything she had ever known now didn't matter. All the things she prepared for, all the times she had to be perfect, and she was! Before Mal arrived and by the way, stole the prince by giving him basically a love potion, which was like, "ok it wore off so it didn't matter" because at the end of the day he loved Mal right? WRONG, Mal, I love you, but you should have just gotten with your best friend tbh (even tho I do love the combination of nerd × creative couple, they are actually probably the couple I enjoy the most) like I'm sorry, I'm just saying. So like, I'm not saying I condone her actions, but I do understand why and what led to that whole thing. That could have been avoided if Mal also just simply, I don't know, bothered to say sorry? To check on the person whom she stole the boyfriend from? Again, Mal, love you so much, but this whole thing was just a big no for me.

(I wanna clarify that I don't actually hate anyone..? Like just in case someone thinks I hate the actors...? I don't???)

I'm just vibing here guys, this is just me being silly, you know how I am atp, (especially if you've ever seen my rambles on Steve Stories and stuff).

I have no friends to rant about this with, so the internet shall deal with me (bestie I know you exist, but I don't wanna bother u with Descendants).

Anyway, everyone have a lovely day and remember, it's summer, so hydrate a lot.

#descendants #rambles #disney

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meili-sheep · 2 years ago

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Tower of Fantasy v/ Genshin Impact

So I only did about 2 hours of Tower of Fantasy. But I'm not one of those people who are willing to play something for 10 hours waiting for it to get good.

Haha, that kind of gives my opinion way, doesn't it?

Let me start by saying that Tower of Fantasy and Genshin are different games.

And you might say, "Well, No shit Kai."

But listen, what I mean by that is Genshin Is an RPG with Co-op. Tower of Fantasy (I'm gonna just call it Tower form from now on) Is an MMORPG. And those are different experiences at their core. And to be honest with that, I don't know how the comparison between the two came about.

Because in an MMORPG, you have to play with other people. And story-wise this is a trickier hill to climb. While in an RPG playing with others is optional. And I like that option with Genshin.

And my big issues with most MMORPGs are the issues of immersion and player agency. Both of which Genshin does well, and Tower does not.

Let me start by talking about player agency because this was my biggest issue with Tower.

Because of the gacha nature of both games, it's optional to play the game as your chosen protagonist. But in genshin, the player still has a contention with the Lumine and Aether. The story is ultimately still about the traveler. And the traveler, like the player, is slowly discovering the world. So the player has a deep connection to the traveler while still not needing to play as them. And the ability to play as a character you can connect more with only builds on this, but the traveler is still crucial.

Now little spoilers for Tower.

Tower's PC. From what I played. There was no reason for them to be there. There is no reason for them to care so much about Zeke and Shirli. The story is about Zeke and Shirli, and the player is chasing them. This takes all the agency away from the player.

And really, this is a big pet peeve of mine with media, in particular, games (Because they tend to be the worst offenders of this), try to pull an emotional scene with character but haven't given us a chance to connect to the character. Let me break down my understanding of what happened to show you why this just doesn't fuck work.

So form I got off the game. The world got the Raccoon City treatment. And the air carries this radiation that turns humans into mutants or something.

The players get attacked and separated from our twin(?) and end up injured, and the devices that protect us from the radiation it's battery die. (This was really weird cause who would go on like a mission and not have that bitch at full charge) But as we lose consciousness, someone is talking about wiping our memories.

We wake up saved by this sibling pair that changed the battery. They show us around the safe camp we do some basic help-out shit. The gacha element is introduced. (And actually, I like the idea of why this came was gacha, but the execution was really poor). What ends up happening is the safe haven is attacked by raiders. We help fight them off. This ends with not only a RE-style fight with a boss who thinks it's a good idea to inject himself with some suspicious goo. ut with, the young girl sibling overloading the device that helps protect her in an effort to protect her brother.

Needless to say, she starts to turn into a monster, and they try to pull off this emotional scene where Shirli is telling Zeke to kill her Of course, he can do it, and he eventually runs off to this bad guy group to try and save her And we follow after to bring them both back.

