#but they all have things going on Beyond what byler is getting up to

[campbyler]

wait how could the rest of the party not know about mike and will? they’re so obvious about it. did they not think anything when mike and will were cuddling and sleeping together on one sleeping bag? and what about how they almost kissed in front of everyone at the docks last chapter? will was clinging onto him in the water too! they gotta know a little bit

genuinely i do not think anyone is paying that much attention to them! i think it’s important to note that mike and will have had a very tumultuous relationship for years at this point in acswy canon, and as recently as the start of camp 2023 got into a huge fight — i think that the rest of the party is just grateful to see them get along and isn’t reading too much into it. although this is a mike and will centric story, the rest of the party has their own lives to worry about! what mike and will do beyond being friends and not making it awkward for the rest of them probably isn’t something they’re super concerned about :’)

[chirpsythismorning]

I'm not going to say we should take every single thing official Netflix accounts post as gospel, because obviously they are not run by the Duffer Brothers themselves.

But to be clear, these people are hired by Netflix and there's more to it than just random interns scheduling posts. The people running these accounts are not the same people designing the posts made there, just like the people designing those posts have higher ups telling them what to do/not do in terms of the content they are creating. And there are plenty more levels that go beyond that, which eventually does lead to the Duffers and producers of the show, who do have a stake in how the show is promoted on a basic level to best align with their intentions and all the revelations still to come.

It is common knowledge that the Duffers work with Netflix marketing directly on a consistent basis to get their vision across, and that carries out in promotion with posters, merchandise, social media, etc., because it's really important in ST case (with it being a show made by nerds that love easter eggs), that they foreshadow what is still to come outside of the show itself.

When it comes to social media, the core purpose of those accounts is to encourage engagement for Netflix's user base, ideally ensuring they tune in to whatever is being promoted (and more), but it’s also more than that, in that it’s even more based on data and other factors.

What this leads to is the people in those less major decision-making roles, like graphic designers, simply being advised what to create, based on the information and content they are given to work with.

And so these accounts going from promoting byler subtly for years, to blatantly posting about it post-s5, is actually very, very intentional, going beyond a simple Netflix intern. It’s orchestrated by those in management positions, being advised by those in the ST production to do things a certain way, so that when all is said and done, we are able to look back and find tiny little things that point to it.

Byler can't be something they NEVER talked about even once on social media, only to have them end up being endgame with them posting about it forever afterwards when it's all said and done. It doesn't work like that, at least not in ST case. We're talking about a production that costs hundreds of millions to make, as well as being the most talked about mainstream series of our generation.

They have an obligation to make their story feel not only satisfying on its own, but to also promote the show in a way that makes the viewer feel this whole well-rounded experience, outside of the show itself as well.

And so when ST came out in summer 2022 and Netflix Geeked was making posts about it non-stop, that wasn't a rogue, low-paid Netflix intern doing whatever they wanted. That was multiple people with a job given a task and following through with it at their advisers discretion. Regardless of where it ended up, it started at the top with the Duffers informing higher ups in marketing that Byler is something that will happen, along with other revelations that they want to inform marketing about, so they can take the steps to plan ahead and create content that matches the Duffer's vision, most often to act as a foreshadowing device for the story still unraveling.

Remember when Netflix Geeked made a post acknowledging that Will the Wise drawing in El's room back in s3?? A very well known byler easter egg that only we know about??? That wasn't some ga intern watching the show once and them spontaneously coming up with content to create related to that drawing and posting about it themselves. That was very likely someone associated with the show giving suggestions to marketing, with a few of them being very incriminating in relation to byler, but with most being casual in relation to the show overall.

Just like I said in this post about how Noah didn't tweet about byler or mention it multiple times at cons unprompted bc he was feeling quirky. He was being advised to...

And look what Netflix did to that tweet Noah posted that was clearly a stunt in an of itself.? They broadcasted it and made a cheesy ass edit out of it... And it's bc several people behind the scenes were advised to make content like that specifically.

I mean, if you actually look at how social media promotes byler (if and when it does), it's arguably in the exact way that the Duffers want it to be promoted?. Just enough. Not too little. Not too much. I would argue if the Duffers had no say whatsoever in how the show was promoted, then we'd either be seeing byler constantly or we wouldn't see them at all, instead we see social media sort of dance around it, which tells me they are following the exact approach the Duffers themselves follow... because they were obviously given the instruction to.

And so seeing an account like UK Netflix, an account that as of recent has really went all out with posting Queer content since Heartstopper released, has also notably made really incriminating posts about byler over the years, but especially as of recent. And that's in large part because of what I've stated, but also based on data.

If higher ups in marketing at Netflix know about byler, then they are very likely pushing people lower on the payroll, doing more simple tasks like graphic design and social media management, to make connections to ST with other shows like Heartstopper, Sex Education, Young Royals, etc. And this is because if byler IS going to end up being this huge Queer love story, data is telling them to make these connections sooner than later, so that the eventual revelation will be a smooth transition amongst other content just like it. This works in Netflix's favor at the end of the day, which is the whole point of all of this.

Not saying you should take the most casual of Netflix posts as byler endgame proof if that's what you're asking. But to say that these accounts have NO association with the Duffer's and ST directly, therefore we shouldn’t even appreciate anything they post if it points to byler, is sort of over-simplifying things.

It's not like s5 is gonna drop and all of these interns are going to be like OHHH okay now i'm a byler so i'll post about it... Going into s5 they're going to be making some very side eye posts and it isn't going to have anything to do with them being an intern without any say in things, its gonna be about them getting a task list and following through with it bc it's their job.

[love-byers]

the first time i saw this, when i was NOT a byler shipper, i thought el was running TO mike. i thought we were getting a sweet moment where el runs to mike and he puts an arm around her or hugs her.

then i realized she was running away from him. 

and i was like, why?? they're supposed to be the couple why does she not want his comfort??

and even after will calls her out on doing mike wrong by lying to him, even after she sees that mike is attempting to talk to her and comfort her, that he's not angry at her, she still tells angela to lie to mike. more lies. that's how much she cares about keeping up the persona. had angela lied to mike, el would've continued lying to him the entire week. something she knows in her heart is wrong and not fair to mike.

this is a theme in s4. putting who you want to be seen as before being honest with your bf/gf. going above and beyond to preserve your lie, to be seen as who you want to be.

chrissy does that with jason. who she portrays herself as is completely different than who she really is and what she's really going through. jason has absolutely no idea chrissy is struggling and refused to believe chrissy would buy drugs, because chrissy didn't want to tell him. who knows how jason would've reacted if chrissy was honest, we don't know because chrissy didn't trust him enough to tell him. that's not love at all, that's sad.

this is a point in s2 as well. murray calls nancy out for being afraid to be her true self, and she stays with steve because she doesn't have to be her true self around him. she is her true self when she's with jonathan, and that's why they worked together. that's love.

the exact same thing happens with chrissy. the first time we see her genuinely smile is when she's with eddie. she's sweet and charismatic, and had she lived she totally would've gone to eddie's show, something you never would've expected from her, something her boyfriend, the person she pretends to love, would NEVER do.

robin and steve reinforce this too

you fall in love with the person who makes you feel accepted, the person who makes you feel like you can be who you are. the person you trust with your true self.

mike and el don't trust each other enough, they don't understand each other well enough.

they would have to change their behavior towards each other by leaps and bounds, and we're already at the last season. there is no time for that. stranger things isn't a multi season show about the complexity of romantic relationships and the healthy way to resolve problems. there is no time for that in just about any movie or show, especially a sci-fi show. you know what's way easier and way more likable? pairing your character with someone they naturally click with, who bring out the best in each other and for some reason can't help but be their authentic selves when they're with each other.

did it with jancy, like i said earlier

did it with lumax. when lucas and max talked on the bus max found herself spewing about things she'd never even said out loud before, and she had to stop herself. something about lucas just made her feel comfortable, like she could be herself and tell the truth. she trusted him.

"You're nothing like your brother, okay? You're cool and different, you're super smart, and you're like, totally tubular."

jopper too! joyce constantly had to hide things from bob, she was insecure about their family not being normal.

"This is not a normal family."

"It could be."

though bob had good intentions, the message of the show is not trying to be normal when you aren't. whatever it is about you that makes you weird or different, whatever you've been through that changed you, stay true to it. dont bottle it up and try to be someone else. all of vecnas victims in s4 were doing this, and it didn't end well for them.

they even did it with dustin and suzie. dustin constantly tries to impress max with his teeth, then in season 3 he says suzie thinks kissing is better without teeth. he doesn't have to be insecure about that or try to impress her. she likes him for him.

mike isn't comfortable being his true self around el either. he's insecure about his interests, he feels like he has to act older and cooler to impress her.

you shouldn't be with the person you feel you have to impress. you should be with the person who relieves that pressure, who makes you feel like being the authentic you is enough.

jonathan and nancy, lucas and max, joyce and hopper, dustin and suzie,

cough WILL AND MIKE cough...

