#atheist: god isn't real and you can't touch me

[mariyekos]

Final Fantasy Tactics

Guy who hates magic so much, I mean absolutely fucking detests it with all his heart, that it just has no effect when used on him

[prove-it-or-lose-it]

I want to thank @for-the-writing-artist for being willing to have the discussion we did, but I think they're right that we've pretty much reached a point where we've covered all we'll be able to. In their last post on the matter, they indicated that they're not particularly interested in providing reasons to believe what they believe and I'm unable to adopt any belief without sufficient reason.

I still don't have any good reason to believe that lying is necessarily wrong, or that what the Bible says about god or Jesus is true, or that the Bible ever makes an outright statement that slavery is immoral, or that any interpretation of what the Bible says about anything else is more convincing than any other conflicting interpretation, or that any ancient understanding of morality should be preferred over our modern understanding, and it all boils down to evidence.

We're too far apart on these points and a few others to really continue without retreading the same topics over and over, but it seemed like they wanted some response to their last few points (forgive me if I'm wrong, it's not my intention to push on a topic you're finished discussing), so I'll give some brief notes. (Looking over the post before publishing, I should reconsider my use of the word "brief" lol)

> I get that the burden of proof lies on me, and I would be genuinely interested in your reasons for why God isn't real. But a discussion can only go so far in unequal footing.

It's absolutely correct that the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim, and that's why I avoid claiming that gods aren't real. My position is that I'm unconvinced by any claim I've ever heard that a god or some gods exist, so I really don't need any other reason to reject them. There may be a god or some gods but I lack any good evidence to support the idea that they exist. I will admit that I have a strong bias against these claims - along with claims about angels, demons, ghosts, goblins, spirits, souls, cryptids, alien abductions, a flat earth, etc. - but that's because the reality itself is biased against these claims, yielding no definitive evidence that any of these things are possible or extant. But I still have these conversations because I want to believe true things, and if someone knows some demonstrable truth that I'm not aware of, I'd like to know about it in order to form a more accurate view of reality.

> And, if by some miracle, it is proven without a shadow of doubt that God is real, and all your answers and reasons for disbelief disproved ─ would you acquiesce? Would you believe then?

I've touched on this recently, but maybe it was with one of the other folks who joined this conversation. Briefly, my skepticism requires that I adapt my worldview to new information when it comes to my awareness. So if a god is demonstrated to exist, then I've no reason to still be atheist, but whether I actually worship or respect that deity depends entirely on whether certain claims about its past actions and moral standards are true as well. In the case of Yahweh, I'd need to know for certain that a lot of things in the Bible are complete lies conceived by ancient manipulative leaders before I ever said "god is good."

> Something is. Something exists that is higher than me, or you. It could be this Krishna, it could be God. But I cannot argue in favor of this, if you believe that Nothing exists (really weird, as nothing is the absence of something). I would need to disprove this Nothing to then argue in favor of Something.

Assuming we're not brains in jars dreaming up all of reality, lots of things exist. We presuppose reality, but can't demonstrate our existence and that's an ancient and ongoing problem, so in order to function we have to take this axiom or be paralyzed by doubt. Depending on what you mean by "something higher" I might agree or disagree, but if you mean that it's necessarily something like a god I certainly don't think so. I can almost see what you're saying regarding something/nothing, but I'm not aware of any possibility that "nothing" has ever or could ever exist. Nothing, by existing, would necessarily become something. I only make this note because you began that point by saying "if you believe..." and I just want to make it clear that I don't believe in "nothing," but I reject claims of undetectable "somethings" where we lack any good indication that they should be there.

All in all, it was a good conversation and I appreciate the time and energy it took to give thoughtful responses to what I was saying. And I hope it goes without saying that although I think you're convinced of some bad ideas, I don't have any such evaluation of your character as a human. I hope you keep asking questions and being open to ideas you might disagree with.

[purpleoceanrock]

“We sometimes encounter people, even perfect strangers, who begin to interest us at first sight, somehow suddenly, all at once, before a word has been spoken.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

“I am a dreamer. I know so little of real life that I just can't help re-living such moments as these in my dreams, for such moments are something I have very rarely experienced. I am going to dream about you the whole night, the whole week, the whole year. I feel I know you so well that I couldn't have known you better if we'd been friends for twenty years. You won't fail me, will you? Only two minutes, and you've made me happy forever. Yes, happy. Who knows, perhaps you've reconciled me with myself, resolved all my doubts."

