#but that's a case where the motivation DOES change the result. ride with pictures vs ride with no pictures. stuff like that

[mariyekos]

Reblogging because I want to be able to reference the pictures-

These three lines from Barret are SO important to me, especially because of when this concept comes back at the end of the game. Or this message, really:

The message that it's okay to do good things for selfish reasons. That there's nothing wrong with benefiting from the good you're trying to do for others. That gaining from giving does not invalidate that which you have given.

This got really long, so I'm putting the rest of it under a cut to not clog dashes! Just a warning: I get into some heavy topics like mental illness/health and death. If you aren't really in a space where you feel like you can read that, I can redo this without those references. Just let me know!

It doesn't matter that Barret wants to save the Planet to avenge his friend's death or to find some justice for them; saving the Planet is a good thing to do, and in the end it's the whole Saving the Planet thing that deserves doing. So what, Cloud is going after Sephiroth because of a personal vendetta; the Planet will die if no one does anything, and if Cloud can do it, that's great.

In an ideal world people will want to do good things purely out of the goodness of their heart, but that's often not the reality we live in. So, I think it's fine to take what we can get. And beyond that I just really hold the above message close, that in the end it's okay if you do good for a somewhat selfish reason if that good still ends up being done. Good is good. And that is good too!

On goodness being "better" if it's completely non-selfish (which I don't always think matters much), I have a little anecdote to share. When I was in high school, I and all the other students had to do 30 hours of community service to graduate. You could argue that making teens do 30 hours of community service doesn't really benefit the teens because their hearts aren't in it, but how much does that matter for the community they're helping? Does it matter at all?

Sure it would be better if the teens learned some lessons about humility and aid and all that, but even if they don't, isn't that still 30 hours of benefit for the community? Aren't those beaches now free of plastic bags and litter? Didn't some folks who got to listen to free live music still get a little bit of joy injected into their day? Aren't there now homeless people who got to eat some warm meals? Isn't there now more blood for bloodbanks that people in need will be able to use when the time comes (yes giving blood gave you 4-10 hours of community service)? Sure, most of the people making those things possible might've only done it it because they had to, but does that matter when good was given to the world? Would the person receiving a life saving blood transfusion be upset if they heard that the person who donated some of the blood that saved their life only did it because it was a graduation requirement? I mean, maybe a handful of people might be a little uppity about it, but I think most people would just be grateful to be alive and in good health. I think the homeless person getting their first meal in a week would just be happy to finally be able to eat something substantial. The animals living in the ocean that won't die from eating plastic thanks to a beach cleanup surely wouldn't care about the motivations of the giant land creatures that they will never know saved them; they will just get to live longer (and hopefully happier) lives.

In short: sure, it can be good to do good things for a 'good' reason. But sometimes it's okay to do a good thing for a selfish reason. Whether you're doing community service because helping people makes you happy or because you have to do it to graduate, in the end people will still be fed, people will still be saved, people will still be happier than they would have had the good not been done.

And being able to accept that is something that I think FFVII helped me with. In an ideal world everyone will do good for good's sake, but we don't live in an ideal world, and that's okay.

FFVII says that it's okay to do good for selfish reasons. It's okay if you want to do good for a selfless reason AND a selfish reason alongside it! And that's what's so important to me. It tells you you should not feel guilty for doing good for selfish reasons. For good is good, and good is better than bad or nothing.

Be like Barret. "If there's anything I can do, to save the Planet...or the people livin' on it... Then I'm gonna do it! I don't care if it's for justice or revenge, or whatever. I don't care... Urrrrrgh! I'm gonna do it!" Do your good, and do it using whatever reason you have to. The world will benefit from your actions either way.

I will say that in the case of FFVII it's actually hard to find someone who doesn't have a personal connection to the cause. In the end everyone lives on the Planet, so everyone will benefit from it being saved. But it just so happens to be that pretty much everyone in the party also has some sort of personal motivator to go along with that. So in this case it's doing good for both selfish and selfless reasons, really.

The game goes into this more in one of the Highwind scenes at the end of the game when everyone explains their reasons for fighting so I won't dive too deep into it, but basically, pretty much everyone takes turns saying "I will gain something from this beyond just stopping Meteor and saving the Planet". And the game, to me, implies that "there is nothing wrong with this" either.