[kiirotoao]

HEYYYY HANA! It's me olive/livy/ hey you/ that one person that always joins your lives I had a recent interaction with a more toxic mileven shipper but they said something that really did make me think so I want your thoughts in their words they said "mileven has been cannon for 8 years now why would they end it all at once" they had said this in the middle of a debate and it really got my thinking like would the duffers really end a relationship that has been built on for 8 years for byler? Plz lemme know what you think

OMG HI YOU 🤭 I’d be delighted to give my two cents, thanks for coming to me, Olive!!

Ah, yes. The age old argument of ‘why would the Duffers break up Mleven after building them up all this time?’ To which I say - what build up does one truly speak of? Yes, they’ve been canon romantic from season 1 since that kiss, technically, but their relationship only became truly canon since season 3. And yes, the show has been in production for about 8 years, but the show spans only about 3 years (1983-1986). Even then, to say that Mleven has been canon for that long just isn’t true. In total, they’ve only spent about 6 months together physically in canon (the fall, spring, and, summer of 1985 just before season 3 starts), and 6 months together long-distance (the summer, fall, and spring of 1986).

Point is, they’ve not been together as long as it seems. They’ve expressed interest from the start, but even then, on El’s side, it’s pretty debatable to me.

Take this scene where El literally asks Mike, “will you be like my brother?” I think I can just leave that there as it is.

Now, I do understand the notion that they’ve been in writing for 8 years. But guess who else have been? Mike and Will. Their relationship is just as if not more important to each other’s growths as characters, especially in season 4.

If you’re looking for canon relationships, look no further than Mike and Will’s friendship. If you need to see clear pictures of encouragement, understanding, and amendment, look no further than everything they’ve done for each other over the years.

All in all, I believe that just because you aren’t directly in a relationship with someone doesn’t mean that the current chemistry is void and only counts when you do get together.

Byler have chemistry, that’s why I think that they could easily get together. And by contrast, Mleven don’t. Throughout the seasons that Mike and El have been together, it’s been a struggle for them to connect. Whenever they do, it’s shallow. Take the reunion in season 4 - El is lying to Mike about being friends with Angela, and Mike is lying to El through his split focus on Will (when he complains about Will “rolling [his] eyes,” “moping,” “basically [sabotaging] the whole day”).

Mike is clearly affectionate to El, but he consistently dotes on her looks and never her character beyond her powers. El is clearly affectionate to Mike, too, but it’s clear to me that any time she reaches out to Mike, wrote to him, tried to talk to him in the void, anything, he just couldn’t seem to reach her in return.

Meanwhile, we have Byler promising to go “crazy together.” They sit and listen to each other. Meeting Will is “the best thing that [Mike has] ever done.” Mike thereafter in that scene talks about Will’s persistence. And we know that Will thinks of Mike as a leader, “guiding, inspiring.” Not only are they affectionate to each other, they’re comfortable expressing themselves around each other, highlighting each other’s positive traits, encouraging, supporting, connecting.

Need some people be reminded that filmwork is essential to TV, and so canonically Mike and Will also have many moments together. It’s not like their relationship isn’t known to us in canon (let alone blocked very specifically, too!).

So yeah, to that statement of “Mleven has been canon for 8 years now” so “why would they end it all at once” I say: it’s only been two years maximum in canon, and they’ve been founded on a deteriorating relationship with another much stronger one right in our faces, so no, yeah, Byler is very possible and wouldn’t be sudden in the slightest.

[bylrlve]

Warning! Potential spoilers for Stranger Things 5!

To recap, Alex received this dm on 13/2/23, seemingly confirming mileven breakup

She received this message on that day, which states that mileven are still together and happy. However it’s also instantly debunkable bc they’re absolutely not going to do the Hopper-Mike feud bs again. That is beyond clear.

On this past Tuesday, 20/2/23, she received a second message outright stating Mileven breakup.

Finally, on Wednesday, 21/2/23, she received this message full of pretty plausible statements, with mileven breakup included as fact. Interesting.

This person claims it’s all fake, with no rationale or alt info - what, is Will not important now?

Worth noting: Millie is currently doing promo for Damsels, so she’ll be out of commission re: filming for a few weeks. Early March is probably when she’ll come back, but Finn will be be busy with his Ghosbusters 2 promo.

Two conclusions:

1.) there will be no mileven scenes filmed for a few weeks. Filming schedules are very tightly planned to accommodate other actor commitments, so it doesn’t seem like this posed a massive issue. Hm.

2,) Millie will likely be doing any scenes she has with Sadie and Caleb, aka Max and Lucas, when she gets back. As this message says.

This person is probably just smart and well-informed enough to figure this out, but it’s interesting.

There has been some very intriguing activity on a stranger things set a few days ago - red UD ligthing, castle Byers.., and Will Byers. Will’s plotline for season 5 seriously looks like everything us Will stans have been dreaming of in terms of plot relevance, emotional catharsis, etc. This pic dropped yesterday, and the spoiler acc seems to have confirmed it’s Will:

Lastly,this also dropped today:

(Credit to @1987byler on twt)

Very strange framework, here. If the goal is to set up Will being rejected gently by Mike, but understood and accepted, why not focus on that? Why not have Vecna say ‘you’re afraid he’ll be disgusted by you. You’re afraid he’ll see you as the disgusting, broken boy you are’ or something like that? Elsewhere in the game, it’s being reported by players that Will is being taunted about how his friends are all ignoring him, and how Max fits into the group better than he does. This is canonically a sore spot for him - not so much the Max part, but the general point. So why not emphasise his fear of Mike’s rejection, rather than his hurt at Mike picking El over him?

Maybe because, if this is carried into s5 and we get scenes of Vecna taunting Will about Mike choosing El, it’ll be certain that Mike will indeed pick Will. Maybe this is a means of hinting that?

(Side note: at this point in the time line, El was really just a concept to Will. The one time he met her, it was for barely a minute as a delirious, dying child. By s4, it’s very clear that they’re close and loving. I’ll hear no critique of him for apparently not wanting her to come back - it’s very obviously Vecna twisting things, as he did with Max in s4 to make it seem like she actively wanted to murder Billy.)

Also worth noting: the best Mike can say about the girl he supposedly loved at first sight, after a whole week with her, is that she’s ‘cool’, ‘different’, ‘awesome’. Very lacklustre. Compare to how Lucas would describe the comatose max to a newcomer in s4.

Finally: Will quite literally utilises a never-seen memory of Mike and him in Castle Byers as his happy menory, his safe place. You know,like the Snow Ball and those other memories of good times with Lucas that Max clung to in s4?

Credit to @will80sbyers

This post by @nebulousfishgills reports Vecna saying that Will is ‘the key’, manipulating Will’s memories, and directly saying “You’ll finally matter to someone, Will.” Byler kind of has to be endgame, right? For this to make any sense as a narrative? ‘We can still be friends’ won’t cut it, not if, as the messages Alex is getting make out, Will is still so achingly in love post-time jump that he’s staying by Mike’s hospital bed after everyone else leaves and kissing his forehead (a). Not if they’re still emphasising that Mike is his safe place, his home, his light, in (technically) pre-season five promotional material.

All of this is… interesting, to say the least.

I’ll leave off by sharing the posts made by the wonderful @solgmorell on the set leak (x) and the VR byler stuff (x, y).

(a)

ETA: two of the previous dms Alex has gotten state that Will struggles with his friendships with the other party member this season due to being closeted. This game touches heavily on Will’s feeling disconnected from his friends, at least partly bc of his sexuality…. One is above, the other is here:

[heyitspersephone]

Thinking about stranger things again now that the strikes are over and how, narratively, it would be way, WAY cooler to have Mike get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5

It’s just something about the way Mike’s trauma is never addressed or handled in any way?? Like, he hugs his mom twice and then when he was depressed in season 2 and 4 nobody did anything (his parents scolded him for his behavior in s2 ig but that’s not support). His best friend went missing leaving from his house, he watched his body get pulled from the quarry, watched El (in his eyes) kill herself stopping the demogorgon, watched Will be possessed, saw Bob die, was in Star Court when everything went down, saw Billy die, had his best friend move away, was SHOT AT (and really too few people talk about the shooting in Cali bc omg??), buried a body, and watched the apocalypse start. And that’s just off the top of my head.

(And yes I’m aware that the other characters (especially Will) are traumatized too but I will get to my point in a second just hold on)

The plot is geared towards this idea that Will and Henry have to have some big face off (and they should, in my opinion, but I don’t think it should be in a possession, or at least not the the Vecna kind of possession, yk?) but that makes it all the better, writing wise, to have mike be the one in danger. Will was helpless and hiding in s1, I think Will should get his big strong moments in s5 where he gets to be the hero of the story.

