#and i'm getting obsessed with my catholic guilt son

[pastelrune]

it was only a sketch, how did it end up like this? it was only a sketch, it was only a sketch

anyway, a sketch of Ikaros got out of hand and now we're here. he's too pretty, and I want to see him bleed

Ikaros (He/They/Angel)

[transmutationisms]

could u talk more abt kendalls catholic martyr complex? or like specifically how the martyr complex relates to catholicism (i have no religious knowledge :p) thank u!

ok so the roys being catholic is mentioned like 3 times in passing and it is the most important thing to me. so first of all like, yes there are martyrs of basically any religious or political affiliation and it's not an exclusively catholic idea. but catholics have like, a specific fixation on bodily suffering, original sin, and persecution. i mean jesus is the archetypal martyr. he was obviously also a messiah, which plenty of martyrs were not (because catholics like, do this shit all the time... it's honestly so embarrassing). but the reason catholic churches have so much imagery of him bleeding out in his death throes on the crucifix is because catholics have this obsession with suffering and dying because you were right. like it's kind of camp honestly. protestants also love to suffer but in a different way that's more connected to ideas of like, bourgeois productivity rather than cutting to the chase like catholics and just being like "i'm going to purify and transcend my body by getting shot with 9 bazillion arrows representing the plague" or some shit. i love it.

anyway so kendall's whole thing with having jesus imagery is like, he configures himself as the noble rebellious son, who opposes the forces of evil, shows courage and commits to his crusade, and is ultimately willing to die for his cause. the irony of course being that he is not willing to die for real and he leaves doddy drowning in a pond and his suicide attempts are very passive (which logan like, sees as pathetic). but the way kendall perceives himself is very much as this martyred hero. knights on horseback and whatever. and this is connected to how he loves to suffer because he thinks it proves him right and that one day he will redeem himself (because the martyr situation is also deeply related to catholic guilt) and everyone will see how awesome he is and heed his words and stand around his dead body saying what a good special boy he was all along. like kendall would look up at the giant bleeding jesus on the cross contorted in pain with his loincloth carefully arranged to preserve his modesty and be like "i wish that was me". he seeks out ways to suffer because he thinks taking on this type of burden is what will redeem him, ultimately leading to his total destruction (death or psychic death, ie total loganification) because this sort of self-immolation is the only purpose he can conceive of for himself.

[yellowocaballero]

ok so im not very far into trigun (which. you convinced me to read/watch) but ive seen you talk about vash as a christ/messiah figure which. means im kinda obsessed with how you described his impact on the world in no name on the bullet (christ healing the lame, christ feeding the thousand... christ delivering his people from evil.) did you have any specific biblical references you kept in mind while writing?

i also think its super interesting how the fic seems to focus more heavily on healing as opposed to how (what ive seen of) trigun is a lot more gunman focused - is part of that influenced by how knives is a pacifist in a "cold turkey" way, or a choice on your part? i think it makes an interesting dichotomy, christ the gunman and satan the physician

I've gone my entire life without recommending Trigun to anybody, because I always felt it was too weird and ultra-violent and love-it-or-hate-it to actually ask people to watch it. Look at me now. Getting at least 3+ people into it. Boo boo the fool. Also I'm sorry that this response is so long skull emoji.

I'm ex-Catholic so you have asked the right question lol. Vash is very inspired by the Old Testament God. I have a strong mental image of him obsessing over the Noah's Arc story in his cute children's Bible. Sodom and Gomorrah is brought up again much later, in an extremely important way. Garden of Eden and Paradise, as the show does. The Plagues where every firstborn son dies. These is all imagery that Vash specifically evokes on purpose. Vash...uses the Bible to understand his own experiences and feelings and desires (that's the most neutral way to phrase it), but like a lot of people he uses the Bible/God partly as justification for his actions. God destroys cities for being sinful, and Vash is the closest thing to God this planet has, so he's entitled lol. God Complex McGee up in here.

