#blergh I'm tipsy and now I'm CURIOUS AND WANT AN ANSWER

[thistlecatfics]

question from the ever curious and thoughtful @slashmarks​ : “how did slughorn edit his?”

which I think is also “how did slughorn edit his so poorly?” 

(sorry I’ve had, er, most of a bottle rosé tonight and so my answers may be both unnecessarily forceful and incoherent) 

I think that part’s so not so hard to understand? slughorn is like a “I’m going to shut that chapter away!! it happened this way!! the end!!” and that’s why his falsified memory is so clumsy. versus snape, in this possibility, who is an expert occlumens and really stews in his memories over and over for a decade and slowly and precisely makes them what he wants to remember? (but I know this is all a stretch) 

ok it’s so hard to do deep dives of a text in which 50% of the time the answer is just “it’s magic!!” like... how do pensieves take in all this information that an individual could not have possibly perceived? I don’t like the answer “it’s special magic!” but that feels like a likely explanation given how much Dumbledore based his war strategy on these memories? 

I think this is an area where I go more into my social work/therapy background and less on my critical-reading-of-canon horse (which is @slashmarks​ ‘s blindingly brilliant expertise!) I tend to go less to magic as an explanation and more to human behavior and trauma and memory, which is all so faulty and so internally motivated and so easy to manipulate. and so utterly fascinating and is the kind of stuff I want to explore in fic. 

I see the logic of: pensieve memories show us things the individual could not have possibly remembered in detail because we see that happen in canon and dumbledore uses those moments as key in building his war strategy 

BUT we also have Dumbledore saying explicitly that Harry should note how wonderfully detailed his own memory is? implying that there is something about how the individual perceives their environment that impacts what is in the pensieve? 

I’ve reread books 1-4 and 7 during quarantine and I think this has finally pushed me that I need to reread 5 and 6 and offer you a more cogent theory. (am I a coward who doesn’t want to read Sirius and Dumbledore dying? perhaps.) 

How do you feel about James threatening to take off Snape's underwear in front of a group of fellow students? And using that to try and coerce Lily into a date with him? I've seen different takes which included sexual assault (which isn't wrong by our standards, per se, including showing underwear in the first place) to teenage antics. Basically, how do you feel this action reflects on who James is as a person - ignoring the arguments of Marauders vs Snape being "justified" or not. 1/2

2. An aside, where does it say in book text that Mulciber used Levicorpus against Mary Macdonald? (I think I saw that in a discussion on meta here.) I can't find any part of the book that confirms what was actually done to her. For what it's worth, I tend to think of the characters all fighting a small war during the marauder era, and find "who bullied who" discussions pointless, especially in the later years.

First off - I cannot be entirely sure I did not send this ask to myself in a fevered state because this is exactly what has been bubbling around in my head for the past week. (so, uh, that is to say, thank you for the ask, anon.)

Second - everything we get about the marauder’s era is through 2+ unreliable narrators which is why it’s so fun! I just reread SWM and am going to offer a few potential interpretations. I’m very much open to more.

Rereading “Snape’s Worst Memory” right now, the first thing that stands out to me is that it is Snape’s memory but the details around James Potter and co are almost absurdly clear given that Snape is “as deeply immersed in the OWL paper as ever, which left Harry free to sit down on the grass between the beech and the bushes and watch the foursome under the tree.” It’s a little difficult for me to understand how everyone is situated but why are the details of MWPP’s conversation intelligible to him?

A few questions right from the start:

To what degree is Snape’s pensieve memory reliable?

To what degree should we see this as a school-based proxy war vs bullying?

To what degree is this moment an aberration vs typical?

“Snape reacted so fast it was as though he had been expecting an attack.” (hyper-vigilance, trauma-response, training, situational awareness, been listening in - lots of ways to read this)

“Students all around had turned to watch… some looked apprehensive, other entertained.” (everyone assumes something is about to happen)

The initial dialogue (grease marks on the parchment) feels super schoolyard bullying.