It would just be a lot more fun to work with Mike being Vecna’d than Will, because what are we going to bring up with Will’s visions? His dad? His sexuality? The events of s1 from his perspective? It would be cool to see, for sure, but we already know most of that. Mike, on the other hand, has a number of untapped things, like jumping off the quarry, why he’s so hesitant to tell El he loves her, how someone who was smart and kind enough to take El in in s1 and come up with the spy and sauna plans in s2 and s3 could turn into the oblivious asshole that he was in s3 and s4 (he needs therapy, ik, I still love his character but I want to explore the reasons he went from his s2 characterization to his s3 one)

It would be a very interesting parallel, I think, to explore Mike’s thought processes in this way, especially with all of Mike’s repression business (bc whether you ship byler or milkvan he is repressing his feelings HARD. Like, beyond his inability to say I love you there’s the fact that he doesn’t bring up the apparent many times he called pre-s4 during the Rink O Mania fight?? That literally would’ve absolved him of guilt in that argument since he WAS reaching out to Will the whole time? Hellooooo????).

Anyways, this all brings me to my main point: Vecna targets isolation as much as he targets trauma and guilt. The whole party was traumatized by the events in s1, s2, and s3, but Max was the one targeted. Plus, Henry went for Fred, Chrissy, and Patrick (I think his name was Patrick) instead of going for the perceivably easy targets that the mcs would make (ik narratively that would’ve made it more boring but shhh), so why Max and those three specifically? They were isolated. Lucas and Erica have each other, Dustin goes to Steve and Robin, Will and El have each other and Jonathan and Joyce, Nancy probably goes to Jonathan, and who does Mike go to?

No one. And don’t say Nancy because if those two have heart to hearts then I’m the next coming of Christ. Max separated herself from the Party in the aftermath of her grief and guilt over Billy, and it feels quite obvious that Mike was doing the same (like I said, he has repression issues). So Mike is traumatized, alone, and guilty (be it Will getting taken from Mike’s house, losing El in front of him multiple times, the many deaths he has witnessed, or the internalized homophobia angle), which makes him more of a target than Will, in my opinion (or at least an easier one, especially given his tendency to put himself on the line during fights (quarry, most of s2, s3 mindflayer fight), which would set him up on the suicidal ideation path)

Furthermore, as I’ve seen a few other people point out (and I can’t find the posts but one of them had eight screenshots of the various moments), Mike is always the one getting in the way, so it would be a strategic move for Henry to target him to get him out of the picture. Mike was the one that found El and got her involved in saving Will s1, he was the one who came up with the spy plan and called out the ambush in s2, he was the one to monologue Will out of his possession s2, he was the one with the sauna plan for Billy in s3, he was the one trying to help El get the strength to fight s4 (even if the monologue sucked ass it’s the intention that counts). As much as people like to hate on Mike, he is in the leader position most of the time when the party is grouped up (barring his mental health struggles slowing that down beginning of s3 and throughout s4, but he’s still capable of it). He’s the idea man, and he’s the one whose character’s foundations were built on the desire to keep his friends safe, so it would be a very fun plot line to watch him be the one targeted in s5. Like Will said, as lovestruck and cheesy as he was, Mike is the heart of the party when he’s on his A-game, so Henry should 100% be trying to keep him in the issues he’s been struggling with.

Obviously, Will and El are the Targets with a capital T for Henry since they’re the ones that got away or whatever, but I think Mike is a weakness of Will’s (and El’s tbh but also I think they need to have separate character arcs and I don’t exactly ship milkvan) that should be exploited.

TL;DR: Mike should get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5 because it would make sense in lore and be a very cool way to resolve his character arc

[sugarspiceandnotsonice]

I’m someone who HATES getting my hopes up and always keeps my expectations low but it’s so hard to do that when it comes to Byler. I went into season 4 as a GA member. I always knew Will was gay since season 1 and even felt like he might’ve had a crush on Mike since season 2. I was positive he had feelings for Mike since season 3. Season 4 ended up confirming everything I suspected. As for Mike, I did think he liked El in seasons 1 and 2. I even thought Mileven were cute in those seasons. Then season 3 happened and made me realize I thought Mileven was cute because I hadn’t actually witnessed them in a relationship. Their relationship just annoyed me and confused the hell out of me. It wasn’t a healthy relationship at all. Mike seemed like a completely different person, like he was pretending to be someone else. Their breakup made me so happy and then when they got back together at the end of the season I was confused and annoyed all over again. Then season 4 happened and seeing the way Mike was without El in Hawkins, seeing him go back to being the nerd I knew and loved and playing DnD again, that made me so happy. Then he went to California to visit El and Will. Once again pretending to be something that he wasn’t while around El and acting extremely weird around Will. Will clearly had feelings for Mike but acted totally fine and normal around him. The boy was beaming and so happy to see him and give him a hug. Mike was the one acting weird around Will. Why? Based on the letter El wrote to Mike you’d think Will would be the one to act weird and awkward but it was the other way around. That airport scene made me start thinking that maybe possibly Mike liked Will beyond just platonically. Will and Mike did always seem to have a deeper friendship to me. Mike always acted differently around Will compared to Lucas and Dustin. Plus when Mike was in a romantic relationship with El, he never seemed to be his authentic self to me. I then thought I was probably just reading too much into things but the more scenes I watched of Mike and El along with scenes of Mike and Will, the more I thought that there was no way that the writers of this show actually want me to want Mike and El together. If so, why are they writing them so terribly? They write Jopper, Jancy, and Lumax so well so what the hell are they doing with Mileven? Why’d they make Will have feelings for Mike and are making me want those two to be together instead? Why are the writers having Mike be his most authentic, vulnerable self with Will? What is going on here? If they want me to root for Mileven instead then they’re doing the absolute worst job in making me want them as a couple since season 3. Season 4 made me one hundred percent ship Byler and I found out that I definitely wasn’t the only one who felt that way after watching season 4. By the way, my sister can’t stand Mileven either and would much rather have Byler be a couple as well. So yeah, the writers screwed up big time if they weren’t planning on this reaction. Season 4 and Byler is what really got me into Stranger Things beyond just a casual viewer. Will is my favorite character and all I want is for that boy to finally get happiness and love. He’s just been nonstop suffering the entire time. Why make him in love with Mike if Byler isn’t going to happen? Just so he could suffer more? Wow talk about terrible writing for their only gay character.

[perexcri]

fic recs!!

i woke up to being on a couple of fic rec lists and really appreciated it, so i wanted to capitalize on the nice energy and make a list of some of my own favs that i've read recently that i didn't necessarily see on the other lists :D check these out because they have some of the best prose/plots/characterization that i've read in the fandom :] 💜

one soft infested summer (M, 18k+, 3/7 ongoing) by @wheelersboy - this one is perfect for all the highler fans out there! it's got stoner byler of course, a music festival, lots out camping, and some really amazing writing! i started it just for the fun stoner vibes because Why Not, but i'm staying for the beautiful writing and the really complex and delicate relationship mike and will have in this one

Light Sleepers (T, 15k+, 2/6 ongoing) by @helioleti - WillEl-centric fic set during the time gap between the end of s3 and the beginning of s4 that explores their dynamic and their respective problems with mike, all while trying to cope with moving across the country from everything they know. each chapter is meant to reflect a certain stage of grief, which fits so well with all the complicated emotions everyone is going through!

drank my poison all alone (T, 4k, one-shot) by silverluminoqity - mike gets vecna'd and has to face his past self who's ashamed of who he's grown up to be, and my dudes the writing goes SO HARD. by far one of the best mike gets vecna'd fics i've read with such a good take on his character

star eater (T, >1k, one-shot) by @lowlightt - another fic where the writing does not play. honestly if you have a few minutes, READ THIS FIC. it's mostly just a confrontation between will and vecna, but it's so so powerful and impactful. and again, i cannot state it enough: the writing is AMAZING

tell me again (you said yes) (M, 32k, 3/3 complete) by @willow-lark - hey remember when cleradin was like a Thing for a brief second a few months ago? well if you miss those vibes, or if you just like great writing and some of the best weaving of canon into a fantasy au i've ever read, please look no further than this fic (and it's first part, fireball him! (cast protection)). i love this one dearly and enjoyed the wonderful ways Lark wove canon (specifically s1) into such a different setting, plus it was nice to see many of the other characters play a role in the events. beautiful, astounding, heart-wrenching - and did i mention there's an elopement 👀

In Undertow (M, 17k+, 3/6 on-going) by @souverian-are-we - this and one soft infested summer have become my summer byler reads~ when i say i love this fic, i mean you will have to pry it from my cold, dead hands 🥰 we've got estranged byler, jancy engagement with some stoncy going on in the background, and most of the characters still reeling from the consequences of their final battle with the upside down. it's all set at a lake house, which provides some breathtaking/atmospheric writing that this author uses to their advantage. it has some of my favorite scenes i've ever read in fic too, ones that have literally taken my breath away

california show your teeth (T, 77k+, 10/19 on-going) by @fireflywitch - what if the Byers and Hopper families were from Lenora and moved to Hawkins? this fic takes this one simple premise and turns it into one of my favorite fics i've ever had the pleasure of following along with. it essentially functions as a retelling of s1 and s2, gives almost every main character that's been featured in the show thus far a lot of time and space for their own plots, all while culminating into one larger story underneath. i don't think i've read a fic quite like this one in terms of its scope, plotting, and characterization, because there are a lot of moving parts, but this author goes above and beyond. i cannot recommend it enough

all i know is pouring rain (and everything has changed) (T, 3k, one-shot) by @willelfanpage - i think i read this one at the beginning of my workday while i was running some report on my computer and had to go about the rest of my day as if everything was fine ahah :'D seriously though, it's 3k words that pack an emotional punch all while examining will's relationship to rain. the writing is just gorgeous, and it's a character study that i haven't really seen done before, which was quite enjoyable~

