#and i think of byler every single time

[love-byers]

....wait . there are people who don't think the show is centered around will? there are people who don't think a core part of s5 will be wills culmination as a character?? there are people who don't think the entire supernatural plot will circle back to will???

besides the fact that the duffers LITERALLY CONFIRMED that will is the center of s5...

the show itself literally tells you. that is the narrative they've been pushing the entire time.

the entire first season is about finding will. every single plotline is connected to finding will.

mike and the boys are using el to find will

jonathan and nancy are working together to hunt the monster they believe has taken will and barb

joyce is trying to communicate with will to find out where he is and how to save him

hopper is a cop investigating the case, and eventually he and joyce team up to investigate further into the lab conspiracy, believing it's tied to wills disappearance

a massive chunk of s2 is about wills connection to the upside down. he's being hunted by the mind flayer and used as a spy, causing a lot of the conflict but also leading to the resolution.

now that we know vecna was behind all of that, that open so many doors for will in s5. if you use your fucking peanut brain for 5 seconds you'll realize there are lots of things we don't know surrounding will and vecna that will come to light in s5. vecna specifically sought will out and hunted him down. remember s2?

"It wanted to kill you?"

"Not me. Everyone else."

we're also getting flashbacks of will in the upside down so we can see exactly what happened to him the week he was there. clearly there's something important we don't know about. the upside down is literally frozen on the day will went missing. but will isn't important and won't be a big part of s5?

s3 is the first time will is less significant to the plot. he still has the connection to the mind flayer and his ability to sense it is still relevant to the story and helps push it along. bit still, he had significantly less lines and screen time. much of his story is portrayed as him struggling to 'grow up' and not being interested in romance like the others. there are several jokes that present will as simply being childish and reluctant to grow out of it. which a lot of people found sort of annoying. i remember seeing a lot of people enjoying s3, but wishing will had more depth and importance.

but we now know that that's not the whole truth. all of that, him being annoyed and disinterested by romance, just wanting to play dnd with the party, and fighting with mike was all subtext leading into his sexuality and the fact that he's in love with mike. that's been confirmed by actors and the duffers themselves. though will's sexuality was always hinted at, it wasn't meant to fully come to light until s4. so they tried to pass it off as will just being childish. they tried to pass of mike and wills conflict as only being about dnd and growing up. a prime example of this is will tearing down castle byers after his fight with mike. he rips the photo of the core 4 as the ghostbusters down the middle, aka where he and mike are in the center. that is easily passed off as just being about the friend group. people BELIEVED that it was just about the friend group, and that there was no way will was in love with mike. but it's now literally confirmed that he is. like it's insane how many people never even considered that as a possibility. people literally just tune out parts of the show they don't immediately find interesting. i've seen so many comments on byler scenes, for example "it's not my fault you don't like girls", saying "wait i don't remember this scene when did he say that??" people just don't pay attention or think deeper than surface level, which in this case is okay because wills sexuality was meant to be something you slowly realized. the problem comes when people just start denying its significance and refusing to see it for what it is.

if you take in all of will's story with mike and whittle it down to "stupid gay crush on best friend" i don't know what show YOUVE been watching. did you forget that will only remembered his mom and mike when he was possessed and lost his memory? that mike recounting the day they met was enough for will to break through and communicate while possessed? that will puts mikes happiness before his own? that will has literally said he needs mike and always will?

it's not a crush that will can just get over. you know we actually have an example of a simple crush and it's dustin and max. how did that work out? dustin got over max very quickly and it's no biggie. he didn't go on a monologue about how he needs max and always will. he just thought she was cool and pretty.

also, the show spends so much time getting the audience to feel bad for will and want to see him happy. you are SUPPOSED to like him. you are supposed to have empathy for him. will is written to be extremely gentle, kind, and selfless.

will is too nice to say anything bad about anyone, even after being viscously bullied and called slurs for years. even by his own father, WHO HE STILL CANT TALK BAD ABOUT!!!

no matter how much will suffers, he remains kind and selfless. he gave a girl his tonka truck knowing joyce couldn't by him another one. mike says they shouldn't give up on looking for him because will sacrificed himself in dnd to save the party. remember the whole thing in s2 about joyce getting on will for constantly apologizing even when he did nothing wrong? there is no point to that besides evoking empathy for him!!!!! he is sweet and sensitive and doesn't deserve any of this!!!!!!!!

and about bylers being delusional for thinking will and mikes relationship will be a big part of s5 and the culmination of everything in a show about monsters killing people, here's a quote from shawn levy, who has directed many stranger things episodes

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

everyone loves the stranger things relationships until they're queer. when they're queer suddenly there's no time for romance in a sci fi show, the writers actually suck, and they're just baiting. lumax and their love for each other was a core plot of the season where the big bad was trying to kill her all season. there is an entire plot point about max's memory of kissing lucas at the snow ball saving her life. in a show like this, there is time for relationships and supernatural stuff because they are interwoven when the time comes. they can do the exact same thing with byler in s5. s5 is going to be the longest season thus far. there will definitely be time for relationship development.

so yeah. call me delusional but i don't think the show will end with wills feelings for mike unresolved or with them just evaporating. given everything we know about s5 (relationships and finding belonging being an important factor, noah and finn constantly filming together, leakers saying will has a love interest) and everything we already know about the relationship formulas in ST, literally all the signs are pointing to byler. the only rebuttal people have is calling us delusional because the writers just wouldn't do that. if you actually push past the heteronormativity and consider the fact that the duffers do want to represent queer people in a way that doesn't reinforce the idea that we can never find love or be happy, things will start making a lot more sense.

