#but if you don't let him have cas romantically (and sexually) then honestly why even bother? you've seen the fandom these past 3-4 years

[found--family]

cas coming back in any kind of spn reboot is a given, we know this. he'll interact with dean and we might even get dean addressing the confession. and i know jackles will be the driving force behind any reboot but his history with addressing dean's feelings at cons is like a damn yoyo - is2g if dean doesn't reciprocate and destiel doesn't kiss on screen i'm not watching it and it will join the annals of not-canon along with 15x19 and 15x20 and the canon divergence attempt at a fixit that was dean in spnwin. no destiel means spngate 2.0.

[wellofdean]

Tags from @casandmishasmiles:

#Interesting take#Not sure I completly agree#Cas could know Dean loved him#without knowing if he was “in love” with him#And I don't think it would make him a “wet yearning baby”

I wanted to answer these tags because, ok... yes. I agree completely that not knowing the exact tenor of Dean's feelings would not make Cas a wet, yearning baby. My issue is that FANON so often makes Cas into one, and I have no idea why!

The day I wrote that post, like, three different takes rolled across my dash that had in common the sense that Cas is suffering and miserable because Deeeeannn is so meeeeean! Cas doesn't know he's loved and wanted! He loves Dean so much and Dean gives him nothing! Poor, poor Cas. And like... My point is not that our multiple choice options are either: a) he is a wet, yearning baby or b) he knows absolutely everything (I mean, *I* think he knows, but that's just me, and ymmv, which, like, ok... that's just, like, your opinion, man), it's that c) I don't think the exact tenor of Dean's love actually matters all that much to Cas.

Cas loves Dean as an elemental, incontrovertible, absolute fact. Dean changed him into a creature that loves, and Dean is the origin and object of a love that extends to others and to everything through Dean. I think he will love Dean in whatever way Dean wants or needs him to. It's UP TO DEAN. It's enough for Cas to know that Dean loves him, and he does know that, or nothing he said makes sense. Like, do we honestly think he meant: "Dean, you are love, and everything you have ever done was for love...of everyone except me. I know I can never have that because you're straight and not into dude-shaped waves of celestial intent." Like, does that even make sense? I would argue that it simply, obviously doesn't, and further, I would argue that Cas has what he wants from Dean, and knows Dean loves him because Dean has put his money where his mouth can't manage to go again and again and again, FOR CAS, specifically. Maybe Dean hasn't said it, but his actions are LOUD.

When Cas says "The one thing I want, it's something I know I can never have" I don't think he is talking about Dean's love because he has it, I don't think he is talking about a piece of Dean's ass because I think Cas's love is profoundly unselfish and its scale and tenor is greater than what that take imagines. Like, would he take a piece of Dean's ass if offered? Hell yes! I just think Cas is simply MORE than that, and that his love is of actually inhuman scale. I think he is talking about peace, freedom from manipulation and happiness for Dean, and maybe even with him. I think he wants to give that to Dean, and he knows he can't have that, because he sold his chance to save Jack, and now he is going to use that deal to save Dean. And if JUST SAYING IT is enough to put paid to Cas's deal, then CAS KNOWS. It's Dean who doesn't. So, am I saying Cas's declaration of love wasn't romantic? Absolutely not! Cas loves Dean in every imaginable way, he just doesn't need anything specific from Dean to validate that.

Let's just put it like this: when Jensen says that it doesn't have to be sexualized, I think he is absolutely right (and that even if it is never sexualized, it's still queer as hell but that's another argument), but I also think the exact tenor of the love between Cas and Dean matters, because is matters TO DEAN. Dean, who loves on a human scale, and wants on a human scale. I think it's pretty clear that Dean has been in terrible, aching romantic love with Cas for a long, long time. If anyone is wet and yearning, it's Dean, but let's face it: Dean does not have time to yearn for love or peace, or authentic identity, or sex, or any other self-centred thing, because he can't prioritize that. He is in a constant state of fighting not only for his life, but the lives of everyone he loves and humanity itself against a cruel author/father/God that has manipulated him since he was born.

Dean is under a lot of fucking pressure. I think Cas knows that, too.