Chasing Heartlines by (T, 7k+, 1/2 on-going) @cherryisgone - if you liked Tip-Toeing on Lilypads then may i direct you to its sequel, which features so much pining mike that he might as well be a tree? again, if you like cleradin/fantasy aus, then Cherry my beloved has you covered 💜 it fits so neatly with Lilypads and provides some fun contrast between will and mike~

Touch Me Like You Know Me (M, 15k, 4/4 complete) by @starsarefire824 - this exists in the rare pantheon of fics that actually made me cry. imagine an estranged byler reunion with all the emotions turned up to an eleven, and lots of lingering on lost time and how life sometimes takes us places we never thought we'd go. it's absolutely beautiful and is a classic to me :]

come back to me and forgive everything (T, 78k, 18/18 complete) by @howtobecomeadragon - i saw a lot about this one when it was on-going but am only just now getting around to reading it, and all i can say is why did it take me so long to get to it :') this author does such a good job of writing will and mike's relationship with a lot of nuance and complexity while still managing to make them feel like the teenagers they are. basically, will has to spend every july at lonnie's house in indianapolis, and for this summer in particular, the event is a lot more emotionally impactful for both mike and will. there's lots of emotional depth, the complexities of coming out and/or realizing you're queer, and, at the heart of it, how two friends try to mend things between each other. it's so soft and sweet

that's all i've got for now!! i'm quickly running out of time on my lunch break :'D also haven't been writing as much, but it's been fun to read more and relax a bit. hope you guys enjoy these because they're genuinely some of the best stuff i've had the pleasure to read in a while 💜💜💜

[castlebyersafterdark]

would byler use condoms

Yall always have such randomly specific thoughts but I always love it! Hmmm.

Alright, I kinda love the idea of a very anxious but somewhat smug Mike going off to the store, maybe down in the little bodega near their dorm room building in the city. The one he frequents all the time. He's shifty, staring at options on the shelf. Blushing furiously as some other guys walks up and bushes forward no hesitation to grab what he needs and goes on his way. So Mike rolls his eyes and just snatches the one he wants and goes up to the register. That first time where literally NO ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION TO YOU, no one cares at all, but his mind is screaming everyone knows, everyone knows I'm going to have sex, they know I'm going to fuck someone, do they know its for a man, do they know, can they tell, do they know??? But it's the anxiety of being watched and judged and also a little heh heh I'm about to get laaaaaid pride when he puts the box on the counter and the indifferent clerk rings it up and hands it over with zero eye contact, barely looks away from his book. Mike's face is so red. Embarrassed. And excited.

I like to think they probably haven't really talked about those particulars at this point, it's not like they have a date scheduled on their calendar saying "LOSE OUR VIRGINITIES" with a big red circle on it. But they both know they're ready, probably soon. Where ever the passion leads when they're fooling around. So, Mike wants to be ready in case they decide to use them. He knows he'll be guiding them, leading them, so it's the responsible thing to buy them.

They do decide to use one that first time, not really knowing entirely what to expect. It feels like the Thing To Do. Even though they've only been with each other and have a base knowledge of what sex between men is like now, they're still hesitant and it's almost grounding to pause a moment, catch their breaths. Will's on his back, relaxed but anticipatory, and so turned on. He's so overly prepared and physically beyond ready, almost wants to tell Mike to just get on with it and fuck him, but Mike's kneeling between his legs and has got that face on that happens when he's encountered a puzzle, a challenge. Brows pinched together, teeth biting his lip as he rips at the foil. But he figures it out, and rolls the condom on with shaky, sticky hands, and finally presses inside.

It only takes a few times after that night to forgo one and try it bareback. Will really, really just wants to feel him, feel everything. Mike, too, of course. Sure, putting one on makes clean-up a lot easier, but that's not always the goal - practicality. It's so different, having your partner like that, bare inside you, coming inside you. But - it's an option. That practicality is needed sometimes. As the years go on and they get more and more adventurous, there are occasions when they need to fuck right now and it's not conducive to then go about the day walking around having to deal with the after effects 🤭 And those two are quite insatiable, after all.

[cloudycleric]

heyy dude i’m watching ur podcast video rn and i saw some of ur posts about it can you please go more into detail about ur thoughts on this charming man and byler cus i feel like i’ve been screaming into the void about the smiths LMAO. i didn’t really get it w this charming man but i wanna see what you think 🙏

okay so im guessing youre asking for an explanation on this charming man & dont worry i have also been screaming the smiths into the void lately. okay so my thing with this charming man is like, it doesnt fit entirely into the perspective of either will or mike but there are certain parts that i think are just so fucking byler. i think mainly the admiration that the speaker has for the charming man is what really sells it for me; it is very very clear in the song that the speaker has a real deep & passionate admiration for him (& maybe even a crush but i dont think morrissey is ready for that talk yet & also, as a jewish person, he can go to hell.)

we got the first verse & ough DOGGIE this one is real byler coded. "puncture bicycle on the hill side desolate" could be a lot of things but the specific bicycle imagery sticks out to me a lot for obvious reasons i'm sure, originally thinking i was going to talk about how the lyric could parallel the swing set meeting since mike too in a way was left stranded looking for help during that moment before he went up to will,

BUT, i think it fits in even better when you consider will's absence from hawkins. "punctured bicycle on the hill side desolate" could also be imagery of will's bike, because god knows where it is now, & mike is seeing it just in complete misery.

the next line "will nature make a man of me yet?" okay when i tell you i have an interpretation for this one i MEAN IT. nature, in this line pretty obviously, refers to forces beyond one's control, & i once again think this is coming from mike's perspective (thought it could be easily applied to will's). okay hold onto your horses because this one is the wildest in the west

"will nature make a man of me yet?" – mike wheeler's internalized homophobia makes him unable to view himself as a real "man." by the forces of nature taking will away from him, perhaps he views this as a way of the universe trying to make him "man up" or whatever. i know that one makes me giggle so much. it hits harder if you think about it in terms of mike's obliviousness because ough thats so good, but it also can apply to will in the same way now that he's been separated from mike. but im sorry from mikes perspective it hits so much harder

OKAY now we're moving to will's territory. the next line i want to talk about is "why pamper life's complexity when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seat?" a big theme in this charming man is how the charming man is of a very higher class than the speaker, which can definitely be said about will & mike. so, this could be explaining will talking about how mike's situation is different than his, i have a deeper better explanation,

i think this line could refer to "why think about all the fucking shitty things ever when mike is so great." it's super implied in the show that mike & will always turn to each other when theyre going through a rough period, or that mike is always protective of will/wants to make sure that he's okay, so i think this may be will talking about why he should deal with the outside world, in terms of trauma or homophobia or whatever, when he can just chill out with mike & not have to worry about all that

okay, so. i don't want to talk about the "i would go out tonight" line because i don't really think it applies here & that's okay. but what i WILL go over next is the "this man said, 'it's gruesome, that someone so handsome should care,' " line because all i can think of when i see this scene is in s4 when mike & will are burying the body in the desert & will cant help himself but stare at mike. it's probably really "gruesome" (fucking AUGHHHH terrible) that someone as handsome as mike should care about him & his problems when he thinks that the probability of them getting together really sucks. even though his personality is great too, mike is a very good looking guy i will say myself & i have also thought this since i was a youngin. so the way that he is just so beautiful to will & also to anyone with eyes makes it even worse to be pining over him because god, he's just so fucking pretty?

"jumped up pantry boy, who never knew his place" once again talking about the difference in class between the speaker & the charming man. though i wouldn't go as far to describe will as a pantry boy. but guess what? will never knew his place until after he found mike.

okay finally the last two lines of the chorus but i analyze them out of order;

the "he knows so much about these things" is like OUGH that is VAN SCENE BEHAVIOR. i could 100000% see mike going "will knows so much about these problems i have & exactly how to fix them" or whatever, & in a metaphorical way you could make the argument that will is trying to communicate something along the lines of "return the ring" but trying to get a 1:1 match for that line is a bit tricky & a lot of a stretch since will is trying to convince mike to go for it, BUT what im trying to get at is that the line could parallel how will is giving love advice to mike in the same way that the charming man does to the speaker, & the speaker is as entranced with the charming man as mike is with will

I HOPE THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION! i should really organize this into a manifesto or something

[lighthouseas]

- brick fireplace // a byler ficlet

Mike thinks he might have a sixth sense, of some kind.