i'm sorry to have to say this about mike but mike is a character presumed straight who hasn't been super relevant in the supernatural plot for 2 seasons now, just as long as will. his significant plot points are related to el or will. relationship development. and unlike will, he has been an ACTUAL asshole!!!! lots of people stopped liking mike as much after s2 because of his personality change. (ofc i still love mike, but there's been multiple plot lines about mike being a dick for no reason and apologizing for it) but no one has VISCERAL hatred for him like they do will byers. not saying mike deserves hate, cause he certainly doesn't, but the problems people have with will, they only have with will. any other character doing it is fine. 2 seaons of wills feelings for mike is boring and distracting but 2 seasons of mike having the same 'i love you' problems with el isn't?

i'm not saying the sudden hate for will is because it's now clear that he's gay but im kind of saying it

some people can't sympathize with queer issues because they don't care about queer people. they don't empathize with queer people. queer issues bore them.

will byers i will ALWAYS defend you. you are safe with me pookie

[miwiheroes]

Bylers, we need to talk about something…

I’ve been having a lot of thoughts pertaining to what will happen in season 5 relating to byler recently, as have we all, but I’ve also been wondering about the audience’s reaction to it if it happens.

Actually, i’ve been more concerned not about the GA’s reaction, but our reaction to how they handle it. I just want to say beforehand, that I might be projecting my issues with negativity and conflict (i’m a very very optimistic person it’s rough being on social media these days lmao) and I also very much believe that they will make byler canon in some way or another. It just makes sense with the narrative. But I fear we will never be happy with how they do it and we never learn from our previous mistakes lmao

Before season 4 came out, I sort of was a fan of byler, but i was very very casual, as in I didn’t interact with many fan theories, I wasn’t on twitter (still not on there because I have a phobia of negativity eek) and I wasn’t on tumblr, I would occasionally check out the edits and fanarts and I think I was just Aware of it, because I always root for the gay ship to happen ofc..

So when season 4 vol. 1 came out I was excited about the direction they were taking byler, and I could see that it was finally canon that Will was gay, rather than theorised. When season 4 vol. 2 came out, I had not been on sttwt or st tumblr during the time between the volumes because I had other fandoms prioritised around the time. I watched the Van Scene with my parents and suddenly I was acutely aware of just how gay they were (because I always get scared of watching anything queercoded around my parents lmao).

By the end of season 4, I was like YES! this season was amazing for a byler set up next season, although i was more focused on other characters too. I then kind of saw the byler script stuff but not the full extent of it, and I saw many edits and fanarts of them but that was it!

Now it’s 2024 and I have a major hyperfixation on byler, (due to the season 5 bts and the fact stranger things keeps popping up on my fyp it’s crazy) and now I’m on byler tumblr (not twt tho .. sorry) to find all the evidence I can and get all hyped up for s5! But I’ve also seen old posts from around 2022…

Literally every single one was extremely disappointed from season 4 vol. 2, and I was confused, seeing as I was very happy with it and I liked byler (my fave byler scene is from vol. 2 and no it’s not the van scene). If I’m being totally honest, and I might get some hate for this, I think we all had wildly, wildly high expectations and the disappointment was our own doing.

I personally never really judge a show before it’s finished (obviously not sitcoms and shows like that) unless it has really really terrible writing ofc, but I always choose to reserve judgement until all the character arcs are wrapped up and I can look back and see why things were made to be.

I understand the whole anger with Mike’s behaviour towards Will and how Will was treated poorly by him, but isn’t that the point? Mike loving Will back in season 5 would then be more satisfying after all that. It’s a set-up for the next season, no?

I don’t know why or how people thought that Mike would suddenly resolve all his internalised homophobia or something during that season, and I reckon if the whole season had come out at once instead of two volumes (i hate the two volumes thing sm omg) people would have been much happier because we wouldn’t have had time to create insane theories or unrealistic expectations that, let’s be real, were not in line with what we have seen so far with byler.

So, I just want to say that I’m a little afraid for season 5, because I know that byler will likely be canon, but people just won’t be happy because it won’t be in the exact way that they had theorised. Sorry to break it to you, but you, random person on tumblr, are not a screen writer. More specifically, you’re not a screen writer for stranger things.

I think it’s fun to theorise at the moment, but I just want to remind people that this pattern has happened before and we never learn? Like, none of our theories are coming true. Not one of them. Did I theorise the exact van scene? Did I theorise the part at the end where Mike grabs Will’s shoulder? No. But am I happy with those scenes? Hell yeah.

So on the build up to season 5, I just want to caution everyone to not assume that specific things are going to happen when it’s just a result of an echochamber (such as the milkvan breakup scene being right at the beginning or the painting being brought up). You’ll just be angry for no good reason.

The only reasons I’m personally going to be angry with how they handle byler is:

1. If it’s not canon and Will’s love goes unrequited/ he has another love interest somehow…

2. If either of them die after having a relationship during season 5 (bury your gays is stUPID)

3. If one of them dies before the other gets to tell them they love them/ kiss

4. If they get together without Mike apologising (it could be in literally any way, obvious or not) for his poor behaviour.