Here’s what sticks in my craw: why ON EARTH does fanon imagine that Cas has ‘self-esteem issues’ and experiences his love for Dean as a wet, miserable kind of yearning? What is it about any part of anything that happens on Supernatural makes anyone think that Cas, a cosmic, Eldritch being, a warrior of god, who literally hung the stars and has existed for a bazillion years, is reduced to teenage angst by Dean’s pussy?

Like, when Cas says “the one thing I want I know I can’t have” why do y'all think it’s a piece of Dean’s ass? Why does ANYONE think Cas doesn’t know Dean loves him? Dean has shown Cas he loves him with literally everything he has again and again and again. Even the way Dean feels like Cas can absorb his anger is Dean showing Cas love and trust. Cas and Dean have chosen each other, forgiven each other, and been the only reliable thing in each others’ lives over, and over and over again. Cas fucking knows that Dean loves him. Cas can literally hear Dean’s thoughts, and feel his yearning. Cas was only saying the quiet part out loud when he said he loved Dean, because it was already obvious! If there was anyone feeling wet and lovesick, it would be DEAN, if he ever had a break in the battle to fucking feel things, which he did not.

Like, hear me out: what if the one thing Cas knows he can’t have is the one thing he knows he signed over to the empty? His happiness, and by extension, Dean’s, because he knows Dean loves him? What if Cas is saying: I know I can’t have this thing I want for myself: to be the one to MAKE YOU HAPPY, but I can save you, and maybe Cas’s belief in Dean is such that he still hopes and believes Dean will find a way to make himself happy if he lives.

After Cas’s death, Dean is trying to live for him. Trying to be what Cas believed he was. It’s what CANONICALLY gives Dean the strength to defeat Chuck by not killing him! And, after Dean’s death, he CANONICALLY goes in search of happy endings. Like… THAT IS EXPLICITLY STATED.

I AM HAVING AN ALL CAPS MOMENT, SO SUE ME.

Guys, Cas is not a wet, yearning baby who needs Dean to say or do ANYTHING to validate his love. HE KNOWS. He is a being of unimaginable age and power. He is not beleaguered by self-esteem issues, or the need to tongue-wrestle Dean. Like, he might WANT TO, but he CANONICALLY does not need to in order to experience a happiness so complete that it puts paid to his deal. His happiness is THAT NOW DEAN ALSO KNOWS, and he can tell Dean why, and show him who he is in the mirror of that love.

Also, he is not dead, he is just on another plane of existence, and neither is Dean. Cas is a profoundly unselfish badass. He is not fucking PINING. He made a play, the best one he had. He is a strategist, and he knows Dean BY HEART.

[herstarburststories]

Something About Pride

Summary: It's Pride Month! Dean tries to make sure you feel celebrated today, while Sammy has an inner dilemma about Castiel.

Pairings: Bi!Reader x Dean Winchester, Sam Winchester x Castiel

A/N: I had more alternative titles for that one (too in love to think straight and the gay angel), but this one fits a lot! A bit late, I know.

"Shouldn't you buy him a gift or something? It's like a full on gay Valentine's Day," Dean said in a husky voice, barely functioning in the light of morning as he prepared the daily coffee for him and Sam along with your cold lemon tea.

His little brother didn't bother giving him an articulate answer other than a mild glare at his back. (Y/N) simply rolled your eyes at your boyfriend's statement, a small grin on your lips. Dean could be simultaneously clueless, dumb and cute sometimes.

‘’I doubt Cass knows what pride month is, honestly.’’ You glance at Sam, resting your hand on his arm with a friendly smile. “But I think it would be cool if you somehow celebrated with him.’’ 

‘’Wait,’’ Dean interrupted the conversation, placing the coffee pot and your cup of tea on the table. ‘’Do you want to celebrate it?’’ he asked, suddenly worried about somehow being negligent on something important to you.

‘’Nah, I'm good. Being myself is all the celebration I need right now.’’ You grinned at him, withdrawing your hand arm to grab the cup full of chilled tea. It was adorable how caring Dean was. ‘’Besides, your gift this morning was good enough.’’

The wink you offered, followed by Dean's double-meaning smirk caused Sammy to huff lightly and purse his lips. ‘’Leave the weird kinks for the bedroom, guys. And more silently. I can hear.’’

His elder brother rolled his eyes and claimed the seat next to you. ‘’And I thought he would get some after he got with Cass.’’

