#and then i've found 2 who are game die hards and refuse to accept that the game HAS to be changed for television

[acesammy]

it’s actually starting to bother me how many people are saying that TLOU show is inherently better at story telling than the game, bc games in general are a worse medium to tell stories in than TV

[tellmegoodbye]

Tag Game: Endings

Thank you @lonestar-s5countdown as always for the questions. I've had fun doing these!

Most of these got pretty rambly, so sorry about that! I just have a lot of feelings about this show.

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(1) Which 911 Lone Star season finale is your favorite?

It's gotta be 4x18! I loved how the journeys these characters were going through all accumulate in the overarching theme of choosing love even when you're in pain.

TK and Carlos chose to have their wedding in spite of the grief and the pain of unanswered questions. Judd chose to take care of Wyatt and refused to give up hope, but he also listened to his needs after he pushed him too hard. Tommy and Trevor chose to love each other in spite of the gossipers, and during the wedding Tommy reveals that she isnt opposed to getting married again. She's choosing to let herself feel that happiness again when she finds that Trevor is someone she would want to have that with. Robert chose to give his family some peace instead of letting them watch as he continued to get sicker. He's giving his family the gift of life by ending his own, and Owen chose to be there for him even though he would have to watch his brother die for a second time. He chose to make sure he wouldnt be alone even though there could be consequences and even though his family would probably feel hurt and betrayed if they found out.

These are all situations in which they have to make tough decisions and come to an understanding about all of the complex feelings that they have. There's happiness, and there's sadness. There's pain, and there's joy. And at the end of the day, that's what life is. I think the season 4 finale was both a beautiful insight into the headspace of each character in regards to their pain, but overall it is a reminder of what it means to live.

(2) What was your favorite moment from the season 4 finale?

The wedding! That's probably the obvious answer, so I'm going to get more specific and say that I loved the final scene with the montage overlayed with Tommy singing Being Alive. A perfect song choice in regards to the theme I discussed in the last question.

This scene gives us a brief look into all of the different stages of grief, pain, and healing each character is in. We see joy from Tarlos on their honeymoon. We see hope from Grace, Judd and Wyatt as he begins to make some progress with his mobility. We see a sort of acceptance from Owen and Robert, as well as the begginings of grief for Owen when they prepare for Robert to end his own life. I particularly loved how the scene ended with the song coming to a close and we watch as Owen struggles to process the fact that Robert is dead, until he eventually finds the strength to call 911. That was a really memorable and haunting moment for me.

They're all struggling with unique problems and dealing with their pain in their own ways, but that's proof that they are still living.

(3) Are there any storylines that you would like to see brought back for a more satisfying conclusion?

Not necessarily a specific storyline, but I would love to see how Nancy handles a leadership role now and how she's grown since the DNI incident. I would also like to explore her backstory more and her relationship with Mateo.

(4) Pick one character and tell us where you hope to see them at the end of season 5.

For Owen, I would really like to see him coming back to his roots. In season 4 he was lost. He expressed feelings of loneliness in the wake of TK getting married and "not needing" him. I want to see him rediscover his worth. Whether it be helping his family in TK and Carlos, or helping everyone else. From all of the intense distasters and emergencies they will face, to the dilemmas Owen will have to resolve when it comes to losing Judd and Tommy temporarily, and having to make a decision between Paul and Marjan. Owen will fall back into that leadership role and find that he still has a lot to give to people and a lot of people who still care about him and rely on him. I also want to see him come to a place of forgiveness in himself in regards to Robert. He's made a lot of progress with the guilt he feels towards everything else that has happened in his life, but Owen truly feels most at peace when he's helping people and he's going to have to learn how to find peace in not being able to fix everything, even if he did the best he could.

(5) What is one thing you really want to see before the show ends?

A Carlos dedicated episode! He's definitely due for one and I can feel it in my bones that s5 will give that to us in some fashion.

@strandnreyes @lemonlyman-dotcom @heartstringsduet @bonheur-cafe @herefortarlos

@literateowl @carlos-tk @paperstorm @guardian-angle22 @lightningboltreader

@ironheartwriter @emsprovisions @sapphic--kiwi @welcomehometk @corsage

@nancys-braids @captain-gillian @alrightbuckaroo @theghostofashton @thisbuildinghasfeelings

@carlos-in-glasses @freneticfloetry @reyesstrand @butchreyes @firstprince-history-huh

+ open tag

[ziracona]

Could you elaborate on that Gordon fan theory about him being an inside mole? I haven't heard of it before and it sounds intriguing. Plus ever since the small reference to him on the memorial in ILM, I've been wondering what your thoughts were on how he ended up

Oof, okay, buckle up. This will be the abridged version but that’s still gonna be long. (Don’t read if you want to avoid spoilers for the Saw franchise).