-Fyodor Dostoyevsky, White Nights

“For, after all, you do grow up, you do outgrow your ideals, which turn to dust and ashes, which are shattered into fragments; and if you have no other life, you just have to build one up out of these fragments. And all the time your soul is craving and longing for something else. And in vain does the dreamer rummage about in his old dreams, raking them over as though they were a heap of cinders, looking in these cinders for some spark, however tiny, to fan it into a flame so as to warm his chilled blood by it and revive in it all that he held so dear before, all that touched his heart, that made his blood course through his veins, that drew tears from his eyes, and that so splendidly deceived him!” ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, White Nights and Other Stories

“Existentialism isn't so atheistic that it wears itself out showing that God doesn't exist. Rather, it declares that even if God did exist, that would change nothing.” ― Fyodor Dostoevsky

“Forgive me... for my love - for ruining you with my love.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

[astaryuu]

Wow. No real argument, eh? Not even a "look at the trees?" No "God exists because the world is so beautiful and orderly that He must exist?" Do these people have any whimsy whatsoever?

Like, okay. I'm a theist - as in, I believe in a creator. (I don't practice any religion per se, but I'm not atheist because I don't disbelieve in a creator) I believe that 14 billion years ago, some force or entity wrote the laws of the universe, and then set the clock ticking and watched (and is watching) those laws play out. Like a cosmic Conway's Game of Life.

I also believe God is made up. Or more specifically - I believe that no human could ever truly understand the universe's creator, but that their attempts to do so, while still made up, can serve as a lens to that creator. That is, I see that you can poke holes in every deity - Odin, Amaterasu, Shiva, or gods forbid the Christian God - and call that evidence that they're, to some degree, fictional.

Think about it like this: set a bunch of stationary cameras around a huge object, we'll call that object "the creator of the Universe". Then, have each one give the image they take of the creator to one person. Each is gonna take an incomplete picture of the thing they are imaging, so in order to use that image to present a complete God or gods, which any religious text will want to do, the writers have to fill in the rest of the figure that the camera couldn't catch - which is, in fact, making up God. This is also (partially) why there are so many interpretations - not only will different writers complete the same partial figure differently (see the various Abrahamic religions), there are also so many vantage points with which you get a slightly different picture, and even the same person may complete those two vantage points differently, let alone different people with different experiences.

Hell, along this lens, if I'm allowed to have my way, I'll make up my own damn religion with blackjack and hookers /j and say I practice that, because fuck you. Yeah, fuck it. I'll unironically, in real life, practice (a version of) Yukachan, one of the religions we've worldbuilt for this story project we're working on, because all religious belief is, to some degree, made up anyway, so you can't tell me I'm "literally worshipping my own godsdamned OCs". Or, well, you could, as I would be, but you'd be silly for meaning that as an insult.

I think the problem here that Ralph is touching on is that some people (many, I'd bet) hear "made up" as "entirely fictitious." It's why Norse beliefs are allowed to be called simply "mythology", while Christian mythology can't be called that because that's "saying God isn't real" or something. Like, if you believe the people saying this, apparenrly nephilim actually existed at some point in the past, but jötnar (functionally identical to nephilim) are definitely 100% fake. Basically, some theists need to get thicker skin, or they're gonna keep failing people like Ralph because they're unwilling to accept that saying "humans aren't perfect and God is perfect" and "this book written by humans perfectly represents God" is contradictory, while still placing belief in the contradiction as a requirement for something to be called "religion". If the creator is perfect and humans aren't, then how can humans ever expect to have a (complete) understanding of them?

i think i said this one before but i remember we used to go to church and one day on the way i just out of the blue asked the car "how do we know god is real? what if people just made him up" and the adults all got super mad at me and gave me generic answers like "we just know" and stuff and my ass was fucking CURIOUS so when church started i asked the Sunday School teacher and she was like "well the bible was written about him" or something like that and i was like "but someone wrote Curious George and hes not real, what if someone made him up too" and she was like irritated but was like "he's a talking monkey of course hes not real, children just like fun stories" or something like that and i don't remember exactly what i said but it was something very close to "but adults like stories too! how do you know he's not made up so because adults want to believe in something too?" and she got SUPER mad and i had to apologize in front of the church but i saw an opportunity so i was like "but no one answered me so i still dont know and i guess you guys don't either" and [everyone] got super mad and none of us could go to that church anymore

the adults were okay to go to church again but me and my siblings had sundays off from that point on and that was kind of a catalyst for the way my brother and sister perceived religion

[hybrid-model]

Trying to approach religion or belief just 'casually'?

Well, there's so many reasons why most of the people I meet online are atheists. Like why believe in something which is 'imaginary' ...or someone who doesn't help you in your calamities? So, just at the very first sign of anything holy, like a verse from good books, or like divine speech trying to approach you, there's only a millisecond for 90% of the youth here which just scoff it off; like if I just say something really simple as, 'God bless you' ...I literally, even though I don't see people on the other side of screen, feel them rolling eyes at me.