And Vash's cult has no Jesus, because there is no forgiveness for humanity, and no way for them to be saved. Which is how you know that Vash's Jesus-ey actions as described in the story are very deceitful on a lot of different levels. Kind of like regular Vash lmfao - as I said earlier, he's VERY much also a messiah deconstruction. Vash is a pacifist partly because he needs it - he needs to be believed that people can be saved, that the world can be good, that nobody has to die, because otherwise the world is nothing but an endless parade of misery and death and his own suffering. It's about saving his own soul, and the memory of Rem.

For me, on a writing level: Cain and Abel, obviously. 'My brother's keeper'-ass mofo lmfao. It's more themes for me, though - redemption, salvation, forgiveness, original sin, sin in general, guilt, fate. Knives is pretty obsessed with all of these topics. I make fun of him for it. None of it's healthy. But Knives embodies a few other Christian ideals that I don't make fun of him for, such as the importance of good works and good actions, and dedicating his life towards helping others without the desire for a reward. There's also some subtle 'shepherd and his sheep' stuff going on later.

Re: the gunfights: can you IMAGINE Knives carrying a gun. He is WAY too proud of his own #biologicalsuperiority and #ultimatelifeform and #impenetrabledefense (literally Shadow AND Gaara-ass mofo) to rely on cheap human trinkets like guns lol.

The plot has more action than my usual (yay! - that was what I was working for lol), but it's based off the skeleton of the Stampede plot, which is genuinely a lot more space opera than Western and as such its action looks different. Turns out that when you remove the Gung Ho Guns from a story, there are a LOT LESS gunfights, lmfao (I don't know what kind of errands Vash sends the GHG out on, I am afraid to find out). So partly there's less gunfights because a) Stamp plots don't require too many gunfights, and b) without a Gunman (TM) there's no reason for the group to use guns to solve their problems if at all possible.

It's also just that, basically, Vash's plots are partly man vs self and partly man vs other. When a character is level 99, the tension of the fight scene isn't if they'll win the fight - it's if they'll win the fight under their self-imposed conditions. In Vash's case, the Q in every gunfight is 'can Vash win the fight and save people without compromising his principles?'. For Knives, he is so ridiculously OP that it's impossible to write a fight scene with genuine tension, and he doesn't care nearly as deeply about casualties. So the most engaging plotlines for Knives are entirely man vs self, which tends to shake out into a lot of trolley problems lol. That's the answer to your Q from a writing perspective.

So it's mostly a choice for plot/writing reasons. But YUP the dichotomy is SUPER JUICY, and the fun part of the story is reading the Ultimate Killing Machine be forced to do literally anything else than Ultimate Kill - to do the only thing he wasn't meant to do. Because doing what he was meant to do reduces him to a biblical figure instead of a person - it makes him just a devil, who's never exercised the free will God gave him, and as such can't be called sentient. It's not what Rem would want. And it's a very juicy juxtaposition to somebody who interprets his own meaning in life as a Christ figure as a divine compulsion to brutally murder orphan.

[sensoryseekinganakin]

9. what is your favorite fanfic for the fandom?

I always love finding out about people's favourite fics!!! Especially when I really like their meta and takes its like premium reading list

Hiiiii ❤️❤️❤️❤️

If you like what I have to say about Star Wars, I have a feeling you will already have read a lot of these, but I've sorted out the best of the best. Some of these do fit the meta I post, and some don't at all... my guilty pleasures. Please read the tags on all of them on AO3 before reading!

your body's broken, mine is bent by objectlesson (Anakin/Obi-Wan)

A story that starts when Anakin is very young detailing him realizing he can hurt himself for attention, and later allow Obi-Wan to fall into harms way to be allowed to touch him too. I love the description and secrecy and shame in this. It all builds up so perfectly to the climax of the story and is so finely crafted. This is the fic that tipped me over the edge to start writing obikin fics of my own, and now I get to be friends with the author! I'm also obsessed with her other fics waking up beside you I'm a loaded gun, Untouched, and make them new born believers when it comes to cultivating the perfect obikin dynamic. Do not even get my started on abnormal obikin dynamic (Master Anakin/Padawan Obi-Wan)

The Jedi Code by draculard (Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan, Anakin & Obi-Wan)

Obi-Wan was sexually abused by Qui-Gon, this story covers how it affected him and how it complicates his ability to be Anakin's master. I especially like the scenes in this of Padawan Obi-Wan trying and failing to get along with his fellow Padawans -- the relationship he has with his master sets him apart from them in such a humiliating way. The ending of this is also so intense and had a huge affect on how I interpret certain scenes in Star Wars/OWK. The same author has a similar fic called The Living Force, which I also love.