‘’I think he would like it,” you continued after taking a sip of your tea. ‘’Maybe you could bring him to a parade?’’

‘’And explain him that pride month happens because people were killed and tortured for loving someone?’’ Sam replied, a hint of harshness in his voice. It was obvious he didn’t want to snap, but it could be a delicate situation when the brunette male thought about it. Castiel clearly knew that love has no boundaries regarding to gender — his angel nature and the fact that he had various vessels through the ages made him indifferent when it came to sex — but he probably wasn't aware that it hadn't been always like this on earth. Part of Sam didn't want to explain too much. For once, he wanted to make himself believe that not knowing could be a blessing.

You laid your eyes on him, a frown on your face. Dean was silent like he usually would be during conversations like this. Rather, he was pouring coffee for him and Sammy.

Sighing, the taller man tried to reason with himself. "I'm sorry, it's just — "

‘’It's okay. I get it,” you said, refusing further explanation. You remembered how nervous Sam was to tell Dean and how broken he was after realizing that John would never know part of what made him who he was. He was paralyzed, even, spine chilled with horror as he’d considered how his father could react. ‘’The accumulation of history, this heteronormative society. it’s buried deep inside everyone. It makes coming out necessary and scary, and even sometimes it backfires as if we were doing something wrong. Some people even tell us it’s something wrong, but that doesn’t make all that we have achieved any less important or beautiful.”

Dean's hand found your high under the table. It’s a soft squeeze and not in the teasing manner that you’re used to. His own little way of supporting you, of saying I'm here if you want to talk or drink about it. I have your back. He has been always supportive when it came to your bisexuality and his brother's sexuality. You pecked his cheek.

‘’I know, it is just…’’ Sam shrugged, his hazel eyes getting puffy. ‘’What Cas and I have — It's innocent. It's good. I don't want him to doubt it or something because of what a bunch of ignorant people think. Does that make sense?’’

‘’Cass has had the hots for you for years, dude. He didn't run away from us when he had to go against Chuck, go to the purgatory or when you offered him rabbit food. He won't leave anymore.’’

Although he coated his tongue with a humorous truth, it broke Dean's heart to hear the fragility in his little brother's voice. For as much as Castiel was his best friend, he was ready to punch the grace out of that angel if he hurt Sammy.

‘’He is right, Sam. Castiel wouldn't doubt your relationship for that. It's Pride Month. History isn't known for being pretty, but victorious. And we won.’’

‘’Sometimes I just wish we didn't have to fight,’’ Sammy said quietly, shrugging while he grabbed the cup of coffee to bring to his lips.

You gave him a solidary glare, an empathetic smile adding in your expression. You held his huge hand in yours, rubbing your thumb into Sam's palm.

‘’I know.’’ What was left to say? It was unfair as most things in centuries. It was revolting. But above all, it was changing. Love was finally being seen in every way. Things were slowly getting better. ‘’But we keep fighting, right? And we get something good.’’ You pulled away, drinking more of your lemon tea. Sam nodded, sniffling a bit while he recomposed himself. ‘’You could keep it simple if you explain, like…’’ 

‘’Tell him it is a full-month of exclusively gay Valentine,’’ Dean suggested, smiling genuinely at his idea and wiggling his eyebrows.

Sam sighed and you scrunched your nose, but had to agree with your boyfriend. That would be a good way to describe it to Castiel. 

‘’You could bring him to a parade or give him one of those tiny rainbow flags, like Captain Holt’s. It's cute!’’

Dean grimaced. ‘’Don't be that chick flick, Sammy.’’

‘’How is that chick flick, Winchester?’’ You arched your eyebrow, almost challenging him to continue.

The long-haired brother just chuckled at you two, rising from the chair with his cup in hand. He needed to think about Castiel and the whole month's explanation deal.

‘’All right, I'll let you two argue alone.’’

Sammy could hear the words that grow more quietly as he stepped away from the kitchen.

‘’Are you sure you don't want to go to a parade or something?’’

It brings an amount of pride that he didn't think he would feel, just like the joy.

Sam Winchester wasn’t the kind of man to get nervous mincing words, especially near his family. That was why he almost felt ashamed when the faint tremble in his voice became noticeable enough for even him to detect when he spoke to his boyfriend.