'Preach!' ... 'good imagination!' 'hear hear! 👏🏽'

Yet, if you really are a 'hardcore' atheist and see something which is too violent to digest or too horrifying to look at, even if your mouth isn't uttering these words, it surely is racing on your mind 'No, please no, God...' What do you think the general public was thinking when the towers came down that day earlier in September? All politics aside, what would you feel if a nuke suddenly falls and razes your entire city, like apocalyptically? Believe me, I have analyzed much about battlefields and horrors of war that make people think only of divine help when they become 'Ant walking Alligators'..

Wut's that? Well it was the first time a so-called creature that existed for a very short duration when humanity experienced the most powerful ever potential of weapons man ever made. The nuke on Hiroshima... some vapourised within seconds, some died of shock, traumatic/fatal injuries...

But the ones much not talked about are these people, like ghouls from fiction come to life. Their entire body completely charred black, burnt and almost destroyed but alive. Their face a blank empty space with no more than just their mouths which couldn't scream of pain but actually making a cry for help nobody could understand, a deep gurgling or suppressed voice of agony they want to communicate with their rescuers, they couldn't speak, nor cry, nor be approached... shunned from everyone until they died all alone...

Now this... is not the stuff from Terminator or any other hit flicks. This is something which happened for real, in front of real people who experienced all of this and actually lived to tell the tale, fortunately.

So backing up to our earlier point is what exactly are the emotions of a typical average Joe living casually, when suddenly calamities like this strike? Like all of a sudden, no one thought a safe haven like the New York could have ever been touched with any calamity like those on silver screens...

When things like this happen believe me, I half experienced this as a kid... There were military or airforce drills happening all so suddenly on one fine morning in Riyadh, like the sky was echoing and it felt like nothing but real start of battles... It was just a drill or something because they were prepping for any possible spillover from the neighbouring Iraqi war back in 2003, but nothing much actually happened between the two... I was just a kid and like living a happy carefree life, didn't even finish kindergarten. Just mildly taught about a typical belief/faith a child should have... But what happened at that moment, when the airforce was so active that day, was I can't think of anything else than divine intervention, like I don't even know the 2nd basics of my beliefs...

So this proves that it is all that natural to shove aside religion as a 'medieval' set of obsolete imaginary beliefs, until it starts happening with you. And when you start seeing the truth, it is like you have very little time to make up with God, or maybe no time at all... Even though the Pharaoh was yelling 'I believe! I believe!' When he knew it was his time to die before drowning after unsuccessfully pursuing Moses (Mūsā) a.s. ...

It didn't really help him, because the stopwatch stopped, his breathing stopped, and his chapter closed with no going back. Too late!

Let's add a bit of finesse here just for its sake;

I mean, I also have talked with the same way as I did this way with others... This is like the missing link between religion and science.

This is the Time Dilation effect. If you ever watched the movie Interstellar, you start understanding that our physics don't work the same way when we reach other parts of universe or dimensions. A scene, which is very meaningful in the film, is that when an Astronaut lands on a far off planet's moon, Europa, he spends only a few hours there, but back here at home on Earth, several years have passed!

So when we actually feel what we say when 'Time has flied off so quick since we were kids' ...it is actually our soul making us realize that there is a part of us in a higher dimension making us realize that time is very short... And so, when every human is brought back to life on the day of judgement, they just keep thinking that, I only was alive no more than 2 days, even if they lived to be 80 years as we now feel...

Now I know, there's many different ways to understand religions, what they consist of and what are their practices. The problem we people face these days is the advent of globalization and technology. You just Google something or watch a YouTube video to grasp all you want about any religion. Just ask this to yourself, do you understand everything or get to know your new friend at the first outing? Nope; it takes a week, a month and it becomes best when you get to know him/her better if you spend a good year together.

The problem we have with these so called preachers online is that they have like a bullet points list which they keep striking off one after another as it is explained or dealt with. As with the older times; monks, scribes and librarians and other educated people spent years to fully grasp what a religion has to say to them, they met real people, they asked about them, lived along with them to learn about their habits and way of life... and analyzed with their beliefs to see what could be the actual truth. Then they used their own conscience and reasoning to make up their mind.

Fast forward to 21st century, we have here as we all know it, the internet. Internet is not a bad tool, it only depends on how you use it. What the preachers exploit this on-demand service is just giving quick speeches, answers, queries and things about religion so fast as if you take this knowledge like how all other material scientific theories are here.

Take time in knowing the religion before you Google the answer and say- hah... That is that.

Each verse of any holy book releases energy when you read it, and tries to communicate with your mind about its information.

