#bc it isn't just like: HOMOPHOBIC PPL BAD!!

[saph-yells-into-the-void]

the amount of DISDAIN I get from some ppl saying that blue flag is written for the straights.

girl I did not stay up til 6am reading this manga, tearing up and crying bc of how much I saw myself in characters like touma and masumi and how painfully relatable their pain/struggles were just for you to say that blue flag is for the straights

be so fr rn

[tirfpikachu]

the mainstream qweer community is full of hypocrites.

if you don't accept afab4afab or amab4amab ppl, you cannot accept transmascs4transmasc or transfems4transfems. or even those who are transmasc4transfem. bc that's still choosing to be only into your same sex/agab, aka "bigoted." and the thing is, y'all have those so-called bigots in your ranks already. are all transfems truly attracted to other transfems? are all transmascs really attracted to transfems? you say that t4t is valid because it involves trans people. but based on your logic, it's only valid if it doesn't involved that person's agab, right? so you better make sure that everyone in your camp actually follows that logic. because from the outside, the mainstream lgbtq community is a huge hypocrite. to avoid being a transphobe, all afab people need to be into amab ppl & viceversa. stay consistent! cuz it's getting confusing seeing your own club be obviously transphobic for daring to have a sex/agab-based sexuality. if that's the case you obviously need to do conversion therapy on yourself, like y'all expect of us "terfy" exclusive afab4afab & amab4amab homosexuals.

you are feeding right into the homophobic rhetoric that homosexuals are all genitals fetishists who have the audacity to have their sexual and/or romantic attraction determined by the person's body type, secondary sex characteristics, and even the person's upbringing and all the culture and shared experiences involved in that. being exclusively same-sex/agab attracted is a marginalized experience. seeing it shamed within lgbt spaces is fucking outrageous. if you are trans and exclusively same-sex attracted, you need to SPEAK THE FUCK UP for those of us who lost our voice on the matter for not being trans. i know that transition can affect things. i know. i know that sometimes, someone turns out to be attracted only to afab/female people and transfems, or the same with amab/male people and transmascs, and those are really cool, valid sexualities too. but our brand of gayness is valid too. we are worth existing. we belong in the lgbt. or if we don't, we're getting tf out of there, because we're tired of apologizing for being our authentic selves. you need to grow a tougher skin and realize that you will get rejected sometimes!! sometimes, your body type, your personality, your quirks, etc will mean you won't be compatible with someone. someone saying oh sorry, i'm only into amab/male people, or afab/female people, isn't an insult. you should be more confident in yourself and your identity. you cannot put your own worth and sense of self in someone's hands like that, especially not in dating. it's not just unhealthy, but also extremely harmful and legit dangerous, and bad news for everyone involved. how many homodykes i know have tried to be with transfems out of guilt? how many were pressured to try girldick to prove they were good allies? how many transmascs called cis/non-trans gay men bigots for having a so-called "genital preference" and not giving them a try? that is the sort of creepy shit that i expect of cishet men, not of lgbt people. this shit is not okay.

it genuinely will (and has) lead to sexual abuse, predatory behavior and a loss of community. you are making so many homosexual people, trans or not, feel like they have nowhere else to turn to for support. and then you're shocked when they orbit radblr, or get hateful and end up fully anti-trans. i have many beloved trans friends, and i want to advocate for trans people's happiness, safety and acceptance. but i'm also a homosexual lesbian. and i fucking refuse to not celebrate that. it's my birthright as someone who's female, or afab, or more accurately ofab and is only into others who were born like me. i'm not a creep, i'm not a bigot. my sexuality is wonderful and does not dismiss your own. against a lot of radfems, i'm even supportive of transbians and trans gay men; though nothing ofc is above criticisms and i do believe homosexual-exclusive spaces are still valid. despite all that, because i'm a homodyke, because i was born this way and openly say it and learn to feel good about it - against what cishet society wants me to do - i'm seen as betraying my own community. that's honestly pathetic. if y'all won't welcome exclusively same-sex/agab attracted people, we on radblr will. we homosexual bio/cis men & women, and even trans people, will form our own community and advocate for our own rights. you are losing out on phenomenal allies right now. you need to moderate your own spaces, or before long you'll look around and only see unhinged bigoted chronically online weirdos, while we do actual lgbt activism.

[apollos-olives]

If I may ask - and this is a question that is genuine and by no means trying to dehumanize of offend you - but what is it like to be queer and Palestinian? Palestine is a majority muslim country, altho I am aware that that does not mean that you are Muslim or belong to any other religion that Palestinians follow but if you do follow a religion, then what is it like to be queer because again, to my knowledge being queer or rather engaging in non-hetero relationships (i apologize for my wording) is forbidden. So how does it work, if you follow a religion. I'm truly sorry if this is in any way rude but my question comes from wanting to know more and not from a place of malice

i've actually talked about queerness in palestine before and honestly it isn't more or less special than any other country. almost every country in the world is homophobic as well. palestine isn't special with it's homophobia just because it's a majority muslim country. i'd get hatecrimed in the america more than i'd get hatecrimed in palestine, i can tell you that.

i am muslim, and i follow what i think is best for myself. i've studied the qur'an and have looked into queerness in relation to islam from the qur'an directly and yk what i found? nothing. the qur'an never mentions homosexuality. the story of prophet lut 3alayhisalam is the only thing the qur'an even gets close to mentioning about queerness. i'm not going to go into the full story but basically god destroyed an entire village for committing "indecent" acts, which were rape, pedophilia, premarital sex, infidelity, and along with that, the people of the village also were having same sex relationships. it's very explicitly clear that rape, pedophilia, infidelity, and premarital sex is not allowed, since those rules are mentioned in the qur'an more than once, but homosexuality was never even mentioned in the qur'an at all. it's only implied outside of the qur'an through passed down stories that the people of the village were homosexuals, and the islamic community decided to basically discard the rest of the story and focus on homosexuality only, so they translated the story into "god crushed a village of homos bc they were bad ppl so being homo is bad" even though the context and the direct translation of the qur'an never even brings up that the act of homosexuality itself is a sin. god didn't punish those people because they were gay, he punished them because they were commiting horrible sins like rape and pedophilia. they were just having same sex relationships on top of that, which god never directly condemned or even mentioned in the qur'an.

god always has rules for a reason. premarital sex is a sin because you may become diseased, and god wants the best for you so he forbids it. eating pig is a sin because pigs carry diseases and are generally unclean, and god wants you to be clean and to be well so he forbids it. etc. etc. etc. god has rules and reasons for everything because he is fair and just. there is simply no rule about homosexuality being wrong, and also no reasons as to why it would be wrong.

and even with all of that, so what if being gay is wrong? why would god create me this way if he didn't love me and accept me for how HE created me? doesn't god love all his creations? doesn't god love me for being true to myself and loving others as well? i don't think it's wrong, in any sense of the way, to love people. because if there is no harm in it, what's wrong with love?

and one thing i love about islam is that doing one sin only counts as one sin. we believe that certain actions and good deeds can count for many times it's weight. praying 5 times a day counts as many good deeds as praying 50 times a day. reading surah al-ikhlas even once counts as reading 1/3rd of the whole qur'an. our good deeds are magnified, while our bad deeds are only singular. while one good deed may count for 50 of them, one sin will only ever count as one sin. a muslim eating pork one time will only be counted as a single sin. a muslim having premarital sex one time will only be counted as a single sin. and IF homosexuality is a sin?? well. that only counts for one single sin. it's so easy to go to heaven. if you're a good person, you'll make it, even if you're gay or trans or whatever else. it doesn't matter. one sin compared to a mountain of good deeds is not going to affect you. that's why i love islam. god is kind to us like that.