First off. I had no empathy for Zeke of Shirli. Shirli was your dull typical happy-go-lucky girl who really just wanted to see the world and Zeke, her overprotective brother. So both of them were really very boring. And I would have had more empathy for Zeke IF HE DIDN'T MAKE A RULE WHERE THE PERSON CLOSES TO THE SICK PERSON HAD TO KILL THEM. Like He's a bad leader for not being able to follow through, and he's worst for putting that rule in the first place. Because he's essentially forcing people to traumatize themselves by killing their loved ones.

And the worst part. I was just along for this melodramatic ride. Like I was already building my character in my head as this happy (robot) boy who just wants to help and protect people. Also, a little on the dumb side, which would fit into why he wasn't fucking bothered at all waking up and having NO fucking memories. But It was tough to get into it when I had no effect on the story, and while I could see why my character being the dumb baby boy he was, would latch on to Sherli. I just struggled to want to, and I honestly wanted to see him more as stopping Zeke and letting Sherli pass as the person she wanted to be. But Again. I had no choice.

And In genshin thing can be very linear storywise. The Traveler and their journey are still the strong core of the story. We are the focus, and we are affecting the world, even when Paimon volunteers up forever little favor someone asks of us. And heck, even in recent updates, the Traveler has been showing more annoyance at these events. But in Tower, I felt none of that. Instead of me driving the story forward, I felt like I was being pushed along. Nothing I did would matter.

Now let me touch on the Gacha of Tower. Part of what makes Genshin's Gacha interesting and why people pull for characters. IS THE STORY. In the main quest, we connect to characters like Diluc and Jean, Zhongli and childe, Ayaka and Kazuha. We learn about these people, and we just want to see more of them! To play with them and for me make up little stories about my daily adventures with my team!

In Tower, there isn't any of this. The characters are actually weapons. And from what I understand, the character themselves if a simulation of a former great warrior or something. And I like the only weapon banner, and I like this idea. I'm simply not invested in getting the characters because I don't get any connection with them. Like, I managed to get an SSR. I think his name was Crow or something. And I liked seeing my character with this character's weapon. I just didn't care about him. I think it would have been interesting to see interactions between the Simulacra and the PC.

Oh, a more technical side. Genshin's controls are more intuitive. And the graphics are tighter. I had a lot of clipping while playing Tower, and I had to turn the sensitive way down for the controls not to feel like I was on ice everywhere. (Also, nitpick they called the sensitivity they called it camera and not the mouse. And please, please let me bind skills to my other mouse buttons. I bought this expensive gaming mouse for a reason!)

But here is sort of my point in this long ramble.

Games are an art form. An interactive art form. And That makes it a fantastic way to tell a story! To truly connect with people to have them really experience your story! And Despite all its flaws (And it is very flawed). I can tell that Genshin wants to tell me a story. It wants me to engage with its fun characters, it wants to take me on an adventure, and it wants me to shape that adventure. Tower wanted to bather on about this really cool dream it had about Mixing Resident Evil and Kingdom Hearts, and it was all in space.

#hahaahaha #i really hope i made sense here #i'm long winded when i'm passionate about something #and i'm very passionate about storys in games #genshin impact #tower of fantasy #review #just a little ramble

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mysticdragon3md3 · 3 years ago

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I too was excited to see why Ryuji is trending and... ;_;

People are comparing him to a sexual abuser, like Kamoshida? I mean, yeah he shouldn't have looked down Ann's shirt. That wasn't cool. And some of his comments about Ann's Panther costume when she first got it, were not in good taste. But is Twitter seriously saying that puts him on the same level as Kamoshida? KAMOSHIDA???????????? omfg... I just can't anymore, you guys...I just can't anymore... x_x

