#and sorry for the ramble i just love that you noticed how halsin is in durge's corner

[mythical-mithaps]

I feel this on a deep personal level since I romanced Halsin first playthrough.

But like it's so sad how everyone kind of just brushes it over until there's a dead bard on the table-

Like everyone's just like "Yeah whatever" but then you murder Alfira and they're like "OMG WHY DID YOU DO THAT WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU??" And it's like "?!?!?! I TOLD YOU!!"- Idk as a Redeemed Durge it's just sad since then it's like you're isolated from your group since you're "Bhaalspawn" and could murder anyone and now everyone has to walk on eggshells because they don't want to trigger your bloodlust.

Idk having Halsin look at your peep and want to help you with your urges ans memory is so nice. Like "Thank you omg you see me!!" It's so refreshing...

Halsin being the only person to actually listen to Durge and believe that something is wrong is both heartbreaking for the isolation from the rest of the group and comforting that at least one person cares from the start.

They have nothing of themself, but they have one person that will listen.

[thelikesoffinn]

Hi!! ❤️

I would love to read your analysis of how your thoughts may have changed regarding Astarion and poly relationships, now that his post-Mizora dialogue has been revamped and he reacts badly to the affair. It's such a big change, I'm so intrigued by Larians decision to do it.

(dialogue here, just in case: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/pEMgC6nQr4)

Thank you! Your opinions are so great, and I'm sorry if you've already talked about this and I missed it!

Hiya there, babes!

Thank you, I'm flattered you like my rambling ♥️

I'll gladly check that one out - I haven't yet seen the new reaction because it's been a hot minute since I played act 3 and I've been avoiding spoilers ever since patch seven, so we're all getting fresh eyes this time, haha. But first, since a couple of people asked about it these past few days, I'd like to go over why I hated the old reaction as much as I did.

I'm sorry for using your ask to make this sort of bastardised hybrid of your question, but I figured it goes hand in hand with your ask!

Let's get to it!

Why is Astarion's old reaction to Tav/Durge sleeping with Mizora so. fucking. shit?

Especially since he is generally okay with poly-relationships (see Halsin) and flings (see drow twins)? So Mizora shouldn't be a big deal either, right? It should be all the same.

Well - yes and no.

Yes, because essentially the bare bones are the same. It all just boils down to Tav/Durge having sex with a character that isn't Astarion and we've seen him be absolutely fine with Tav sleeping with both Halsin and the drow twins whenever Tav asked him about it.

Now, he wasn't exactly on board with Harleep but that was likely for an entirely different reason. You know, essentially selling your body to a strange incubus for eternity and all that may strike a chord with our fanged companion, since he himself already knows the weight of such deals and has first hand experience in how long a eternity is.

But the rest of them? Completely fine! Have at it, Tav, Astarion will not be standing in your way! He just needs a tiny bit of reassurance - hey, is this because I've not been putting out in a while? No? Fantastic, off you go - and then he's right as rain.

But, the thing is: That was an agreement. Astarion was involved in the decision and he was part of the conversation the entire time. So anything that did happen, happened entirely with his blessing and to his knowledge. That is how these agreements should work.

With Mizora, we aren't given that.

The cunt just whisks Tav away immediately to show them her nine hells and then she drops them off like nothing happened. There's no conversation about it, Astarion doesn't get to know until he sees Tav and Mizora or maybe until one of the other companions informs him of what just happened. (Probably Wyll, seeing as it's Mizora.)

I don't think it needs to be said, but that is cheating.

There's nothing we can do to justify this, especially not since it's rather obvious that Astarion isn't really against Tav getting frisky with other people. So there's no good reason for Tav going behind his back - not that there ever is - and it's just a plain dick move.

When I tell you, the first time I had this scene and noticed we didn't get to have a wee chat with him first? I was SWEATING so hard, because I thought 'hot damn, did I save before this!? When was the last time I fucking saved!? He's gonna leave me so hard and I fucking deserve it too!' and then he literally rocked up to us and was like: "Naw, you didn't ask me :( But it's okay, you're not just a snack. You're a whole damn meal babe, there's enough of you to go around."

Sweating was immediately over. It was not what I expected and I was really, really REALLY disappointed.

That was not how this is supposed to work. He wasn't supposed to be alright with this, because Tav treated him like shit. They didn't give a single shit about how he might feel and what his opinion may be, which is something he's already experienced for so many years. Tav disregarded him entirely for their own pleasure.