So, in Saw, Gordon is a fkn anomaly to most of the fanbase. Becuase he has a wildly solidified character. You watch Gordon & Adam both go through three different character arcs back to back, and trauma bond, and the second to last scene in Saw is this fkn devestating & beautiful one where—let me back up. So. Quick Saw summary. Two people wake up chained by the ankle to pipes in a small nasty abandoned bathroom with a corpse on the floor between them. They’re each left a tape recorder which tells them why they’ve been targeted (Gordon because he doesn’t value life enough which is evidenced by...? — real reason is he’s literally just the unfortunate Doctor who told John he had Cancer, and John Kramer is that petty of a stupid bitch. & Adam is grabbed becuase...Literally he didn’t even bump into John Kramer or something. The guy took him because he’s a starving early 20s kid who is a photographer, and John thinks his occupation & he are pathetic. I’m not joking. Or exaggerating. This is quite literally the given reason for torturing & killing Adam being fine to John). Anyway, Gordon’s wife and like 7 year old daughter have been kidnapped and are being held at gunpoint. Gordon is told that if he finds a way to murder Adam by six (poor Fkn Adam is 6 feet away & hears this whole tape) on the clock, they and he go free. Adam is told if he can stay alive until after six, he wins and can go free.

They spend then the remaineder of Saw trying, like you’d hope good, decent, or even medium or somewhat shitty people would, to help each other escape, rather than Gordon trying to kill Adam at all. They attempt to fake Adam’s death & fail bc they didn’t realize their shackles were wired & they could be zapped, which makes playing dead really hard. Initially they are frustrated by each other, especially Gordon, who is an adult & levelheaded, by Adam who is young and jouvenile and freaking out & being a pain at first, but they bond through attempting to escape & to figure out what’s happened to them, and also learn more truth about each other. Meanwhile you also get backstory on Jigsaw & the case, and follow Detective Tapp’s story through a few investigated murders, the loss of his partner, and to where he is following Gordon, whom he is convinced is Jigsaw, now. Back in the bathroom, Adam and Gordon reach 6 on the clock, and Gordon gets a phone call where the man holding his wife at gunpoint makes her tell him he failed his game & now she and their daughter have to die. His wife bites the man’s hand, and they fight, but all Gordon hears is screaming in his wife and child’s voices and gunshots, and he has a mental breakdown believing they’re being murdered on the other end of the phone. Then is electrocuted. Adam flips out and tries to throw small stones at Gordon’s body to wake him up, terrified he’s dead, and succeeds. Adam is overcome with relief, but Gordon has a full mental breakdown, almost having died and believing his family is dead, then swapping immediately to denial and convincing himself it’s not too late and he can still save them. Adam tries desperately to apologize and calm him down, then to in horror talk him into stopping while he watched Gordon begin to saw off his foot (Adam was given a saw for this purpose too, but his broke early on before they realized the saws were meant for their feet instead of the chains). Gordon does not stop, and Adam watches in horror as he cuts off his foot, crawls to the gun the dead body on the floor has been holding, and puts the one bullet he was given into it. He tells Adam while crying and breaking down that he’s sorry but he has to die he has to save his family. Adam begs him not to shoot, but he does.