‘’So, Cass, I wanted to talk to you about something.’’

The hunter wanted to scream stupid at himself for the tiny frown on Castiel's usual tranquil expression. When Sam said similar words to the angel, it was most likely to be a life or death situation, or a Dean becoming a demon situation, or a Chuck about to destroy the world situation.

And he certainly wasn't this anxious when he first brought it up to his brother and you.

‘’What is this about?’’

‘’Full-gay Valentine's Day, but it's a month.’’ Dean arched his eyebrows, pursed lips parting into a proud smile. You slapped his arm. Unbelievable. ‘’What? You agree!’’

You held his arm and dragged him out of the room. Sam needed privacy. As you and his brother walked away between whispers, he let out a breath that he didn't even notice the holding. 

For a split of second, Sammy almost followed you two to bring Dean and his stupid jokes back to the subject.

The hunter coughed, but his angel lover just remained standing there; calm blue eyes waiting for his next speech, head subtly titled to the side because of his curiosity.

‘’Uh, Pride Month.’’

For his surprise, Castiel answered with a nod, ‘’The month of love, I believe? It is very colorful to see.’’

‘’You know what it is?’’ Sammy frowned in confusion, approaching his boyfriend with a soft smile. It was a weird relief. He wouldn't dare to tell Cass how some humans saw their relationship. Not that they mattered, anyway. But it'd haunt him how his lover could react. After all, Castiel was still considerably new to the human world as a dweller.

‘’Yes, I do. A month to celebrate romantic relationships,” the blue-eyed man said. Once he saw the look on Sam’s face, he quickly added, ‘’I saw it on the television.’’

‘’Yeah, it's, huh, kinda like that. But not fully.’’ He gave him a tight smile. Sammy was close enough to hold his hand, and so he did. God, it was possible to feel his body relax just with that mere touch. If Samuel didn't know any better, he'd theorize that he could sense Castiel's grace. But no, it must've been love in its purest form. ‘’It's important for relationships too, but it is mostly about self pride. Like accepting and praising part of who you are.’’

Cass intertwined their fingers, enjoying the way Sam's soul shone brighter to his closeness. It was such a majestic view.

‘’I was thinking, maybe we could go to one of them. Or just have a date. It's kind of our special month on earth. Well, the backstory isn't that nice, but — ’’

‘’Many things in humanity aren't, Sam. You are not a harmonic kind. Like bees,’’ Castiel said, butting into his human's babbling as he noticed how agitated his aura became. As if he was scared for some reason. Sam gulped, the prior anxious feeling crawling back in a bigger form. ‘’Although, it is an honorable celebration for a great cause. I would like to enjoy this with you.”

Sammy's mouth was open in a perfect shape of an O. Features echoing his mixed feelings of intrigue and shock, he had to make sure of what he heard by asking: ‘’You would?’’ 

‘’Yes, Sa — Honey.’’ The graceful being was still learning the perks of being in a romantic relationship. Pet names were a new thing to him, but honey was his favorite. Mostly because of its association with his favorite insect. ‘’We could go for one of the group walks on the street? The sensation to be there seems — ’’

“Freeing?’’ He smiled, pulling Castiel closer to his taller figure with a free hand. Not a worry in earth, hell and heaven catching his mind now.

Castiel curved his lips into a smile. It was tiny, but it was there, just like the hold on his waist. Would every move of his angel make him experience this peaceful embrace? He believed so. Perhaps that was the happiness that he found in the chaos of his life. That his brother found. And it was good. God, it was amazing. Heaven in one angel, just for him. 

‘’Exactly, like pride.’’ Sam's words come only to be soon replaced by his lips pressing against Castiel's in a kiss.

He felt so proud to love him. No one could take it away.

And they wouldn't.

Masterlist

Dean's Sweetheart: @akshi8278

Liked my work? Leave some feedback. Wanna be tagged? Send me an ask or dm. Requests are open.

[go-diane-winchester]

Are people not allowed to ship destiel?