So if cherry-picked YouTube videos is what you prefer, so be it... I'm not saying that that's bad. I'm telling you that you need time to absorb its facts before making a quick decision by yourself. And don't ever think that being religious is something ridiculous. You have been told to believe that just because of these modern classy and 'rational' people tell you so. Don't be afraid to stand different from the crowd if you really know you're holding on to the truth, you'll be shamed, shunned, mocked and humiliated... But that only lasts for 2 days, if you know what I mean. Then they will take back everything they said after that, but to no use.

[naamahdarling]

Tell! Us! more! Abt! Your! Gf! ( if u dont mind that is) It makes me all warm inside🥰

Oh my god. Bear. Bear is amazing.

I know people are always like "oh my partner is so funny and smart!" and like, you gotta understand that is indubitably true because of course it is. And she's also just cute as heck. But let me explain to you that she is kind. Kind like stealing a sick and starving kitten off someone's porch, kind like always having money for the guys on the highway off-ramps, kind like I come out of the studio and find her crying because a horse dies on her 911 People Are Dying show, kind like treating every human being with whom she interacts with kindness and respect and compassion, kind like I didn't know could all be in the same person. I'm not describing it very well. It's profound.

I was raised in a dysfunctional family and then went straight to a difficult relationship, and while none of those people ever meant me ill, and all loved me dearly, I still had never been on the receiving end of kindness in this way.

I honestly spent the first 4 years of my relationship with her taking it in. Like something so big you can't really understand it. Like looking at the night from a dark sky site when you don't know the names of the stars, and think maybe even if you did know some you couldn't find them because there are so many. So you just stare at the sky and feel its presence and you're like "Wow, that's real, and I am somehow real, and looking at it, and I don't understand it but I know I love it and I never want to look away."

So you just lie there eating Twizzlers and hoping the park patrol doesn't come throw you out because curfew was like 3 hours ago and wondering idly if you'll have chigger bites in the morning but not caring enough to see if your socks are pulled up. You just lie there and take it in.

And after a while of going out there and dodging park rangers you learn some stars, you get a grip on the shape of it. Maybe you learn about the Orion nebula where stars are born, or about how Vega used to be the polestar, not Polaris. But you never stop being amazed by it.

She is like that. Not just her kindness but her whole constellation.

I love the shit out of her, it is absolutely wild. Didn't know I could feel this way. And man, how I used to hate romance.

I don't know if I care for it still, actually, but I love it with her, because she loves it. So I say romantic things and I do romantic things and it feels RIGHT and I treat her like an equal and a friend but also like the most precious gift in the world, like something you cannot believe someone trusted you with, because that's what she is.

I am an atheist. An a-the-ist. And she has come [this close] to changing my mind because touching her feels like Grace. But I know that the universe made her out of the same stardust as me, like super-randomly, and the miracle that we should meet is bigger than anything I read about in the Bible, so I don't know if God really enters into it. Like, there have been sooo many sacred kings, but she's the only one of her. Ever. Isn't that absolutely crazy? Isn't that the most unlikely thing you have EVER heard?

I'm not fucking around, I love her to death. I love her so much that if someone harassed us on the street for being just incandescently queer, I would just walk away from that juicy fight because she hates conflict and would probably be upset and maybe scared and I wouldn't want to leave her alone. I think about it a lot, I picture it. We get in our sensible Honda and drive away and get Dairy Queen. She didn't tame me or anything. I evolved like a fucking Pokemon, and the world be willing, someday I will evolve into someone as good as she is.

I cannot emphasize enough: I didn't think I would ever get to have this. I have multiple mental health diagnoses and am disabled. I will never have a job or work. I'm a divorcee. I'm queer. I'm fat and have bad skin. I don't cook. I make fucking awful jokes all the time. I didn't expect to find anyone, let alone...like...HER. I had no hope. But I got it. Because love is real, and by god it may take its time coming but when it does it's fundamentally life altering and almost incomprehensibly beautiful.

I could seriously talk about it for hours. I WILL if you ask me or let me. I am quiet about it mostly (barring the last few days) but it's a significant part of my life, and with all of this shit going on, it's kind of highlighted how much I NEED to be with her forever.

[lokewolf-father]

So I Listened to the First Five Insane Clown Posse Albums...

And I really enjoyed myself! I tried this post already, but the Tumblr app is a piece of garbage and lost it somehow, so here goes again. To make a long story short, even though I didn't really enjoy the first two albums, Carnival of Carnage and The Ringmaster, I found a lot to enjoy about Insane Clown Posse, and can safely say I like them. Death metal guitar mixed with heavy bass, carnival sounds, and lyrics about necromantic clown sorcerers, killer toys, and cartoonish depictions of murder make their concept albums something that is both novel and undeniably cool when it isn't too crude or juvenile, which is more frequent than I would like.

