#but i don't scream about retconning him out of existence or killing him off every time he's a blurry character in the background

[phantasieandmirare]

If you're a RWBY fan and still complaining about the mere existence of Jaune Arc in the year of our Lord 2022 I'm gonna need you to grow the fuck up

[traincat]

I've been ranting to my friends about Johnny being abused and raped recently and one of them said: Lyja has damaged and put an element of distrust into every relationship he may ever have. which is really fucking me up and I wanted to share in part bc I don't wanna be sad alone and also bc I think that's an interesting side effect of Lyja's time in his life that doesn't get talked about enough

Thank you for sharing this because the thing is I do think there is a very definite divide in how Johnny acts particularly in regards to relationships before and after his marriage to “Alicia.” I doubt this was entirely intentional on the parts of the writers who handled the book after, but I’ve said before that I think after a certain amount of time and with enough stories behind them characters tend to take on a life of their own, and even if the writers are hesitant to address it there’s no way an event like his relationship with Lyja couldn’t have deeply effected Johnny.

Simply put: I don’t think “playboy Johnny” exists before Lyja. I don’t buy into “playboy Johnny” much as a general phenomenon, because if you actually look at the canon there’s just not much to actually back it up, but he certainly has at periods played into this public (both in and out universe) perception of himself. What I mean is, pre-Lyja, there is absolutely no proof Johnny had ever engaged in casual sex. (There’s actually no proof he wasn’t a virgin when Lyja began working her way into his life while masquerading as Alicia; this panel from Fantastic Four #275 is the first time Johnny having sex is addressed:

That shirt is Johnny’s – you see him wearing it the issue leading up to this one. To be clear, there’s nothing in the issue that supports this being Johnny’s first time, either – it’s just that he doesn’t have any sex scenes prior. Either way, this is not the reaction of someone who had a good time.)

Pre-the Alilyja incident, Johnny had a grand total of three relationships: Dorrie Evans in high school, Crystal Amaquelin, Frankie Raye. He had a few dates with a girl named Lorrie Melton who called things off with him because he was more serious than she wanted to be, and shared a whole one kiss with a girl named Valeria from the Fifth Dimension (no relationship to his future niece). He also briefly pursued a girl named Julie Angel, who blatantly wasn’t interested in him. When Julie’s friend Sharon came onto him during this period, he reacted with discomfort:

(Fantastic Four #259)

So, playboy Johnny Storm, a womanizer who sleeps around – he doesn’t exist in canon at this point. (If anything, Johnny repeatedly reacts negatively to being kissed suddenly and without his permission leading up to and during the marriage.) Then you have the marriage, which happens fairly quickly – Johnny and Alicia’s relationship is “cemented” in FF #275, they get married in FF #300. I want to note that Johnny’s pretty young when he gets married, especially by modern standards – you have to do the Spider-Man math with this one, since Johnny’s age at this point in canon isn’t stated, but he and Peter both get married at roughly the same time. We know that they’re roughly the same age, Johnny being 16 when he got his powers and Peter being 15 and these things happening fairly closely together. Peter comments very shortly after he’s married that he’s been out of high school for five years, which would make both him and Johnny roughly 23 when they respectively tied the knot. Alicia is labeled during Byrne’s run as three years older than Johnny, but it should be noted that Byrne has a habit of making women younger and putting them in relationships with much older men – which would track if it’s his opinion Alicia first met Ben when she was 19. (It’s my personal belief that she should be older than that, but that’s neither here nor there.) We have no idea how old Lyja is in comparison to Johnny. So he’s young, and the relationship escalates very quickly, which, looking at it with the retcon in place, makes sense, because Lyja is on a mission to infiltrate the Fantastic Four. So it’s quick. The marriage, the Skrull reveal, and the ensuing melodrama lasts… a while after that. 

Then the big reset button that was Heroes Reborn got hit after Fantastic Four #416 and Johnny and family were shunted off to a pocket universe for a little bit, sans Lyja. Fantastic Four v2 is the first look we get at a more playboy-ish Johnny Storm in line with, say, the Chris Evans version of the character – older when the accident hits instead of being a fresh-faced teen, a bit irresponsible, comes off a little bit like he might be a dog. But this reboot canon can’t really keep it up: it reunites Johnny and Crystal temporarily, and then everyone gets snatched out of their alternate reality bubble and planted back in their regular timeline anyway. 

So let’s look at Johnny’s relationships after his marriage:

1) Alysande “Caledonia” Stuart: A young woman Johnny found and rescued in another dimension who lived with the Fantastic Four for a while. I’m including this even though it isn’t strictly a romantic relationship – Johnny appears to have feelings for Alsyande, but it’s unclear if they’re reciprocated or if she just feels a deep debt of loyalty to him for rescuing her. Either way, I really like how this relationship is handled; they’re both very respectful of each other in a way that’s missing from a lot of Johnny’s actual romantic relationships. They definitely didn’t have sex. 

2) Namorita Prentiss: The first actual romantic relationship Johnny has post-Lyja. This one’s another weird one; Johnny and Namorita first get together after teasing the paparazzi and commiserating about being famous. They then proceed to spend next to no time together. Seriously, like, to the point where the books remarks on it:

(Fantastic Four v3 #55)

Johnny and Namorita do do things like attend celebrity functions together, so I label this as Johnny’s first “publicity” relationship – less about being in love, and more about him and the other party looking really good together for the public eye. (This is also something he never did before his marriage.) Anyway, they break up off panel, although Johnny did apparently ask Nita to move in with him at one point, which she refused.

Kourtney: A second and much more prominent “publicity” relationship. Kourtney is a supermodel who we’re first introduced to when she breaks up with Johnny when the Fantastic Four go broke and he falls out of public favor. They do get back together for the duration of Marvel Knights 4, and then they apparently break up again. Nothing to write home about in this relationship – she and Johnny don’t really appear to actually like each other all that much, especially on her end. 

We enter a relationship deadzone for Johnny as we hit Waid’s run. He starts it off apparently shaking off a bad celebrity breakup, and while he goes a bit moony-eyed over a few pretty girls at the beginning, basically nothing happens. He at one point meets up with a girl from the internet who claims to be a fan of his and things seem like they might get romantic… except his body language really is screaming the opposite:

Fantastic Four #514 – I’m not saying how much of this was intentional or even what the intent was, but if there’s something a comic book artist should be good at conveying, it’s body language. Here Cole’s is aggressive – leaning in, touching his face – and Johnny’s is closed off – hands in his pockets, leaning away from her. It’s just interesting if we’re supposed to believe he’s hot for this girl.

Anyway, Cole turns out to be the Wizard’s daughter, catfishing Johnny to find a solution for her unwanted superpowers. So. That lasts two issues and nothing happens between them.

Psionics: And now we enter Millar’s run. Millar’s run is probably the biggest contributor to Playboy Johnny – not only does he have an ill-advised sexual affair with a superpowered bank robber named Psionics, he also gets walked in on – apparently – about to have a threesome with two girls cosplaying as Storm and the Scarlet Witch. I’ve had a problem with the cosplay scene for a while now, because it just doesn’t fit with Johnny’s 616 personality. Something about it has always felt very off. And while I could just go “well it’s Mark Millar,” it occurred to me on a recent reread what’s wrong with it: it feels staged. Johnny’s in the middle of filming a reality show; the camera crew is who walks in on him. If he was trying to cultivate this playboy image, well, one way to do it is to make sure you’re walked in on in a compromising situation. He and the girls are all still fully clothed, and he actually ditches the scene as soon as they’re discovered – to congratulate Ben on his engagement, but still – while the girls frankly seem more interested in each other. It’s a weird scene still, but there’s nothing in it either way to say he was or wasn’t setting it up to make it look like he was the kind of womanizing carefree celebrity party boy who has threesomes with hot cosplay girls while not actually doing that.

As for Psionics, the hot bank robber he sleeps with? Well, turns out her family from the future kidnaps him and uses him as a giant power battery in a machine that has a good chance of killing him. No bad feelings or anything, though.

Again with the awkward body language. He certainly just stands there while she kisses him. This is the exact opposite of smoldering passion. Also, next time he sees her she tries to kidnap his niece, kills his longtime family friend Alyssa Moy in front of him, and then gets murdered right before his eyes. So. That all happened.

He has one apparent would’ve-been one night stand in Hickman’s run after this, except she turns into a bunch of bug monsters and activates the Negative Zone portal. He also has a highly implied brief sexual relationship with Daken Akihiro at this point, who… uses that connection to make Johnny feel horribly guilty over Daken’s apparent death and then so Daken can steal a weapon from the Fantastic Four. There’s a weird pattern here.

Darla Deering: The last and most recent of Johnny’s publicity relationships – Johnny starts seeing Darla, a major pop star, sometime after his experiences in the Negative Zone. This is another “they’re in a relationship but they don’t spend any time together” fling, too – at the end of the relationship, when Darla’s gotten together with Scott Lang, Johnny actually admits that he liked dating Darla because of Darla’s celebrity lifestyle more than he liked her. 

Here we hit Robinson’s run. Johnny does a lot of partying after he’s lost his powers, and while it’s not explicit, there’s something of an implication during this point that he is sleeping around. However, his most serious relationships in this run are with his family, Wyatt Wingfoot, and Peter Parker, and he has no consistent romantic partner. 

Which brings us to his last serious relationship: Medusa. This one’s a weird one, too, and it’s one where I’m not hesitant to blame the writer’s lack of research at all when Medusa and Johnny were genuinely very close during her stint on the Fantastic Four team. It’s clearly a placeholder relationship – we know Black Bolt/Medusa were going to get back together. If anything, I think here Johnny’s holding onto a piece of his then-missing family the only way he knows how.

So, a couple of relationships post-marriage, but by in large, with the exception of Namorita where we see hardly any of their actual relationship on page and perhaps Medusa, nothing serious. Certainly nothing like his impassioned “head over heels” falls for Crystal and Frankie Raye. So there’s very definitely a change in Johnny after Lyja and in how he behaves in romantic relationships – the implication that he does have casual sex, the uptick in relationships that are clearly for the public eye, a lack of a previously held deep devotion to his partner. I think you could make a really good case for all this coming about as a result of lingering and unaddressed trauma from Lyja. 

There’s also, and this isn’t explicitly romantic, the appearance of this little quizzing game:

(Fantastic Four: Secret Invasion) This actually is Lyja in her only appearance since FF #416, disguised as Sue and trying to convince Johnny that Ben is a Skrull for… well for nothing good, obviously, but the book never actually gets into why she’s attempting to separate Ben from Johnny, except that separating him from his family is exactly what she tried to do before she was discovered to a be a Skrull during their “marriage.” But it’s telling that when Johnny feels like something isn’t right, he immediately starts quizzing “Sue” about things she should know. Definitely seems like the kind of game someone who unwittingly married and was abused by a shapeshifter would invent to make sure that the people in his life are really who they’re supposed to be.

So I definitely think there’s a lot of lingering trauma there that, if a really good writer dug into it, could inform a lot about both the romantic relationships he had after that point and his romantic future, especially if it was paired with a story where he explores his romantic feelings for men. It’d be interesting to see it doubled up with doubts after his relationship with Daken in that regard, since Daken also used him to gain access to the Fantastic Four. I’d love to see it all really gotten into and actually, for the first time, addressed, especially if it was in the context of a romantic relationship with Wyatt Wingfoot, who was present during the early days of Lyja’s seduction of Johnny and is also who Johnny ran to after he discovered the truth about the monster Lyja told him was their child. A lot of history to get into there.