#and yet defend another character that AT BEST we haven't seen yet but it's painted in a bad light like BIG IIIIF if something is unreliable

[adamnablelittledevil]

It's crazy how for so many in this fandom it is so easy to understand how Magnus abused Lestat and all the r*pe metaphors, but that logic suddenly disappears when we're talking about other characters that also suffered SA and exploitation...

[gralunaisland]

Gruvians are really condescending and always acting like they're better than anyone else, and that their fave is also better than all the other characters. At least that's the impression I get whenever I come across some of their posts. The old excuse of "The fans acting like this are only a minority, don't paint the whole fandom with the same brush" can only go so far. Not to mention I've never seen any of them acknowledge j*via's toxic behaviour.

I completely understand your pain and your beef with gr///vians. I'm sorry you've had to deal with the toxic ones; no one should have to.

As an Anti gr////via blog, I definitely get my fair share of condescension and hate from the Pros. Most of the rude ones talk down to me as if I'm a little child, or just come out the gate swinging with insults aimed at my intelligence and maturity.

I've gotten people who assume the worst of me and say I'm being b*tchy when I'm analyzing facts, or who put words into my mouth and claim I'm "talking for all stalking victims" and say to me "you should just shut your mouth because you haven't been stalked but I have so I get to say how people should respond to gr////via and I say gr///via is just the best" (as if that makes any sense), or who literally troll me and stalk my page despite me tagging things correctly just to comment immature and nasty things just to try and make me mad and to taunt me to block them when I didn't want to, or who hop onto my blog to mock me for all they're worth (which is decidedly not much) and then block me so I can't even defend myself etc. etc. etc...

Hahh that's enough examples. It could always be worse. :D

Anyway, I advocate for equal and respectful discussion and discourse, and yet so many Pros that I come across can't seem to find it in themselves to agree to do that. It's just sad for them, really. They're the ones stunting their own growth and making themselves look like idiots for thinking it's ok to insult and put down people for having a different opinion.

I will say, while perhaps the saying "don't lump everyone in one group" doesn't seem so true when you're constantly bombarded in the face with gr///vians who try to claim they're superior for liking a canon ship (happens way more than they'd probably want to admit, or maybe they consider it a good thing who knows), I would still refrain from saying all gr///vians are like this. I try to be just and fair even if the Pros who post negativity don't tend to be the same towards the Antis. I'm thinking it's just most of the vocal Pros who are the ones who try to cause a scene and insult everyone who disagree with juvia being an absolute queen and gr///via being OTP . It's definitely easy to think most Pros are bullies and snobs though, because that's what I have to deal with most of the time I deal with Pros anyway.

However, I've gotten a couple of good interactions with Pros. One kind Pro came into my ask box and told me that while they like gr///via, they understand some of her flaws and could see where I was coming from on some of my posts (here it is), and another was really sweet and civil who commented on my "request for discussion" post and who also acknowledged that gr///via isn't a perfect ship.

It's those people that I have a lot of respect for, that they can look at something they like objectively and criticize it, so I would never say that I hate all Pros or think they're all mean. Whenever I talk negatively in my posts about Pros, I'm always referring to certain niches of them who act like how I describe them in the particular post. There are plenty who do, but I don't want to use absolutes because most of the time they're untrue.

All in all, I'd just say try to be the bigger person. Do what the mean Pros won't do, like block the hashtags you don't want to see and steer clear from reading their posts and don't comment insults on their posts (not that you do these things of course). They may treat us poorly, but we don't have to reciprocate. We can prove we're better by being above it all.

Anyway, thank you for the ask!

[yourspunkpunk]

Enough is enough. I'm hoping this is the last response I have to make regarding this pro-post that Zavala haters/Caydestans have escalated. I'd appreciate if you (including the person I'm responding to above) would stop responding to this post if your only purpose is to defame Zavala, because it's proving nothing but you're hurt feelings over a pro-Zavala post obviously not intended for you.

...I think you need to realize that just because you personally haven't seen the Zavala hate doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It does. It always has been. It's just been so casually waved off by everyone because this fandom was so used to being biased to certain characters and aspects of the plot that Zavala getting defended has been regarded as foreign without much attention given.

However, now that Zavala is getting more attention for acting responsibly and being defended by more people than he had been in the past, people like those above (mostly Cayde stans from what I've seen) are starting to think there's a problem when there is no problem. Just because a character you hate is receiving more recognition for being responsible doesn't make him terrible and worthy of death and condemnation.

You guys are getting things a little twisted. Zavala was more against striking an all out war when we had already lost so much and are in dwindling numbers than us personally leaving. His response was a direct response to Ikora's statement of an all out war we weren't ready to put forth. We're literally not ready for another one. Making a decision on the basis of the security of those we vow to protect isn't wrong like all of you are trying to paint it out to be. It's called responsibility, and unlike Cayde, Zavala is thrown into the position to make these hard decisions some may not like, but it's proven to be in the best interests of the many civilians we've sworn to protect and their safety.

If he were more against us going to the Reef, he would've been far more vocal and maybe would've taken action, because it's been stated and shown in lore repeatedly that he's bold and brave. But what did he do?

He allowed us to go, then welcomed us back home with open arms. He even admitted if it were another time, if we were actually prepared for a war, he would've killed Uldren himself. But seeing the City wasn't ready for that, nor for him leaving, he simply couldn't do it. They needed him there. And people needing Zavala to think of their security isn't his fault. It's just a common attribute of responsibility and leading.

You guys (or more like the people above you) are just trying to stretch and grasp at anything to paint Zavala as the ultimate wrong in this narrative. Some of you say "there are points on both sides", but I only see you vehemently defending the side opposing and hating Zavala, and have yet to actually see an effective argument coming from y'all for Zavala other than "o he feelz badd".

He wasn't 100% wrong. He made a decision for the people. Not because he didn't want the blame if something went wrong. Not because he's a coward. And not because he's not disciplined. It's because these people literally need him more than ever, they need him to survive. So he can't afford high risks like another war anymore. We're dwindling and still recovering.

Zavala and Forsaken stuffs

Intense rumbles about Zavala below (Warning: I have a lotta feelings)

No seriously, if you’re not prepared for a feelsy essay/borderline meta about him, turn back now cause I got A lotta Feelings.

(spoilers, duh)

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