I should probably state, especially considering I'm writing off the first two albums, that I am not the target audience for ICP. I do not consider myself a Juggalo in any definition of the word; I don't really listen to rap, and couldn't define hip-hop without looking it up. I do however enjoy horror movies and low-brow entertainment like comic books, and consider Marilyn Manson to be one of my personal heroes, so believe me when I say that I really do like aspects of the cavalcade of crazy that is the Insane Clown Posse.

Riddle Box is awesome, and I find myself wondering if this is the album where people feel like ICP came into their own. Part of their mythology is that if the Dark Carnival, where sinners are judged by a cavalcade of characters before being killed and sent to their souls ultimate destination. Several albums are designated as Joker's Cards, and depict characters and elements of the Carnival.

The intro is awesome, introducing the Riddle Box, which is a magic box that either gives the slain a vision of God, warming their souls and sending them to Heaven, or a demonic fog that drives them insane and sends them to Hell.

One of my favorite songs, "Chicken Huntin' (Slaughter House Mix)" is on this song, and demonstrates ICP's understanding of their audience. A song about killing dumb, ignorant hillbillies, I have to assume it's cathartic to people who left behind wacky rural families behind when they left home. "Toy Box" is about a guy with murderous toys that turn on him, and makes me laugh. It sounds hokey, and that's because it is, hokey and worth a listen. A lot of this is appealing to me because I don't listen to rap music, partly because I don't care for the subject matter.

I like rappers like Kanye West and Eminem because I can't identify with or enjoy a lot of the gangsta-macho stuff that mainstream rap can't seem to get away from. With ICP, their personas are over the top killer clowns, and that's awesome! Because they're so goofy and have been pretty much rejected from pop culture, their music appeals to social outcasts and others who are down on their luck, something that Shaggy 2 Dope and Violent J recognize.

That being said, before I move into the next album, I should probably mention "Ol' Evil Eye", ICP's own adaptation of Poe's "The Tell-tale Heart". Good shit, even if it makes the master turn over in his grave.

The Great Milenko is fantastic, and is a Joker's Card about an evil necromancer clown that tempts you into damning yourself. I'm told this is more of a hip-hop album, but as someone who isn't that familiar with this kind of music, I can't tell the difference. What I will say is there are more songs here that I like than on the previous three albums. The intro, which is read by none other than Alice Cooper, is excellent, as is the title track and "Hokus Pokus", both of which are sufficiently creepy and dark.

"Piggy Pie" is a song about murdering dickhead cops that uses a very, um, clever three little pigs motif. As a funny aside, this album was initially put out by Hollywood Records, and had to be approved by Disney, who forced them to change this song. The album was pulled from shelves anyway, making the whole exercise of censorship pointless anyway. It's just funny to think that Disney read associated with ICP at one point.

"Southwest Voodoo" is another effective song, featuring a black magic chant for chorus, which is to say nothing of "Halls of Illusion", which has Slash on guitar!

One of my other favorites off this album is the existential "How Many Times", which puts you in the mindset of the type of person ICP is talking to. Broke, down on your luck, arrested, your stereo stolen, it's hard to imagine things can ever really get better; in a world that rejects you and shows your no respect, why not remake yourself as a psychotic clown? As Manson says, "They'll never be good to you/bad to you/they'll never be anything at all". Any aging goth kid can understand where ICP is coming from here.

The Amazing Jeckel Brothers is the first album I listened to, and probably my favorite one. "Terrible" and "Bring it On" have the heavy sound that I love, and "Assassins" is just an awesome, badass song in general. If hip-hop is just another word for tough guy music, these songs definitely fit the bill. The bass lines make the songs positively rock in a way I didn't think was possible for ICP. "Everybody Rize" is a cool Juggalo anthem, as is "Fuck the World", calling out a culture and industry that rejects and hates them like a boss. If you're on the fence about these fuckers, this is another great album to start with, especially considering the touching final song, "Nothing's Left", which reflects on the broken nature of the world, and wonders if there can be any real salvation for anyone. Considering ICP are Christian and ultimately incorporated they're religion into their music, I know what their opinion on this is, but just begging the question gives the song a universal appeal that even an angry atheist like myself can identify with.

At the end of the day, I have to figure that getting to know the Insane Clown Posse was rewarding for me. I'm not a Juggalo, but I understand their world a lot better and get how they can be kind to others and have something special with their subculture. I plan to listen to more ICP and write about them, but I'd like to write about Juggalo culture first. If you're a Juggalo or have any thoughts, I want to hear from you! Have you met the Insane Clown Posse or been to their shows? Have you been to the gathering of the Juggalos? An I wrong about anything I wrote above?