and being trans comes into the equation as well. many muslims are against trans people because they believe it's a sin for a "man" to be effeminate and that it's wrong to change your body bc god created you perfectly. but like... there is literal science proving trans people exist. and the topic of dysphoria proves it even. if trans people are so dysphoric and so mentally harmed by not being able to transition or pass that it affects their mental or physical health, isn't it wrong to forbid them to receive treatment?? and what if the only treatment that works is for them to directly transition? god allows any permanent altercation to the body as long as it's for health reasons, and being trans is most definitely a health reason. god wants us to love ourselves, not harm ourselves. and the people who complain that it's "changing how god created us" make no sense because what if someone was born deformed and wouldn't survive without a surgery that changed their appearance? are you going to just let them die because you don't want them to change their appearance because that's disrespectful to gods creation? no, of course not. being trans is a health related thing and god always wants the best for us, especially when it comes to health and wellbeing.

as for me, i have an uncomfortable relationship with my own queerness. i don't like or use labels, and i don't consider myself part of the lgbtq+ community, because i don't feel welcome there. but i'm still queer. i've had queer relationships before and i'm open to having them again, but i'm just very skeptical of actually being in one. i've kind of resigned myself to a point of "semi-celibacy" where i don't actively seek out relationships nor do i imply that i want one, but IF one day, something happens... well 🤷‍♂️ something happens. i don't think i'll ever get married though, because that'd be a whole other religious story, but as much as i'd like to go out and have relationships, i think my safest option is to be celibate until i've decided for myself later what i want to do. not to punish myself but just so i don't get distracted and stray away from god accidentally.

in the end, being queer as a muslim depends on the specific muslim and how they view their relationship with their queerness and their relationship with god. it's different for everyone and it's only up to a persons own self to decide what is best for them and their religion. i've done research about queerness in islam for myself because i simply could not live with myself if i actually knew that being queer was wrong, and it isn't, so i'm alright now.

muslims aren't horrific with their homophobia, just misguided and misinformed. that doesn't mean i hate them or try to convince every muslim i meet to agree with my views abour queerness, no, because it's only up to the person themselves to decide not to be a bigot. the reality is that most muslims are homophobic and that's it 🤷‍♂️ they may be wrong, but it doesn't mean anything in the end.

we as palestinian muslims need to be given our basic human rights to EXIST before we move onto queer liberation. we must be liberated on a humanitarian level before we are liberated on a queer level. palestine simply hasn't had time for queer liberation because we're too busy fighting to survive. and even then, i do believe it's absolutely justified for palestinians to be anti lgbtq when many lgbtq people are actively calling for our genocide. doesn't mean it's right to be a bigot, but you must understand that if my entire family got massacred in front of my eyes and my entire house got bombed with me inside it, and the people who did it were raising a rainbow flag... well. i would hate whoever stands behind that flag as well. bigoted hatred comes from a place of fear and hurt and misinformation. if palestinians haven't had time to unlearn homophobia, of course they will be misinformed about the queer community and fear it. it's only fair.

this was a wonderful question and i'm glad you were curious to learn more :)

[antrea]

hello

if you wanted to know my thoughts about morgan frost and his decision to follow donald fucking trump on ig here they are. if not that's fine this is kinda my own ranting exercise lol

also i don't think this ramble will follow a structure so sorry about that.

ok so as many ppl will know i was in japan during election day (did mail in early voting due to this) so i didn't really react to much on the tumble but invasive thoughts would follow me if i was just sitting there trying to relax in an onsen or like waiting for a train or something. and it would just like frustrate me to no end. like i know in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter AT ALL and there are much more serious things to be worried about instead of some random athlete's political stance. but it's just horrible as a fan to find out that i dedicated all this time (and honestly money - looking at you, adidas stadium series jersey with full stitched lettering) to supporting a player and now the question is like ok so which are you: are you homophobic/transphobic, sexist/women-hater, racist/xenophobic, a climate change denier, etc. etc., all of the above, or what? but you know it's like my own fault for trying to think i know these people (didn't you learn this lesson from kpop? i guess the fuck not) like just bc he seems to treat his sis and mom right and seems to be a nice boy to all the media doesn't mean that we know him!!! d'oh!

then there's the whole like canadian aspect of it all, like well thank goodness he's not actually american and could vote for this guy! but then sometimes it feels even worse that he's canadian and STILL likes some part of trump enough to follow him on ig the day after the election (and yeah i used some third party app to confirm this, because if he followed trump back in 2016 or before for the memes and shits and giggles and didn't unfollow later, honestly i would prefer that so much over following him in nov 2024.), when literally ryan poehling who owns like trump books doesn't even follow the guy on ig then wow you must fucking LOVE trump then. it makes me SO mad. like if the actual conservative americans on the team -- which i'm sure there's a bunch -- don't follow him on ig and you're making a point to as a fucking canadian then like -- !!!!!! like just keep your politics private at that point because i do not want to fucking know!!! why exactly do you love him so much?!?!?! fuck!!!!

i also feel so bad when i think of ppl who have been following him and the flyers for so much longer than i have bc i literally didn't know who morgan frost was this time last year so it hasn't even been long since he's been my favorite athlete and i already feel like this :(

the final thing i've been grappling with is like how do i go on from here. as i bet everyone could tell just by looking at my blog this year i've basically giffed the shit out of him and taken loads of pics as well at voorhees or at games. in the list of upsetting and annoying things, i KNOW that if this was like any other team's player and they did something like this i would be like "ew gross, that player is gross and so is anyone who is still a fan of them". but then it's happened to MY fave guy and i'm just like :| like in general i think it would be great if i just stopped stanning real life people entirely but it's so hard. i think one thing that has helped is that frost has kinda sucked overall this season so i haven't even needed to see him much lmao. i think the best i can do is just dial back my posts and thoughts about him and just treat him as an Average Player. again, it sucks, because i'm out here going like "well i can sort of still like him because he hasn't done anything like actually posted 'yay trump!' or like explicitly endorsed him" but isn't the follow itself pretty telling of him???? again it's like how freaking of a hypocrite am i for not holding the same standard for these privileged white men just because this one was my fave and the others don't play for my team.

i guess one thing i'm completely ok with is let's keep the rpf rolling lmao. esp if he's a homophobe or something let's keep him kissing boys.

[dairy-farmer]

Sorry if you've already touched on this, but what are your thoughts about the discourse/discussion about Tim in the comics and Tim from the lens of A03/fan fiction?

For example, I hear a lot from old comic fans about how the series with Tim dating Bernard was doomed to fail bc 'the writer wrote him like her fanfiction version of Tim and not the real character'. There was a lot of discourse with canonical announcing Tim as queer, and that's kinda all these older comic book fans seem to keep coming back to. Idk, there just kinda seems to be an underlying feeling of misogyny towards the female writers and anti lgtbq vibes that it's hard to hear like a real arguement against the series.