But that’s it, the rest of it is literally up to them.

Hope ur not too mad, but it just needed to be said.

[strangelysilver]

One of the reasons byler was so easily able to hook me in s4 is because I never particularly liked mlvn.

This actually isn't a mlvn thing, it's a media thing. I've watched so many shows and movies at this point where the main het couple is just... disappointing. Dry? No chemistry? I don't know, I just know that I've had one too many experiences thinking that the development of a romantic relationship ruined the friendship between two characters. Bonus points if one of the main characters had a borderline homoerotic situationship-esque relationship with their bestie, rival, or enemy.

Honestly, when I realized in season 1 that mlvn going to go canon, I was just vaguely disappointed. I felt like there wasn't enough build-up, and that it felt kind of cheap. This lab girl gets into a relationship with the first guy to show her kindness? Fine, but up until that point I'd been enjoying the writing otherwise. I figured, though, that it was just your typical "he was a boy, she was a girl, can I make it anymore obvious?" relationship.

But then I kept watching, and they gave me lumax and jancy. Neither felt rushed, or unnecessary, or like the writers were forcing chemistry where it wasn't. I chalked it up to "side romance > main romance" because I've had that happen before. Whatever.

Listen, I like to think that I have decent media comprehension. I can read subtext. I love subtext. I've just been disappointed pretty much always, so I've learned to just cope with mediocre main romances.

But then... s4. And the airport half-hug, and the Rink-o-Mania scene, and painting, and literally every single time the two of them looked at each other ever. Honestly, I was shocked. I'd picked up on byler things in the previous seasons, but s4 was the first time I'd felt like I was watching something with the potential to be real.

When I looked it up on tumblr and started reading some of the amazing analyses that people have put out, it was too enticing to resist. If byler were to happen, it would mean that all of the dissatisfaction I'd felt around the introduction of mlvn was intentional, or at least somewhat planned.

It's basically the gratification for every single time I've ever looked at a canon pairing in a popular piece of media and thought that a different ship would have elevated the entire thing. Byler is that for me. I desperately want this to finally happen, guys.

[the-strangest-heart]

every time byler trends for No Reason, i get excited bc i think we got new content . . . nope we all just got simultaneously sad for No Reason, and it surprises me every. single. time.

[nikolai-vincent]

I'm gonna need some of you guys to take a step back and realize that just because you want byler to be canon in s5 (I do too), not everything we get about the filming progress has to do with byler. The show is more than just byler. I feel like some of you guys are setting yourself up for disappointment and I mean that in the nicest way possible, I'm not trying to sound rude. It's cool to have fun and theorize about your ship but when you go around believing every single thing has to do with byler and then getting upset when it turns out to be a lie, it's gonna suck (believe me it happened to me during s4). Idk I just feel like some people should take a step back and try to think more logically about the show as a whole and not just a relationship.

Edit: I just wanna clarify that I'm not saying you guys are delusional in having theories, I love reading all the theories and sometimes coming up with my own, but I mainly mean that any time we have news, everybody wants to make it about byler (at least posts that I've seen) or if there's a "leak" people immediately believe it even though it later turns out to be false, I just don't want you guys to upset yourself with all of the ideas you expect to happen when there's so much more in the show that needs to come to a close that doesn't involve relationships

[gayofthefae]

We've established that via how they shoot reaction shots and blocking, not to mention billboards and posters, Mike and Will are a "duo" in the show. Now, this isn't inherently romantic, Steve and Robin are one too.

But I'm just saying it's a little unorthodox to have a "duo" where one party has a love interest that's another main character who is not in any other "duo".

So let's go through platonic duos we've had, shall we?

Steve and Robin: Vickie is not a main character and Steve's love interests fluctuate. It also of note that this duo even poked fun at the pattern of duo = romance in season 3, self-awarely.

Steve and Dustin: Dustin is interested in Max, but she's a duo with Lucas and not his main love interest. Suzie is an occasional guest star and Steve's love interests fluctuate.

Dustin and Erica: Erica has no love interest and Suzie is an occasional guest star.

Joyce and Murray: the only reason for this pairing is lack of access to Joyce's usual other half, her love interest.

but then

Mike and El: They are paired because they are love interests in season 1: a classic case of Byler Mlvn parallels where to deny Byler is to deny Mlvn.

Mike and Will: hm, but I thought his love interest was El? She has no other pairings, she's completely independent from him in her storyline in season 4 and season 2

See Mike is a special case, because he alternates pairings, as he is the only true love triangle in the full show (all other being one season or the closest case: season 1 and season 4, unmaintained between). He is consistently torn throughout so his screen time is shown that way.

But we can see the camera work. And we can see the marketing. The marketing chooses sides for us.

Here are promotional posters from seasons where Mike and El were more of a "duo":

(I could not find anybody. They literally market Byler or nothing. I thought I found some but then found out they were cropped)

Anyways duos can be platonic, but not if you another main character are exclusive love interests. Lucas and Max are a duo, Joyce and Hopper are a duo, Jonathan and Nancy are a duo. Dustin, Steve, Robin, Erica, and Murray lack love interests, their love interests change frequently, or their love interests are not main characters.

Those are the only cases. They want you to associate love interests together. They want you to think as couple as, quite literal to the definition of "two", a couple.