Having not slept very soundly these past few months, Mike has miraculously found that he's actually fallen asleep the night Will has to stay in his room due to the limited space in the Wheeler household.

And those two things are NOT related. Obviously.

It's just coincidence, then, when he jolts awake, utterly disoriented, to the sound of heavy breathing - like someone is having a panic attack. Mike turns to the side, where Will is currently stationed on the floor, sleeping in a sleeping bag that Mike had had to shake the dust out of due to it having been left at the back of a storage closet for...who knows how long.

"Will?" he whispers. He can't really see anything, since his room is pitch black - but he can hear the gasping breaths, which immediately stop once he speaks.

"Sorry," Will murmurs. "I'm sorry. I- I woke you up, didn't I?"

Mike shuffles under his bedcovers, still not really awake but immediately sensing that something is wrong regardless. "Yeah, but -" Will's breathing is still heavy. Mike wonders if he'll take oxygen donations from him. "Are you okay?"

It's a stupid question. No shit, Mike, of course Will isn't okay. He's kind of reliving all of his childhood trauma on full display for all of his family and friends. No, Will is not okay. And as Will's best friend, Mike should know this. He's a little scared, though - a bit hesitant to reach beyond the walls they've built up over the last two years. Scared that if he pokes at one brick - removes a single block, puts one stick out of place - reaches out and says, let me help calm you, holds Will in his arms like he so desperately wants to - the walls will come crashing down, all at once. And that's not what he wants. And probably not what Will wants, either, but really, what does he know?

Beside him, Will is silent for a moment. "Do you want an honest answer?" he murmurs. Mike tenses. He knows what Will is referencing, of course - lying to him about the painting, which had nearly fractured their friendship forever. He's not letting him lie again.

"Well, yeah."

"It was just-" Will sighs. He definitely thinks it isn't a big deal, even though it fucking is, and Mike is overcome with the urge to shake him violently by the shoulders. "A nightmare. They've been getting worse since-"

"...yeah." It doesn't take Mike long to realize what Will is referring to - all he has to do is look through the cracks in his blinds to see the red clouds, probably identical to the ones Will had seen in 1983, coating the Hawkins' skies above.

"Yeah," Will replies softly.

They're silent for another moment. Mike feels like - well, he feels a lot of things, most of which he has a terrible time expressing. But right now, he just feels tired, and he knows Will is, too, if the bags under his eyes Mike's been seeing as of late are anything to go by.

And so he pokes at a loose brick in the wall. It can't hurt. "Why don't you come up here?" Mike pats the empty bedspace beside him, and he swears he hears Will gasp. As if they hadn't done this countless times before as little kids.

It's different now, obviously. The connotation is different, after everything that's gone on. But Mike is delirious from lack of sleep, and the only coherent thoughts his brain is putting together are Will and scared, which he figures amounts to something, especially when his mattress dips as additional weight is added to it and he finds himself naturally giving the bigger part of the blanket to Will, who always shivered if he didn't have at least two blankets, no matter how warm it was outside.

"Mike, you don't have to do this," Will says airily as Mike gently pushes his shoulder to ease him onto the mattress. Mike's eyelids are already droopy. He doesn't fully realize the implications of what he's doing, but Will definitely feels tired, too, and doesn't either. "I'm okay."

"Mm. Then why did you come up here? Could've refused," Mike replies teasingly, but there's no bite behind it.

The brick is coming loose. Wobbling on the other side of the wall, creating a crack in the structure that one can just barely see through to the other side with.

"I-" Despite his previous opposal, Will is now actively snuggling into the blankets. He chuckles. "I dunno. You're like...a human furnace, I guess. And I was cold."

Mike's eyes are closed, now. "I do run hot," he murmurs. "You needed company, too. C'mon, admit it."

"Mike-"

"You love me."

All goes silent for a moment. Mike is beginning to fall asleep. The brick is teetering on the edge of falling out, but not quite removed from the wall yet. Maybe that can wait until tomorrow.

"I'm cold. You're hogging the blankets," Will whispers, though Mike can tell he wants to say something else.

Without opening his eyes, Mike shifts forward, hoisting himself farther up onto the pillows so his head rests atop Will's and his long arms can wrap protectively around his torso. It's nice, and ridiculously cozy. Will breathes fast against his neck, and for a moment, Mike thinks he may be having a nightmare again.

"What are you doing?"

And - okay. Mike doesn't really know what he's doing, at the moment. He's sort of already half asleep, and Will says he's cold, and Mike runs hot, so he's come to the only logical solution: be Will's human furnace (and protector against nightmares, but that's a silly title, and Mike knows Will hates talking like that. Maybe it can just be implied.)

"I'm keeping you warm," Mike answers simply.

Silence. He fidgets, though it's more like a fish flop since his muscles have turned to jelly with sleep. In doing so, he accidentally nuzzles his face into Will's hair, and catches a brief scent of vanilla shampoo.

"Is this...okay?" Mike asks, just to make sure.

Will is silent for a moment, and then Mike feels him nod against his sternum. It sends shivers up his spine, but they're the good kind - the kind that ease Mike into slumber almost immediately.

He's asleep, now, all noises from the outside muffled. Something whispers into his sternum - it feels like lips, tracing quiet words into his skin, begging him to understand. Begging him to just feel.

"I love you."

The brick falls out of the wall, and Mike pulls Will just a little bit closer.

[spicybylerpolls]

It's interesting how many people are bothered by the banner on this blog. It's pretty tame. This idea that Mike and Will aren't even allowed to kiss when they were younger because it's inappropriate is crazy to me when we saw Mike and El making out at that same age and people weren't scandalized by watching that. So clearly their issue is that it's 2 boys and they are uncomfortable with adults knowing they want to kiss. I saw someone claim that it wasn't homophobia but they were bothered by the fact that the disclaimer says they will be aged up in polls but then used something from S3 in the banner. But that's because on the show they have mostly been young kids so if you're making a banner there aren't pictures of them randomly as adults lol. It's not a big deal at all. People don't even think through why they are mad. They just have a trigger response to things they don't like and go off about it. It's like they are throwing darts and hoping one of the reasons they've come up with will stick and actually be a legit issue. But I have yet to see an actually criticism of this blog that was fair. All of it is coming from young people scandalized by sex and freaking out over the details and kinks people came up with. They equate "kink" with something sinister and predatory. I sincerely hope that they get educated better at some point because their attitude is a big problem. When the fandom is more active there is going to be a lot more people talking like this. And if there is a sex scene that is all anyone is going to be discussing. If it's bothering them now, they won't be able to deal with it later.

Yeah I was genuinely surprised people were/are upset about that too! I understand not liking the blog as a whole, but to single out the banner as some kind of gotcha is def strange to me. Even some people who like this blog are bothered by it. But it didn't even cross my mind once that the banner would potentially be something folks would have any opinions about at all, negative or positive lol.

Having a S3 banner isn't saying, "Go think of them as their S3 selves!" (And it isn't saying the opposite either- no one can control what others think about). The banner isn't saying anything at all. It's just a banner. Like, there's no sinister or ulterior motive behind it. It was just chosen because it looks cool and because, like you said, we don't have any pictures of them randomly as adults. It's strange to me that people think the banner is "attaching a specific image" to Byler.

But they don't think that about anyone else's profiles. Are people with S1 Byler profile pictures only talking about S1 Byler on their accounts, even when they analyze darker themes? Of course not. So I do think people are grasping at straws and partially motivated by purity culture and homophobia, even if it's internalized homophobia.

And the disclaimer says Byler is aged-up in all the sex-related polls not just to clarify the purpose of the blog as a whole and so people don't have to keep adding "for aged-up Byler" to their submissions, but also for literal reasons. Unless you believe Byler secretly boned off screen already or something, when Byler has sex, whether in the show or post-canon, they will be aged up to at least Stancy's age.

(Some of the anons haven't been specifically related to having sex but to sexuality in general, and people are usually discussing things like hosegate where obviously they aren't aged up. But the actual sex specific questions are clearly talking about Byler in S5 and beyond).

Since the show is going in a more mature direction, it makes sense to talk about sex and sexuality as it relates to Byler. As you put it, "I sincerely hope that they get educated better at some point because their attitude is a big problem. When the fandom is more active there is going to be a lot more people talking like this. And if there is a sex scene that is all anyone is going to be discussing. If it's bothering them now, they won't be able to deal with it later." Very true.