I guess as a long time a03/Fandom person, I'm so used to just creating another little reality for the things I disagree or want to explore with a character, that it's strange to see people so upset that Canon doesn't flow the way the want.

it's no problem!! and i haven't really touched on the newer comics all that much mostly because i also don't particularly like them, not for any specific reason-they're decent enough but i don't really think they're 'tim'-but i do know what you're talking about. on twitter and tumblr i see a lot of different takes regarding tim and how he's written in this newer robin series.

for starters: i get what you're talking about where criticism of the comics might partly because of anti-lgbt attitude. especially since tim getting confirmed to be bisexual made A LOT of people mad (including ppl who arent homophobic but are mad that it wasn't THEIR favorite robin who got confirmed queer like dick, jason, or damian etc). comic bros and even casual comic fans who had never even heard of tim or even gave a shit about him were now furious. and while there might be ppl with genuine critiques- some of hatred of the way tim is written in the newer comics you really have to take it with a grain of salt because it very well could be comic bros hating because "robin isn't gay".

same with the writer, meghan fitzmartin. in general, women DO have an uphill battle when it comes to working in comics because it is very male dominated. and it's no secret that a lot of comic fans are opposed to women writing in comics. so misogyny, and even jealousy also plays a role with how much criticism is ACTUALLY warranted. but that doesn't mean a woman in comics isn't allowed to be criticized if they do a bad job or do a botched execution when their job is supposed to be making good, enjoyable, stories that do justice to the characters. i do think meghan may have some decentish ideas but whether she genuinely has the writing chops to deliver on those big ideas is well...iffy. but then again i genuinely don't keep tabs on comic writers or they're projects so maybe that will change.

when it comes to the critique of tim being written like a "fanfiction" version and not a "real" version of him i do see what they mean.

when I think of fanon tim I think of all the mischaracterizations that have been popularized. a coffee obsessed gremlin that doesn't sleep who is deeply insecure and agonizes over his place in the family, thinking he doesn't belong. people LIKE that tim is portrayed like that (in fanfiction) otherwise that characterization wouldn't be so pervasive in fics (there's also the possibility that a lot of ff writers DON'T know any better because many don't read comics but they do read fics and so they base their portrayals solely off what they read in fics resulting in this racoon eyed, coffee loving character who they believe to be an actual portrayal when it's really just someone's idea/exaggerated interpretation of tim).

i really don't see a lot of that in meghan's writing, the issues with tim's writing with her are different. if anything WFA is the one that really have the 'written as a ff character' vibe. but that series is also SUPPOSED to be deeply unserious as a fun slice of life universe where nothing goes wrong for anyone ever as a soothing balm for the oftentimes depressing stories in batman comics.

but in meghan's writing I also don't see a lot of what i consider to be core tim values. is she the best writer for tim? no i don't really think so. but there is a certain degree of understanding for his character. I see the comics and I can recognize that it's tim. so it's not offensively OC.

a lot of complaints seem to stem from his relationship with bernard being too much of a focus. people say how tim does too much thinking about him when...he was a lot worse in the 90s with steph. I remember getting so irritated when entire comics of robin would be narrated by steph or about her, i'd be like 'I want to read about ROBIN and his adventures, not steph, why is she even relevant?'. but tim's relationships to other people are a core part about him so you just have to take it.

the part that i think is justified in critique is in talking about whether her writing of bernard dowd is good. that is a much easier thing to answer. and its that its not good writing. in fact it's a pretty bad, inaccurate portrayal of him given how he was written when we first knew him. he's sort of been...sanded down? kind of remade into some new, almost unrecognizable character that fits into what she believes would be a nice, wholesome, gay partner for tim. which is an issue for me because we have seen and know what tim is like in relationships. tim had tension with, disagreed with, got annoyed with, fought and argued with his other partners like stephanie and ariana. but he also enjoyed himself and was happy with them. there was a balance there of good and bad because tim's unique situation of being robin made it so there had to be good and bad. with bernard it's all very passive and easy. they don't argue, they don't really fight, or have any struggles in their relationship when trying determine compatibility. avoiding tension in the relationship when tim has a track record of it makes it almost seem like she's afraid of the risk of portraying a gay relationship in anything less than a golden light. which is not good writing. BUT it is also very NEW. so maybe that will change (but there's a similar problem with jon kent and his bf so idk)? i personally believe kon would've been a more ideal partner with their shared history, chemistry, tension, the fact that fans have wanted it for decades, and the fact that it would've been such a good addition to the arc of self acceptance for kon's character. and many of the issues that tim being with bernard wouldn't be a thing because tim and kon famously don't see eye to eye 100 percent of the time and so their relationship would struggle and grow as they go from friends to romantic partners.

ultimately in my opinion to write a truly good tim drake you need to be able to accurately portray the thing that made him such a great robin: his heart of gold. tim cares about doing the right thing SO much. he cares about helping people. he's not some cold, unfeeling calculated computer who uses people as pawns and abandons his morals at the slightest inconvenience or seduction to the 'dark side'. and he's not some coffee drinking hacker man that is 20 steps ahead and smug about it.

tim worries about people, he's upset at injustice, feels guilt at not being able to save people, is judgy, sometimes a brat, sarcastic, gets angry at people for throwing their lives away, gets very invested in things that catch his interest, is too curious for his own good, nosy. he lies through his teeth and then bats his eyes in sweet as pie innocence. will think VERY rude thoughts about people but will bite his tongue because he's a nice boy👼 but sometimes things slip out. he is somehow simultaneously able to be the 🥺 and 😈 emoji at the same time. his odds of making bad decisions increase by 100 fold if in the company of other stupid teenagers.

now i write tim as a very exaggerated version of that core self. that's what a lot of ff authors do. they choose a handful of traits they like best about him and spin entire fics about it. i don't think writing tim as a fanfiction version of himself is a bad thing because some fanfic is genuinely better than the source material and that comes from being very good at understanding the character. the tim of today can't be written the same way he was in his golden age, the 90s, because a lot of his struggles and hurdles that he dealt with in those comics are over. they're done. tim can't be 30 years old and still wondering if he's doing a shit job as robin. tim IS a good robin and he should be able to acknowledge that (funnily enough one of his clear acknowledgements of that is often wiped away by fics- that being the titans tower scene where jason asks if tim thinks he's the better robin and tim, without hesitation, says yes) a lot of older fans are clinging to problems that tim has already resolved. he's not thirteen and insecure about his abilities. he's not on his first relationship with someone (but he is in his first relationship with a boy). he's not still learning how to navigate his relationship with batman and the rest of the family or struggling to come to terms with his civilian and caped life. do some of those things still trouble him on occasion? yes but they're not the main focus anymore.

tim has to have new problems, new challenges, new growth.

i had some hope for new tim comics.

would i like to have seen more tim centric material or at least good stories. and often times in the new tim comics tim was exactly the same at the end of the issue as he was at the beginning. tim struggling with his identity is something that made an appearance in 90s comics a lot but I think for the newer ones that it would've been better received/more interesting if it were...written better?

idk. i don't know a single comic fan that loved every detail of their fav's comics. was it the best run? no. but it was okay enough i guess. it was lukewarm, not standing ovation worthy but also nobody should be throwing tomatoes at the performers either, it just earned a polite clap of acknowledgement which i don't think is a very bad thing but still i hope we get something better!

[bru1sed-apple]

this isn’t to dig on ur anti zutara post but rather start a discussion.

in my experience, the reason we zutarians don’t like zukka is because of the animosity we get from the fandom. we analyze the subtle details we are given because practically every zuko and Katara interaction in the show is because all of them save the first have some degree of zutara in it. their chemistry- be it platonic or romantic- is undeniable.

and yet, we are told by zukkas and kataangers that we are wrong for shipping the ship. a lot of zukkas sideline the women in atla- sokka is given a lot of Katara’s qualities that are stated in the show (ie: people claiming that sokka is the team dad when he literally confessed that he saw Katara more as his mother than his actual mother), mailee is just there (majority of the mailee fics on ao3 are just them being a side couple in zukka fics), and not to mention comradekatara’s posts from back when they were lesbians4sokka about Katara being homophobic. even if it was a joke, it was something that people took seriously. a lot of the same zukkas are the ones making fun of katara for talking about her mother’s death when that literally happened three times outside of the southern raiders episode.

dont get me wrong, I know that the zutara fandom was absolutely rabid in the early 2000s and that’s where we get our bad reputation, but the only time that we’ve had issues with other people in the atla fandom was when they interacted with our content and it blew up.