If the selfish gain you're getting from helping people doesn't hurt anyone, what's wrong with that? Whether Cloud's going after Sephiroth because he has a personal vendetta or whether he's doing it because he wants to save the Planet doesn't change anything at all. He's not doing anything different. Now if Cloud having a personal vendetta meant he'd go around slaughtering innocents or something that would be different, but in this case the end result does not change and thus the motivation doesn't really matter. It's the difference between him killing Sephiroth and walking away uncaring or him killing Sephiroth and feeling an immense sense of relief. Sephiroth dies and the Planet is saved either way. Whether Barret saves the Planet because he wants to have a good future for Marlene, because he wants to avenge AVALANCHE, or whether he's just helping out his friends doesn't matter, because the end result is not different. The Planet is saved. And that's what matters.

If it doesn't change the result, why would it matter that there might be a hint of selfishness in there, or that the person doing the good might gain a little? I don't think it does. Not in cases like these. Again, it's okay to do good for a selfish reason if that selfishness is what you require to do a little good (or even if it's just a wonderful little bonus!)

Going back to real life, I think a lot of the time people act as if there's something bad about getting some sort of personal benefit out of helping others, or like gaining something from your efforts somehow cheapens the effort. We praise the person who slept 3 hours a night for two years because they were out helping people, or the one who spends five hours a day letting all of their friends vent to them for several years straight?

But what about when only getting 3 hours of sleep catches up with that person and they die at age 35? What happens when the person who spends their day counseling others cracks because they've spent so much of their emotional capacity helping others that their own mental state has completely degraded and they can't do anything anymore because they've lived so long without trying to support their own happiness they've forgotten how to be happy? I've heard stories of the first, I know someone who lived the second. I know other cases of things like this, but I'll stop here. The point is: what happens when people who do good for good's sake end up suffering themself because of how hard they're trying to do good? What happens when selflessness becomes self harm?

I believe there is no inherent virtue in suffering. At times you might have to suffer to do a good thing, and sometimes that good thing is worth the suffering that must be endured to get there. But that good thing is not worth it because you suffered. It is worth it despite the suffering. The suffering is not a prerequisite; it is an unfortunate side effect.

So just as it can be worth it despite suffering, it can be worth it without suffering too. Doing good for good's sake can be good, but doing good for a selfish reason can be good too, if the good is still done in the end.

You don't have to be miserable to do a good thing. It's okay to do a good thing because you want the benefit that good thing is going to bring you in addition to the good it'll bring others. You need not make yourself suffer to help others. Because don't forget; you're a person too, and if others deserve good, then so do you.

It's okay for Barret to want to save the Planet because he wants to avenge Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie. It's okay for Cloud to save the Planet because he wants to defeat Sephiroth. It's okay for Yuffie to fight Shinra and save the Planet because she doesn't like what's happened to Wutai. It's okay for Vincent to fight Shinra and save the Planet because he wants revenge against Hojo and to put Lucrecia's son to rest.

It's okay for every character to do good because they have a personal reason pushing them forward. It would also be okay if they were just doing it for the sake of saving the Planet, but that first reason does not invalidate the second.

In the end, what matters is that they're the ones saving the Planet. It doesn't matter why. No one else is doing it. And if it's between my saviors saving me because they have personal vendettas against the guy trying to destroy it, or no one coming to my aid at all, I'm going with the revenge squad. Something is better than nothing. Good for a selfish reason is better than no good at all.

So yeah. It's okay to do good for selfish reasons.

And as someone who often feels extremely guilty over the smallest things, and who's done a lot of self sacrifice over the years that I've sometimes felt was worth it and sometimes felt wasn't even close to breaking even, this point is so, so, so important to me. The fact that our heroes in FFVII can do good for both selfish and selfless reasons- and that they can coexist- means a lot.

"If there's anything I can do, to save the Planet...or the people livin' on it... Then I'm gonna do it! I don't care if it's for justice or revenge, or whatever. I don't care... Urrrrrgh! I'm gonna do it!"

That's the kind of mentality I want to take forward. I don't want to question myself and stop myself from helping others just because helping others happens to make me happy. If there's anything I can do to help others, I'm going to do it. I don't care if it's because making others happy makes me happy too. I don't need to suffer to do good. Helping others is a good thing and at the end of the day, most of them will be grateful for the help anyway, regardless of why I did it.

There's nothing wrong with being a little selfish from time to time. Indulge. Do good for others, but do good for yourself too. The two can coexist, and when they do, I think it often leads to some of the best results of all.

this is one of those interesting moment where you can have the argument about how Barret started out for revenge, yeah, but at this point it's so much more than that. If anything it's about making sure all those losses haven't been in vain.

it's really emotional to see Barret genuinely having to deal with this grief and this survivor guilt in that sense.

man that scene...