Just this past week, I watched an Anituber video essayist mention the ubiquitous female objectification in anime as "because you know anime is going to anime", and I felt so validated about sensing that the amount of female objectification in Japanese media has become pretty much expected, normalized, even in the most unnecessary, tiniest ways. I'm so tired of being gaslit about this. Yes, Japanese media in general has a problem with making sure to have close ups of girls' bodies being ogled and women being reduced to (romantic) prizes to be coveted. That beach scene in Persona 5 did panning close-up shots of the girls' swimsuits; not the guys'. All the dating options in Persona 5 are from the pool of female Confidants; not the guys. Because "guys as romantic prizes to be won? Feh, what a *riDIcUlOuS* concept!" I understand that sex sells, that traditionally female sexualization sells to a traditionally cishet male audience which is still presumed to be the largest demographic, and that the anime industry (and presumably other Japanese pop culture creation) is actually financially high risk with low financial rewards for most studios, so they have to desperately scrape for any advantage. (Though recently, the Japanese pop culture industries, like anime and videogames, have begun to realize that there is a cishet female market, large enough to cater to as well, by mainstreaming series like Touken Ranbu. And they've also even recently begun to recognize that catering to fujoshi is worth investing into mainstreaming the BL genre, even a little bit. Thus, we're starting to get more mainstream BL fanservice, through series like Free Iwatobi Swim Club, Yuri on Ice, and Classmates.) So it's kind of our fault, for incentivizing studios to mandate and ensure each thing they make contains female objectification. The audience's spending habits and the industries' presumptions of our wants/demographics, have made cheesecake fanservice and waifu bait the most reliable bet for most studios. We spend the most money on collecting waifu bait merch and gacha cards of waifu. We argue the most about who is the "best waifu" and show our allegiances by buying their merch. We have turned waifu and cheesecake fanservice of such waifu, into the most reliable financial returns on investment for studios. And with studios so constantly, precariously on the precipice of bankruptcy, we the audience, have incentivized the mandate of cheesecake fanservice (of women/girls), even at the cost of cohesive storytelling/characterization. I understand all that. Studios are desperate, and they need to stay afloat. They need to cling and scrape towards any advantage they can get. That's why I'm so tired of people saying we're just imagining things. Anime and videogames are mandating to insert female cheesecake fanservice for cishet males, even at the cost of cohesive characterization, story themes, and good writing.

This includes Persona 5 shoehorning Ryuji into being the horny audience surrogate, no matter how awkward, nonsensible, and misaligned it would skew his characterization and previous writing. This is why fans of Ryuji often say his more "perverted" actions in canon, simply feel like a case of bad writing. Those actions don't feel like him. They feel more like fulfilling the Japanese pop media "obligation" to objectify women, than aligned with his character, as set up so far. Because anime/games just *have* to provide a POV audience surrogate character for everyone to ogle the girls through. Or at least reinforce the types of reactions they want from their audience, after showing us all these T&A shots. It felt more like fulfilling anime tropes than further building upon Ryu's established character of defending people, including women, against perverts like Kamoshida. I mean, this is the guy who was chasing down Kamoshida's car because he knew that pervert might do something. This is the guy who ran straight to the faculty office to punch out Kamoshida for torturing Shiho to her tipping point. The guy who jumped in front of a moving cab to rescue Makoto. The guy who survived watching himself and his mom get abused by his dad. And you want us to believe he wouldn't think twice about looking down Ann's shirt on the way to Futaba's Palace? Or up Ann's skirt, when she laid down from a food coma, after they Yusuke's welcome-to-the-Phantom-Thieves meal? Or so eagerly coerce Ann into posing nude? o_O? Atlus wanted us to believe this was consistent characterization??? To the Atlus writers' credit, they did write Ryuji feeling too guilty about going through Project Maid-Watch and they wrote him ditching it at the last minute. But they also wrote AkiRen to look down Ann's shirt without any hesitations and they wrote morgana to also look up Ann's skirt when she laid down from food coma. The Atlus writers---and most Japanese pop culture---just seem to have an unwavering determination towards these female objectification scenes, and they just saddled Ryuji with it, because he's the "silly, rambunctious, comedy relief" character "that you won't have to feel bad when he inevitably gets hit with *slapstick* retribution". Nevermind, it's counter to the story's theme and his characterization, that they've driven pretty hard as being something to take seriously. So some Ryuji fans will just call-out his inconsistent characterization into being creepy towards girls, as "bad writing".