Honestly you make some points I agree and disagree with so I'll go one paragraph at a time

1.

I do agree that some zutirans get hate that isn't deserved. I definitely think that a lot of the fandom doesn't like zutartians, I'm part of that group as well (for the most part). I also do think they have chemistry, but more in a way that's more like family rather than lovers.

I think the over-analyzing is a bit too much, I'm overwhelmed every time I see a zutara post. Obviously, some analyzing is okay, I sometimes analyze ships, but I feel like zutartians do it sm that it feels kind of annoying?? Maybe that's just me, but I feel like you don't have to analyze things just to justify your ship. Just ship what you like

2.

I agree with the fact that zukka shippers tend to sideline women in fics. I've def read fics where katara is sort of villanized, and I definitely don't agree with that. A lot of the time, ppl prefer MLM ships to than WLW ship, (which if you ask me, is because ppl prefer male characters to female ones (*cough* misogyny *cough*)(though i dont think most of the misogyny is purposeful))

Idk if it's bc we're in different parts of the fandom, but I've never really seen ppl say that shipping zutara is wrong?? I've seen ppl say they don't like it, and why, but they always state that they don't care if people ship zutara and that they're only stating reasons they personally don't like it.

Perhaps it's because I tend to stay away from the more toxic part of the community because if I see smth I don't like I more often than not just scroll past. But I def believe that their are zukkas who are toxic, but I think some of that is just because ppl are toxic, no matter what fandom you're in.

I can't really speak on kataangers because while I do like the ship, I'm not really in that part of the fandom, so I'm not sure if ppl are unnecessarily mean to zutarians.

(Edit: nvm kataangers can be real assholes, I def believe that they're unnecessarily mean to ppl who dont ship kataang 😒😒)

3.

As for the zutara Fandom in the early 2000s I can't really speak on that bc I didnt watch atla until I wanna say 2017 or 2018. So I don't really know what the fandom was like.

So yeah, that's kinda my take?? Idk I spent like a good while trying to figure out what to say 🤧🤧

[june16th2018]

things i deeply hate in tokyo revengers (and its fandom)

tw opinions

(disclaimer: tkr is one of my fav manga ever)

1 • the animation

the anime adaptation is absolutely hideous and extremely offensive bc what the fuck?? this is so bad and yet yall are eating it up.

everytime i see an edit of the anime i just start shaking and sobbing uncontrollably (especially the takemichi ones bc how can you guys find him handsome in the anime when he's even uglier than kiyomasa)

my friends and i have this really fun challenge where we have to watch a tokyo revengers episode without laughing at the animation (we always end up failing after like 3 minutes)

2 • those dumb kokonui shippers 🤓

don't get me wrong, i love this ship sm i want them to get married and have kids

i just hate ppl who enjoy this ship for this exact panel :

it wasn't romantic shut the fuck up

koko is a really well-written character who is clearly in pain after losing a girl he was in love with (as silly and childish his crush on her might have seemed) and with a very visible mental instability, and yall are choosing to close your 12 years old ass eyes on that just so you can have ship content, gross

again, i love kokonui, but stfu

3 • the toxic y/n/ocs enjoyers

i don't see the point of calling shippers weird if you are yourself a characterxreader enjoyer or an oc creator 🤓

4 • most likely to be a pedo 😇

those weird grown ass ppl drawing or writing the characters in a very sexual way?? if it's a fanart/fanfiction of their adult version then i guess it's okay but the ones when they keep the design of the 2005-6 timeline?? hello??

same goes for grown ass ppl enjoying this content

5 • mischaracterization

chifuyu isn't a soft baby 🥺 stop treating him and drawing him like a goddamn baby it's just embarrassing as hell. same goes for takemichi, yall are wild 💀💀

sanzu isn't canonically a crackhead (i still eat this hc up but just bc we saw him take a pill ONCE doesn't mean he's an actual drug addict like what if he just had a headache and needed aspirin)

koko isn't a sad and exhausted workaholic in bonten, the only panel of his bonten version we got was his wide goofy sassy ass smile and he was saying smth about killing ppl i don't quite remember 💀

draken is in love with emma, i'm tired of seeing drakey shippers in denial, like yes he does give a fuck about her, stop saying he doesn't 💀 also their ship is awesome i love them sm

btw little reminder to every kisanma/hankisa enjoyers : kisaki is homophobic

6 • "takemichi x all"

this might actually be the worst thing ever

takemichi isn't the ultimate rizzler yall

this is embarrassing and yall need to grow up 😐

7 • the way yall are sleeping on naoto

this man is so fine plus he's so determined to save his sister i know my brother would never do the same 💀

8 • the neverending bajifuyu vs ryufuyu war

why

[inchidentally]

ouuhh that's not…

I swear I read it three times and looked through their blog hoping they were joking alfhaslfkh nope

BUT I do not want anyone to engage with this so I'm hiding the link - not just because it's ridiculous but because the best way to confine rpf ship drama is to leave it alone. (edit: so I lied abt this asofgsalfga I did reply to one person but only bc they put it in the main tags) I don't rly like blocking but I also don't want to have to create a million filtered tagged posts on my dash - and tbh I don't think anyone I've blocked will care anyway. this way I can still see carlando content for fun but none of the fandom nonsense.

I'm mostly posting this bc up til now I rly wanted to set aside the behavior of the fandom to continue enjoying carlando content but I just can't be bothered anymore. between the larrying and the rampant, disgusting casual misogyny - and ofc the competing with which friendship or fake ship blorbo 1 and 2 are "happier" with asgfjsalfglja. and it's not just this latest thing I get sent tweets and posts abt whole agendas to "prove" that Lando isn't "happy" with Oscar/Martin/insert man who is currently considered threatening to their concepts of Lando's relationships. some ppl even friendzone Max F and Lando and pretend Carlos means more to Lando than him so there's no limits to the insanity.

so for me atp there just isn't enough about carlando to make it worth constantly being reminded that the way too many of it's fans truly believe that these are two men are either as close to each other as they are to their real, acknowledged close friends and/or in a secret gay relationship, that their girlfriend(s) are cold-hearted PR plants/escorts rigged by an evil all-controlling PR department and once the blorbos are freed of homophobic forces (oh god Carlos' old tweets tiktokboom) they can finally have the kind of toxic heteronormative version of a queer relationship that is right with the universe.

like, rpf is only meant to be for fun and more important it is meant to be kept away from anyone involved/the general public !! but when ppl's delu results in the actual women these men choose as their partners being at best aggressively cropped out of pictures and videos* and at worst stalked, harassed, their families and employers harassed, abuse and slander left in comments sections on popular social media and team pages - yea carlando laughing together sometimes and slowed down bro hugging isn't enough lol

it’s also slightly the fact that if you picked a bunch of Lando’s reactions to Carlos and Daniel and no one knew context clues then no one would be able to tell which one he’s reacting to. Carlos/Daniel teases Lando, Lando shriek laughs and goes red, James Corden style gay innuendo, slightly tense undercurrent of men wanting to one up each other with jokes, iterations of bromance that are half sincere and half for the cameras, hashtag hashtag. Lando goes to Daniel's ranch on a whim, dando is special. Lando goes to Carlos' sister's huge society wedding, carlando is special. Lando's family likes Lando which makes carlando special. Lando and Daniel share mutual friends outside of racing which makes dando special. like, it's the same dynamic just rotated around at different times. I enjoy both ships to a certain degree but I'm kind of mystified at ppl choosing to see them as super deep and meaningful and worth fighting over.