[bylertruther]

That comment was so true, I was just thinking the same way. Old bylers were more open to criticizing the show's bad aspects and writing choices instead od trying to bend the whole thing to come up with excuses and explanations. Nowadays when you criticize a writing choice or something done by the Duffers you automatically get accused as if you've just committed a crime because how dare you think the Duffers aren't perfect genius writers that put everything intentionally without any mistake.

yeah! nowadays, in this corner, criticism is seen as a bad thing that you would never do to something you enjoy, and it's like... huh? it's okay to not enjoy something 100%. the duffers and co are not infallible and people don't have to like every decision they've ever made. that shouldn't even be something that someone on the internet has to say—existing as a human being in the world should've taught everyone that back when they were a baby.

even beyond that, as others have mentioned in other conversations, you can understand someone else's viewpoint just fine and still not feel as though there's enough relevant evidence to back it up, and feel hesitant because of how the duffers have consistently handled other plots.

like, personally... i struggle to be one of those #believers, because of how present the show's racism is in my mind. also, season three and season four are right there, alongside the show's misogyny and classism, too. and don't forget the little inconsistencies and anachronisms either! there's A Lot that i don't like and that i feel could've been corrected or reworked more effectively had they had a more diverse writing room or consulted others during the writing process. i like the general direction of the show, but there are a lot of details or ways they went about it where i'm like ://// man..

and.... controversial perhaps... but i feel that behavior is especially rampant in the byIer fandom and it manifests as the fanon that we can't seem to shake off.

mike does pay acute attention to will in some ways, but he's not the obvious lovesick, clingy, forever doting, golden retriever bf that people make him out to be [shout out to s2 mike tho he was built different 💔]. that fanon!mike is fans overcompensating for canon mike's behavior and presentation, which honestly has not been that fucking great as of late, purposely because he can't balance having both will and el in his life, among other mike-specific reasons, and because the duffers changed the way they wrote him post-s2. he does care about and love will, but not like many fans suggest, at least not yet.

but if you say that around here, you're seen as a freak weirdo mike hater talking about some ooc mike even though the show is right there and i could point to the 9384038049 times that mike forgot about will, brushed him off, was mean to him, or explicitly chose someone else over him. purposely! of his own volition!

and it also shows in how they babygirlified him, even though mike doesn't act like or look like that at all in the show, nor has he ever been described that way by anyone, whether in-universe or by the people that bring him to life.

And Don't Even Get Me Started On Will. Zon't.........

they had to recreate these new characters with mike and will's names and faces, because they didn't like what was on the screen. simple as that. but will they ever admit it? lmao.

as a fan of the show, and a fan of these characters and the stories they're representing, it's really weird to witness. there has been a distinct shift in the way in-fandom bylers talk about byler and the show and it started post-s2 when things started happening that they felt they had to correct. if they want to engage with the material in a way that best suits their tastes, fine. whatever. literally everyone does that. but to insist that the things that they say that go directly against canon or don't even exist within it .... are canon? and that everyone else using direct lines from the text are the ones projecting or twisting it or otherwise not appreciating the material? i have to laugh.

it's the same with other serious criticisms. if they can't create something to justify it, then they just brush you off as a hater because that's easier than acknowledging that maybe their precious bloated ensemble show isn't entirely perfect.

[kiirotoao]

Re: Byler and being best friends

Alright, look, I understand that in real life, best friends can appreciate each other’s art. Best friends look for each other when they’re lost. Best friends stick together in rough patches. Best friends fight and disagree. Best friends apologize when they’ve messed up. Best friends give each other gifts. Best friends confide in each other with almost everything. Best friends can do romantic things and be completely and utterly platonic in real life.

But guess what Stranger Things is not? Real life!!

If any story in media is well-captured and well-written, if the camera sees it, if we see it, then it’s supposed to be important. While friends in real life can do the most questionably romantic things and still claim to be just friends or even just best friends, there’s far more nuance to real people to explore if it’s truly romantic or not, and that’s not for others to openly discern. But we who analyze Byler are not doing this because Mike and Will are real people. They’re characters, crafted into this audio-visual story with pre-written and exclusive history and dreams.

While I know that they say they’re just best friends, I speculate on them potentially being more. Why? Because their stories are interwoven and I see chemistry within the threads. It’s as simple as that.

I preach at the end of almost every video I make, “Byler’s endgame,” and really, that’s a sendoff of encouragement more than anything else. Because I hope and believe that Byler can happen at the end of this season and this overarching story. I’m not pushing two people together. I’m hopeful to see two characters come together and realize that their relationship and feelings can blend into a wonderfully written romance amidst this dangerous and unpredictable world that they’ve been put in.

So please stop comparing Mike and Will to real relationships and saying, can’t best friends just be best friends? Look, yes! You’re right! In real life, best friends can be nothing more and choose to stay that way. But on the other hand, hey, best friends in real life can also become more! No one can deny that! But whatever the weather, whatever can be real isn’t relevant. Real lives are not a TV show. Real lives are not being created and publicized (besides some people in reality TV, which is another unrelated issue). By contrast, as characters, Mike and Will’s lives are. And I love the thought of them finding love in each other at the end of the pages. It gets no finer than that.

And so when I look back at their narratives and see the way they treat each other, interact on screen and see how they think, tell me, am I wrong for shipping them? I’m taking the details and looking beyond explicit labels. And I don’t just go around doing this to all people I see in my life who have chemistry. This is specific, this is the love I witness in this thriller-drama-romance. I’m sorry if I end up fighting against you, but I’m not here to crowd you out. Ship what you want. If you love certain characters together, talk about them! There’s a plethora to talk about for Byler! So honestly, I’m curious, why are you compelled to come to me and try to convert me away from what I love when I often don’t even mention your name? Is there not enough for you to obsess over and love? Is there perhaps not enough textual evidence or good moments to enjoy for your ship? I’m just saying.

At the end of the day, real life experiences and examples are practically void when we’re talking about art, and please, please let me have fun with my ships. This is the internet. If you don’t like it, use your capabilities and settings and scroll or block what you don’t like, and pursue what you do. Unless you want to join a forum to discuss the arguments, I think that it’s unfair to think that those who don’t ship your ship are going to talk about your ship. I’m not responsible for what you consume and see. Really, no one is but yourself.

I like to think that I’m rather patient, but I don’t know, I think I’m tearing at the seams a little after a few years in this fandom. This is directed to no one in particular, though, so please don’t take this as a direct callout. I just wanted to get this off my chest. Sorry if I got a little harsh in the end, there, too.

Thank you to those who’ve engaged very respectfully with me even if you disagree with my opinions. I hope that I’m respectful, in turn. I love lighthearted debates, but I don’t love repeating myself to some who don’t want to listen. And of course, thank you Bylers. I’ve met so many wonderful people through our silly journeys going crazy together. That’s all. 💙💛

[hoteadepresso]

okay so hear me out

back when I was 14 I was going through my Percy Jackson obsession (how did I think I was straight is beyond me lmao) 

but anyways, if you know the series you probably remember the Cupid scene in House of Hades 

And tonight I had a sudden flashback of that scene and it occured to me how many Byler parallels there are, and the whole scene feels like something that could potentially happen in season 5, and some of the tropes are eerily similar

some things parallel Byler scenes that have already happened in season 4, so I will try to point them all out  

(spoilers for House of Hades by Rick Riordan below!) 

okay, to summarize, in House of Hades Nico and Jason end up on a mission together, and to complete it they must get an artefact they need to defeat Gaea. In the process they must defeat Cupid (more like get him to surrender actually), and Cupid forces Nico to share his deepest secret, and Jason witnesses it all. So before I start, I would like you to keep in mind that this is just a loose interpretation of my Byler infested brain, because I love finding similar motifs in pieces of media and Nico di Angelo was at one point almost as dear to me as Mike Wheeler is now (though in this particular piece the similarities are more so between Nico and Will, but I could definitely pin some parts to Mike as well) 

here goes: 

[“Cupid,” Jason called, “where are you?”

The voice laughed. It definitely didn’t sound like a cute baby angel’s. It sounded deep and rich, but also threatening—like a tremor before a major earthquake.

Where you least expect me, Cupid answered. As Love always is.

Something slammed into Jason and hurled him across the street. He toppled down a set of steps and sprawled on the floor of an excavated Roman basement.]

So this is just an intro, but we already have a sentence thay corresponds with Byler. Maybe it’s a bit cheesy, but still true. 

[I would think you’d know better, Jason Grace. Cupid’s voice whirled around him. You’ve found true love, after all. Or do you still doubt yourself?]

Now while for the most part here Jason parallels Jonathan, this particular line makes me think of Vecna possibly using Mike’s conflicting feelings and guilt about El to torment him. That would work in a scenario where they do not break up at the beginning of season 5 immediately, and prolonging the situation Mike is in at the end of s4 could make an opportunity for Vecna to use it against him like this. 

But that’s only a side comment, I still think it fits Jonathan better, considering the situation with Nancy, and Jonthan’s struggles when it comes to what the future has in store for the two of them.

[Nico scrambled down the steps. “You okay?” Jason accepted his hand and got to his feet. “Yeah. Just sucker punched.”

Oh, did you expect me to play fair? Cupid laughed. I am the god of love. I am never fair.]

again, a bit on the nose, but here I would like to refer to the breakfast scene in season 3, the “I’m not gonna fall in love”, scene. 

To me it’s not even what Will says, because we know he was most likely already in love with Mike at that point, so he probably doesn’t mean it literally. 