Thank you​ for the very pertinent question.  I, like most sensible slash fans, have absolutely no problem with any ship.  I don't have issues with tinhatting.  When it comes to shipping, I am very tolerant.  As long as you don't hurt people, go ahead and have your fantasy.  Destiel is not a problem.  The militant shippers, or hellers, most definitely are.  Some people I know, used to ship Destiel, before getting fed up and moving on.  We have made a distinction between destiel shipper and destiheller before, until we were blue in the face, but we have to keep repeating this because hellers don't circulate the truth, just their headcanons.  I even did posts about it, but the hellers don't want to acknowledge that.  I have come across destiel shippers.  They are nice people.  They ship their ship and ask for nothing in return, because they acknowledge what slash fiction is and they make no demands of any kind.  Hellers are a beast of a different breed, altogether.  A heller is someone who wants to control fandom's thoughts.  Nobody is allowed to think contrary to what a heller thinks.  And if you do, then you deserve to kill yourself.  I, myself, was recently told to put my head in an oven. 

So what kind of person is a heller?

A heller cannot understand that subtexts is opinion-based, and that not everyone going to see what you see and interpret it the way you interpret it.  For example, the Dr Sexy scene.  Jensen, and most fans, interpreted the scene as Dean was fanboying over meeting his on screen idol.  The hellers insist, even despite Jensen saying otherwise, that Dean was ''crushing'' on Dr Sexy.  The Destiel camp is very headcanon and meta heavy.  Instead of just writing stories, indulging in fanart etc, they are constantly writing headcanon and meta.  Other hellers, just reading the headcanon and meta, just accept it with question.  No debate is held over the analysis.  Why is that?  They don't question meta writers because then they will have to question their ship and they cant question their ship because they want Destiel to be canon.  They can't have it any other way.  If an individual uses Destiel and canon in the same conversation, immediately I can tell this is a heller.  A normal shipper doesn't want to change the entire show to suit her kinks.  And she recognizes that its a kink, a fetish and nothing more.  Hellers don't do that.  They pretend that they are crusading for LGBT representation when they ask for canon.  And why do I have a problem with it?  Its shouldn't be my business what hellers blindly believe or don't believe in the heller section of the fandom, should it?  Unfortunately, it is.  Its everyone's problem, because the hellers believe the meta writers and then they ask questions based on the meta at cons.  They harass J2 over the meta.  The Dr Sexy question is meta-based.  So is the Cas-Collette parallel question.  The Js will be put in an uncomfortable position based on how thinly veiled the question is because they will have to answer honestly.  The Dr Sexy question was a thinly veiled question.  They answered honestly and got bashed on Twitter for it.  The parallel question flew right over Jensen's heads.  Myths and archetypes are something Jared is fascinated by, so Jensen told Jared to answer the question.  And Jared answered the question positively from a literary standpoint.  I guarantee that if he had asked the fan to elaborate on the parallel, his answer would have been vastly different.  They use that as proof that SPN is queer baiting them.   

They cannot differentiate between SPN fandom and Destiel fandom.  When a heller speaks about Destiel, especially when harassing SPN execs on SM, they speak for the rest of fandom.  They say that ''the fans demand a spin-off'' and ''the fans deserve Destiel to be canon''.  And if someone points out to them that not all the fans agree with that statement, they are called a ''fake fan''.  If you don't care much for Cas, you are fake fan.  If you don't like Misha, you are a fake fan.  If you are not ''Destiel positive'' you are a homophobe.  Hellers are notorious name callers.  Their name calling reaches epic proportions when they have to deal with J2 and wincest shippers because these two ships are their primary competition.  They seem to hate sastiel and mishalecki too, but no so much.  They rationalize their  ship shaming by saying that shipping Destiel is the moral high ground.  Because ''wincest is incest'' even though many wincest fans have said they just like J2's onscreen avatars and chemistry, and that they don't condone incest.  But acknowledging that is too difficult so instead of doing that, hellers go on repeat insisting that wincest fans are liars and perverts.  Shipping J2 is also morally wrong because ''they are totally like brothers''.  So hellers essentially want to police fandom and how it behaves and what it thinks.   