side note g o d do I fully embrace that ppl who do these ship competitions and larrying nonsense have ZERO interest in landoscar bc we love Lily and support Lando in his many probable conquests - and bc the Lando and Oscar dynamic isn't a big bromance for the cameras and has no fake gay for fangirl consumption.

like yes pls absolutely consider landoscar inferior to carlando if it means they stay away from inventing conspiracy theories and saying they "just have a bad feeling" about Lily and start attributing everything Lando has achieved to his teammate instead of himself.

also I could be SO incredibly mean using charlos vs carlando and the difference between PR and the public trying to tear one apart but it persisting vs PR and the public being a major factor in the other persisting at all. or the fact that charlos does everything ppl want carlando to do. but there's no point spending more time on people who think that two adult men - who've both said they're as much rivals as friends and the bromance is more what the public sees - are laughing in metrically different and lesser degrees of happiness with their new teammates vs a former teammate.

like, as long as I can now not be exposed to those opinions then they have a perfect right to express them. god knows I'm not saying my blogs is worth a damn but at least I don't trash anyone's gf or try to stunt on other rpf ships for no reason

tl;dr I'm p much done trying to make carlando worthwhile for me to rb or post about. I enjoy seeing it on my dash for myself but that's it! no one will be affected by this change lafhlsahf

*I know there are a few ppl out there who do this bc they have a no-private life policy on their blogs and that's np. they aren't die hard carlando fans tho.

[dlstmxkakwldrlarchive]

the way members are stereotyped even in the year 2024 makes me INSANE. Minho homophobic jock. Kibum gayer than he actually is like they want him to be a white gay so bad and he really isn't like hes actually just normie gay. Taemin either uwu audhd quirkbean or gay as well meanwhile he's giving aggressively heterosexual. Jinki boring old chicken yoga. Jonghyun I don't even wanna speak on because the way he's talked about and stereotyped these days is a big fat MESS

no bcs you would think a group that has been around for 16 years wouldn't have to deal with something like this but WRONG and it's not only new fans that do it like old fans do nawt joke abt making up shit lol. 'I'm a debutwol so i know x and y 🤓' FAWK OFF bcs these are the same ppl who started labeling minho as violent bcs of some inside joke during that vlive with the other members and joked that he was the one who broke kibum's arm in hard era or are conviced that actually the reason jinki doesnt strip is bcs he likes to 'tease jjinggus'

and jjong being reduced to #taeminniesmom pisses me off so much im sorry

[c0rpsedemon]

ppl, mainly white lgbt ppl, have a longggg history of liking lovecraft work but not knowing how to address his bigotry and there are two main strategies i see irt this:

1) the most common one is the "it's abt me now" which is when they like to go off abt how awful lovecraft was as if he's a cartoon villain (and yes lovecraft was bad but in the grand scheme of things he didn't rlly take it out on anyone else and he at least seemed to become less bigoted as time went on so like. as far as racist historical authors go it's strange how ppl decide that This is the one that's treated like he's the fucking boogeyman or smthing) but the emphasis all comes down to "actually i'm spiting lovecraft by jacking his shit bc he would hate me bc i'm gay/trans" when like. lovecraft didn't give a shit abt gay/trans ppl. he probs didn't even Know they existed. the only evidence for him having negative views of gay/trans ppl is a severe misreading of the thing at the doorstep which comes from hearing a summary and not actually reading the thing, or going in in bad faith (the horror isn't 'gasp! edward thought he married a woman but she's rlly a man!' it's 'gasp! poor asenath lost her own mind and became her father... literally!' . like lovecraft was Very scared of inheritted mental issues asenath is a borderline self insert for him). lovecraft was racist, classist, and antisemetic . he was not homophobic or transphobic . it's not abt you. and hey he rlly would like you jacking his shit actually . he loved when ppl did that. (honestly he might even be ok w it if you Were in one of the groups he was worked up abt. like he Rlly wasn't that dedicated to his bigotry he literally married a jewish woman. also anyone jacking his shit at all was like the best thing that'd ever happen to him he rlly wanted ppl to do it bc he felt the more references there were to things like miskatonic university or arkham asyllum or the necronomicon the more real they seemed and the more mindfucky it was. and i think doing his literal favorite thing in the world is a p effective way to get him to overlook everything else). sometimes the "spiting lovecraft" is just adding monster sex bc he'd be sooo scandalized by it. babes he created innsmouth and wilbur whately he would Not gaf and i doubt you've actually read any of his shit 0/10 strategy accomplishes nothing and spreads misinformation

2) i call this one the "actually he wasn't involved in this at all" . the 'arkham asyllum was created by dc comics!' approach. mainly seen in fans of re-animator 1985 who like to call it a frankenstein adaptation. 0/10 you are Lying

[bijoumikhawal]

Part of the problem with MLM fetishization discourse (mainly found onTwitter, but i see it here too), is that people see effeminacy and femininity in men itself as a fetish, and therefore can't be assed to understand actual issues we face with regard to sexuality

It's impossible to talk about fatphobia, underlying assumptions often related to white supremacist beauty standards, adultification, ageism, etc that feminine men experience because people are too busy getting in a tizzy over a guy wearing skirts in media. One of the big issues for me is hypersexualization- I was getting sexualized at a very young age for being what I am, it's a big issue historically, and a lot of media I could access when I was younger was basically just porn/erotica. And that porn/erotica was often like. Racist, it hypermasculinzed Blackness in comparison to white effeminates, and it only portrayed fem men as submissive bottoms (which isn't itself bad) whose effeminacy was humiliation, and submission was bc they're worth less than "real men"

And like, the joke is people are so focused on wether or not people writing femmes who bottom is bad (it's just a thing that happens irl) that you can't talk about anything else. It's also a form of hypersexualization. The only other thing ppl wanna discuss is "heteronormativity". Fiction where femmes are fucking isn't a bad thing with that being said, and desexualizing us is also a common homophobic thing to do, and tends to loop back to the "less than a real man" thing.

And like, "yaoi"/"BL" isn't the big driving factor in hypersexualization here. If nobody in the US knew what that was I still would've been getting hit on by men twice my age at 16 (who sometimes would loudly advertise their interest in femmes specifically, or more accurately, "femboys" and "tr*ps").

And honestly when you deal with just like- grown ass men looking at you that way, people moaning and bitching that the big concern for fetishization here is basically wether or not the character exists only deepens the shame felt from those interactions. I was made to feel uncomfortable and gross because my gender presentation was seen as sexual when I was a teenager, and all this shit does is go "yeah, it is sexual, when I look at people like you I think about sex and how the sex you have is bad". And part of my Ick with portrayals of femmes is that we're assumed as submissive bottoms because I'm not, but this is still deeply harmful to people that are because you're telling queers the way they fuck is morally wrong and you're instilling shame over it.

And like... actual fetishization for me is more often when femmes as objects of sexual desire are seen that way through a lens of "you're a faggot so you're beneath me, you should thank me when I call you slurs and do xyz, you're trash, shaving you so you have less body hair (so you look more feminine) is a punishment and symbolizes my superiority" because it's just intracommunity femmephobia/effemiphobia with a boner.

Its not that other things are non-issues but cis women clumsily writing a masc/femme dynamic is probably more likely to make me laugh than feel ashamed or disgusted, and instances of feminizing a character for bigotry reasons in fandom are less common than people complaining about effeminacy existing at all (including with femme transmasc characters, especially because usually those aren't being written by cis people). The actual things that have made me cringe with shame and disgust about cis women's view of feminine and effeminate men sexually are more difficult for me to unsnarl because I see it less often, and it's sometimes more visceral because while I was sexualized by men I was actually abused by women, but I'll be frank; those things usually aren't occurring in discussions about fandom.

When I get disgusted in fandom discussion isn't about femme characters existing at all, or top/bottom/switch- they're about people acting like writing romance/erotica about men fucking is the sacred right of cis women and any discussion about equity in publishing means you're attacking fandom when they're two different things, and that that right is more important than the fact that queer men can struggle to get published in romance- and subsequent issues with poverty. Or the insistence that to be fetishized you need to be a woman because fetishization is stored in the pussy (revealing they haven't thought about racism in the romance genre, and don't think about trans women). Its about queer men in fandom writing smut and getting harassed by women who write the exact same type of it because the way they do it is somehow bad. It's about my sexuality being seen as piece of land to fight over, that I'm not supposed to be on, not writing about men in fishnets.

[schizowitchic]

re: the last post i reblogged i am now going to rant about biphobia i have experienced and am experiencing! yay /s

(under a cut bc this got way too long)

so in secondary school i was in a friend group full of queer people, majority of whom were bisexual girls (at the time. a couple are now nonbinary / asexual) . and they were very big on the whole "bisexual culture is liking every woman and 2 men" thing, a lot of "ew men" jokes, and all in all general "liking women is better than liking men" "why am i dating a gross icky man i should be with a woman".

now i am more attracted to men than women, not by much, its typically fairly equal, but i definitely have a leaning towards men. and i repressed that for AGES. because it simply was "frowned upon", so to speak, from almost everyone i was close with

(for further context for the rest of this. i am not out as genderfluid. i use she/her pronouns irl and ppl know me as a cis woman. i am not really out as aromantic, when i identified as aroace i did tell a few people but i think they either completely ignored me or forgot. lol.)

nowadays, i tell my friends i am bisexual. one in particular always seems to forget, constantly calling me gay/lesbian, assuming i have no opinion or that my opinion will be "ew no" when she asks if i find a man she likes hot. (she has told me so many times "why am i asking you this you don't even like men". i have told her i am bisexual several times) (she also thinks it's funny to call me & another friend "f-slurs" . she says that not the actual word but still. i have to find it funny bc she gets so defensive if we imply she's homophobic)

(i do call myself gay bc i consider none of my attraction ever to be straight. i have no major issues with being called a lesbian apart from the fact that. yknow. im not a lesbian and have never identified as such)

i made a post a while back saying something like "help im being biseuxal erasured". because i am!! i am stuck in yet another situation with people who are either mainly attracted to women/only attracted to women/don't often talk about their attraction to me & also two cishet girls who are attracted to men in a very different way than i am (one of whom erases the fact i am attracted to men and the other who i don't like and probably assumes i'm a lesbian bc of how often everyone else says that)

also full of "ew men" jokes!!. might i add.

i literally have no space to talk about the way i experience attraction, i have to water it down and pretend i only like women, pretend i am interested in romance, pretend i feel attraction when the occasioanll bout of extreme sex-repulsion hits, take (albeit censored) homophobic slurs, sex jokes about me & another female friend that are getting uncomfortable.

and pretend like the main perpretatror of this isn't being at all queerphobic. (she also has massive racism and antisemitism issues. although my friend did throw basically a whole book at her face when she made a really bad joke). to the point where i no longer consider her a friend but i can't say that bc then im overreacting and i'll get the same bullying ostracisation treatment & my friends are still gonna hang out w her so i can't avoid it

people wonder why i am aplatonic when throughout friendships i have experienced: making fun of me to my face & behind my back, bullying, homophobia, biphobia, aphobia, ableism .

like what the fuck. im sick and fucking tired of having nowhere safe to express my sexuality bc let's be real, the internet often isn't the best space.

ive made my peace with either having to compromise my aromanticism or my allosexuality irl (ie either be out as bisexual or out as aroace) but apparently i can't even freely be bisexual without people making assumptions and at this point im just waiting it out until i can hit restart and try make new friends

[epickiya722]

I really wanted to say something abt it, as you brought up how ppl seem to want Toga and Ochako to fight over Deku.

It reminds me of when some bkdks say that "If one of them was a girl, nobody would bat an eye and say that they are canon right away", and while i think that's true to some degree, i think things wouldn't change that much if Katsuki was the girl, specifically. At least, not when it comes to this group.

Bc, Kacchan is somehow controvertial over him being a schoolyard bully and insicure kid, and the fandom blowing it WAY out of proportion. I think that would happen the same way if he was a girl, but now added a much thicker layer of mysogyny.

Bc then they would most definitely pit him against Uraraka, just like they do to Toga, and be as horribly sexist as one can possibly be. Bc just like Toga, he wouldn't fit the perceived "perfectly sweet, wholesome submissive wife" role that they want Uraraka to be in so badly.

I'm saying this reminds me of what you said, bc this group, (made all basically of men), don't hate togachako and bkdk just bc they're homophobes, no, they actually hate any ship that have these two with other characters.

Bc they also have a twisted want for mha to insert in some harem shit between any girl Deku has a any interaction with so they can project onto him as the protagonist surrounded by women, and in the end be satisfied with seeing Uraraka become the pretty, submissive housewife bc that's her job as the nice main girl.

So if anyone else has a genuine shot with Deku or Uraraka, it breaks that illusion that this is what they are going to get, no matter what. And that's what they are used to getting.

Absolutely agree, Anon!

I feel like if Katsuki was a girl, there would be that group of people who would call her a bitch and "she and Izuku wouldn't work out" and definitely would view Katsuki as too "dominating" due to personality.

I hate this for several reasons because if you're shipping IzuOcha because you view Uraraka as the "perfect, submissive little wife" and that's it, you are not a true fan of her.

Like no one who is a genuine fan of her would look at her as just some "wife" for Midoriya because she's "meek and sweet".

First off, she's not "meek and submissive". Uraraka isn't a shy character. She's a lot more outgoing and social than Midoriya himself is. This is the same girl who even decided to do her internship with GUNHEAD, a Pro Hero named GUNHEAD.

Yes, she is a sweet soul. Yes, she is kind. But Uraraka isn't meant to be a girl that should be viewed as submissive because she is a nice girl. On Midoriya’s part, it's like saying he must be with her because "that's what a real man would do". He can't be with a guy, he can't have emotions. He can't cry. It's the only way some of these "fans" will actually like Midoriya. If he "gets his girl" at the end. Even though the story never was about them like that. Hell, if it was, Uraraka would have been introduced in the first episode and Midoriya would have some monologue about liking her or she is seen admiring him from afar behind some trees.

They don't care for his or Uraraka's characters like that.

Sexist and misogynistic, indeed!

Second, damn, can these kids like finish school first? We really need a timeskip where they're married? Like they can't beat the bad guys first?

Like I want a graduation timeskip! Ain't this story about how Midoriya and the others become great heroes? Last time I checked, marriage isn't needed for them to be good heroes. If it was a requirement, All Might would have been married.

And the harem thing? Ooooh, the amount of headaches I have probably gotten from going into certain tags on AO3 and here and seeing Midoriya being shipped with every single female character before I can get to the filter and exclude buttons.

I just can't sometimes, Anon.

I know a lot of Shonen and other genres in anime and any other media have certain tropes they use over and over, but sometimes it's nice to break away from said tropes.

Off topic kinda, but speaking of harems and girls, I love how in canon that they girls don't harbor romantic feelings over Midoriya and fight with each other. I also love that while they express Todoroki's pretty boy status, they don't fight over him either. They mention he's handsome and move on. Like I love that right there.

When some common tropes are taken and twisted into something a little more tolerable or feels not so played out.

[demonsfate]

Me when I see an unhinged reddit post from one of *those* Kaz stans: Jin get behind me!!!!! Seriously though. Sometimes I think we all play/read/watch Tekken content differently bc what on earth are they on? Lmao. Not saying they are all like that, but still.