Anyone who's ever been in a working poly- or even just in a working open relationship will probably be able to tell you that communication is a huge part of what makes these relationships work. Openly talking BEFORE anything happens, coming to an agreement with all involved parties, regularly checking in with each other to see how things are progressing.

It also needs mutual respect.

Every party involved needs to respect their partners enough to NOT go against their agreements. Enough to listen to them and enough to be willing to compromise and respect the others boundaries.

And there needs to be SO MUCH trust.

It's not easy to be honest about wanting to share, wanting to be shared or even not wanting to share anymore. It's not always easy to believe your partner will respect your boundaries and will not do anything that you specifically asked them not to do. Voicing these things takes trust and confidence.

Tav literally shits on all three of these things. Respect is apparently a foreign concept, there is zero dialogue and they essentially break any trust there is for a single fuck in the hells.

By cheating with Mizora, Tav just shows Astarion that he isn't worthy of their consideration and that his opinions and feelings don't matter at all. And him accepting that with a smile is just him falling back into old habits.

He's back to taking shit he doesn't deserve just for the hell of it. It's the same thing he's done for years, the very same thing he's so desperate to escape.

The worst part is that he probably doesn't even notice it's the same thing, because, initially, it probably feels like it's just the same as all the other examples. He'll keep telling himself that Tav sleeping with Mizora is no different than Tav sleeping with the drow or Halsin. It's all the same.

But there'll likely always be that tiny voice in the back of his head going: "But is it really?"

Oh, and that voice? That voice breeds resentment. It's the only thing it's good at, the only thing it enjoys and it won't stop until he notices how fucked up this really is.

Astarion is no longer beneath anyone. He doesn't need to take shit anymore. He doesn't need to say yes and amen, he doesn't need to cower.

He's an equal in this relationship, but his reaction makes it abundantly clear that he himself has yet to realise it.

How have my thoughts changed now that his reaction has been adjusted?

Now, after reading through the dialogue you attached (thank you for that, btw! ♥️) and looking up a video...nice!

First: He voices his concearns and is honest with both himself and Tav about how this affected him. He admits that he may be disappointed, he admits he thought Tav was better than others and that he was very clearly wrong about it.

That takes guts, especially for people like Astarion who spent so long bowing their head to others whims and it's a huge sign of progress. Love it!

"As if you wouldn't have jumped at the chance. - Once, maybe, but things change - people change. Even if they never imagined they could."

Gold. Pure gold.

Self-reflection is lovely. He knows he's changed and maybe this situation just shows him how much.

"I thought I could trust you, which was no small thing. Now I'm not sure what to think."

This is SUCH a good line, because it's wonderfully ambiguous.

It shows both a healthy dose of self-reflection AND self-worth. On one hand, Astarion clearly knows that he's slow to trust people and that his trust has to be earned but, at the same time, it shows that, quite plainly, his trust is no small thing.

His trust is costly but it's a valuable thing, that Tav has now lost.

"And if anyone should believe in forgiving and forgetting, I should."

Haaa...I absolutely get what he means, but this is a dangerous line that I'm not sure I'd advise him to cross. It's something that does sometimes happen with certain clients and I don't think I've ever seen it yield good or pleasant results. This behaviour - the very lenient, very forgiving approach - is usually done to help manage guilt.

Clients who've done "bad things" can potentially become extremely lenient towards those they're close to because, in their mind, nothing can be as bad as what they've done and yet their loved ones forgave them. So they should forgive those little 'mistakes' just as readily, right?

No, obviously not, because receiving forgiveness doesn't relate to your acceptance of any future misdeeds. That is not what forgiveness means and anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't really forgiven you to begin with.

They just want something to excuse their own shitty behaviour.

His reaction doesn't necessarily have to mean he is going in this direction, of course. He may as well just realise that Tav is truly sorry...

"You can promise me the heavens, it doesn't change the choice you've already made. It was selfish. It was you not thinking about anyone but yourself and that's a feeling I know all too well."

The ABSOLUTE BLISS my inner social worker felt when she heard this line. The fucking catharsis.

Not only does he realise how shitty this choice was, no, he's also honest about it without giving two flying fucks about what happens.

That is not only brave, no, it shows that he knows he's in the right, which is a big thing for someone whose second name is 'Rationalisation'.