The way he says it, however, is what makes me put this reference here. His voice is dejected, like he has given up hope on ever being happy and having someone whom he is in love with, because he thinks he is not allowed to be in love, that there is no happy ending for someone like him (and here, a honorary FUCK LONNIE BYERS is in order I believe). 

So yeah, love isn’t fair, especially to a gay boy in the 80s, in Indiana.

[This time, Jason’s senses were on high alert. He felt the air ripple just as an arrow materialized, racing toward Nico’s chest. Jason intercepted it with his sword and deflected it sideways. The arrow exploded against the nearest wall, peppering them with limestone shrapnel. They ran up the steps. Jason pulled Nico to one side as another gust of wind toppled a column that would have crushed him flat.

“Is this guy Love or Death?” Jason growled.

Ask your friends, Cupid said. Frank, Hazel, and Percy met my counterpart, Thanatos. We are not so different. Except Death is sometimes kinder.]

so, this part here. Now I do not think Will is suicidal or something like that. However, I do believe Vecna might use the “putting you out of your misery” manipulation tactic if he curses/posesess Will. You know, good old tormenting with visions of Mike hating him, being disgusted with him, never reciprocating his feelings etc., and then when he’s broken, this tactic. Idk, maybe I’m reaching, but it’s still a valid line when it comes to their storyline.

[“We just want the scepter!” Nico shouted. “We’re trying to stop Gaea. Are you on the gods’ side or not?” A second arrow hit the ground between Nico’s feet and glowed white-hot. Nico stumbled back as the arrow burst into a geyser of flame. Love is on every side, Cupid said. And no one’s side. Don’t ask what Love can do for you. “Great,” Jason said. “Now he’s spouting greeting card messages.” Movement behind him: Jason spun, slicing his sword through the air. His blade bit into something solid. He heard a grunt and he swung again, but the invisible god was gone. On the paving stones, a trail of golden ichor shimmered—the blood of the gods. Very good, Jason, Cupid said. At least you can sense my presence. Even a glancing hit at true love is more than most heroes manage. “So now I get the scepter?” Jason asked. Cupid laughed. Unfortunately, you could not wield it. Only a child of the Underworld can summon the dead legions. And only an officer of Rome can lead them. “But…” Jason wavered. He was an officer. He was praetor. Then he remembered all his second thoughts about where he belonged. In New Rome, he’d offered to give up his position to Percy Jackson. Did that make him unworthy to lead a legion of Roman ghosts? He decided to face that problem when the time came. “Just leave that to us,” he said. “Nico can summon—” The third arrow zipped by Jason’s shoulder. He couldn’t stop it in time. Nico gasped as it sunk into his sword arm. “Nico!” The son of Hades stumbled. The arrow dissolved, leaving no blood and no visible wound, but Nico’s face was tight with rage and pain. “Enough games!” Nico shouted. “Show yourself!”

It is a costly thing, Cupid said, looking on the true face of Love.]

okay, for this one, I want you to think about the van scene, car talk scene, but also Will’s POV in season 4 in general, but not only Will’s, it applies heavily to Mike as well. 

“Sometimes I thing it’s just scary to open up like that. To say how you really feel. Especially to people you care about the most. Because what if... what if they don’t like the truth?”

To be vulnerable, to face your true feelings, you have to be prepared to pay the price, because you have no guarantee your feelings will be returned, or even accepted. Will is afraid of opening up about his real feelings to Mike, and Mike is not only afraid of his feelings for Will, he is also afraid of facing El and telling her the truth about his feelings, and it reflects both in the scene in the junkyard but also in the scene in the desert, when Mike looks between Will and El and you can clearly see the “how am I going to tell her?” expression on his face. Because I believe at that point he has accepted it, but it didn’t solve anything. 

Also, I strongly believe that Mike is terrified of losing El as a friend. I think he is convinced that if he isn’t “useful” to her as a boyfriend, he has no “use” to her at all, and that he will lose her completely, and that is probably even though he is aware of his real feelings, he is holding on to trying to fix things between them, because he is not fighting for a girlfriend anymore, he is fighting for one of his platonic soulmates, someone with whom he has a profound bond. 

Will pays his price too, lying about the painting. He pays the price of love for Mike, who needs to understand how important he is to people who love him, and he pays the price of the love for his sister. He has their best interests at heart, even if it means his heart will bleed out. 

[Another column toppled. Jason scrambled out of its way. My wife Psyche learned that lesson, Cupid said. She was brought here eons ago, when this was the site of my palace. We met only in the dark. She was warned never to look upon me, and yet she could not stand the mystery. She feared I was a monster. One night, she lit a candle, and beheld my face as I slept. “Were you that ugly?” Jason thought he had zeroed in on Cupid’s voice—at the edge of the amphitheater about twenty yards away—but he wanted to make sure. The god laughed. I was too handsome, I’m afraid. A mortal cannot gaze upon the true appearance of a god without suffering consequences. My mother, Aphrodite, cursed Psyche for her distrust. My poor lover was tormented, forced into exile, given horrible tasks to prove her worth. She was even sent to the Underworld on a quest to show her dedication. She earned her way back to my side, but she suffered greatly. Now I’ve got you, Jason thought. He thrust his sword in the sky and thunder shook the valley. Lightning blasted a crater where the voice had been speaking. Silence. Jason was just thinking, Dang, it actually worked, when an invisible force knocked him to the ground. His sword skittered across the road. A good try, Cupid said, his voice already distant. But Love cannot be pinned down so easily. Next to him, a wall collapsed. Jason barely managed to roll aside.

“Stop it!” Nico yelled. “It’s me you want. Leave him alone!” 

Jason’s ears rang. He was dizzy from getting smacked around. His mouth tasted like limestone dust. He didn’t understand why Nico would think of himself as the main target, but Cupid seemed to agree. ]

Only a small remark here, but I can definitely see Will puting himself between Vecna and the others in season 5, especially since I believe Will in fact, is Vecna’s main focus at the moment. (im a Will has powers truther)

[Poor Nico di Angelo. The god’s voice was tinged with disappointment. Do you know what you want, much less what I want? My beloved Psyche risked everything in the name of Love. It was the only way to atone for her lack of faith. And you—what have you risked in my name?

“I’ve been to Tartarus and back,” Nico snarled. “You don’t scare me.” I scare you very, very much. Face me. Be honest.]

Tartarus = Upside Down, Mind Flayer, etc.

And yet there are other demons Will must face, not only the interdimensional evil. And those demons might prove more difficult to deal with, especially if he’s alone with it.

[Jason pulled himself up. All around Nico, the ground shifted. The grass withered, and the stones cracked as if something was moving in the earth beneath, trying to push its way through. “Give us Diocletian’s scepter,” Nico said. “We don’t have time for games.”

Games? Cupid struck, slapping Nico sideways into a granite pedestal. Love is no game! It is no flowery softness! It is hard work—a quest that never ends. It demands everything from you—especially the truth. Only then does it yield rewards.]

Here let’s think back to the van scene. Will confesses his feelings in a veiled way, lying about the painting and projecting his own thoughts and feelings onto El. 

We can safely assume that resolving this and Will confessing the truth about the painting will be a big part of the Byler arc in season 5. Only after they both know the truth they will have a chance at moving forward and building a relationship.

[Jason retrieved his sword. If this invisible guy was Love, Jason was beginning to think Love was overrated. He liked Piper’s version better—considerate, kind, and beautiful. Aphrodite he could understand. Cupid seemed more like a thug, an enforcer. “Nico,” he called, “what does this guy want from you?”

Tell him, Nico di Angelo, Cupid said. Tell him you are a coward, afraid of yourself and your feelings. Tell him the real reason you ran from Camp Half-Blood, and why you are always alone.

Nico let loose a guttural scream. The ground at his feet split open and skeletons crawled forth—dead Romans with missing hands and caved-in skulls, cracked ribs, and jaws unhinged. Some were dressed in the remnants of togas. Others had glinting pieces of armor hanging off their chests. Will you hide among the dead, as you always do? Cupid taunted.]

 I don’t think this needs any particular analysis from me. This could be many things, but in general, another way for Vecna to torment Will. Maybe he will use that when faced with both Mike and Will, forcing Will to confess and then we see some sort of horrible, heart-wrenching reaction from Mike and we find out it was a vision all along, making Will believe that this is really how Mike reacted, etc.

[Waves of darkness rolled off the son of Hades. When they hit Jason, he almost lost consciousness—overwhelmed by hatred and fear and shame…

Images flashed through his mind. He saw Nico and his sister on a snowy cliff in Maine, Percy Jackson protecting them from a manticore. Percy’s sword gleamed in the dark. He’d been the first demigod Nico had ever seen in action.

Later, at Camp Half-Blood, Percy took Nico by the arm, promising to keep his sister Bianca safe. Nico believed him. Nico looked into his sea-green eyes and thought, How can he possibly fail? This is a real hero. He was Nico’s favorite game, Mythomagic, brought to life.