LOL. I deleted those posts 'cos I felt like I was ranting a lil too much, maybe getting too worked up. But the thing is, I wouldn't even care about these takes. Because everyone has a different take, and sometimes there are people with bad ones. But the problem is, the "Kazuya did nothing wrong and is being villainized only because he opposes Heihachi and Jin" is a POPULAR take. Not only do I see it more than I should, but the fact that I go to the comments and see a(n un)healthy amount of people agreeing with the take is just... so wild. I really feel like sometimes I am transported to an alternate reality where Tekken is totally different.

I really just thought we'd... stop getting these takes after the demo. Because yeah, while it didn't help Jin's character that much, but... Kazuya is literally threatening genocide, boasting about how for "as long as he lives, people will die" and also tried to kill innocent people in the middle of the street. I thought that would make people realize Kazuya is indeed a full blown villain who has done a lot wrong. But no... strangely it has not. It's just so bewildering to me.

Again, it's okay to dislike Jin. I understand it. He got done dirty in Tek6, and they're not doing the greatest job at writing him. But I just can't stand it when people put him down for things Kazuya is doing, or when Kazuya is arguably worse than Tek6 Jin. You can't hate Jin for [doing war crimes] and feeling remorse, but then acting like Kazuya is better despite [doing more war crimes] with zero remorse. It's just a bizarre mindset.

Also, to the point where they're reaching and actually hating Jin for crashing Kazuya's helicopter and destroying buildings?? They're actually saying Jin is killing hundreds and that proves he isn't a good person. Like are they being serious? In both Avengers and Superman (Man of Steel) - scenes like this happen. Where the superpowered heroes are fighting the superpowered villains and buildings are just wrecked left and right, cars are tossed around like they're softballs. But nobody in those movies ever bring up the casualties caused by the heroes, how many lives were lost because of the heroes. Nobody calls Captain America a careless villain. You know why? Because these are FICTIONAL ACTION SERIES. Yes, realistically, in real life, destroying big buildings and blowing up things would kill hundreds. But real life is boring. When you're watching an action game or movie, you want to see lots of action - action includes destruction. You don't wanna see the characters carefully fight in the streets, that slows the action down. That's why heroes can get away with destroying stuff, because it's entertaining to watch. The people in the building don't actually exist, they're not even seen, so we don't have to actually acknowledge them. And I get joking about this - but there are fans that are legit villainizing Jin for this. Like people are talking about this rather than Kazuya literally saying he's gonna wipe out countries lmao.

I guess I just get really tired of the hate Jin receives. Whilst I understand Tek6 will cause people to dislike Jin - but it's unfair to hate him but then act like Kazuya is good despite doing the same actions as Jin (if not worse actions). It's unfair when they hate Jin for being "emo" and saying he's annoying because... he hates the devil gene??? Go figure. And then the weird homophobic hate against him he gets sometimes? (Like there are a weird amount of ppl that calls him slurs) It really just feels like a lot of ppl just pick any reason to hate this character. Jin tries to do good, fans hate him for wanting to kill Kaz and not accepting the devil gene (lolwhut) Jin does bad like in Tek6, suddenly he's the worst character who's irredeemable but the other bad guys are totally redeemable (or not even bad at al!)

[unlimitedhorsepower]

I made a joke once that makes Ryan seem a little homophobic if u don't consider him automatically LGBT all at once and someone left some tags on that post pointing it out and agreeing and I've been tormented by that ever since.

Tormented by thinking people think Ryan is specifically homophobic or misogynist. Even if you consider him a 100% cishet metrosexual he's cringe and fail at worst!!

Ever since he was created his personality trait has explicitly been "treats everyone equally". He's just insufferable and annoying, not bigoted I swear!!!! That goes against his character bc the point is imo that he seems like the worst guy ever like if you met him you would be like wow look at this megamisogynist rolling in but then you realize that he's not specifically misogynist he just makes you wanna rip ur hair out in general.

He doesn't bother women. He bothers everyone. His worst canon moment is when he gave his number to a waitress and a personal trainer like pls these women are doing their jobs... Albeit other texted him the same evening and Ryan's other skill is insight so one would hope he's not being a problem

On the other hand he equally bothered Yuri at work in the manga by being like hi here's my gift and literally shows up at Barnaby'a door in that one audio drama even tho Barnaby told him he's busy

To me Ryan is the person who didn't think too hard about anything in his life and in fact actively avoids it so he isn't totally sure gay people are real but he's more concerned whether the gays are attracted to him or not bc they better be.

Ryan slept with a girl with a dick and brought this up to Nathan who was about to euthanize him but he was just confused how come she was wearing a dress without a bulge. Like where was the dick before that. He's so distraught like do women have secret magical powers. Sometimes he would like to seem like his cock is less fat too, so how come... Explain that Nathan. Where do the balls go

Tormented by Ryan and Nathan not hanging out more. They love fashion and vehicles and muscles etc. Nathan needs to take Ryan to a gay bar so bad so that one tweet can come true, the one that goes "white boy shocks bartender by ordering in fluent LGBT". See my vision???? TNB hates women and gay ppl too much OK but in a better world .

[sexybabystevie]

Just saw your post about b/ler and their stans hating on everyone and I have to agree.

Like, I don't mind discussing little theories, but the way they go about things it's super annoying. Like the whole blue meets yellow in the west shit like that was a thing for scoops. idk why you make it about b/ler. Or saying Mike dressed up in yellow at the airport for Will when El's favorite color is also yellow. When they complain about other characters having screentime, I have to laugh because they manage to make anything about that ship anyway, so it shouldn't matter so much in the end. They act like this ship is the foundation of the show when Will is barely a real character because he doesn't even have a personality other than the gay kid who disappeared. And the fandom hardly develops his character because his relationship with Mike is the only thing they talk about. (And before ppl complain, other characters are underdeveloped as well, but I don't put them on a pedestal and call them the main character of the show like they do with Will)

Their treatment of El in all of this is the most upsetting part. Similar to Steve, she isn't allowed to be hurt or upset if others do something (aka r/nance, b/ler). Like they should all be super supportive allys, and if they are upset, they are deemed as homophobic or terrible friends.

I think the saddest part what i've read about b/ler was people insisting that Mike never loved El and had always feelings for Will, which is so cruel? In general, making m/leven important to Mike is not a thing in the b/ler fandom because they don't want Mike to be bi, which idk what the problem is with that. I just think they are scared that Mike is still interested in girls is threatening their ship or whatever.

Anyway, what I also hate when discussing b/ler is that they simply make El a lesbian in order so she doesn't feel bad instead of letting her deal with complicated feelings. Like in s4, Mike's inability to say he loves her clearly upsets El, meaning she does have feelings for Mike that are beyond a friendship level. It's also weird that they take away El's agency and reduce her to this abused child who doesn't know about anything so she shouldn't be in a relationship because she can't know what love is. (Ignoring s2 and her learning throughout the tv about the world and feelings and making her own decision regarding that part.) If we go that route non of the kids should know about love bc they are all traumatised and fucking 14 lol. And then they break up lumax so Max and El are together and everyone is happy? (Forgetting about Lucas) Also, idk crossdating within a friend group is so messy, but people just take the complicated parts out.

Also, what I found not discussed enough is the Will and El relationship. Like yes, Will likes Mike, but El is his sister. He also loves her. And tbh I think he would have reservations about dating his sisters ex-boyfriend because he cares about her. Maybe El gives them their blessing, but Will would know that she's hurting, so he might not follow through because he values the sibling bond with El more.