The Destiel fandom, primarily, only likes Misha and Misha-related stuff.  They insist that Misha is a lead, and an equal to Jensen and Jared.  They attack anyone who says otherwise, including Jensen and Jared.  Remember, the Nolacon joke that got blown out of proportion?  The only ones who screamed about the joke on SM, where the hellers.  They were taking revenge from Jensen and Jared for saying that Misha not a lead or ''lead support''.  Two people approached me about Misha fans [and these may just be minions and Destiel shippers] who said that they were attacked for not liking Cas or Misha.  One was attacked online.  The other is a kid who is attacked by a heller at school.  They can't seem to understand that you can't force someone to stan a celebrity or ship.  Its a common sense thing, that has to be explained to a heller.  They don't realize that people don't like to be told what to do and who to love.  People like celebrities who are their ''type''.  I don't like Misha.  He is not my ''type'' either physically or personality wise.  I never liked SPN because of him.  I like SPN because of the brothers and the story.  Forcing me to change my opinion is kind of drastic, don't you think?  I am certain that most fans who have a blind hatred for Misha now, used to be neutral fans who didn't have a negative opinion about him previously.  By forcing Misha on everyone, constantly screaming ''where's the angel?'' and insisting talk show hosts invite Misha too, since he's a ''lead'', they have irritated these fans to the point where now the fans scowl and the mere mention of Misha or Cas.  The same can be said for Destiel.  They pushed Destiel so much into everyone's face that fans who were amused by the whole shipping thing previously, no hate anything related to Destiel because they are sick of it.  I have seen Destiel in the AKF tag.  Hellers are also notorious over taggers.  In fact, that is where the rift began.  With the tagging. 

They don't acknowledge that slash is opinion-based.  Although this is an understudied area, I have a hypothesis.  Shipping is based on love.  If you love both the people in the pairing, you will write slash about them, because slash fiction is an expression of love, primarily.  There are some kinky bits and pieces here and there, but they are a byproduct of the love that the writer may have.  Some people cant slash Jared for some reason.  One fan [not a shipper, this is just an example] said, her brother [or was it her cousin] looks exactly like Jared.  She posted his picture, and if I hadn't read the caption, I would have thought that it was really Jared.  So I can understand if she doesn't want to slash Jared with anyone.  It would be weird for her because then she will have to write about him romantically.  One fan said [and this was years ago] that Jensen looks identical to her uncle.  She would never ship him or his character with anyone, because she would be repulsed.  I feel Jensen is one of the most beautiful men on Earth.  That is my opinion.  My cousin watched the scene where Dean is crying over Sam's dead body.  He wipes his tears and when his hands were in the frame, my cousin said ''he has ugly fingernails''.  Did I get offended?  No.  That is her opinion.  To her, his finger nails really are ugly.  And yet she thinks he has a handsome face.  I read a Sevin fic where the writer said, ''Jared has such hot knuckles''.  She is gushing over an obscure body part, because that is probably what she likes.  Hellers don't understand that.  They want everyone to like the same people, for the same reasons, in the same manner.  No diversion from that collective opinion is allowed.  People's desires are not uniform.  How they perceive beauty is also not uniform.  I call Misha ugly, partly because I don't appreciate being told to put my head in an oven and partly because [in my eyes] his behavior made me become sexually put off by him.  I used to slash him before.  Believe me, Misha only started to look ugly to me, when I started to really not like him.  For eight years he was nice looking.  Now I cant stand him and he is the most hideous beast I have ever seen.  That is not just my thinking.  I am certain other anti-Misha fans feel the same way.  They used to like him and find him attractive, until he just put them off.  I am sure if Misha did a 360 and changed his ways, he might start to look nice to us once more.  So technically Misha lost fans because of his own behavior.   