Jason saw the moment when Percy returned and told Nico that Bianca was dead. Nico had screamed and called him a liar. He’d felt betrayed, but still…when the skeleton warriors attacked, he couldn’t let them harm Percy. Nico had called on the earth to swallow them up, and then he’d run away—terrified of his own powers, and his own emotions.

Jason saw a dozen more scenes like this from Nico’s point of view.… And they left him stunned, unable to move or speak.

Meanwhile, Nico’s Roman skeletons surged forward and grappled with something invisible. The god struggled, flinging the dead aside, breaking off ribs and skulls, but the skeletons kept coming, pinning the god’s arms. Interesting! Cupid said. Do you have the strength, after all?]

Okay, a lot to unpack here, but first let’s notice the way we see this through Jason’s POV, and I think it’s a very direct parallel to Jonathan hearing the van conversation and seeing Will crying, then noticing Will looking at Mike and El flirting, not to mention simply knowing Will all his life and having noticed how Will was around Mike through the years. 

Then we have those particular scenes where we see Percy through Nico’s lens. He is his hero his heart, someone who protected him from harm, someone who made Nico feel safe, someone he trusted completely. 

Then we see that even when Percy hurt him, betrayed his trust in a way, Nico still can’t bring himself to hurt him back, he protects him even then.

Those are all very direct parallels to how Will perceives Mike. 

And while admittedly, Percy is a more “obvious” and “literal” hero than Mike, it doesn’t change anything. 

To Will, Mike is a real hero. He was the one who stood between him and bullies, who offered warmth and shelter when Lonnie still lived with them, who made Will feel good for being different. Mike doesn’t need to yield a literal sword to be Will’s Paladin. His heart and his love are his greatest weapons.

He was Nico’s favorite game, Mythomagic, brought to life.

Ring any bells? 

[“I left Camp Half-Blood because of love,” Nico said. “Annabeth…she—”

Still hiding, Cupid said, smashing another skeleton to pieces. You do not have the strength.]

Here we have the painting, again.

Annabeth is Percy’s girlfriend and love interest all through the series. 

Here we see Nico trying to evade the full truth, trying to make it seem as if it was Annabeth that he had feelings for. 

And we can interpret it in two ways, depending whether we apply this to Will or to Mike. 

This part makes me think of Mike more, of the way that he tries to hold onto El, not ready/too afraid to admit who it is that he truly loves. 

If we look at it considering Will, obviously he doesn’t use El to imply it was her he has feelings for, he does use her however to tell a half-truth to Mike in the van. 

They both seem to be talking in code, seemingly refering to El while actually thinking about each other. 

[“Nico,” Jason managed to say, “it’s okay. I get it.”

Nico glanced over, pain and misery washing across his face. “No, you don’t,” he said. “There’s no way you can understand.” And so you run away again, Cupid chided. From your friends, from yourself.

“I don’t have friends!” Nico yelled. “I left Camp Half-Blood because I don’t belong! I’ll never belong!”

The skeletons had Cupid pinned now, but the invisible god laughed so cruelly that Jason wanted to summon another bolt of lightning. Unfortunately, he doubted he had the strength. “Leave him alone, Cupid,” Jason croaked. “This isn’t…” His voice failed. He wanted to say it wasn’t Cupid’s business, but he realized this was exactly Cupid’s business. Something Favonius said kept buzzing in his ears: Are you shocked? The story of Psyche finally made sense to him—why a mortal girl would be so afraid. Why she would risk breaking the rules to look the god of love in the face, because she feared he might be a monster.

Psyche had been right. Cupid was a monster. Love was the most savage monster of all.

Nico’s voice was like broken glass. “I—I wasn’t in love with Annabeth.”

“You were jealous of her,” Jason said. “That’s why you didn’t want to be around her. Especially why you didn’t want to be around…him. It makes total sense.”

All the fight and denial seemed to go out of Nico at once. The darkness subsided. The Roman dead collapsed into bones and crumbled to dust.

“I hated myself,” Nico said. “I hated Percy Jackson.”]

So here we have the pizza place talk between Jon and Will. While not as explicit and upfront as the one between Jason and Nico, it still holds similar weight of understanding, reassurance and support.

And the “not wanting to be around them” part? Will sat in the front as they were driving to Indiana, because he couldn’t handle sitting in the back next to Mike and El, not after Mike’s monologue.

[Cupid became visible—a lean, muscular young man with snowy white wings, straight black hair, a simple white frock and jeans. The bow and quiver slung over his shoulder were no toys—they were weapons of war. His eyes were as red as blood, as if every Valentine in the world had been squeezed dry, distilled into one poisonous mixture. His face was handsome, but also harsh—as difficult to look at as a spotlight. He watched Nico with satisfaction, as if he’d identified the exact spot for his next arrow to make a clean kill.

“I had a crush on Percy,” Nico spat. “That’s the truth. That’s the big secret.”

He glared at Cupid. “Happy now?”

For the first time, Cupid’s gaze seemed sympathetic. “Oh, I wouldn’t say Love always makes you happy.” His voice sounded smaller, much more human. “Sometimes it makes you incredibly sad. But at least you’ve faced it now. That’s the only way to conquer me.”

Cupid dissolved into the wind.]

While obviously Vecna doesn’t want Will or anyone else to conquer him, he does feed on secrets, lonliness, shame and guilt. So of course he is most likely to target people suffering from those things, such as Will naturally but I strongly believe he might target Mike specifically, because he will know it’s the best way to hurt and manipulate Will and El. 

I rest my case. I hope it’s at least somewhat coherent, I’m insane for Byler and sleep deprived. 

Lemme know what you think! 

[despapillon]

stupid how you managed to make a dick joke out of innocent shot. and hosegate oh no that is awful. Byler is not going to be in relationship. what show have you been watching certainly not Stranger Things more like Gayer Things. Duffer have had an emotional love declaration by Mike and you believe Byler? that is sad. it may not be romantic but to Duffers it is. same men that wrote in Steve talking about his breeding kink to Nancy and framed it as romantic. just because something is the better choice in your eyes does not mean that will happen. after events of show i can only see Mike and El get married. Duffers try to convince he is straight and they intend him to be but Mike reads as deep in closet. fans dw Will is going to get over Mike and find a bf that is give him happiness he deserves. but Mike? Mike will forever be in loveless marriage and he is never ever going to get over Will. in his thirties and beyond that he is going to suffer and not stop thinking about how everything would be different if he accepted his sexuality and chose Will not El. he is going to hate himself for making such a mistake

listennnnnnnnnn. ppl were talking about hosegate so i just made a reference to the rolled up painting shot. i wasnt the one that noticed it first. i only knew it was a thing because of Bylers discussing it. i had the pic saved, as i was preparing a post that i scrapped that was about Will and the allegations he had, including fake stuff spread around that S3 Will would have a p*rn magazine and the speculations that Will is going to sleep around with random men in S4 and my thoughts on this plus the sexualization dramas like Byler sex in the show, Byler kiss not being chaste, writing Byler smut, Mike supposedly checking Will out, hosegate and other phallic imagery. i decided against that and now i think that was a good choice because it would drive some wild.

i never truly meant the rolled up painting thing was intentional i was simply saying what was a regular shot became dirty to me thanks to Bylers influence. i’m sorry i didn’t mean to offend anyone. i still find it funny but i feel bad for making that post. i guess i should have kept it to myself. i had no idea it would come off this inappropiate. though the characters are only 15 (i think) so that is on me for not caring how uncomfortable it could make others.

now onto the rest of your ask. i don’t know if Byler is going to be together. i don’t. i ship it because i like it. when we get the next season we will see. i willingly choose to spend my time on discussing Byler knowing i’m not really that confident in it. nobody is forcing me to do this. i know we may get queerbaited. but i don’t care.

there is that section of Bylers that got utterly destroyed by vol 2 and either converted to M!leven and now mock us for still shipping Byler (there must be a name for that phenomenon because how) or are bitter and lashing out at Duffers because they lost their faith and now Byler bad. i assume you are the second. i hope you are proven wrong because you seem heated about the topic. to the point you sent me an ask about it.

Duffers did make a lot of writing mistakes and choices i disagree with. whether Byler happens or not i do plan on discussing what i had a problem with after watching s5 because i need to see how they will handle the characters’ arcs to make a post as there could be surprises awaiting us. and talk about how i’d handle certain plotlines as a person that can’t write anything coherent.

keep in mind that Montauk, the original ST, drew inspo from It, and if there was a potential season 2 to Montauk, they wanted to straight up go the It route by having the characters grown up and some leave the town then come back when it all gets fucked up again and join forces for the second time.. they do also mention It, and Stephen King as inspiration. you can see it in the current series too. Willelmike is literally a ripoff of the love triangle between Ben, Bev and Bill. Ben’s poem and Will’s painting.. it’s so blatant. and those that watched the movies know how said love triangle ends.

Gayer Things is a great series that i suggest you need to have more faith in.