Penitentes Orate by Blaaake (Anakin/Obi-Wan)

A very sexy AU that I think about all the time -- Medieval Catholic monk Obi-Wan being manipulated by Anakin, who justifies that sex with him brings them both closer to God. I love all of the little details in this AU and the language in it is so so so good. Anakin is sixteen, of course. Obi-Wan having Catholic guilt goes exactly how one would imagine. This is another author that I'm so happy and so stunned that I get to be friends with! I also adore her non-AU fics Into the Fire and The Long Game. The perfect amount of guilt and OCD for Obi-Wan.

who do we call at the edge of night by hidden_humours (Anakin/Obi-Wan)

I read the first chapter of this at a crucial stage in the formation of my obikin dynamic. Anakin is such a little question asker in this, constantly manipulating and badgering Obi-Wan for more and more and more. Obi-Wan tries to hard to keep an appropriate professional relationship with his padawan, but Anakin is someone who tries to take what he wants and thinks he deserves it, on his seventeenth birthday no less!

What Tears Me Apart by mashimero (Anakin/Obi-Wan)

This is a short one, but very good. Anakin asleep next to Obi-Wan and rutting against him, Obi-Wan having feelings about it, and feelings about his feelings.

should you need to come undone by zaecula (Anakin/Obi-Wan)

Another fic that I read really early on in my obikin writing journey, and this one is bottom Anakin. Anakin is manipulative and ignores boundaries in it, which I love. Obi-Wan has been masturbating to the thought of Anakin since before he was willing to admit to himself what he was thinking, and he feels guilty about it. Of course Anakin eats it up.

like what i like by blahzarry (Anakin/Obi-Wan)

This is so outside of the dynamic/characterizations I ever write, but so sexy to me. Obi-Wan and Anakin have a weird brother/father/son relationship, but they talk about sex and they're like... womanizers together, for lack of a better word. I love to see Master/Padawan as titles being used in a BDSM way in universe, which is a big part of what this fic does for me. I love that they both have no boundaries in this, because you almost never get to see Obi-Wan let loose in such a way.

Sacred Things by LuvEwan (Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan)

Qui-Gon takes advantage of Obi-Wan in this fic, and he knows it. Obi-Wan wants him and Qui-Gon is unable to deny himself, even though he knows it's wrong. I'm not used to seeing/thinking about Qui-Gon guilt, so it's really interesting to imagine that he might have moments like this. And it's sexy.

Fifty Shades by RexIsMyCopilot (Anakin/Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon/Anakin)

This series and it's counterpart Three's Company are probably the furthest from my regular obikin dynamic that you could get, and yet, I await each update with bated breath. It's really interesting to see the universe that this author has built and all of the moving pieces in it. Above all else, it's sexy, what can I say? This is another person that I've had the pleasure of talking to on discord, and that makes me even more interested in these fics to see the community surrounding them. It's also fun to see how people with different characterizations of these characters still agree on lots of details, Anakin has autism in these fics. My favorite RexIsMyCopilot fic outside of those AUs is when things go wrong, don't go with them, because it tickles such a specific obsession (fetish) of mine.

Sticky by NightshadeSmoothie (Anakin/Palpatine)

Anakin with strange specific fetishes -- YESSS (described as erotic fascinations in the fic)!!! This fic does such a good job of exploring Palpatine singling out Anakin and indulging him to keep him close, basically grooming him. Anakin wants to possess and rip apart and debauch everything he loves, and Palpatine encourages it. He's the only real non-Jedi influence in his life, and he's bent on indulging him in ways the Jedi won't allow. I found this story while searching for specific fetish content, but it's greater than I could have ever imagined.

Die Happy by fatanakin (Anakin/Ferus)

This is the last one on the list because it's so out there, but it has to be included as one of my favorite fics because... well... it is. There are aspects of the kink in this that I don't normally enjoy, but that make sense in this fic because it's Anakin. He takes everything further than anyone else would, to the point of absurdity, there's no reason he wouldn't here, too. It does a very good job of capturing being very young and fixated on certain fetish aspects, which I think is something that will stick with Anakin for life. And, of course, I love it because it scratches a specific itch for me.

[lyxthen-reblogs]

Hi! I was raised catholic and while I am now an atheist, I still participate in a lot of catholic-y stuff. I guess the denomination would be Mexican catholic, since I'm Mexican.

How Catholicism is different from other branches:

It's fun. I often find myself surprised of how much other branches of Christianity shun anything that is fun. Catholics drink and eat and dance and they party hard.

Universality as well as diversity. As prev said, a Catholic may feel welcome in any church they go to, but Catholic practices are actually very diverse. Each region has their own festivities, where I am from, we celebrate "La Samaritana," a holiday in which people give away sweet drinks and ice cream for free to celebrate that time a Samaritan woman gave Jesus water from her well. Many other regions have their own hyperspecific holidays.

The importance of the Virgin Mary. She is like, the BIG one in my opinion. Sure, Jesus is the son of God and he will always be at the center, but who sends the son of God to do the dishes, hm? Who tells the son of God to go to sleep at bedtime? Who tells him to eat his vegetables? That's Mary.

An emphasis on the tangible. While other churches may focus exclusively on spirituality, Catholicism is really concerned with things. Jewelry, clothes, places of worship, relics, stamps, the whole "blood and body of Christ" thing. The connection between God and the world is a material one, not just a spiritual one.

Heresy. Lots of catholics do things the Church doesn't necessarily endorse. This is fine. They still consider themselves Catholic. Folk practices are super important to a lot of communities, and I've met a few Catholic witches and Santeros. I can promise you there are Catholics out there that unironically pray to Goku and Maradona, I am not met them but they must exist. This is a thing.

Things that feel catholic or catholic-coded:

Anything to do with vampires.

Guilt and confessions. Every time I see a character "seeking atonement" I'm like HAH. CATHOLIC. On the same vein, absolution and forgiveness. An embracing, to a degree, of moral impurity, recognizing that humans can't be morally perfect and that is okay as long as we try.

Homoerotic devotion. I'm not saying all gay sex is Catholic, that would be absurd. I'm talking about the "It's rotten work" and "Not to me. Not if it's you," variety of homoeroticism specifically, the "going to insane lengths to save you" ordeal. Your Homura Akemis and Samwise Gamgees of the world. Brands of gayness that are not Catholic include, but aren't limited to: Homoerotic obsession, forbidden romance, mind games, it's not gay if we do it with the socks on, etc. As prev said, acts of service as a way to show love.

Pipe organs and bells.

Skulls.

Bureaucracy. Catholicism is basically if religion had bureaucracy. Like, "no, sorry, you can't go directly to God for that. You have to put your request for a plentiful harvest for review through the agricultural department. Yeah, Saint Isidore is in charge of that one. I'm sorry, it's really not up to me." This is true for other aspects of the religion as well. When you get baptized, or any other sacrament, you get a written certificate. A small change in wording accidentally made a whole lot of baptisms suddenly invalid. Catholicism has honest to God (heh) legal loopholes. Faustian bargains are so very Catholic because of course the devil will have you sign a legal contract before taking your soul.

There are other things I could add but there are the main ones for me, at least.

Calling All Catholics!

Weird thing for a Jew to post I know I know but hear me out here.

I would like to hear from Catholics (current and ex/raised),

what do you feel separates your religion from others (both other sects of Christianity and other religions as a whole? what feels unique or specific to you/your culture/your beliefs/your church? this can be theological beliefs, practices, or even aesthetics

what things feel "inherently Catholic" or "Catholic coded" to you?

if you don't mind, would you also include what subset of Catholicism you are/were raised in (Roman, Byzantine, Irish, Opus Dei, etc)?

