#anti Edelgard

[butwhatifidothis]

"When Edelgard says her 'Should the one leading the people of the world be someone with humanity or a creature that can merely masquerade as a human at will?' line she wasn't saying she thought Nabateans shouldn't rule over humans, only that that was what Rhea and Nemesis were fighting over."

Edelgard still literally believes that Nabateans shouldn't rule over the people. Like she says that. Extremely clearly. In multiple places, but most blatantly, explicitly, and directly during this moment.

Trying to say "She's not saying that's what she believes, she's just saying that's what happened" would be a credible argument if she didn't then go on to very plainly show off that that is, in fact, what she believes

[yunamedkostobot]

The reason i do not trust a lot of so-called «complexity lovers»

Akito Sohma stans: I love Akito because of her complexity! She is so sympathetic character!

Also Akito stans: but it would have been way better, if Takaya cut out her beating Kisa and Momiji, pushing Rin out of the window and droving Kana to clinical depression

Jiang Cheng stans: I adore Chengcheng, he is so complex!

Also Jiang Cheng stans: Of course, he was justified to demand of his adoptive brother to give up the innocent boy, elders and the persons to whom, you know, is obliged to help! Of course, he did not tarnished Wei Wuxian's reputation more by saying that he declared himself the enemy of the world! Of course, he was right to disrespect his sister's sacrifice the worst way possible! And he was right in killing innocent people during the timeskip and letting the literal maniac go!

Reva Sevander stans: Reva, my baby! 😍😍 You would be a true Jedi of Old Order!🤧🤧 And you did not forgive Anakin(who literally nearly ceased to exist as person, as RoTS novel clearly indicates)! Such a complexity!

Also Reva stans: *ignoring her joining group of fascist enforcers, for which is pretty normal to kill teenagers, who are suspected to be Jedi(as Ezra and Cal situations show), and abduct children from their parents(may be killing said parents), hunting down underground railroad-like organisations, kidnapping 10 years old Leia and attempting to kill Luke*

Severus Snape stans: Of course, he was wonderful man, and so complex! He would definitely be a good father figure to Harry!

Also Snape stans: Of course, he was not an awful teacher to his students and never bullied Neville out of pure spite and said awful things about Hermione when her teeth end up growing fast and causing her a lot of pain! And also, he was forced to join Neo-nazi group at school, pull a hurtful pranks over Muggleborn and call the love of his life a racial slur!

Edelgard von Hresvelg stans: Such a complex character! A true embodiment of Progress! Go, Empress! Edeleth canon!

Also Edelstans: So, we are gonna project Dimitri's good traits on her, make Claude a villain(with the huge OOC) to make her look good, tell ten thousands of lies about Rhea and Nabateans(including genocide apologia) and of course, ingore all of her war crimes and imperialism(with her erasing the culture of far more progressive Leicester and Faerghus)!

Me: So... Are you truly here for complexity?

[emblemoftheattorney]

Edelstans: “Edelgard detractors completely miss the nuances and morally grayness of her character! Fandoms can’t handle complex characters!”

Me: Oh I agree…

Same Edelstans: *Remove all the nuances and moral grayness from Rhea and make posts about how she shouldn’t have been an ally on any routes or even that there should’ve been a golden ending where all houses team up to defeat her* Me: You know what, forget it, I can’t sympathize with you anymore

[emblemxeno]

Far too many people in the Fire Emblem community think well written Gray Morality is "How many terrible atrocities was this character responsible for and/or complicit in vs. how nice they sound when they speak/how good their ideals are."

I've seen characters with traits of imperialists, colonialists, nationalists, and racist terrorists ALL be excused by people who can't handle their favorites being RIGHTFULLY and ACCURATELY derided for the awful things they do in canon. Part of this is the fault of the series' writing being historically bound and limited by scenarios where awful characters readily forgiven by the protagonists or justified by the script is commonplace, but ever since 3H released with its shallow "oh but don't you see??? everyone has their own perspective and ideals, so no one's truly wrong!!!" thematic foundation, fans have felt emboldened to prop up and excuse characters for their wrongdoings because they felt "sad and lonely" or were vaguely pushing for change whilst committing crimes.

Relatedly, I never liked how easily the Fire Emblem fandom took to using the concept of war crimes in such a brazen and ignorant manner half a decade ago for their discourse. From now on I might just start outright blocking people who do it, because it's clear not only do the people who do this shit don't have any idea what they're fucking talking about, but they toss around words and concepts currently being tested by the REAL WORLD at large as we are still bearing witness to multiple oppressed peoples accross the globe being subjected to indiscriminate murder, assault, and persecution. I find that utterly vile.

TL;DR: "Why is there so much discourse in FE, they're ALL war criminals? 🤪🤪🤪" How about you shut your yap and never use serious topics for your internet discourse again, moron?

[dmasterxd]

What Edelgard says to Byleth after Jeralt’s death really shouldn’t be defended as often as it is. Because for one, no it’s not genuine and “consoling them in her own way.” All she’s doing is telling them to get over it. And making it about her and her goals. “All I can do is reach out my hand for you when the time comes for me to move forward.”

Like the mental gymnastics you would have to go through to describe all the things she said as actually being kind and genuine is ridiculous.

Not to mention, she goes to you to say this. At least with Hubert, he’s all the way on the other side of the Monastery, minding his own business. So you have to come up to him to get his “Never been one for condolences” line. But Edelgard seeks you out just to say all these insensitive things.

And two, she’s actively lying to Byleth. Since she talks about how no new information has been found out about their enemies. And then tells them that she’ll let them know the moment she finds out anything new. While being fully aware that she is the one privy to the most information about the ones responsible for the death of Jeralt. So on top of already being insensitive and selfish, she’s also being disingenuous.

[lilias42]

La bête aux pieds d'argile

Et pour une fois, je ne vais pas trop faire de blabla au début, je veux juste vous montrer, je vous expliquerait tout après ! Je suis très fière du résultat alors, je veux juste partager au plus vite ! 😃 C'est une idée qu'on a eu en discutant avec @ladyniniane qui faisait remarquer que Delagarde et Hubert ressemblait à la bête de la mer et celle de la terre dans l'Apocalypse alors, voilà le résultat en dessin !

(je sais, c'est en noir et blanc mais, j'aurais peur de le gâcher si je mettais de la couleur qui bavait sur d'autres parties vu que même si c'est du A3, les zones sont assez petites, mon crayon a pas mal travaillé le papier, et j'y ai déjà passé la moitié de ma nuit, plus mon dimanche donc, on va déjà partir comme ça ^^')

Je vais mettre le développement sous la coupe mais, je serais curieuse de connaitre votre interprétation avant de savoir qui est où et ce que veulent dire certaines formes !

Pour commencer, le sujet était "El et Hubert sont les bêtes de l'Apocalypse de la Mer et de la Terre", et je me suis basé sur cette représentation de ses deux créatures pour faire ma version Fodlan de cette histoire.

Delagarde est donc la Bête de la mer qui fait office d'Antéchrist quand l'Apocalypse approche. Elle est donc représenter comme sur l'enluminure, comme une bête avec des couronnes qui se fait adorer alors qu'elle est le mal incarnée mais, comme si l'artiste voulait se moquer d'elle et la représenter dans toute son horreur et la fragilité de son pouvoir.

Je me suis aussi inspiré des représentations de Baphomet vu que comme l'a souvent fait remarqué Fantasy Invader, elle lui ressemble beaucoup et a la même posture que le démon sur son panneau de fin. Alors, je lui ai donné une poitrine, sa couronne qui est censé être les cornes de l'Immaculée sont devenue des cornes de démons, et elle a des ailes mais, contrairement à Baphomet, ce n'est pas les siennes. Ce n'est pas un ange ou une sauveuse mais, elle veut se faire passer pour tel alors, elle veut des ailes d'anges alors, elle s'est clouée et collées des petites ailes dans le dos. ça sert à rien, elle ne pourra jamais voler avec et elle est plus ridicule qu'autre chose avec ces ailes minuscules qui tiennent à peine avec un clou et de la colle qui dégouline, comme elle ne sera jamais une sauveuse pour Fodlan.

D'ailleurs, elle porte aussi la couronne du Royaume et la bannière de l'Alliance sur ses cornes mais, pour la couronne, elle la porte n'importe comment, elle n'est pas sur sa porte mais comme si elle l'avait mise sur un porte-manteau et risque de tomber au moindre mouvement de tête car, elle ne sera jamais la vraie reine légitime du Royaume. Quant à la bannière de l'Alliance, je ne sais pas si ça se voie vraiment à l'image mais, l'écusson sur le tissu est toujours différent car, elle connait tellement mal Fodlan et s'intéresse si peu aux autres pays à part pour les envahir et leur imposer la civilisation adrestienne, qu'elle ne sait même pas à quoi ressemble l'étendard d'un de ses ennemis, surtout que si on suivait sa logique de façade jusqu'au bout du "les crêtes sont le mal et les gens doivent s'élever selon leur propre mérite !", bah Leicester le fait déjà depuis longtemps étant donné que l'ambition et la capacité personnel à s'enrichir est plus importante que les emblèmes, comme on le voie lorsque le margrave Edmund (nouveau noble grâce à ses capacités d'orateur et tout l'argent qu'il a gagné grâce à ses talents) remplace à la table ronde la famille Daphnel (donc famille à emblème mais, en perte de vitesse depuis que la moitié d'entre eux c'est barré dans le Royaume), ce qui montre qu'elle ne connait rien à ses voisins et veut en fait juste plus de pouvoir pour elle seule. De plus, le tissu est toujours attaché à ses cornes gauches car, si elle est assise sur son trône et que la carte de Fodlan est derrière elle, l'Alliance est à sa gauche et le Royaume à sa droite, sans penser que si elle leur fait face depuis Embarr en se tournant vers le nord, elle a inversé les deux pays sur ses cornes.

Elle tient aussi Ayrm avec sa queue, dont le bout est en tire-bouchon comme celle des cochons qui sont associé au poison de l'ignorance dans le bouddhisme (qui est également le poison auquel elle est le plus rattaché si je me souviens également bien des billets de Fantasy Invader) et qui n'est pas forcément l'animal qui a la meilleure réputation étant donné qu'il mange tout ce qui traine, ce qui oblige à bien faire bouillir sa viande si on veut la manger, voir à interdire complètement sa consommation pour des raisons d'hygiène, ce qui est surement à l'origine du fait que plusieurs religions interdisent d'en manger. Delagarde se sert de l'arme que lui ont donné les agarthans pour imposer sa tyrannie (et la lie encore plus au Diable vu que cette arme est liée à l'emblème de la Bête) mais là aussi, elle est pas vraiment en bon état : elle est cassée, certaines dents sont pourries et elle tombe en miette histoire de montrer que malgré toute son horreur, son pouvoir reste fragile vu qu'au moment où Aymr n'est plus brandit ou que les agents d'Hubert ne sont plus opérationnels, elle aura beaucoup plus de mal à imposer ses quatre volontés (tout en permettant de se moquer d'elle au passage vu que sa hache ignoble en forme de bouche qui dévore tout sur son passage, est en fait une grosse hache édentée qui tombe en morceaux et avec des morceaux pourris)

Comme la bête de la mer, Delagarde a plusieurs têtes qui crachent du feu dans tous les sens pour symboliser qu'elle s'attaque à tout ce qui l'entoure mais, aucune ne regarde le sol, personne ne peut la contester sur son territoire alors, elle ne regarde même pas ces sujets qui sont en train de la prier. De plus, j'ai fait en sorte qu'à part quand elle est plus ou moins de face à celui qui regarde le dessin, on ne voie jamais ses yeux avec sa coiffure qui lui bouche la vue comme des oeillères, comme Delagarde se met souvent des oeillères et refusent de voir la réalité en face. Là, elle ne voie que ce qui est devant elle et veut voir : ce que vont consumer ses flammes et tout ce qu'elle va cramer pour obtenir le pouvoir.

Cependant, ça l'empêche aussi de voir que ses pattes sont argiles, fragiles, qui craquèlent de partout et qu'elle est attaquée. Sous son ventre, on a Bernadetta qui est en train de graver l'emblème de Seiros de Rhéa sur son flan avec une de ses flèches afin de souligner son rattachement à la résistance et son soutien à l'Eglise que Delagarde persécute, pendant que Ferdinand est en train de couper une de ses pattes avec une hache, étant également dans la résistance et s'opposant à Delagarde et son impérialisme. Dans mon canon, ils sont même les deux chefs d'un des groupes résistants les plus importants de Fodlan. Enfin, derrière eux et sans que Delagarde ne le remarque, Petra est derrière elle et bande son arc pour décocher une flèche sur une des têtes de la bête, Brigid se battant farouchement pour leur indépendance et refusant de se soumettre (raison pour laquelle, elle est dans sa tenue de civil qui est surement un habit brigilène, même si ça ne se voie pas beaucoup, j'était sur le bout de ma page...)

Ensuite, on a Hubert qui est la bête de la Terre. Dans la légende, cette bête fait des tours pour convaincre les humains les humains que la bête de la mer est le Sauveur, et les faire tomber dans les griffes d'un antéchrist (de mémoire, si j'ai bien compris l'histoire) mais sur le modèle, il ressemble vraiment à un petit chien à sa mémère en fait ^^' Je l'ai alors représenté comme couché devant sa maitresse en se frottant les pattes mais, ses oreilles sont celles d'un chien : une dressé comme celle d'un chien de garde, une aplati sous sa mèche toute douveteuse comme celle d'un Cavalier King Charles pour le côté pelucheux et animal de compagnie de Delagarde. Sa queue est aussi celle d'un chien de chasse courant derrière les ennemis de sa maitresse, le foxhound anglais (et à la réflexion en l'écrivant, ça colle encore mieux vu qu'il courre après Ferdie qui a les cheveux roux). Pour ses cornes, j'ai voulu prendre celle de Grima de FE Awakening en exemple vu qu'il ressemblait vraiment à un être maléfique mais, vu que je l'ai fait de mémoire, je ne me souvenait plus qu'il n'avait pas 3 paires de cornes mais seulement une... enfin, il fait encore plus bêtes maléfiques avec des cornes de diable comme ça.

Il a aussi sa grosse mèche et un sourire carnassier de voir que leur plan se déroule comme sur des roulettes avec les roturiers qui prient El mais, au cas où, il a quand même les griffes de ses pattes arrières qui sont des couteaux, afin de rappeler qu'il assassinera quiconque représentant une menace pour son impératrice qu'il défendra jusqu'au bout, même si lui aussi ne se rend pas compte qu'elle se fait attaquer en douce.

Pour son oeil visible qui est vide, c'était à la base un oubli de ma part, j'ai oublié de dessiner son globe oculaire au brouillon mais, une fois passé à l'encre, je ne l'ai pas rajouté car, je trouvais que ça faisait ressembler son regard à celui des Agarthans comme Thalès ou Solon qui ont les yeux vides, Hubert utilisant les mêmes méthodes et la même magie qu'eux malgré tous les discours d'El "oui mais en fait, on les aime pas car c'est eux qui m'ont expérimenté, même si je les utilise pour le moment car ils sont pratique, MAIS je les tuerais quand j'aurais plus besoin d'eux ! Donc, ça passe ! Je les aide pas à continuer à faire des atrocités !".

Ensuite, pour les personnes face à Delagarde, ce sont des roturiers qui, abreuvés des mensonges d'El et la propagande, se mettent à la vénérer comme leur chef suprême et la nouvelle tête de proue de Fodlan, et même comme une Déesse (ce que Dimitri l'accuse de vouloir devenir dans leur face à face et vue la fin en duo d'Hanneman et Manuela, ça semble être le cas vu que l'église existe toujours après CF mais, tourne autour de l'empereur et de son idéologie), la première d'entre elle étant Dorothéa, à genoux devant elle, la priant et l'idolatrant. C'est elle qui a ce rôle car, c'est celle qui croit le plus à la rhétorique d'El et est sa pompom girl la plus fidèle dans le jeu, tout en étant aussi hypocrite qu'elle (surtout que je la voie bien pouvoir sortir "quand on veut, on peut" vu qu'elle a pu se sortir du caniveau grâce à sa voix et donc, elle pourrait appliquer cette même logique à tout le monde, sans comprendre que ce n'est pas possible que tout le monde devienne une diva à succès pour des milliers de raisons) donc, elle a le rôle de fidèle fanatique au regard vide à part son admiration pour son idole, biberonnée à la propagande qui vénère l'Impératrice comme sa nouvelle Déesse mais, sans se rendre compte qu'elle est un monstre.

D'ailleurs, elle n'a pas de pupille, ce qui rend son regard encore plus vide, et aucun des fidèles de Delagarde n'a d'yeux visibles. Même s'ils ont les cheveux attachés pour certains, ils ont toujours une grosse mèche devant les yeux qui leur bouche les yeux, ce qui permet de faire plus foule et de dire qu'ils ne voient pas qui est Delagarde pour ce qu'elle est vraiment, ont cru aux mensonges et au tour d'Hubert, et ils se mettent à la vénérer comme une Déesse, tous la priant devant elle. ça me permet également de me moquer du fait que si El dit détester la religion, elle pourrait se faire passer pour une Déesse et le Messie, elle le ferait sans hésiter à cause de son complexe du Sauveur. Donc, on donne un grand coup dans ses discours "Religion et Déesse = MECHANT PAS BO !!!" et on l'a fait vénérer par ses sujets.

Par contre, une d'entre eux à des yeux complets, et c'est la seule roturière qui est derrière eux et ne regarde pas Delagarde mais, célèbre plutôt l'arriver des vrais sauveurs. Elle porte d'ailleurs un habit d'évêque du jeu pour la rattacher à l'Eglise (et les vrais auront reconnu Margherita à son collier en forme de coeur [qui apparaitra peut-être un jour à Fodlan si je trouve l'occasion], même si elle n'a pas les cheveux attachés en deux couettes sortant d'une sorte de chignon [elle est inspirée par le design de Miku mais, avec une coiffure à la Sailor Moon], je trouvais que ça ressemblait trop à la coiffure en macaron de Delagarde et que ça ne rendait pas bien alors, elle a les cheveux détachés et libres). C'est la seule à voir El pour ce qu'elle est et à fêter l'arriver de ceux qui vont les sauver de cet Antéchrist et la guerre en Fodlan.

Enfin, tout en haut à droite de l'image, Byleth arrive en tenue de Prophétesse (même si la veste est celle de la version masculine, pas question que je dessine au premier degré Byleth dans la version féminine de cette tenue) et plante l'Epée du Créateur dans une des pattes de Delagarde, toujours pour la rattacher à l'église et pour signifier que le vrai prophète arrive pour chasser l'Antéchrist et pour ramener la paix de Sothis dans Fodlan. Elle porte également le bouclier de Seiros pour rappeler Rhéa et le fait qu'elle travaille ensemble. Enfin, elle est accompagnée et soutenue par un Lion pour Dimitri et Faerghus, un Cerf pour Claude et Leicester, et l'Immaculée pour l'Eglise, afin de montrer que tout Fodlan s'oppose à Delagarde et s'opposera toujours à sa tyrannie ! Je l'ai également dessiné plus grande que toutes les autres pour faire si elle était la Déesse elle-même venue pour arrêter le mal avec les bêtes protectrices du reste du continent, ainsi que souligner son importance dans la scène (et me simplifier la vie car il y a vraiment beaucoup de détail dans la tenue de Prophète - -' )

Et voilà ! Je crois que j'ai fait le tour de tout ce qu'il y avait à dire sur ce dessin ! J'espère qu'il vous plait !

[kitkatopinions]

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on the "Edelgard is evil" debate? (I swear I'm not trying to start drama I'm just genuinely curious given your thoughts on how the RWBY writers handled Ironwood.)

I feel like every defense of Edelgard is people saying that Those Who Slither In The Dark and Rhea are worse and therefore her attempts to take them out means she's fine, but imo Edelgard is pretty indisputably a villain no matter what other people did. She's the 'sympathetic villain who has a point' kind of evil, the 'the end justifies the means' kind of evil, but it doesn't excuse her actions. She's kind of a conqueror who tries to set herself up as a dictator in charge of other countries that her army invaded. Iirc in the Crimson Flower path, you basically just sweep through Fodlan taking people out who stand in your way of conquering, with no regard to civilian life (and yeah, sometimes Edelgard is like 'that was sad, huh?' after a battle, but that's hardly enough) and then they tacked on a 'and then after that I guess they took out Those Who Slither in the Dark' to the epilogue. And then people kind of just decided that's the good path because they hate the Church of Seiros. I also have a problem with how the writers wrote Edelgard in Fire Emblem Three Hopes, especially in regards to how they basically made Claude's path a win for the Black Eagles (and made Edelgard a Sad Wide-Eyed Widdle Baby). It seemed like Fire Emblem Three Hopes strongly wanted to appeal to Edelgard fans, and I feel like it really hurt the game actually.

Edelgard is very different from Ironwood. She was a villain from the start, her arc wasn't rushed, they never acted like no one cared about her and they never hung all the problems around her neck as a way to dismiss the problems with the status quo. She was a nuanced villain, and that's the extent of it imo. She falls into the problem of 'the revolutionary person who has a problem with the system is actually also a horrible person who is just as bad as the people she's against,' which I do have some problems with, but I also feel like it's slightly more of a 'District 13 in the Hunger Games' situation rather than a White Fang situation.

But a lot of people look at the nuance involved and look at her being against the current system and use it as a reason to dismiss all her crimes and pretend she's only ever been the good guy who only ever does good things. So yeah, that's my general opinion on that whole discourse.

[controversial-blorbo-bracket]

Ok i dont know why but for some reason edelgard makes me feel physically uneasy. Like i cant look at her without feeling either physically ill or uncomfortable. I dont know i its her huge fuckass eyes, boob hole in her academy outfit or the way shes all fond and uwu towards the avatar/professor that makes me feel that way

Guess this could be considered edelgard propaganda? Ultimately i dont care much for the war crimes bc arguably fire emblem is the warcrimes game i just have this strong reaction against her that makes me unable to genuinely like her even before anyone knew who she was as a character.

[namyks]

I'm pretty sure every time Edelgard shows up in Heroes I dislike just a little bit more. Like, in the winter set she's got a voice line where she say's "It'd be nice to have just one day not thinking about battle." Like this imperialist pigdog wasn't the main instigator of a war to conquer two countries that have both fought for their independence.

And of course she ate my first five-star in this banner in this banner. I've got every Edel except for her Legendary alt, and outside of Fallen, I've never try to pull for her. She just shows up.

Also, why is Yunaka here? Like, don't get me wrong I love the meme queen, but boy she feels super out of place here.

[n--n]

Thinking 3h thoughts and honestly Edelgard having TWSITD make Amyr for her is so sick. Like any charitable reading of her thoughts on the Nabataeans is out the window for me this girl really got gifted a Person Axe by her evil allies and never once (to my knowledge) lamented that it was made from a person at the very least

[butwhatifidothis]

it annoys me so much when people say "edel had no other choice" as a thought terminating cliche. like even IF that were true, how one goes about that is still a characterful thing that gets minimized to "so it's not her fault stop being mean to her she just did what she had to". like. does she feel regret? does she apologize ot the people she's hurting? does she view it as righteous? who knows, becuase the argument is only ever used as a "stop being mean to my wife" line and not a character thing.

Yeah cuz like. Okay so let's say that starting the war was absolutely not her fault because xyz circumstance robs her of any substantial say in the matter.

What about using Demonic Beasts? What about her siccing her army and different set of Demonic Beasts on her own "friends" so that she could make more Demonic Beasts? Stealing from a gravesite to do so? What about starving her citizens, and being the only lord TO starve her citizens in their route? What about killing Judith as she ran away from her? Hell, invading the neutral Alliance in the first place? What about helping the Death Knight get away with stealing Flayn if 25 turns pass? What about saying nothing about Kronya even after Solon reveals himself at Remire? What about giving Jeritza a hunting ground to enable his bloodlust and not, like. Professional help?

She couldn't even mention a means she's working on to do anything about her starving citizens? Did she have to blame Claude (and everyone really) not immediately bowing down to her as to why the Alliance was violently invaded, and not her violent invasion being the reason it was violently invaded? What about persecuting Church followers who didn't do shit to anybody, did she have to do that shit too? Never freeing Brigid and instead stationing her men there on her route and sending Hubert there off of it; that was forced on her too? Taking Byleth's credit during the siege instead of letting them get the recognition they deserve - what, just, fate forcing her hand once again?

Are we really going to sit here and say because the war "needed" to happen, Edelgard was forced to do literally all of that (and more)? That because Edelgard was "forced" into war, she was also forced to do literally anything involving the war?

Like you said, her stans saying that she "had no choice" but to start the war does nothing to say anything about her as a character, because they also reject everything else she did regarding her war as having anything to do with her agency. They treat "she had to do this" as a means to protect the moral purity they want her character to have so they don't feel bad rooting for the villain to win, not as something that goes on to mean anything for her.

And I'm not asking for her to save literally every single person ever from any harm ever to prove her care about not going to war exists, I'm asking for LITERALLY ANYTHING. Because she quite literally does nothing to mitigate harm from anybody in this war, and regardless of whether the war was "forced" on her hands or not she absolutely could have done something to make sure her people suffered as minimally as possible. Which damn sure isn't seen in her hiding behind them as she sits in her throne room (a thing Dimitri and Claude absolutely don't do, with either similar or less time to prepare to protect their people). Or starves them, a thing uniquely said about her route (as literally all the other ones have the army go with lacking food supplies). Or allows Thales to conscript them under threat of death. Or openly saying that she thinks weak people would only stay weak after her war because they're "too used to relying on others" - because when her war takes everything away from people, it'd be THEIR fault for staying weak, which is *chef's kiss* so kind and caring amiright guys. Definitely shows off that she understands and/or cares about the ramifications of her war onto the people, and not that she has her head shoved squarely and firmly up her ass.

What does it meaningfully mean for the war to not be Edelgard's fault, if she's not going to do anything to indicate that she cares about other people enough to want to not force war on them? Hell, when she very explicitly shows she doesn't particularly care about how it'd affect people, if it affects people in a way that doesn't align with her beliefs? When she very explicitly says she's perfectly willing to sacrifice her people for her higher cause, and then goes on to sacrifice her people for her higher cause? If she doesn't even try to help others because the war was forced on her, that at best makes her one of powerless victim or uncaring defeatist - neither of which fit the resolute caring ambitious revolutionary they paradoxically also want her to be. So, again, what does it actually mean for the war to not be a result of Edelgard's agency, if she regardless of that still shows callous indifference to those harmed by the war?

It's a question no one who posits this about Edelgard is able to answer, because as you said, it's not meant to be anything more than a shallow defense against her own actions. Letting Edelgard have even the slightest smidgen of agency in her own actions means accepting that she is a massive fucking penis. A huge gaping asshole. A plain ol' jerk. Which again! Is INFINITELY more engaging to watch than this marionette strung along by literally everyone around her into "looking" like a villain, only being her "true" self when she's feeding kittens and dwawing her cwush and burping her googoo gaga babyass girlfriend they also tend to make (f!)Byleth over her shoulder

[archer3-13]

Small plot holes are fine, big one however can ruin the story. That can make something literaly crumble if it's too big. And if i recall 3 houses had its fair share of those.

Not strictly disagreeing, just ya know. Sometimes a plothole isn't a plothole its an intentional choice to leave information out or ambiguous, and part of critical analysis is recognizing when that is and isn't the case.

for instance, is the tragedy of duscur and if dimitris adoptive mother culpable in it a plothole? no, its pretty clearly suppose to be an ambiguous note left unresolved as part of dimitris own journey as a character. a sad reminder that he'll never really know the full truth of what happened there, but that he needs to keep moving forward regardless for the sake of those who rely on him. even the fact that we get presented contradictory information on the matter is a deliberate writing choice to emphasize its place in the story.

on the other hand, does edelgard have sibling or not? i would say the story as it stands in three houses only really works under the assumption that edelgard is an only child, because otherwise the idea that edelgard has numerous siblings creates inconsistencies in other essential areas of the narrative three houses wants to tell. But in other areas of the text where its more convenient to present edelgard as having multiple siblings, shes presented as having multiple siblings. Thus it becomes a plothole in the story because the information is presented as true when its relevant, but otherwise not treated as if it were true when it is irrelevant. this isn't carefully cultivated contradictions, this is writing thats missing pieces of itself and connective tissue to the story being told. Hence, what I would consider, a plothole.

[butwhatifidothis]

after having to kill civilians

days after Byleth had their father murdered in front of them and die in their arms

in her A support with Byleth, the penultimate support that could potentially be the closest she gets to them on a personal level

talking about other countries

talking about her war

look at all that empathy bein' shown here, clearly that's why she started her war

I saw someone say that Edelgard started a war out of empathy

aint no way

[tea-cat-arts]

[apropername]

[megafan1993]

Whats makes this even worse is that Hopes gives us a purfect counterpart of Petra in the Sreng general in Dimitri and Sylvain paralogue. Unfortunately I can't remember his name at this moment.

Like Petra he was taken hostage by a enemy nation that has had a long history of conflict and didn't understand the local language but unlike her he was taught it by Sylvain father among other parts of the kingdom culture. Whitch is funny because the guy has a actually reasons to hate the Sreng people but shows his ward/Hostage more respect then any of the Nobility in the Empire.

The hostage also chose to escape and to keep fighting for his homland with his people unlike Petra who stays with her captors unless somone else gives her the option to leave, Either Byleth in houses or getting recruited in Hopes.

Lime its pretty bad when a NPC who only shows up for one mission has a better written backstory then a playable character.

I saw your post about dumb points people make so that Dimitri and the Kingdom come off as worse and to justify Edelgard invasion and I was wondering if you have heard the one about how people try to use Duscur amd Sreng as a excise?

Like they claim that the Kingdom bad treatment of both nations makes them morally evil and that they deserve to be wiped out and conquered in return or that Dimitri has no actual desire to free Duscur and is just using them.

But they always conveniently forgot that the Empire has done the same thing to Brigid and Dagda in the past or even the fact that Edelgard is openly using Brigid

Imo that also explains why Petra completely falls flat as a character, because we have the situation where she is Adrestia's hostage, and could really bring something to the table about imperialism, power (in)balance and...

We have Nopes, where, iirc, Pat tried to lolcalise the part where she wonders why Faerghus used to see Duscur as something else than a land to be conquered before the Tragedy, when Adrestia always set its sights on Brigid - but bar that?

In this situation - a character being a literal hostage of another - I would have expected more than 5 throw away lines and the insulting (Petra is a princess, not the daughter of a fisherman, you really want me to believe she never learnt the language of the juggernaut trying to invade every saturday? Apparently Brigid people know how to speak Fodlanese, if her paralogue is any indication!) trope of "doesn't know the language".

(and yet it speaks volumes about how Adrestia treated her, even if it's not realistic : the child under house Goneril's "good care" is more fluent than her even if he has difficulties to pronounce Mercie's name, whereas the commoner who was saved and cared for by the prince is perfectly fluent in both languages, and even taught him some Duscurian in return!)

But ranting about Petra will take another post altogether, especially how she is perceived in certain, hm, corners of the fandom.

Let's say people living in said corner of the fandom embraced their favourite png's rhetoric, and the famous "Adrestian double standard" even in their real life interactions (with other fans). And it when it doesn't apply, they just create it.

I remember early on after the first Nopes leaks how people tried to piece out (10k years of lore!!) how Sreng and Faerghus's borders came to be, and some "devoted fans" immediately jumped on the Faerghus BaD wagon.

But conveniently ignored Wilhelm the Sailor, writing how he utterly failed his campaign to invade Dagda, off handedly mentions how Brigid people are "savages" and prefers to die there than to face the Emperor of the time who's going to be very pissed that he didn't manage to invade Dagda.

It's more or less (10k years of lore I'm telling you!) explained Sreng and Faerghus/Gautier fight over ressources, but why the fuck Adrestia wants to "adrestianise" Brigid and Dagda? For ressources or just to spread the might and glory of Emperor Ionius III ?

Saying Dimitri doesn't want reparations for Duscur and to cleanse Duscur's name is like saying Rhea's ears are round - you have a better chance to win an argument against a potted plant than against some people who aren't even talking about the game.