On the other hand, it's wholly possible and realistic for a guy to exist who is against all the sexual abuse, that scum like Kamoshida do, while still being a dumb horny teenager who will do dumb horny teenage boy stuff. (I'm sorry for all the toxic heteronormative presumptions. But that's kind of the archetype that Atlus has been trying to slot Ryuji into...unfortunately.) They grow out of it. Gradually learning to curb dumb horny inclinations, is _not_ the same level as a sexual abuser! Why are people conflating that today?! o~O????????

And from what I've seen of Ryuji in Persona 5 Scramble/Strikers so far, he has been growing out of it. There's a whole lot less creepy ogling coming from him (AKA the writers), even during scenes which any other anime would have. He didn't get creepy about the girls' yukata, he didn't strain to listen to the girls on the other side of the Sapporo onsen, he didn't make grabby hands at the girls' swimsuits again, etc. Any other anime---hell, even in the previous chronological episode of their story, in the original Persona 5---Ryuji and the camera would have been creepy about the girls' yukata, he would have shut up the other guys so he could listen to the girls compare boobs in the onsen, he would have tried to sneak a peek at the girls' onsen, and there would have been a repeat of that close up scene of the girls swimsuits, with Ryuji providing the expected lecherous audience reaction. But none of that happened in P5S. Heck, even if you choose the option to say onsen are great, as if to imply that overhearing the girls talk about their boobs is great, Ryuji gets embarrassed about the topic and immediately tries to change the subject. Watch any anime from the 2000s or earlier, and the goofy, masculine archetype, like Ryuji, would have not only agreed, but would have suggested sneaking a peek at the girls' onsen. I'm actually really surprised that the Kyoto onsen scene didn't result in fanservice, because that's usually what happens. Even in anime where the boys know to escape fast instead of sneaking a peep, there's usually a screw up where they'll Rube-Goldberg-trip into girls' boobs or trip into full-view of the girls without their towels. Any other anime or Japanese media would have done that. It's typical, expected. "Anime is gonna anime." And yet, none of that normalized perversion happened in that scene. Persona 5 Scramble/Strikers, including Ryuji, did a whole lot less "dumb horny teenage boy stuff", suggesting Ryuji was growing out of that with time. Because even if Ryuji can be a little bit of a "dumb horny teen", he still knows better than that, is curbing such inclinations, and is a much better person than to increasingly act on or nurture such inclinations.

Ryuji is a good boy. Please don't conflate him with Kamoshitty.

9:53 AM 9/17/2021 Ok. I found the original Tweet that started this shitstorm. https://twitter.com/HerielP48/status/1438677678400409607

But this Tweet isn't actually saying that Ryuji is the same as Kamoshida. I thought this Tweet was saying that the overall writing, using Ryuji as a mechanic for "pervert comedy" was a bad decision from Atlus's writers, especially since it contradicted the themes of the Kamoshida Palace story arc. I actually agree with that.

9:56 AM 9/17/2021 Oh, wait. There's a previous Tweet to that one: https://twitter.com/HerielP48/status/1438677262145101824

I see that you tried to save the first sentence, with your second sentence---which I agree with: I agree that the writing made an awful decision in having Ryuji or any character sexualize their female friends, after the sexual abuse they suffered. But your first sentence was still very strongly implying that Ryuji as a character is a problem, more than the writing injecting out-of-characterization into the character that they had already established with Ryuji thus far. That wording was just kindling waiting to start a firestorm. ~_~;

10:29 AM 9/17/2021

Well, the one good thing I'll say about Ryuji trending because of dumb, offensive reasons, is seeing the sheer avalanche of people jump to defend him. This wasn't something Ryuji got, early in the fandom! ;o; Remember when he was the most hated character in the fandom??? And now, everyone is overwhelmingly loving on Ryuji today! ;u;!!! Thank you guys. ;u; He is a good boy. ;U;

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