As you may have guessed, this is for research, and I personally only have experience with Roman Catholicism (and limited experience at that, more cultural than truly religious). I would love to hear from a larger subset of people. My family is extremely Italian Catholic but that's just one very specific version, and I don't have much/any experience with any others. I'm curious to see what the common ground is.

Reblogs/signal boosts are appreciated as I doubt I have like a SUPER broad Catholic following myself lol!

[janiedean]

Hey! I had never listened to Bruce Springfield before seen your analysis of Born in the USA and Youngstown, but I really liked them! Now I'm curious, but lazy, so I'm here to get more. *clears her throat* You are... a bad person? Yeah, that. I dislike you. This is anon hate. It's not an anon, technically, but you know in your heart that it is bc symbolism. Or something. Give me more Bruce? Please. I mean, YOU'RE EVIL. (But please?)

first thing: here, once I gave an anon the run-down on how to get into springsteen. you can refer to that post for in-dept ways of getting into bruce. u__u

other than that, I’ll take your anon hate (u really put effort in it hm ;) ) and raise you another rant let me see what I can do for you, since I have another anon in your same predicament I can give another political song to I can give you my to-go SONG ABOUT THEON GREYJOY AND HIS FATHER shuddup guys it is.

so:

PLS BE INTRODUCED TO ADAM RAISED A CAIN.

Adam Raised a Cain is the second song from Bruce’s fourth album Darkness on the Edge of Town from 1978, follow-up to Born to Run and way more grim than that but if I went into the reasons why Darkness was more grim we’d be here until next month so tldr, Bruce was having a fairly shitty time in his life back then and was working through issues and he’s always had a fairly shitty relationship with his father than he managed to mend before the guy died but in ‘78 he was Working Through His Issues and it shows, so that’s the context you need.

Now, on to the lyrics which are actually an excellent case of What Makes Springsteen Lyrics Tick.

In the summer that I was baptized, My father held me to his side, As they put me to the water, He said how on that day I cried. We were prisoners of love, a love in chains, He was standin’ in the door, I was standin’ in the rain, with the same hot blood burning in our veins, Adam raised a Cain.

Now, first thing not usual about this song: it doesn’t really have a refrain which is not repeating (sorta obsessively) Adam Raised a Cain which only makes the song darker and more anxiety-inducing because it’s not really structured like a typical rock song - no bridge, no refrain.

Then, we’re immediately hit in the face with the catholic imagery which will to you make sense when I tell you that Bruce is one of those infamous lapsed catholics who had Issues with growing up in it. Anyway: ‘in the summer I was baptized’ immediately throws you into the action because you know when the whole thing started (when he was baptized ie when he was a newborn most likely), my father held me to his side, so he was near his father who has him close (as it should be) but he saw how on that day I cried, which already gives us a clear inkling that a) baptism = tears, b) tears = suffering, c) his father = his baptism.

Which is then immediately linked to the immediately below sentence: we were prisoners of love, a love in chains, which suggests us that while they love each other their relationship is frayed and toxic and mutually not good, because they’re prisoners (negative) of a love in chains which they can’t get obviously out of - chains means you cannot get away even if you want to, so they obviously feel stuck with each other for how much they might love each other. 

Then we have a short but effective contrast with the first image of his father standing in the door (inside his home) while he is standing in the rain (outside the house, so he doesn’t feel welcome) with the same hot blood running in their veins as in they are related and they’re both too similar to not clash (HOT blood).

And then we have the main biblical image linking back to the catholicism and the entire refrain of the thing - adam raised a cain. As in: we all know the biblical story - Adam is the first man, Cain is his firstborn who then kills his brother Abel out of jealousy and gets cast out by God with a sign on his head and a curse on his shoulders, but while usually when telling the story it’s all about Cain’s faults and jealousy, not about who raised him. In this case it’s obvious that the moral of the story is that Cain turned out like that but Adam was the one who raised him so he also had a part in it. So we have a title which is all about the father/son relationship in which the son turns out bad (according to Moral) but the father is also the responsible, and the fact that it’s always, sorta obsessively repeated throughout the entire thing only drives the point home.

