#but like he's gotta have the SNARK. THE ANGER. THE PUNS AT THE EXPENSE OF FUCKASS PIRATES FIRST YA FEEL ME???

[spinjitsuburst]

YEYSYEYSYEYEYYSYSYES IM SO UNWELL ABOUT THIS TOPIC YOU DONT EVEN KNOW

As someone who arguably could be a candidate for a Jay Fan Contest you’re so right dude and you should absolutely say it

JAY’S A STUBBORN FORCE OF ENERGY WHO DOESN’T BACK DOWN OR GIVE UP EVEN WHEN AT HIS LOWEST OR WHEN HE’S ALONE OR WHEN HE DOESN’T STAND A CHANCE

Don’t get me wrong, with my personal tastes in stories I do LOVE a good breakdown or how a character gets so beaten down when in a bad situation like torture you can see them breaking, it’s fascinating to read/watch and on a personal level it’s nice to see characters go through so much only to end up okay and healing in the end. But it’s even more fun and fascinating to see such a stubborn and strong-willed character go through that and STILL keep his snark and stubborn attitude

ESPECIALLY with Jay, who is a person who very specifically deflects his problems with humor and snarkiness. Like the guy was getting beaten and was captured super high up in the air with no escape and enemies around any corner and yet he was still MOUTHING OFF THE WHOLE TIME AND IT'S GREAT

the only times in Skybound he actually broke and became upset was with his parents, losing Cole and Lloyd, and when Nya actually DIED. Which all actually play super well into his character. His parents have always been a sore spot for him - he's sensitive about them and their overbearing nature, but he loves them so much and will do literally anything for them. Not to mention he just learned that they weren't biologically his parents, so he's going to be even more emotional than normal when he sees them next, and he's just been through a LOT. He needed to lean on his parents, to have them take a little bit of that emotional burden just for a moment, before he can pick himself back up and do what needs to be done. We love Ed and Edna in this house

the second time is when they're finally escaping. Note. AFTER THEY HAVE GOTTEN OFF THE MISFORTUNE IS WHEN JAY FINALLY LETS HIMSELF CRY ABOUT THIS. Not that he didn't maybe have a cry sesh in his cell off-screen or something but definitely not in front of anyone else. The second time is directly about losing Cole and Lloyd to the sword. "When will it be enough?! I can't keep losing people!"

THE THIRD TIME JAY BREAKS DOWN. DO I EVEN NEED TO GO INTO DETAIL WHY SEEING SOMEONE YOU LOVE DYING WOULD MAKE YOU A LITTLE UPSET PERHAPS

the point is that all those moments are not about his own suffering. It's about the ones closest to him suffering, or when he's finally safe enough with people he feels like he can breakdown with like his parents.

those moments are so good and really well written. Skybound has... writing issues but Jay's arc is not one of them, and those moments add SUCH depth to his character

I think a big reason why a lot of people shift this way is the uwu-ification of Jay in later seasons (which I have like. my own thoughts about). A lot of people see Jay as a much weaker and more timid character than he was in earlier seasons bc of how he's been written recently and it's very frustrating! But the sparks of his stubborn willpower is still very much present, especially in Prime Empire and Seabound. My mans lost everyone AGAIN and was surrounded by an entire hoard of enemies and he still was able to hold them off until he could summon the dragon to get himself out of there and face Unagami. And in Seabound he risked his LIFE to power the subs battery, and continued to fight even though he was weak from dry drowning. THAT IS NOT A WEAK CHARACTER WHO CRUMPLES UNDER PHYSICAL DURESS. JAY IS SO SO SO STRONG AND PEOPLE WHO PORTRAY HIM AS SUCH ARE MY FAVORITE PEOPLE

again, the only times he breaks down is when he loses nya in seabound. jay's always been strong until it comes to the people in his life leaving, through death or... ocean-ification...? That's when we see him truly break down. It's always about others, not himself

what you say about Jay's condition in the skybound fics is actually very true. 90% of the fandom portrays him as falling at the slightest degree of pain, bursting into tears and begging when in canon Jay NEVER cries or begs in all his torture with Nadakhan. All he does at most is complain silently, and continue talking shit about everyone

we actually need more fics of Jay being a little shit that fights dirty, cheats, and deals damage using the meanest ways to defend himself and attack even when he's getting his ass kicked. I just feel like a lot of fics don't really embody the fact that Jay didn't sit back and let them torture him while he cried, but he actually fought back, he actually continued to be stubborn to the point that nothing Nadakhan did worked.

You're so right and you should absolutely say it. I am not the biggest Jay enjoyer (don't get me wrong, I like him, but I'm not winning the Jay Fan contest any day soon), but I particularly enjoy his arc in Skybound and how that persistence plays into it. Seeing it get put to the side in favor of whatever all these crying sessions are trying to do honestly makes me wonder - do people who write this flavor of sadboy Jay actually enjoy/appreciate Skybound to the same degree that inspires so many of us to write about it, or are they just there for the angst openings? Which does Jay such a huge disservice. I'm still in awe whenever Jay gets that Target ball sized ball and chain slammed into his chest and still gets back up. This is the guy everyone's relegating to weep in a corner? He's throwing stray insults at every opening and then some and the popular fanon consensus is, "yeah, he's completely broken, send him to the pit"??

Now, don't get me wrong, the occasional show of vulnerability is great. Key word there is occasional. To be fair, I would likely be just as unsettled as I am by the sobfest trend if Jay just did Bugs Bunny shenanigans the entire time without ever cracking. It's about balance! Show that development off! Have him get tougher over time! A strategically placed breakdown or slip-of-the-tongue beg can work so well, it's just got to be handled carefully. (Tried it with Nya once in my own Skybound fics, and can confirm: watch where and when it happens and you can say a lot about whoever does it. Granted, I have never tried it with Jay, but same principle!) Sure, let him do it - but not for the sake of doing it. What would Jay think after the fact? How would the crew's reactions affect him? (Fun idea: would he weaponize it, like the back pain scene where he's literally grinning the whole time? Would he deliberately turn on the waterworks often enough that if it ever happens for real, nobody tries to take advantage of it?)

I didn't mean to go on for that long, but yeah! It's a frustrating topic, and I really wish I knew where it came from. Thanks for dropping in and letting me ramble!