In general, I hate when there are ships that have to be so clean and liked by every character that is around. They don't exist in a vaccum, other people esp those who have close relationships with the people in those ships (ex-partners, best friends, siblings etc) might have negative reactions to it which is fine. That doesn’t mean they are homophobic it means they feel betrayed by a friend or sibling who dates their ex they loved for a very long time.

I like the theory of b/ler, but people take out the complexities that come with the ship. And then when you point them out, you're the worst person on earth, and your fave deserves to die. (esp Steve)

(Sorry, this is long. You don't have to answer. I just needed to vent a bit)

oh my gosh, no worries at all about this being on the longer side of asks! i don't mind at all and actually really like talking about this stuff and you brought up so many good points! since this is longer, though, i'm gonna put my thoughts under the cut <3

firstly, the theories CAN be fun. emphasis on can because they aren't anymore. b/lers make it clear that you pretty much have to agree with every single point they make, treating every single detail as canon rather than a theory, and it's exhausting. some of the ones i read a while back were genuinely interesting and fun! but when you take away the actual idea of it being a theory and just insist upon it being the truth, then going as far to call other people who don't agree/who are skeptical stupid or homophobic or some other name they come up with, then it makes people not want to interact with you.

i'm gonna be really honest here and say that i think all this stuff about blue and yellow is really ridiculous. i mean, they're quite literally colors. not saying there's no literary meaning to colors, but implying that every time we see blue and yellow in the show is some secret b/ler symbolism is just... so bizarre. (again, this could have been a fun little thing, but they take everything SO seriously and are such negative people that any amount of enjoyment is immediately stripped away just because you can't even have a civil disagreement with them without getting accused of being homophobic or without getting loads of anon hate.)

you said "When they complain about other characters having screentime, I have to laugh because they manage to make anything about that ship anyway, so it shouldn't matter so much in the end." and THANK YOU for wording that so well. this is what i've been trying to say for a while now, but i couldn't word it correctly. b/lers go out and make every single hint of foreshadowing, every single character and their personalities or arcs all about mike and will (because they for some reason are convinced this show is just a massive great love story for the two of them, and to that i have to say that this show has an ensemble cast. the other characters will and SHOULD have their own personalities, arcs, etc, that do NOT tie into b/ler) so why should it be a problem that a character is gaining popularity? if everything really is about b/ler like they claim then it should be no big deal to assume that this completely unrelated character exists entirely for the sake of your ship, right? it's honestly ridiculous.

also, yeah, will is barely even a character. he barely has any screentime that's spent creating his character, despite the fact that i think he's an essential point to the show. he's more of a plotline than a person, and i think blaming anyone other than the duffers for that makes no sense. fictional characters don't write themselves??

as for treatment of el, i made a post forever ago the parallels between steve and el as characters, and i think that goes for here too. they're both essential characters at this point, they're heroes, but even still b/lers treat both of them terribly. with el, it's pushing her to the side, dehumanizing her in a very ableist way, etc, and with steve, its much the same. dehumanizing, pushing him to the side, not allowing either of these characters to have feelings about their best friends/close friends dating their exes, and its just not realistic and its also weird. to enjoy a ship is one thing, but to push it onto everyone else and actively hate on other people who don't like it (which, by the way, you literally do not have to have "valid reason" to dislike a ship. you can just not like/hate it and that should be fine!!!) is immature and exhausting.

interestingly enough, i think b/lers mainly view el and steve the same way - an "overrrated" character, probably some part of why they hate the "general audience"/"fanservice", and, interestingly, i think there's also this idea that they're both basic in some way. like, steve is the "basic" straight white guy (idk why there's anything wrong with that??) and el is either a misinformed, confused lesbian or a pathetic straight girl too and its... so exhausting as well because characters can be queer without having to be mike and will!!! (and in the view of el they can also be queer without breaking up other important ships just for the sake of b/ler??) the amount of times i see people say that people are homophobic for having steve or el as their favorites is just... why? like, going on some kind of homophobia-yelling witch hunt isn't going to make anyone like you or your ship that you're so heavily promoting.

and with mike, i've seen some people (the more tolerable ones, i think) say he's bi while others insist he has no attraction to girls whatsoever, and i don't know, i think people read into it too much just to go and discredit el's relationship with him. if they can go and say, "oh, their relationship wasn't important to mike OR el so now we win!!" then they can convince themselves that b/ler is endgame, everything is happy for them, there are no problems, etc, which, again, is unrealistic. breakups are messy even if both parties were not to feel romantically about the other, and especially when you're gonna go and date someone in your group again. like, i've personally seen situations like that entirely destroy friend groups, time and time again, but let's ignore that for the sake of b/ler!

(also side point that goes along with what you're saying - they're literally 14!! i think so many people forget that since the actors look older or whatever, but like... they're children.)

the will and el relationship is always ignored and never talked about because it doesn't fit in the b/ler agenda (unless they assume that el is a lesbian and therefore doesn't care about will going on to date mike). which honestly is a shame because i love their dynamic but i also would rather not hear thoughts about that from b/lers anyway, but regardless it's a major plothole in their plans that they all just totally ignore because the only solutions to it are severely out of character.

i honestly don't think there's anything wrong with shipping m/leven or b/ler, if you're not insane about it. the b/lers heavily despise people who ship mike and eleven and go on to call them homophobic (are we sensing a trend here?) or whatever else, and i honestly haven't seen enough m/leven shippers here to know what they're doing so i won't put words into their mouth or whatever. either way, there's this general distaste and shunning that happens of anyone who doesn't like b/ler or ships something else and i'm personally so tired of it. i don't ship either of these because i just don't care that much (and also these people ruined it for me) but shipping m/leven does not make you inherently homophobic, and shipping b/ler does not automatically make you annoying in the way that most of them are.

now that i've kinda covered your thoughts, i want to add a few more points of my own that i think of every time this situation arises.

one, i think a large chunk of the toxicity of the b/ler community comes down to the fact that they worship the ground the duffers walk on. and this is a general thing that a lot of people and some of the media do, where they dramatize how good the show is and hype it up to be some untouchable, perfect series, which is far from the truth. they're convinced the duffers are on their side (b/ler endgame) and thus can do no wrong. (also a very weird way to act when they go and hate every other character CREATED by the duffers - but oh no! they didn't do it because they wanted to or because they like other characters too, it's all because of the general audience and how they just fuck everything up!!).

which, this is just setting them all up for failure. no one is getting this perfect dream of an ending, and i think if anyone knows this, it's the steve fans. we are painfully aware of the fact that our fave will either die or will have some shitty ending that none of us want, and b/lers are on the other side of the spectrum where they think everything will end perfectly for them, and you're just setting yourself up for colossal disappointment. every little hidden clue or theory that you've come up with is not going to be true, every bit of "foreshadowing" isn't going to pan out, and that's just a fact. the duffers simply are not as good as these people want to think lol.

secondly, i think the treatment of el and steve is also very similar in the viewing of their love triangles. there's st/ncy vs j/ncy and m/leven vs b/ler, and in both of these situations, everything is always one person's fault when people don't get their way - el and steve. if j/ncy happens and steve's fine with it, then people have to talk about how shitty of a boyfriend he supposedly was. if j/ncy happens and steve's upset, then it's on him for, again, being shitty and "deserving" to be alone. if st/ncy happens then it's steve's fault for having feelings or being a popular character or some other bullshit that makes no sense. and in the case of el, will and mike, it's the same. b/ler happens and el's upset, it's her fault for caring about her boyfriend. b/ler happens and el isn't upset, it's her fault for NOT caring. m/leven happens, then el is primarily the problem because SHE loves mike and cares about mike and "only gets all these things because she is a popular character."

overall, it's just pointing fingers, making excuses, and acting like babies 24/7 until they cry enough to get their way, honestly.