Meanwhile, Bc he’s staking out Gordon’s home, Tapp hears shots, runs in, and is able to chase off the killer and save Gordon’s wife and daughter. He pursues the killer to the meat packing plan, where he is ambushed, struggles, and then is shot in the stomach and left for dead. The man, Zepp, makes it to the bathroom where Gordon tries to shoot him with the bow empty gun & screams at him for what he did to his family, who he still believes are dead, then breaks down crying again. Zepp takes out a gun and tells him he failed to kill Adam by 6, so he has to die. Gordon asks hopeless why, and he tells him those are the rules, then goes to shoot him while Gordon tries to shut his eyes and brace for death. Adam, who is not dead, grabs Zepp’s feet and drags him down in a surprise attack, rips the toilet bowl lid off the toilet, and beats him to death with it, saving Gordon, who watches in shock and then crawls over and puts a hand on his shoulder and gets him to stop beating the dead corpse. Adam is wounded & criying because gunshot wounds fkn hurt, & Gordon tries to comfort him. Tells him it’s just a flesh wound—it’s his shoulder—he’ll be okay. Just keep pressure on it. He has to go get help. Adam begs him not to leave him alone in the bathroom, but Gordon says he has to or he’s going to bleed to death (which is incredibly visually apparent). Adam tries to keep him, then watches him crawl and pleads for him to wait and asks if they’re going to be okay? Gordon tells him “I wouldn’t lie to you.” and gives him a reassuring smile while half dead and crawls out to look for help. Adam is left alone and searches Zepp’s corpse for keys to his shackle, then finds a tape exactly like his & Gordon’s. He plays it, and realizes to his horror this man Zepp was another victim, not Jigsaw. He was poisoned and told to kidnap Gordon’s family & shoot them both & Gordon if Gordon lost to earn an antidote, or just accept death and refuse to participate. While the tape plays, the corpse in the room with them stands up, and Adam realizes to overwhelming horror it has been alive the whole time, and it is Jigsaw, who wanted a front row seat to their torture, suffering, and death. He tries to grab Zepp’s gun & shooot him, but Jigsaw/John electrocutes him w a remote (the shackles are wired) and leaves, congratulating him on winning & telling him where his key is (it got flushed down a drain when Adam woke up, which John no doubt planned), then telling him “Game Over” and locking him alone in the bathroom because John’s a fake ass piece of shit who doesn’t even keep his promises & let the winners go.

The end scene between Adam and Gordon is phenomenal & heart wrenching (Saw is an amazing character piece of a film, & the first film is the reason it became a modern horror staple! Watch here if you’re curious! :’-]

While Gordon does eventually, under extreme duress, shoot Adam, he never wants to kill him, and they are definitely close by the end of the film (which is clear both from the way they treat each other, and their more decisive actions, like Adam risking his life to save Gordon after being shot by him & never seeking recompense for the gunshot, Gordon trying to help Adam & comfort him as well as get help for them both). This is the central relationship of Saw 1, and it’s really well done.

Then, in Saw 2, there’s just no mention of Gordon going back to save Adam. We wonder what happened, until Amanda & Danny stumble to the bathroom form Saw 1 & you are greeted by Adam’s decaying corpse still chained there. It’s later revealed that Gordon escaped the bathroom, cauterized his wound on a hot pipe because he knew he was going to die otherwise, then passed out from pain. John found him and took him to his workshop, where he nursed him back to health & gave him a prosthetic leg, before convincing him to join the team.

Understandably, this did not sit well with any of the Saw fandom. We fight about all kinds of stuff, but the one thing I’ve like, never seen disagreement on, is that it makes no fkn sense for Gordon to betray Adam like that after how close they were, and it makes even less sense he’d willingly join the man who super tried to murder his wife and kid. If it wasn’t for Tapp and Adam, Gordon, his wife, and his child would be dead now. John endangered all 3 intentionally, and did not save or spare any of them.

Still with me? So. Because of that, people started digging. Now, out of Jigsaw’s apprentices, Gordon is the only one who never takes a very active roll. He did not run games or kidnap people. Becuase he was a doctor, John called him in to do medical work for tests, such as sewing a key into the eye of the man from the cold open to Saw II. The only active work he takes is catching Hoffman at the end of Saw 3D & locking him in the basement, which John asked him to do if Hoffman killed Jill (which Hoffman does). This together with Gordon’s character led to a massive fan theory. Let me try to break it down.

After Saw 1, Gordon joins a support group for Jigsaw game survivors, and returns to his family. We get very little info about him period until Saw 3D though. However! Pre Saw 1, Jigsaw basically never lost, the cops never even got close. Suddenly after Saw 1, the entire gang falls apart, starting with Amanda and John, then finally Hoffman & Jill. In Saw 3, it’s revealed Amanda went back to the bathroom to kill Adam when he survived his test. She promises she’s there to help him when he wakes up scared and half dead in the dark, and then puts a plastic bag over his head and smothers him while he fights. This lead to a fan theory that Gordon went back to save Adam once he could (able to walk & not being shadowed by Jigsaw), but was too late, and decided to take revenge very carefully. However, Amanda has a shit track record of thinking she killed someone & not checking for a pulse (see Eric Matthews, who she thought she beat to death), so the even more popular theory is that Adam was not dead by the time Gordon got to him, and Gordon saved him and replaced his corpse with another. This theory is backed by the fact that Adam was shot in the shoulder, but when the body is seen in other films, it is both too decayed to be recognizable, and the gunshot wound is in the stomach (where Tapp was shot). Furthermore, when Amanda & Danny find Zepp and “Adam”’s bodies in Saw 2, Zepp, who was already partially bald, still has hair, yet Adam’s corpse is completely bald. The shackle is also on the wrong foot now, which would indicate it was removed and then replaced by someone in a hurry. Now, obviously it’s possible this was just a continuity error, but given that Saw usually has a good track record with continuity (and uses them a lot for big reveals), that gives more weight than usual to the theory.