I think I mentioned it in another ask, but Astarion is someone who constantly feels the need to rationalise; to justify his own actions in basically any regard - the blood, the spawn, the ascension, cazador.

Every single time.

It's probably part of what kept him alive - keep quiet like a dead rat and if you can't, explain yourself so well and thoroughly that they won't hurt you. It works for misdeeds - which is mainly where we see him use it - but it works for emotions as well.

But this time, he doesn't. He doesn't justify his reaction, doesn't explain why he thinks the way he does. No, he hits Tav with the cold hard truth and nothing but that and it's so. good.

"I may not have the moral highground when it comes to betraying trust, but right now I see everything I've been trying to escape in you. Even I deserve better than this. We're done."

LOOK AT HIM FUCKING GOOOO! 🎉

First he realises and admits that yes, he's made mistakes and he's been a piece of shit too, which is great.

(I know I'm putting a lot of emphasis on self-reflection in this one, but he could do with a lot of that. Astarion is awfully unreflected in a lot of his behaviour at first and that is always detremental. We NEED to reflect on our own actions to see where we're wrong or maybe even where we're right.)

But, at the same time, he knows he doesn't have to take this. He doesn't have to take Tav's shit, because he's better than this. He deserves better and honestly? I've got nothing to add.

I love this, I wish this had been all he'd said and that is exactly the reaction he should've had.

To be entirely honest, I was a bit miffed that he still forgives Tav so easily - I get it, it's a game of choices, so obviously they'll give us an option to get Astarion to stay with us - but meh. Left a bad taste in my mouth.

But this last one? Perf. Absolutely fucking perfect and precisely the growth I like to see.

Puuh, that was a bit longer than I intented, I'm sorry! Let's just revise that, in the end, it's save to say that I do like the new reaction MUCH better.

Even the parts I personally don't agree with - namely any forgiveness for cheaters, because cheaters are loosers that don't deserve shit - I can respect, because he's still honest and reflected. He could probably reasonably explain the choice he made.

Not only can he explain it, no, it's a decision that very clearly costs him a little and he doesn't seem to make it all willy nilly.

That is enough. If it's a good choice or not doesn't matter that much, because mistakes and regret are a part of healing and growing. You can't avoid those.

Just being able to be honest about how he feels, how difficult this is and how Tav hurt him shows that he's starting to drop the habits that were tortured into him for so long and that is, in this part of the journey, absolutely enough.

Anyway, I hoped I answered your question and if not, feel free to let me know and I'll try again! Have a lovely day ♥️

Edit because I forgot to mention: My opinion regarding Astarion and poly-relationships as a whole remains unchanged, regardless of how he reacts to Mizora. Those two situations don't really sit on the same bracket, because one is an agreement and the other is a breach of trust.

So I still really do believe he's alright with them, as long as they're discussed!

[alteredsilicone]

The Dark Urge : Act I

A long ramble about my Dark Urge playthrough, split up between acts since this game gets meaty.

This is my third playthrough so more or less I knew what I was getting into (had some durge story bits spoiled too).

When I set out to play durge I also wanted to do an "evil" playthrough, so I set some goals: embrace the "big" durge decisions, be evil when possible without going full murder-hobo. Ally with Gortash, dominate the Brain. Make SH a Dark Justiciar, ascend Astarion, romance Minthara, push Gale towards Godhood and help Lae'zel stay loyal to Vlaakith. The results were... varied.

Recruiting Minthara meant the tieflings had to die, so I indulged the durge by watching Arabella die. Surprisingly this way the game guilt trips you less about doing bad things. (The guilt tripping aspect I will bring up at the very end, after my Act III retrospective)

I quickly learned why durge x Astarion is a popular ship - he really jumps on you from the very beginning, a total 180 to how he treats Tav. Anyways, he wasn't my romance goal so I let him be. For a while.

Alfira is one of my favorites, but she had to go. Sorry. I know there is an alternative by making a different NPC appear but I wanted an authentic(tm) durge experience. Besides, Alfira would die in the grove massacre anyways, two birds with one stone and all.

Dream Guardian interlude - I made her look like my first version of Viri, so it's a Viriception.

Since I'm collecting all the "evil" choices, I also decided to indulge the tadpoles. Partly for achievements, partly to see how it works. Truth be told I didn't use the tadpole skills too much, so if I replay durge (I might do for certain different story outcomes), I will ignore the tadpoles altogether.