[sagebodisattva]

Existential Nihilism

So when we talk about existential nihilism, we are addressing a fundamental core principle that underlies all of the seemingly different schools of nihilism. To me, honestly, despite the treatment I've given to these categories, I find it sort of silly and absurd that nihilism has been broken up and classified in a fragmented manner as such; as if the deconstruction of the various different inventory items of existence deserve their own distinctions. To me, this is the result of the work of non-nihilists; as, the true nihilist wouldn't have any such purpose for constructing these differentiations; the motivation, of such, being contrary to the very cause of nihilism in the first place.

The nihilist's mission is to uncover the truth of existence, and does so by means of stripping away all that is part of the facade, in order to reveal that which is rudimentary essence, aka the truth, or, the reality, and not illusion. We can draw the line of the true and the untrue at the event horizon of awareness. We are that, which precedes the event horizon of awareness. Beyond this horizon, is all collapsed wave function. It's hard to even begin to be able to realize and understand this line, because the attention is trained to not recognize it; to gloss over it with default oversight, the crux of the conditioning, and to remain stuck on the perceptibles.

And incidentally, this is the same kind of conditional lock that prevents one from realizing the nature of a dream whilst they are dreaming, which prevents lucidity and keeps the clarity of awareness in a fog, until after one has awoken. And I know that, even with this reference, not many have a experiential understanding of dream lucidity, but, even without such clarity, at the very least we can understand that a dream is not an actual reality, but a construct of an imagination. The dream experience is therefor an existential medium, hence, the only real reality is the awareness; which is the same again and again, in countless dreams. In other words, in the dream, what was real, was not the persona, the narrative, the perceptions, the feelings, other beings, animals or creatures, or even the world; it was always, and always will be, just the awareness.

And so, why is this common every day realization about the nature of dreams so difficult to carry over into the context of the so called “waking state?”, Because the attention is getting stuck on perceivables, and as such, the truth of reality becomes un-clarified. It's very hard to refocus the attention when its committed and heavily invested in identifications and associations, aka attachments. But let's look into these binding ties that anchor the awareness in the illusion.

We identify with the world, but the world does not make us what we are, as evidenced by the fact that we could feasibly be put into another world and still be the same person. So you are not the world or any environment.

So what about our thoughts, ideas and concepts? Are we our thinking minds? You have plenty of intellectual data in stored in your brain, but does any of it make you who you are, really? Some may argue that it does, but this is more conditioning, more identification by attachment. You could drop plenty of ideas and still be you. You could change your thoughts and still be you. You could rearrange, add or remove your concepts and still be you. So you are not your thoughts, ideas and concepts.

Maybe we are the perceptual senses? Everything we can speak about is the result of either sight smell hearing taste or touch, so perhaps our identities can be defined by perception? For those who identify as such, I strongly recommend sensory deprivation tanks. After some experience with these you will soon know first hand that you are not the senses, as also further evidenced by a blind man, or a deaf person. The adding or removal of any sensory instrument does not make us any more or less ourselves.

Ok, so what about our feelings and emotions? Do these solidify some kind of identity? How so, when again, feelings and emotions come and go, change, and fluctuate constantly, none of them ever remaining constant, and yet we still remain who we are throughout them all, so we are not our feelings and emotions.

What about our families, our names our ancestral lineage and bloodlines? Does this define us? This is yet another association. We would not still be who we are even if our family was removed? Would we become something else if we changed our name? If we woke up tomorrow in some other person's life on the other side of the world, would we not still be an individual? So we are not our families or lineage.

Then, of course, comes the physical body. Surely, if anything, we must be the physical body, no? How so exactly? If we removed your foot, would you still be you? What about your hand? Or your liver? Or your left buttock? If you are still you despite the removal of various body parts or organs, then obviously you cannot be the physical body either.

Then so, finally, what about the consciousness, aka the ego, or the persona? Without a doubt, this MUST be what we are. What else is left? The consciousness could be said to be the culmination of all the identifications and associations combined, what we sum up to be a self by adding the world, our thoughts, our perceptions, our emotions, our family history, and our physical bodies together. We call being aware of this confection the consciousness, but if none of the components of this culmination are a true self, then how could the amalgamation of these components be a true self either? By assuming such, we've only just made the ego that much more difficult to untangle. But untangling the persona is crucial to self recognition. And how is this done?

Deconstruction. Subtraction. Detachment. Reduction. Emptying. Nihilism. Destroying untruths, and tearing down false foundations.

When you have disassociated and un-identified with all of the false veneers, you will have arrived at that which could be called the true self; the actual reality, that, which is always so, that, which you are. Pure potentiality. This is the superpositional substratum upon which all distinctions of self awareness are produced. This is why, from this space of clear open awareness, it can be clearly known that, value, meaning and purpose, are existential, and not otherwise. And to further clarify existentiality, this means that these features are created aspects that only have a setting within the momentary facets of being. This is the truth of reality, and yet this truth is called nihilism. Why?

Because of the apparent disapproval of control freaks and dogma defenders, that don't want you to free yourself from your mind enslavement. People are so much easier to manipulate and command when they assume, in ignorance, that value, meaning, and purpose are pre-existing factors that one must find, and then adhere to. And don't worry, you won't have to look very far to find them; for there are plenty of leaches lined up, ready to usher you into a nice little role of subservient obedience; where you will be in the perfect position to be commanded, and used for the greedy selfish purposes of power hungry resource pigs. So fear not; if you are unwilling to create your own value, meaning and purpose, one will be happily supplied to you. If you find the notion of value meaning and purpose not being objective depressing, relax, one can be penetrated into you.

But, if you are one of the few among us that doesn't have a problem with the truth of existentiality, then know that your source is potentiality, your destination is potentiality, and whatever comes in between is completely up to you. You come from nothing, are headed towards nothing, so any value, meaning or purpose that arise, are going to be a result of your own directed action, duty, dedication, and responsibility. Meanings are not derived from theoretical philosophy, but a consequence of function and interaction. When it is said that value, meaning and purpose are not intrinsic or inherent, this is only true insomuch as it applies to value, meaning and purpose residing objectively. Value meaning and purpose are, in fact, inherent and intrinsic, but only so contextually; that is to say, relatively and subjectively so.

And I know why this prospect is daunting and undesirable to most people, for the realization that life is without meaning, purpose and value to be found pre-existing, means that, of itself, life is pretty absurd, and can be outright maddening; if one is searching for such engagements externally, which will often lead to angst and utter despondency in the face of the futility and pointlessness of it all. But it is only futile and pointless because you have invested in value judgements based on misplaced assumptions and erroneous conclusions. Drop them.

What other kind of validation do your values, meanings and purposes need, beyond your own commitment to them? For an atheist, I can't see where any of this causes an issue. If there is no god, then whereof would any of these aspects be derived? The only real people that this would seem to cause a problem for, would be theists. People that are obsessively worried about god, and the possibility that they wouldn't be serving and obeying him properly by not blindly following words in a book written by men of antiquity. What else could it be? I know, I know. You wanna be good and make it into heaven. How profoundly deep of you. But understand this: if you are good because of the promise of reward. or the threat of punishment, you are not good for the right reasons. There is no sky daddy out there to give a blowjob to, so get over it. Take responsibility for your own existence.

There doesn't need to be emotional anguish over the fact that there isn't any objective force out there supplying value, meaning and purpose. This agency is found within yourself, and can become a great wellspring of inspiration towards defining your own value, purpose and meaning. But, just keep in mind that creating your own value, purpose and meaning isn't an indication that your value, purpose and meaning are necessarily justified, and this is why we do need a very simple universal moral compass, despite morality also being a construct; it doesn't automatically follow that creating value purpose and meaning that victimizes other sentience is permissible. It isn't. This is why we shouldn't look past the importance of the existential agency of the entire nihilistic foundation, and understand that, in the face of paradoxical absurdity, it is up to you to define, and make of yourself, what you will; for no amount of external searching will amount to more then quiet desperation and frustrating futility; but, despite the lack of objective supplementation, creating your own intentions within nothingness isn't a license to violate another existential agency.

If you can figure out why this is, as it is an absolute moral distinction relative to sentience, that no existential consciousness wants to be victimized against their will, then you will have a less difficult journey ahead, and will be doing your part to bring peace and harmony to our shared existential paradigm.

[kingsofeverything]

Do you get why people fight for things, right? We all know real life isn't like tumblr, we go outside, we are attacked outside, that's why we get overly protective here, because this is supposed to be a safe space, we have the opportunity to express ourselves in ways we can't in real life and the fact you don't understand that and are reblogging that kind of stuff, not only that but with those types of tags, makes me incredibly sad because I thought you were better than that

hey, so, i’m sorry if i’ve upset you, but i’ll try to explain things from my point of view. first of all, i’m not sure if you’re talking about something specific or not. 

i was just talking this morning about tumblr and how there are a lot of aspects about it that i don’t understand. and i’m going to try to hop back and forth to those tags and see if i make any sense at all. also i’m going to try to respond to what you’ve said in your message. 

the ‘i thought you were better than that’ at the end is kind of condescending. the rest of your message isn’t as bad though. 