Onward:

All of the old faces, Ask you why you’re back, They fit you with position, And the keys to your daddy’s Cadillac, In the darkness of your room, Your mother calls you by your true name, You remember the faces, the places, the names, You know it’s never over, it’s relentless as the rain, Adam raised a Cain.

Here we have: old faces (people from the old town), asking him why he even came in the first place before fitting him with position and keys to daddy’s Cadillac which means that regardless of everything he’s expected to behave just like his father even if he doesn’t want to and if their relationship is toxic and they want different things, but again you can’t get away from the expectations which in turns makes the entire thing even more toxic and nightmare-ish.

And that gets said even clearer in the following: ‘in the darkness of your room’ (darkness = negative, your room = his old room when he was a kid so someplace he should feel safe in, called by his mother = the person he should feel safer with/the parent he had a good relationship with) your mother calls you by your true name (as I said in the previous note) and he remembers the faces/places/names ie everything that belongs to his childhood and he can’t get away from because it’s never over, relentless as the rain and he feels like it’s a endless vicious circle he can’t break - and adam raised a cain, AGAIN. Like, it all goes back again to the relationship with his father that he can’t fix.

In the Bible Cain slew Abel And East of Eden he was cast, You’re born into this life paying, for the sins of somebody else’s past, Daddy worked his whole life, for nothing but the pain, Now he walks these empty rooms, looking for something to blame, You inherit the sins, you inherit the flames, Adam raised a Cain.

And here we open up the big guns because:

first he explains in two lines his whole Bible metaphor if someone hadn’t caught up to it yet (in the bible cain slew abel and east of eden he was cast);

and then links it to his own relationship with his father with you’re born into this life paying for sins of somebody’s else’s past which is actually one of the Things Not Really That Great About That Mentality Of Saying People Should Pay For Their Ancestor’s Sins: he’s calling out the fact that same as cain paid for his father’s original sin he has to pay for his father’s or he has to feel guilty for his family’s or his father’s and that he has to espiate them even if he has absolutely nothing to do with that. And it’s not a thing he has a choice about - he’s born into it differently from having had a choice about it. Which is incidentally one of those most horrible things about calvinism ever but this is for another time;

but then as we assume he might want to talk shit about his father, he goes with daddy (endearing term, not my father from the first stanza) worked his whole life for nothing but the pain (so he recognizes that his father worked his ass off his entire life just to get suffering in return so his bad/toxic behavior is also tied to a cycle of suffering he was thrown into most likely because he also had to pay for somebody’s else’s sins);

and now he walks these empty rooms looking for something to blame, so he wants something to blame all of that suffering on/to something so he can figure it out but he can’t and he does it in a useless way ie walking empty rooms;

again, you inherit the sins, you inherit the flames - you’re born with the sins and the flames which = hell = damnation, going back into the whole imagery of catholic guilt (if you can’t expiate your sins you’re going to hell) that is pushed on him since the day he was baptized.

tldr: in the last part he ties the catholic guilt we had in the beginning and links it to the injustice of having to bear expectations from everyone else that you don’t want to shoulder (spoilers: bruce’s dad was not too much in favor of him becoming a singer and it probably shows) and points out how it all ties together in a mess of guilt, resentment and ruined relationships.

And in the end, we could be done here, but:

Lost but not forgotten, from the dark heart of a dream, Adam raised a Cain

This is just one line basically before the last (repeated) Adam/Cain line, but it’s incredibly poetic and evocative because adam is lost (you don’t know he’s there) but not forgotten (you can never forget about him even if you want to) and he jumps up from the dark heart of a dream which is like…. very creepy and evocative and haunting because it suggests a dark place in yourself (a dream) where you feel most vulnerable and it always strikes there and never leaves you alone, and this entire thing does not reach a positive conclusion actually it’s an extremely angsty, angry song that was obviously Working Issues Out (he didn’t until the eighties) but which is extremely relatable because I mean I had a good relationship with my parents and I might have found it relatable once or twice I can’t imagine people who actually have a bad one or are lapsed catholics and such on.

Also it’s totally relatable to theon in acok and I stand by my case. ;)