Sceleritas Fel was an excellent addition, obviously I humored and indulged him since I wanted to be papa's most specialest murderer.

As I was allying with the goblins I explored some stuff I didn't previously - got shackled up by Gut. Escaping her was quite easy, just had to avoid her afterwards. Then I rushed to Minthara.

I love Minthara's character a lot - she stayed in my party throughout the whole game. Needless to say, but I killed Karlach for Wyll (and stupidly didn't get his armor because I forgot to put him in my party, oh well), Wyll left me when I attacked the Grove (I assume he died offscreen or I killed him without noticing) and I never even met Halsin so he also just died offscreen.

I could also rant about the whole "evil playthrough cuts you from 20% of the content" aspect, but that is a tired rant. I don't mind the grove massacre being the price you pay for Minthara joining your party (she IS an evil character, she straight up agrees with all evil actions together with Astarion and is totally on board with dominating the Absolute and becoming rulers yourself), I just wish there was some alternative with playing on the more evil side.

Maybe befriend goblins? More drow? Anything, really? Then again, BG3 is already a massive game... Oh well, you can't have everything.

Anyways, now that I have done the first big quest, I went to the Underdark to try out one specific thing:

What happens if you sacrifice Gale to the fish people before Elminster stabilizes the orb?

He aggros, you kill him and then after two in-game days this happens:

Needless to say, I reloaded a save and just humored the fish people without killing Gale. Besides, for a corruption arc he needs to live. This is also why I only indulged the "big" durge reactions...

My personal philosophy is that being a murder-hobo is a boring way to be evil (death is not the worst thing that can happen y'know), I much rather would corrupt characters.

However, another part of me got curious about one thing: if you bite off Gale's hand when you find him in the portal, can you present it at the murder tribunal in Act 3?

Anyways.

Remember I said Astarion really gets the hots for durge? So, Minthara leaves for Moonrise so she isn't in my party at the moment this happens... durge decided to have some "fun".

This sequence was very corny, but I know it's all part of Astarion's play-pretend so I just let it play out. Spoiler alert - I will friendzone him later (for his own good).

I decided to feed durge the Noblestalk to get some memories/lore. I hoped for more but probably getting everything back in Act I would be anti-climatic, so this was a nice tidbit all the same. Also the environment bugged out, I should be in a dark dank cave, not outside.

Gale also decided he likes me. I promptly friendzoned him. Trust me, Galey, you do not want a romantic adventure with this tiefling (also he is soulbound to Nila, my other Tav, can't have him cheating on his wife...).

Anyways, Gale is a funny case because Larian keeps mucking up his romance flags, I couldn't replay his romance scene with my actual Galemancer Tav, but the romance does trigger later in Act I when you farm some approval (so either in the Underdark or Creche, depending which path you go on). But it also bugs out (I had to long rest twice with my Tav as the first time it triggered tiefling party dialogue before promptly cutting out, probably a bug because it was an old save where the romance SHOULD have triggered during the party).

Anyways, moving on. I am jumping over some zones/quests because nothing particularly interesting happened (I helped the Myconids but I do that always so that's that, though I let Glut die while fighting the Duergar, not on purpose he just got felted, sorry big guy).

Siding with this guy has exactly zero payoff (Act II spoiler - Balthazar turns him into a zombie and that's that), which is another evil run gripe. He is like Minthara where you can convince him to go against the Absolute, but instead it just goes nowhere apparently.

I just sided with him and suffered through killing a bunch of gnomes and Duergar. Well, at least I got some new scenes.

Astarion flirting interlude:

I put this here because the durge evil face is just so funny. These two would make a disaster pair, but, alas, we in this house are women-loving-women.

So, remember me setting out to push Lae'zel towards loyalty to Vlaakith?

I went as far as to stab the Dream Guardian...

Obviously I should have known better, because the Guardian has plot-armor for obvious reasons. This game kinda sorta railroads you to go against Vlaakith/side with the Guardian. Otherwise the game would just end for obvious reasons... So I decided that I might just shelve Lae'zel along the way.

Maybe I should have made some other decisions in later acts (like killing Voss), but I had my companion-squad already with me, so I decided to let it go.

And that concludes a "brief" overview of durge Act I: