#but he was probably blaming it on jane's 'barrenness' instead cus it's not like he was going to accept blame himself

[fideidefenswhore]

"On leaving the company I took Cromwell apart, who assured me that the King was very well disposed to listen to the matters of which we had treated, and as to the Princess, the King had lately told him that he felt himself already growing old, and doubted whether he should have any child by the Queen; for which reason he intended, in a few days, to declare the Princess heir of the kingdom..."

I've been doing research on Thomas Cromwell for my novel, set in 1537, and found this. Do you think Cromwell was lying here? And why? I know it's all conjecture but I'm curious what you think. Love your blog btw <3

you're doing background, i assume? since that quote is from 1536?

i think you can assume that angle wrt to mary, since obviously henry never did actually do that (i mean, sort of and conditionally, in 1543, behind prince edward and his heirs). there's certainly the possibility that he did say or plan this, and then just reneged (ie, cromwell was giving chapuys 'temporarily' accurate intel, just unbeknowst to him), but i don't think that's likely. likelier is that cromwell is lying (er...'misrepresenting'), or chapuys is (perhaps, willfully) misrepresenting or misinterpreting what he has told him.

as far as the 'by the [present] queen' aspect goes...well, that's interesting. despite the recent popularity of weir's claims that jane became pregnant mid-1536 and miscarried later, there is just no evidence for this, beyond a "colourful but secondhand story" printed by thomas colwell, in the elizabethan era, in which henry suggests she's with child late in 1536 at a public court event, and some gossip by a faraway source (which doesn't really corroborate the former, bcus if the latter were true, then jane would likely have had a child by october 1536, not *still* be with child in late december 1536, as the former implies). his former two wives both became pregnant within months of their respective marriages. he possibly was feeling/fearing that he was without hope of future issue, and expressing this, based on precedent, which cromwell might've used to suggest or imply to chapuys that mary's chances of being declared heiress were still strong, to maintain warmer anglo-imperial relations and balance that diplomatic tightrope, leave options of alliances open etc.

it was unusual (possibly unprecedented?), for example, for quickenings to be celebrated as jane's was in 1537--

"as it was not customary in england for public announcements to be made about the pregnancies of the royal family, physical signs and hints in conversation provided courtiers with the only evidence of the queen's secret" (retha warnicke)

so...why was it? distraction from the reprisals of the pilgrimage of grace? or was henry making a point of having it known and dated as an...overcompensation, of sorts? there were large gaps between his surviving children, henry the nyp in 1511, princess mary in 1516, fitzroy in 1519, princess elizabeth in 1533. the last long-term pregnancy of a wife resulting in a living child had, by 1537, been four years prior (and so had celebration relating to that, which might be why bonfires and free wine were provided here, as they were in 1533 to celebrate princess elizabeth's christening) and 'vigour nor virtue' lived in infamy, he was likely at pains to 'prove' it was untrue.