i totally get why people fight for things. i fight for things. i’ll 100% admit that being a white woman married to a dude makes things easier. still, it doesn’t stop people from coming up in my yard and stealing the rainbow flag off of my house. it doesn’t stop people from hating me as soon as they find out i’m an atheist. it doesn’t make it easier to be out as bisexual, which i’m not, really. when i went to march in dc in january, i was scared, but i went anyway. 20 years ago being accosted at a car wash by some woman yelling at me because the bumper sticker on my car meant that i didn’t believe in god, and calming explaining my views to her? that’s real life. 

and that is what i was thinking about reblogging that post. if you’re bothered by something, DO take it outside. Do donate if you can. DO vote. DO go and protest and write letters and call politicians and volunteer and HELP PEOPLE. THAT IS PART OF WHAT THAT POST MEANS TO ME. staying on tumblr and bitching about other people’s opinions and indirecting people doesn’t DO ANYTHING. 

and maybe you’re one of the people who DOES SOMETHING but a lot of people on this website are all talk and no action. so many people on this website are here for condemning other people’s opinions while sitting on their asses and not doing anything to change things irl.

tumblr is not a safe space and i don’t see why anyone would see it that way. not when anyone you follow can reblog anything they want and it can pop up on your dash. just as an example, the number of reblogs of gifs of liam’s video when it has flashing in it? when i’ve seen more than one post asking people to tag it? and that’s just about someone having an uncontrollable physical reaction. that’s not touching on the emotional reactions people can have to things. that i’ve had to things that i’ve read or seen. 

and!!! here’s the thing. you could be messaging me about the whole kiwi thing, or about people being mad about louis’ pr and situation. you could be referring to a post i reblogged recently about the word queer, it could be ANYTHING. and that, i think, is kind of the point.

i hate indirects. i hate reading things and only seeing half of whatever bullshit is happening. i hate fucking name calling. it’s disgusting behavior. one of the first things i saw today when i opened my laptop was a post that was “joking” saying that jeff leaked liam’s video. and idek where the whole blame jeff thing started, AND I DON’T WANT TO KNOW, all i know is that it is apparently one person’s opinion that he orchestrated something. and what happened? people apparently jumped all over that person. and are still making snide, indirecting posts about it days later. it’s mean. 

while i’m sitting here typing this out, i have gotten like 4 more anons that i just peeked at and apparently this post is about kiwi. lord. okay.

what i said, word for word this morning in my group chat was this��� i copied and pasted:

i just want to say about the kiwi thing. that i can see how if someone was abused and also knew what hard candy could mean in certain situations, that they would be hurt or bothered by that. and with the dramatics of this fandom, of course they’ll take it to another level. BUT then there are some people who are using things like that as a reason to hate harry and it’s just crossing a line. BUT ALSO the reaction to that? has been over the top. the name calling is ridiculous.

and this is part of what that post was about to me. i wasn’t thinking about kiwi. i wasn’t thinking about anything specifically when i reblogged it. other than the random bullshit drama that i see every single day on this website. 

the one tag on that post that says “you can’t have an opinion without immediately being attacked for it” is literally being demonstrated in my inbox right now. and i didn’t’ even express an opinion! 

so, to elaborate on my copy/paste up there: i think that, if someone was sexually abused and knew of the term hard candy in reference to that, then of course they’d be hurt and offended! and they have every right to be. and i support their right to feel the way they want to feel. everyone has the right to feel the way they feel. explaining their thoughts, feelings, and opinions? totally cool and i appreciate that because otherwise i wouldn’t understand what they’re talking about. where i draw the line is when i see posts that start name calling or accusing other people of making excuses for the line or for harry or accusing people of not caring about abuse victims simply because the words hard candy don’t mean the same to them. 

idek where i’m going here. but what i’m saying is that when i reblogged that post i’d just seen a post that was indirecting someone for having an opinion. i’d just had a conversation in my gc about the whole tumblr thing about pushing opinions on people. i was just thinking about one of my mutuals who posted some about being hurt by kiwi and i was thinking about how i really hoped that some of the bullshit i’d seen yesterday wasn’t pointed toward them because they’re nice and sweet and they voice opinions on their own blog, but they don’t go around indirecting and name calling. 

also, i tried to avoid tumblr yesterday. first thing this morning i said the same thing. because i didn’t know what was going on and i didn’t want to spend hours reading up and researching. so whatever kiwi discussion anons are referring to to me, i wasn’t here for it.

god, this has gotten long. and i haven’t had enough coffee. so i’m going to wrap this up here and say that, if the anons in my inbox who are now

1) name calling

2) making assumptions about the thoughts i had when i reblogged a post

3) and are anonymously nasty

read this, i hope you rethink the way you react to things.