And they want people who've seen the show, when they think Joyce to think Hopper, when they think Nancy to think Jonathan, when they think Max to think Lucas, and when they think Mike to think Will

and when they think El, to think badass independence. (or Eggos)

And that's what we've seen happen time and time again. Posters of all the couples, the same true of blocking, occasionally El joins Mike and Will on one, but otherwise she is shown alone.

Joyce and Hopper have a season 4 poster together and they're separated fighting to get back to each other, so physical location isn't what's keeping it off the table.

Spot the difference?

Joyce spent the season with Murray, but she's still officially a duo with Hopper. And screentime aside, Mike spent season 3 with El, but was still officially blocked, shot and marketed as a duo with Will.

Every single main couple, babes. Every one.

[alcalystrasz]

I just made a HUGE discovery for a possible song featured in Stranger Things 5 for BYLER, PLEASE hear me out 😭

This song, is called "Bizarre Love Triangle" and guess when it was released...

In November 1986 (the year of S4 + the possible month S5 is settled). I'M CRYING.

This song, talks about a Love Triangle. It is gender neutral, so we can totally interpret it the way we want, so here's mine:

The love triangle is obviously Mike - Will - Eleven. Now why bizarre? Because it is not two boys in love with the same girl, but one boy and one girl in love with the same boy, and that boy not sure if he likes the girl or the boy...

Let's see the lyrics shall we?

FIRST VERSE:

Every time I think of you

I feel shot right through with a bolt of blue

It's no problem of mine, but it's a problem I find

Livin' a life that I can't leave behind

There's no sense in telling me

The wisdom of the fool won't set you free

But that's the way that it goes and it's what nobody knows

Well, every day my confusion grows

———

Now, let's analyse these lyrics with Will's pov...

Every time I think of you = Mike

I feel shot right through with a bolt of blue = the color of Mike. Every single time he thinks about Mike, it feels like being shot, maybe in the heart.

It's no problem of mine, but it's a problem I find = meaning that for him, it isn't a problem of liking Mike, but it's a problem overall for society or for everyone else (their friends, families...)

Livin' a life that I can't leave behind = he can't forget Mike so he lives the life he's currently living because he can't leave it behind, leave Mike behind. He's too attached to him, to leave him.

There's no sense in telling me

The wisdom of the fool won't set you free = Will is known as the wise one of the group, and also the fool (= doesn't like girls, is childish, is gay). Meaning that his own wisdom won't set Mike free (probably of the fake person he's being, the fake relationship he has with El).

But that's the way that it goes and it's what nobody knows = It's the way things are, Will likes him but Mike is trying to act straight and nobody knows that, nobody knows they're struggling.

Well, every day my confusion grows = this sentence can feel like a response to what Will has "said" before. He says all those things, and Mike answers this. His confusion of liking Will grows every day. He feels confused if he actually likes El or not and if not, if he likes Will.

———

So with this first verse, things are set that Will loves Mike but he's too detached from that, too confused about who he loves and what he should do. Now, let's see the chorus:

CHORUS

Every time I see you falling

I get down on my knees and pray

I'm waiting for that final moment

You say the words that I can't say

———

It seems like the chorus can be perceived as Mike's pov. Let's see how the analysis works out here:

Every time I see you falling = every time Will is on the bottom, like with his feelings, when he feels at the bottom (= sad).

I get down on my knees and pray = can be a reference to the fact that Mike's family are conservatives, and religious. Although we've never seen them pray or anything, they're the cliché of the suburban family with a big house, and this cliché involves being Christian.

I'm waiting for that final moment = the ending of the show?

You say the words that I can't say = the most obvious of them all: we know Mike is unable to say I love you to El, so he's waiting that final moment where Will is going to say I love you to him, because it seems like he's incapable to do it himself. Which means that Mike won't be the one to say I love you first.

———

So this chorus was centered on Mike's feelings and current situation. Now, the second verse.

SECOND VERSE:

I feel fine and I feel good

I'm feeling like I never should

Whenever I get this way, I just don't know what to say

Why can't we be ourselves like we were yesterday?

I'm not sure what this could mean

I don't think you're what you seem

I do admit to myself that if I hurt someone else

Then I'll never see just what we're meant to be

———

This is so Byler coded, and it is again, Mike's pov. So here's my analysis:

I feel fine and I feel good

I'm feeling like I never should = not okay to be feeling that way, this good.

Whenever I get this way, I just don't know what to say = this can have 2 meanings. Either it is about how he's feeling good when he's next to Will and he doesn't even know what to talk about or say because he's flustered. Or, he says he's feeling "good" and he shouldn't be when he's with Eleven, and whenever he gets this way, with El, he doesn't know what to say because he doesn't like her that way.

Why can't we be ourselves like we were yesterday? = About Will: why can't they be friends like before, like what changed? About El: why can't they be strangers/friends like before, why did they have to be together that way? Why did he push himself to in the first place.

I'm not sure what this could mean = About Will: the feelings he has, he's not sure what they are about (= his love feelings towards Will). About El: he's not sure of why he's feeling uncomfortable when he's with her (= platonic feelings towards El).

I don't think you're what you seem = I'm not sure if this could be said by Will or El. It can be, again like some sort of answer, response to what's previously said. So I think it could be El or Will saying to "you" (= Mike) that he's not acting like his usual self, he's different, faking to be perceived as normal (= regarding El, acting straight).