Hellers think that J2 fans are as crazy as they are.  They think bibros love J2 the same way that they love Misha.  Blindly.  In the years that I watched SPN, I remember falling in and out of love with both Jensen and Jared [and Sam and Dean for that matter] based on something that they had done that I had liked or didn't like.  Sometimes where I was emotionally, also played a part how I felt about them, or any other human being for that matter.  People's opinions over an individual will change due to various issues.  Just recently Jensen said something I didn't approve of.  Sometimes Jared puts his foot in his mouth.  They are human so they will mess up.  If they make one stupid mistake, I let it go only because messing up is not something that they consistently do, unlike Misha who doesn't acknowledge or learn from his mistakes.  If they consistently do things to cause a rift in fandom, then there are other celebrities out there.  I don't need them.  I will move on.  So I acknowledge, that just because I like someone, it doesn't mean that he is perfect and will never mess up.  It also means that because I like someone, it is not necessary for other people to like him too.  Even amongst bibros, we have minor disagreements J2 but we don't hate each other based of differences of opinions.  We don't insist that our opinion is the right one.  In the heller camp, meta writers think for everyone.  They decide how people are going to perceive a scene, or a moment during a panel.  In fact, the lower level hellers leaving the actual watching of the show to the meta writers.  They skip episodes that don't include Cas.  That is a lot of episodes they are missing, because Misha, up till this year, was only allocated a fixed number of episodes per season in his contract.  The meta writers watch the episodes through their shipping goggles, looking for what they would consider subtext, and then they write essays based on the episode, and the possible subtext they have found, including flimsy things like shirt colors.  The lower level hellers read it and become affronted that SPN is queer baiting them so blatantly.  They do the same thing with panels.  Instead of watching the generously shared panels on YouTube, for free, they follow a high level heller on social media who attends the con, and tweets something they perceive to be slashily scandalous.  They especially look for something to get offended by, when Jared speaks.  So the lower level hellers were not forming their own opinion but basing how they feel on someone else's opinion.  They hate Jared because of reasons listed by someone else.  If they were smart, they would think for themselves.   

There is nothing wrong with any of the ships on SPN.  Do I believe all ships are equal?  Well on SPN, to a certain extent, sure.  If someone doesn't like wincest, because they are victims of incest, that would make sense.  Wincest fans who acknowledge the abuse are friends of mine.  Those that are cruel about it, are not.  Its as simple as that.  I am a victim of pedophilia.  So I hate weecest.  I don't go near weecest fic.  If weecest fans acknowledge this and leave me alone, there wont be any problems.  If they try to push their kink onto me by trying to tell me how wrong my opinion is, then they will be sorry.  But you cant call yourself a victim, by going where you are likely to find a trigger and them complaining that you are being triggered.  Not only are you looking for trouble, but you are making abuse victims and their triggers look trivial.  Because now they appear like Divas, whom everyone else has to bend over backwards to please.  This allows me to segue into a similar topic.  I have heard complaints from fans, looking up a general SPN fan fic, investing time to read it, only for their enthusiasm to come to a screeching halt because as the chapters progress, Dean comes out as bi and in love with Cas.  Shouldn't the writer notify the reader that she or he is reading a destiel fanfic.  Not only are they mistagging their Tumblr posts.  They are mistagging fanfiction.  Essentially they are duping people into reading their stories.  What kind of indoctrination logic is this?   

Hellers need to understand that Destiel is not the biggest ship on SPN.  If they insist that it is, then they have to quantify that opinion with a number.  They wont because the last time they did that, the number went up to 8000 and stalled.  That makes them 1% of the fandom and they hate being reminded of it.  They have done debunking essays with regards to the number, but then why not do the census again.  Don't debunk with your words.  Use actual data.  Prove to ''all the haters'' that there are millions of you, voting with your remote and contributing to the ratings in the USA alone.  We will never bring up the number again.  Hellers need to also understand that slash is not the point of SPN.  The show is not about love and kinks and soap opera nonsense.  It is about the supernatural, hence the name.  Insisting on making Destiel canon and destroying Jensen's reputation by calling him a bigot because he refuses to do so, is a nasty thing to do, because hellers are not the only ones watching SPN.  Everyone is, and they like the show as it is.  They don't want change.  In fact, it will surprise you to know that wincest fans don't want wincest as a romance, to be canon.  They don't demand anything accept better storylines.  The only people doing the demanding are the hellers.  It is time for dialogue to open between the destiel fans and the hellers, because the hellers are ruining not just the ship but the show as well. 

I hope this answers the question.  Thank you once again, for the ask. 

[orionsangel86]

Agree 100% with your villain meta, but: I don't understand why so many meta writers hold Dabb in such high esteem. He's not a particularly good showrunner, doesn't know how to build a myth arc, keeps killing off women and minorities, has made more steps back than forward with Destiel...I mean, he's gay or something, but is that really all we care about?

Thanks for agreeing with my villain rant... though I have a problem with some of the things you have said. 

First of all, Dabb isn’t gay. But his sexuality doesn’t really have to do with anything so lets leave that out of it k? I mean we do have two gay writers and that’s excellent because it gives me a bit more faith that they won’t end up screwing us over on the destiel front and therefore making this show into the biggest queerbait in all of TV history. (I just don’t see them wanting to be part of something that would be such a huge let down to LGBTQ+ communities ya know?)

But anyway, the reason we like Dabb is because he focuses on the stuff that we enjoy, that we sink our teeth into. The emotional arcs, character development and building on themes that we have been screaming about for years:

The breakdown of the toxic codependency

The destruction of Dean’s performance mask and toxic masculinity

The development of Cas’s humanity into something he is accepting after finally rising like the beautiful phoenix he is out of the ashes of his depressed and broken former self

... to name a few.

So whilst I agree that the mytharc plots are not his strong suit, I still hold him in high regard because I can see what he is trying to do with the characters. The biggest issue the mytharc plot has right now is that it has been left in the hands of Bucklemming, which is a terrible decision all around (and has been since season 12 when they really sank their teeth into the mytharc and rolled with it) though I kind of blame Singer for that more than Dabb - because nepotism. 

So yeah, Dabb has the issue of trying to tighten the reigns on these awful awful writers who wouldn’t know a decent story even if you smacked them round the head with the entire works of Shakespeare... whilst also trying to be nice enough not to piss off his co-showrunner by insulting his wife. I actually feel for the guy because hell, I wouldn’t wanna be in that situation.

Also your point about him killing off women and minorities is kind of flawed... because actually Dabb has been pretty good at keeping them around and if they DID die, he’s pretty much brought them all BACK?

Rowena, Billie, Mary, Even Alicia isn’t technically dead and will most likely return. The Wayward Sisters certainly aren’t (and please don’t use Kaia as an example she is basically set up to be both the main antagonist and love interest in the spin off and is in a prime position to get a hell of a lot of screen time so nope, I don’t count her death.)

In fact the only character whose death still bothers me is Eileen. Which yes, is a touchy subject. You’ll note her final few episodes were all Bucklemming...

Onto the biggest point you have mentioned that I have issue with is about destiel. In what universe has Dabb era been bad for destiel?!?

Okay, so I have quite a few asks building up in my inbox on this topic that I am avoiding until I can sit down and sink my teeth into this apparently common complaint. But I am gonna touch on this here. You guys really think we aren’t moving forward with destiel? Because my opinion is the total opposite of that. Dabb era has given us more than I EVER DREAMED OF getting on this bloody show. Even though I have always been optimistic about destiel, now I feel like it is a less optimistic, more realistic view in my opinion that destiel is endgame. I have never believed in it more. Season 12 was a bloody blessing for Destiel and season 13 has been even better. We are at a point where canon is a hairs breadth away thanks to the brilliant way they have set it all up. The only place I can even think this negativity is coming from is impatience. You all want destiel to be canon like NOW. 

But that’s not how this story goes, for a start there is the moonlighting problem, but also because their whole appeal is that they are, in a way, star crossed lovers, who destiny keeps trying to pull apart, but they always find each other again regardless. You don’t become the greatest love story ever told with 100 hours worth of fluff and romance. You need the tension, the drama, the angst, to build a perfect love story. It has been established in canon that Dean and Cas both love each other deeply. On Cas’s side, thanks to 12x10 and 12x12 it is pretty clear that his love for Dean is romantic (though still subtextual) but on Dean’s side? Honestly right now I think it is impossible to view Dean’s love for Cas as platonic. The mixtape made sure of that. The first five episodes of season 13 solidified that, and 13x06 put the cherry on top. 

Where Carver era built the foundations for a solid destiel romantic subplot, Dabb era has built the frames, the doors, the windows, etc, to the extent that we can truly see the shape of what it will look like as a canon pairing. This is the house that destiel built. It’s freaking beautiful. 

There are a few key indicators I am looking for in the rest of season 13 that I feel we need this season if Destiel is going to be brought to text by endgame, and if I get those indicators then nothing will shift my perception. If I don’t, I will need to readjust my expectations, but see this is the reason why I like Dabb as a showrunner. He does an excellent job on the stuff I care about. Thankfully I don’t give a shit about Lucifer, and whilst I want a mytharc plot that is enjoyable and of a high quality, I’m fine with it so long as I get the emotional development from the characters I am so invested in. That is what Dabb excels at.