So, this led to the idea that Gordon was able to either save Adam, or at least remove his body & bury it, replaced it with a fake (possibly Tapp? but considering the bodies wouldn’t be decayed enough for the skin to be missed if he did it when Adam was alive or in decent preserve even, and Tapp is considerably taller, I’d assume he, as a doctor, didn’t have too much trouble stealing a John Doe cadaver from the hospital) corpse in Adam’s clothes, then agreed to help Jigsaw becuase he was smart enough to know if he didn’t play along, John would kill him (he would, and has. He never lets people with dangerous information go). John also tends to have failsafes in place, like “if Gordon betrays me, kill his daughter” kind of stuff, so the theory is Gordon played along to keep his family safe, instead of going to the cops, since he knew at least Hoffman worked for Jigsaw already, and there might be more plants, and did his best to engineer the breakdown and eventual demises of the whole team from Saw 1 on. (Was the one who gave Hoffman the idea to threaten Amanda or the info to do it, intentionally failed to protect Jill from Hoffman to have an easy excuse to kill/see both dead, etc). Makes double sense if Adam was alive, becuase if Gordon revealed himself as mole, first thing Jigsaw & co would check is what else he messed with, and they knew he was close to Adam.

There’s a lot more details to it, but that’s the short version. Most people I know in the Saw fandom ascribe to it in a weird kind of “Look I know it’s probably just inconsistent character writing and in that case fuck Gordon he can go to hell, but since I truly don’t believe Saw 1 Lawrence Gordon would do this & there’s enough evidence for reasonable doubt, I choose to believe the convoluted theory that makes him make sense & also means Adam could maybe be alive” way. Including me. If Gordon really decides he has no issue with John after what he did to him, his baby girl, Adam, and his poor wife, joins him willingly & helps, then he’s as bad as Amanda & Hoffman & fuck that guy. But since the characterization doesn’t match /at all/ & there’s never an explanation given, & fan theory makes more sense, I tend to think of Gordon as if the fan theory is right? Although if you don’t & thus hate Gordon, 100% respect. I just cannot watch Saw 1 & believe Lawrence would join up for any reason but revenge & long con to keep family safe. I mean, he tried to kill a /friend/ to save his family. You’re really going to try to convince me the man who cut off his own foot by hand to try to save his wife and daughter would ever be cool with or forgive the man who tried to execute them for no reason? Uhhh, to quote Dr. Gordon himself,

I mean.

💁🏻‍♀️ You can’t convince me the man this hellbent on destroying the man who was threatening his family did not make him pay, and just decided to be pals. You can’t. It’s inconsistent writing. :’-] anyway, there’s other info too���one of the disguised figures who helps Lawrence take out Hoffman is the exact height Adam was, the plastic bag from Amanda is gone & the corpse in a different position, etc—been like 2 years so I don’t even remember it all, but it’s very fascinating. & that’s the short yet somehow still too long version of the Gordon theory I definitely did not proof read at all for which I apologize! It’s more convincing than I write it I swear I am just exhausted. :’-] But yeah, most saw fans ascribe to it, which is why we all seem to still like Gordon, and he’s so often shipped with Adam, both of which would probably otherwise seem massively confusing. Hope it helps!

(Oh! & in ILM, since i ascribe to that theory, I wrote him that way. Failed to save Adam, buried his body, then took slow, careful revenge on Jigsaw & co. to keep his family safe. Knows there are deaths he is not blameless for becuase of that, and is full of guilt over wondering if going to the police wouldn’t have saved people, even if he had understandable doubts & reasons for what he did. Is especially guilty for Adam’s death. Seeks to make reparations slowly his own way. [tho also soemtimes secretive characters lie to me until it becomes necessary for me to know, so it’s possible Gordon saved Adam & is hiding it, but given the whole gang is dead, I don’t know why he still would be, so I think ILM verse all he could do was bury the body]).