#but i think you can acknowledge that and all angeal's good intentions with Sacrificing himself to zack's character growth

[kazumahashimoto]

Do you think angeal is a hypocrite? Personally I don’t understand it. Angeal never intended his death to be honorable, genesis said they had no honor multiple times… he views himself as someone beyond redemption. It feels like it reduces angeal’s honor down to virtue signaling, when he meant every word even in death, it’s just he didn’t view himself personally worthy of those beliefs… he never lied, the definition is comparable to a liar or a fraud, which I don’t think is the intended message of angeal’s character.

I AGREE!!!!!!!!! completely

like i LOVE the wing reveal moment with "then what should an angel fight for, zack? what do angels dream of?" like he's not being hypocritical here, he's stopped viewing himself as a person. even humoring zack in seeing him as an angel, that still makes him not human. the next lines of "please, tell me!" "to be human." always get me.

and even when he says "we must destroy all those who create suffering, and i created my own suffering" he says WE and includes himself, he still holds onto those views even as he sees himself as being unworthy of them now. he's kind of grasping at straws here for a reason why he needs to die, but i don't think it's like in opposition to what he stands for. he's desperate and hurting and still clinging to what he's based his life around.

and i completely agree i don't think he was ever trying to have an honorable death fit for a hero, certainly not when he doesn't view himself as a person. he turns into penance specifically TO dehumanize himself and further justify why he has to die. even the NAME penance, he's trying to absolve his guilt, confessing the sin of being born inhuman. it's not hypocrisy, it's not that he doesn't still believe in dreams and honor, it's that he doesn't fully believe they can apply to him anymore, and he feels guilt for living.

so he has zack kill him, because zack IS worthy of those ideals, zack HAS dreams, he IS honorable. zack, to him, is more deserving. zack is human, and zack is good. i think also, he views zack killing him as a kind of final test, to see if zack will be okay without him. if zack can kill him, then he's taught him everything he can. and, if zack can kill him, he who creates suffering, then zack is even more worthy of his ideals. angeal cares about zack immensely so this moment, to him, is an intimate one. it sets the standard for the many many angeal clones to come die at zack's feet as well.

calling angeal a hypocrite feels a bit reductive of zack's character as well, don't you think? makes his death a bit empty, if this whole time he's been chasing the false ideals of his dead mentor. i really don't think that's what they were going for like. at all. zack IS meant to have had an honorable death, he finally FINALLY managed to save someone, this was him finally becoming a hero. when he dies he asks angeal if he's done it, if he's a hero, and the conclusion we're meant to come to is YES.

SO! no i don't think he's a hypocrite. i think he was self loathing and a bit selfish, certainly, but he believed in his ideals the whole way through. he doesn't die because his morals didn't align with how he actually behaved, he died because he felt like that couldn't actually apply to him anymore, and his continued existence would be sinful because of it.