Scourgify - choking him, seen described as “waterboarding” very cogently though I’m still iffy on that, but we do know it’s very much the lizard brain not the thinking brain that reacts to that - you’re terrified of drowning like that, wizarding or not. It's quite a cruel thing to do.

“Leave him alone.”

“I will if you go out with me, Evans,” said James quickly. “Go on… go out with me and I’ll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again.”

“Quickly!” is such a useless adverb! There are still so many ways of interpreting that! Quickly as in - he’s said this so many times he doesn’t have to think about it? Quickly as in - he’s not thinking and he says a stupid 16 year old thing which he regrets soon after? Quickly as in - this is fun, almost mutual banter? (doubtful as her earlier statement was said “coldly.”) But also like... what the fuck, James? What the actual fuck?

Ok then Sirius says “bad luck, Prongs” briskly, and Snape reaches his wand. Snape curses James with a spell that leaves a gash across his face “spattering his robes with blood.”

(to be fair to Snape, faces bleed super easily, and a shallow cut on the face will bleed just horribly as any rugby player will tell you.)

Then James sends him upside down. Everyone laughs, and even Lily’s “furious expression” “twitches.”

Then we get the Lily/Snape/James interaction bits - they’re fighting, James undoes the Levicorpus and then the Patrificus Totalus at Lily’s insistence, and then, famously, Snape says, “I don’t need help from filthy little Mudbloods like her!”

Sirius gently mocks James “who looked furious now.”

And the scene concludes with:

“There was another flash of light, and Snape was one again hanging upside-down in the air.

‘Who wants to see me take off Snivelly’s pants?’”

Honestly rereading the chapter I was hoping for some clear insight, and my main reaction is that I have a renewed understanding for why there’s so much debate about this memory!

Without any context, the concluding moment, that James feels humiliated over a rejection by a girl, and he then physically restrains another man, shows off his underwear and threatens to take them off in front of a crowd, feels like standard issue sexual violence (in the sort of hazing/bullying type.)

In context, given that we know Snape and his friends are about to be (or already have been) inducted as Death Eaters, a process that involves murder, this feels like a school-based proxy war in a larger fight and while it might be sexualized violence, it’s not so outside the pale as it would be in our own high school context.

Alright now that I have thoroughly confused myself and gotten nowhere, let me focus on the actual questions given.

"Basically, how do you feel this action reflects on who James is as a person"

Badly! It reflects badly!

To me, I see him as your typical Social Justice Bro - he’ll say the right words, fight against the Baddies with genuine fervor, but he still very much sees women as prizes to be won in exchange for his good behavior.

This is SUCH a common type of person and the idea that Quidditch star, wealthy only child, brilliant Jame Potter falls into that trap is not surprising.

I see there being three options fans can take here:

This memory is accurate and representative: James Potter, like many men, fights on the good side but harbors misogynistic views and treats the women in his life like objects and is willing to use sexualized violence against others as a means of asserting his own masculinity.

This memory is accurate but not representative: This is the worst James Potter ever acted. He never behaved this way again. He apologized to Lily. He did his feminist reading. He worked on his own shit. (I think this is the one JKR wants us to take? But who knows and who cares with her.)

This memory is not accurate: Snape, being very smart and very highly motivated, like many people like him, has slowly and steadily edited his own memories to better fit into a narrative he feels comfortable with. (This explains why his recollections of the MWPP conversations are so accurate and unflattering and also why he seems to have done zero healing or maturing in the past 10 years and bullies children. He has been stewing in his own edited memories rather than healing and moving on.)

I can vibe with all of them, depending on what kind of story I want to write/read/imagine.

where does it say in book text that Mulciber used Levicorpus against Mary Macdonald?

It doesn’t. I think I remember the meta you’re referencing (I remember it being very good and interesting!)

“Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, he’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?”

…

“It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny-”

It’s super vague in canon. I interpret it as an act of sexual violence, because that’s where my brain always goes, but it’s incredibly vague!

Anon, I hope you don’t think the fact I managed to write 1,000 words and weasel my way out of answering your questions means I don’t deeply appreciate them! I hope you have a stupendous evening <3 <3