I do admit to myself that if I hurt someone else = back to Mike. Again this can have 2 meanings. For El: admitting that if he hurts her, by using her as a beard. For Will: hurting him by ignoring his feelings, letting him on the side and only concentrating on Eleven, hurting his feelings (platonic like romantic).

Then I'll never see just what we're meant to be = for El: what they're meant to be, so friends. Meaning if he hurts her by not admitting that he doesn't like her, he'll never see her and him as friends. For Will: what they're meant to be is boyfriends. Meaning if he hurts him by not admitting his feelings and ignoring him, he'll never see each other as lovers.

———

We can clearly see how this verse applies to Mike, as how he's confused and trapped between dating a girl he doesn't like and wanting a boy he likes. But it is the 80s, he's scared of what others would think, especially himself. Because of this internalized homophobia he has.

The rest of the song is the chorus repeated four times.

Overall, this song is exactly what Mike feels about Will and about Eleven, about this Bizarre Love Triangle.

If you have other interpretation for that song, please feel free to give it. This was mine, and you may not be agreeing with it entirely, so if you have a different opinion, I'd be glad to read it.

[kissboybyler]

it gets to me so much sometimes when i think that, in whichever fandom, the GA or just most people tend to ship two characters just because they are canon. Like mike and el, for instance, they are canon, they have kissing scenes and they dance at the ball and they…hug?! But what do they even talk about? What’s the music playing in the background? What’s the context of their interactions? Why, why do they love each other? Do they make each other better, do they find missing parts of themselves in the form of another person? Are there hints and tells and color-codes that just…exist to symbolise their love?

Why do we ship these characters? What’s is it about their love that is so strong? And don’t get me wrong, i also believe -like many other bylers/ fans of the show- that mike and el grew to love each other, to appreciate and kind of need each other. But not for the right reasons.

I mean, mike needs to be needed, to be able to help or even save another person, to feel loved and wanted. But he also needs to allow himself to be who he is, outside of “forced conformity” (“that’s what’s killing the kids” after all!)

El, on the other hand, needs to find who she is, but firstly she needs to have a safe place where she is allowed to kind of just exist and then blossom into her true self. And bumping into mike, who eventually grew to appreciate and embrace her, she felt safe for the first time. And alongside her, mike felt needed, like he could protect her and be there for her and make her happy.

But now el, who has established both meaningful familial relationships and friendships, needs to find out who she is. How can we expect her to grow when she’s in a relationship with the first person she met right after she broke out of the lab (her literal prison), who can’t even talk about any other part of her that he loves other than her powers?

And i’ve read many many other people write about this, about how in s4, when mike wasn’t with el he embraced his geeky, nerdy and weird self but when he finally reunited with el, he had to hide himself from her (as did she!). He just…couldn’t be himself around her.

But like, apart from the problems in their relationship, i really just don’t understand why people ship them. It’s just…mike cant be himself around el and el doesn’t have room to find herself when she’s with mike. It literally doesn’t make any mathematical sense.

And then they say we’re delusional for thinking, for proving, that there are astronomically higher chances for these two not to be endgame, for el to be single and for mike and will to get together. Because it makes sense…right? Like, el will be able to find herself outside of a relationship, she won’t be dictated by anyone but her own self, and mike and will… do i really have to elaborate? Like, in every single aspect of stranger things, from musical titles and colour-codes, parallels and loving, longing stares, hand touches, over-protectiveness, deep and meaningful understanding to posters and freaking funko-pops, interviews and good ol’ fashioned cinematography and storytelling… it all points to them, if you connect the dots.

And how, how is it possible that so many dots have been put into such perfect places, to make such a beautifully crafted imagery, just for all of this to be a coincidence? When, when has anything ever in stranger things been coincidental? Ever?

Edit: I’d just like to denote that, when i said “(mike) can’t even talk about any other part of her that he loves other than her powers” i didn’t mean that mike loves el JUST because she has powers, fuck no, BUT when the time was right for him to note all of the other aspects of her character that make her a remarkable person (ex. her selflessness, her compassion), he decided to focus on her powers. The very thing that she herself thought dictated her.

just wanted to make that super clear.

[dumbkitsune]

I dont think that introducing my mom to byler was a good idea because she absolutely DENIES EVERY SINGLE PROOF. AND WHY? Well good question because she doesnt know how to respond either: its always "hmm idk it seems forced" or "Haha I just dont see it" LIKE BRUH, THE EVIDENCE IS RIGHT THERE, LIKE-

I analized both the rain and the rink-o-mania fight , she says that it doesnt prove at all Mike's queerness and that they're just simply insecure. I can accept this from her because she doesnt know how it feels to be a gay kid in the 80's, and how typical that behaviour is for people in the closet or that have internalized homophobia. Ok, ok...

Then how the only time Mike tells El that he loves her is when he is not saying it to her directly. Yet again my mom says its because he is insecure, just that. And she also simply accepts how theyre the only couple that expresses their love forcing themselves to say "I love you" even though other couples on the show obviously love eachother and barely say it, you know its there. My mom just sees it as any other ship and as a normal thing in a relationship, ok? 😭

Then we gonna get into the good part, Mike's room and clothes. I explained to her how fucking gay every detail in Mike's room is. Not only that, the costume designers in an interview said that they used triangles in Robin's clothes since its a queer symbol and guess who has a giant ass triangle in their shirt😍 I GOT NOTHING FROM THIS BRO, yet again "it doesnt necessarily mean anything", "doesnt prove anything"... idk anymore man💔

AND NOW FINALLY what I think its the ultimate proof is the paralels with other ships and of course the last scene of S4... haha guess what it doesnt prove anything, its there just because

WHAT DO I DO ATP EUEUEUEUE

[carigm]

About Dyersfilm’s “leak”

For all of you who don’t know, dyersfilm is an insufferable individual who used to go by the name of swiftlynatalia. She is racist, homophobic, transphobic, and even made fun of her supposed favorite actress’ eating disorder. However, people on Twitter (especially mlvns) entertain her because she had reliable sources during the filming of S4, and after during post production. She had some true leaks, many being the same that Reddit got right, while others only she had. She was also wrong about quite a few things, but generally she was reliable.

It is worth noting though that she is extremely biased against byler (many of the leaks she got wrong for S4 were pertaining their storyline) and absolutely hates the ship.

This time around, she was getting some leaks during the first couple of months of filming to her curious cat, but she herself claimed that these were not reliable leaks whatsoever and that she was pissed because this time she doesn’t have access to the real sources she had for S4. She has complained about this repeatedly for these past few months. The leaks she has gotten tho, many she has mocked and made fun of because they don’t align with what she wants from the show. She also made a “disclaimer” when the show started filming again that she would not be posting leaks about Byler because she hates us all, and yet every single one of those most likely fake leaks she got she posted, and many of them talked about Byler. She would post them and mock them for “clearly being untrue”. She has barely gotten a single Mlvn positive leak this whole time, and when she’s gotten at least something that alludes to them having scenes together she immediately ran to post it and alert all her friends, even tho she herself knows all of these are most likely fake.

For weeks now, her curious cat has been dry af because I guess nda’s are stronger this time, or no one wants to leak shit to her (she’s rude as hell). she posted the following ask 10 days ago. Someone asked her if she knew about any Mike and El scenes and she said no. Keep this in mind for what’s coming next…

Then suddenly yesterday, she alluded to a Jonathan spoiler she’s supposedly pissed about, but refused to post it like she’s done for everything else. People quickly thought it might involve Byler because she said she wasn’t going to post “leaks” about it, even though she had already lol. So they asked her and she said that “yes, it has to do with Byler.”

Then shortly after this someone asked about Mlvn again, this was just today. Again, note how she proceeds to say she knows nothing about Mlvn 😭

Bylers on Twitter noticed her answers about Mlvn and her comment about a supposed byler leak involving Jonathan and started speculating. She ofc noticed this, and not even after an hour of her saying she knows nothing about Mlvn she goes on to say this.

….

She knows nothing but somehow she knows Mlvn is stable? The bipolar disorder of these answers could rival my own bipolar.

Mind you, we all know that she would’ve jumped up at the first opportunity to post any leak that implied Will was pining and miserable, her and her friends would’ve had a field day over it. And yet, she only clarifies this after…

Not to mention how utterly ridiculous this all is. They’ve filmed stuff up until episode 4 (from what we know), why the hell would Will be pining and hung up over Mike if Mlvn is endgame? That makes absolutely no fucking sense. They would have him immediately fully patch things up with Mike and move on, not be hung up on someone he can’t have in the middle of an apocalypse. Especially not after the Duffers said he’s getting a happy ending. Will getting a happy ending but still being in love with Mike halfway through the last season with Mlvn being endgame is absolute lunacy.

Especially when you consider the fact that narratively, in a sense, Will has already moved on. He doesn’t expect anything from Mike, he doesn’t think Mike can like him back. He saw Mike confess his love in front of El, he helped that confession happen. Will literally has no problem with Mlvn anymore pls 😭 He saved them!!

This is the most ridiculous shit I’ve ever read.

Will is somehow upset at Mike not feeling the same way…when Will already believes Mike doesn’t feel the same and doesn’t ever expect any reciprocation 😭

Either she’s wildly twisting this supposed leak out of context to fit her own perceived narrative of what should happen, or she’s straight up lying about this.

And we know she’s lying about Mlvn so…you people decide what you think of this buffoonery lol.

Wait for Reddit leaks y’all. This woman could get a legit leak saying Byler is endgame and dig her own grave before posting it.

[miwiheroes]

Dropping Byler Evidence Every Day Until Season 5

. ݁₊ ⊹ . ݁˖ . ݁ Day 18: Mike's Bedroom Scene . ݁₊ ⊹ . ݁˖ . ݁

Everyone knows this scene, everyone here LOVES this scene (or they better love it). It's so ripe for analysis in every single way, not even just for byler, but for things that happen later on in the season. I think shots like this are extremely thought out. They chose a wide angle shot to show you Mike's bedroom for a reason. They also showed you this bedroom right after seeing El's, to show the contrast between their two lives and how they view each other.

I've already talked about this contrast between their two rooms and the fact that Mike has nothing from El in his room in this post.

1. Rainbow Letter + Closet

I want to talk about something else before the glaringly obvious queer coding first: and that is the fact that El has her own stationary specific for writing Mike's notes, while it is canon that Mike just writes his letters to El on some scrap pieces of paper, showing the unequal amounts they are putting into their relationship:

Anyways, back to El's letter to Mike having literal rainbows on it. For El, this is some clear foreshadowing for her being in the rainbow room, and we can all agree on that right?

So if we can agree on that, then I think we should agree that it could also be true this is queer coding for Mike. It's the first thing you see in this scene, even before you see a shot of Mike himself. Also the fact that the next shot of the scene is Mike next to the open closet with the light on, kind of implies or foreshadows his story being tied to queerness for the rest of the season.

Having the light on in the closet is also to draw your attention toward it. I've talked before about how often in film it is to use light to mean truth, meaning this would imply that being in the closet is the truth that Mike is hiding, since a lot of this scene is taken up by the fact El's lying to him. So what does he have to hide? The set designers utilise light in this scene very carefully, which I will touch on in the later sections <3

2. Posters

This is such a famous piece of evidence that I feel like I don't really need to say anything here lmaooo, like we can see in multiple different shots that instead of having posters of literally anything else on his walls, he has posters of men. Specifically buff men (or a dragon if u wanna be pedantic guys).

This seems so on the nose that it has to be queer coding, just like the scene where Mike goes to the wrestling gym while on his search for a DND replacement for Lucas, and stuff like this has been used on many different queer coded characaters in media for a long time.

I've heard people argue that there is also a girl character in the Conan the Barbarian poster, but honestly, if you watch the film you would know why this is not a great thing to say or equate women to lmao... Basically this film does not shy away from the fact that men in this time period treated women like property so I'd be careful saying that.

If you want to go past talking about the fact this CtB poster is just a poster of a buff man, I'd say that it could symbolise Mike's need to be normal and fit into the "male role" in society that we saw in S3. To be honest, if I saw a guy with this poster, I'd.....run, girl RUN

So anyways, not only is there one poster of a buff guy, there is another. The one on the left is a poster designed by Rick Ruhman, whose other posters can be seen in the show, like in Reefer Rick's house. Buff dragon poster you'll always be famous <3

This is two instances already of Mike being associated with buff men, um, and to be honest that should be enough, but it's funny that there are two other instances of this happening in the show. Another is literally in episode 1 of S4, where Mike goes to the wrestling gym, and another is when he mentions Superman in relation to El for some reason, rather than calling her 'Supergirl' like Argyle does 10000 times.

This is a pattern, everyone. And can be compared to the fact that other male characters who were around the same age as him have posters of women surrounding them in different scenes.

In Steve's room: he was 17

In Lucas's scene with the other basketball guys: he is same age as Mike

3. His Noticeboard

thanks to @runninguplenorahills for this very good photo haha

First of all, want to establish that the lamp is placed next to this notice board on purpose, in order to draw your attention towards it, just like his closet earlier on (and later, you shall see). So you are meant to view this notice board as having little hints on it.

And there are! Not just towards his queerness. and they are pretty much confirmed to be foreshadowing for some of the plot points in S4, so other stuff in his room could also be foreshadowing , but for his queerness too.

These Garbage Pail Kids cards clearly foreshadow some events of S4. I think Heavin Steven may have something to do with Steve literally biting the head off of a demobat, which makes sense, or it could be about him randomly pouring his heart out to Nancy in the caravan. Evil Eddie obviously foreshadows that everyone thinks Eddie is the head of an evil cult and has murdered a woman, which is what's happening in the card. Live Mike is either a reference to Eddie playing his guitar later on, or it could be a reference to Mike's monologue where there are many lightning strikes at the most interesting times... Finally, Mad Max's card shows a brain being outside someone's head, foreshadowing her mind visiting Vecna's mindscape and her being braindead by the end of the season.

Also on his notice board are:

Escape Fun City: reference to California

Pizza Sticker: foreshadowing his time in the surfer boy pizza van and the pizza place.

Will's Drawings: obviously showing that he places more care in Will's drawings than El's letters which I talk about on one of my previous posts. He also still has Will's drawings in his basement.

So how is this byler evidence? Well, I really think this proves just how much thought and care went into making Mike's room foreshadow some later plot points, because the audience can hardly see what's going on here, but it still foreshadows stuff. This leads me onto....

4. The One Way Sign ;)

This one is a classic, and if you don't know this already, then I guess you must be new here hello

I just want you guys to think for a second about the intentionality of this. And I want you to imagine people setting up his room for filming. Because it wasn't just created out of nowhere, people genuinely thought about each decision. Imagine this just being written off as a coincidence, because let's lay out some facts here:

A light has been set up in Mike's closet

That light has been pointed so that it is a beam towards Mike

The closet door has been opened for no practical reason

A one way sign has been ordered, put on the wall in this specific spot.

A one way sign does not foreshadow any other plot points in S4.

I am baffled when I talk to people and they don't think this type of stuff is intentional. It's a blink and you miss it hint, yes, but those types of hints are supposed to be subtle so that when you look back on them, they make a lot of sense.

Overall, this shot of Mike's room is the perfect introduction to his character this season and makes the most sense. There is no other way that he could have been introduced in S4, in my opinion. It's subtlety is only for people who care enough to look, but it heavily queercodes him nonetheless. Just because they're small, doesn't mean they are insignificant.

[thewisewill80sbyers]

Can you name 3 things that you think are gonna happen in season 5?

I deduced some stuff from the BTS/leaks and others are just my speculation but I can say multiple things that I think are gonna happen:

*this is completely out of order, just what came to mind*

- Mike and El break up but they talk about it and stay friends in a good relationship

- Byler happens and Will makes a love monologue for Mike, Mike gets really hurt and almost dies but he doesn't - they kiss at least 2 times, one super emotional and one sweet

- Max's letters are either part of a voiceover at the beginning or the end of the show or are read by some of the characters, probably El and Lucas

- At some point the Party is going to be all connected inside Vecna's mind and Vecna is going to trap them in some sort of nightmare about their deepest fears and make them all experience something that they WILL survive and overcome during the nightmare and get free one by one and with the help of each others also, like finding each other inside a mental maze

- El's the one that connects all of them in this vision to fight Vecna but he takes over and it's a mind battle

-There's gonna be some kind of Maze situation either in the tunnel or mentally or both

- Lover's lake is important at the end, the Church is where someone dies and it's also part of the visions for Will specifically

- Will's internalized homophobia gets focused on

-Robin and Vickie kiss and get together

- Dustin finds the way to kill the Upside Down creatures and kills the bats in particular

-Will is going to trick Vecna and be the one to bring him down mentally

- Mike brings down Vecna physically like, gives him the final hit that kills him

- Jonathan or Nancy die protecting someone

- Max is going to help bring Vecna down from inside his mind and help save the people trapped there and is somehow going to evade him because she realized she wanted to live when she died so now she's strong mentally against him

- Holly gets trapped in a dream house and is sort of like a doll for Vecna to play with, he pretends she's Alice

-The military and the town too are going to help at the end of the season and fight with the Hawkins team against Vecna and the monsters

- At the beginning of the season they make a plan to evade the military

- Linda Hamilton is an antagonist but then changes her mind and helps them and dies at some point

- Sullivan dies, lots of soldiers get massacred etc etc

- This from the leaks mostly, but random kids start leaving their homes on their own because they're in a trance from Vecna and going to the Upside Down on their own, others get taken by the military for some experiments

- Derek helps the Hawkins group to infiltrate inside the military base

- Joyce gets hurt at some point but it's not extreme

- The Party gets bullied at school and Dustin gets beat up in the cemetery by Chance and the others (this is mostly from deducing it with BTS and then leaks confirmed)

- Karen gets hurt, Ted has badass scenes fighting the Demogorgons like Steve did in S1

- Hopper and Joyce have a sex scene in the first episode

- Background info about Henry's life is revealed and also about Owen's life too, Patty is brought up in some way

- Mike and Will are a team for most of the season and then at the end of the season they are all together again in a group and The Party is one of the groups

- We don't see the funeral of the person that dies but they time skip and we see them grieve but in a less heavy way like with them looking at a picture of who died or something like this

- LOTS of psychological torture in the climax moment of the show at the end, every single character will have to face their feelings and their fears and secrets and if they want to win they have to tell the truth and accept themselves

- The Party saves Mike's life with a speech, everybody says something good about him in turn and Will is the last one

- oh yeah and there's a time loop at the end when Vecna dies

Adding stuff:

Lucas cuts Vecna's head lol

Will and Max interact!!!!

Mmmh and I could continue but it's too long so no

Anyway this is my speculation, maybe I'll be wrong or maybe not but that's what makes sense to me 🤗

[nobylerdoubt]

Would the duffers queerbait Byler?

Note: I would love to be able to tell you with 100% certainty that we won't be queerbaited, but as many people have said we've been hurt before. I personally think we should allow ourselves to believe, and enjoy it, and look forward to it. I always say it says way more about the directors and producers if they queerbait then it says about us for believing. However I genuinely believe that this is NOT queerbaiting.

You have to remember that from the very first season of this show they have made it clear that they do not condone homophobia:

Lonnie is abusive and calls Will the f-slur.

Troy says terrible homophobic things about Will after his death, and gets his arm broken and is made to piss his pants.

It's painted in a bad light that certain people, like Troy's dad, aren't worried about Will going missing or his supposed death, because they assume he was "killed by some other queer".

Steve gets punched for saying he figured Jonathan "was some queer", and gets punched, and then goes on to change as a character and have a lesbian best friend, who's struggles Steve sympathizes with and who's romantic endeavors he tries to help.

Billy's dad was introduced to explain why Billy became such a bad person, and Billy's dad specifically calls Billy the f-slur. The bad person who made the bad person is homophobic.

Every. Single. Season. We are shown that this show does NOT condone homophobia.

So it seems unlikely to me for a show that goes to such length to make sure this message comes across - even before Will was "confirmed" gay, would turn around and do something so heinous.

I quote this all the time, but I love the quote from Shawn Levy. This show is an "Anthem for the Outcasts." With how popular the show has become, it can be easy to forget that. But this show was never for the conservative crowd, and yet somehow the conservative crowd likes it for the fact that it's eighties nostalgia. And they're pushing a homophobic narrative that bleeds into the general perception of the show and it's showrunners. But that's not what this show has ever been about.

[miaoumeowmiaw]

I genuinely think that leakers have no idea about the endgames. Last time I talked to my source about the love triangle, she told me that during a scene between Mike and Will, the production only allowed the bare minimum crew members to see what's actually happening in the scene. This season they were really trying to avoid leaks about some plots or at least if one of the crew members leaked shit, they would be able to know who did it easily. All I could get from the Byler-Mileven story is that Mike and El have a couple of scenes happening at the beginning then they are gonna be separated for some time and in the meantime, Mike will spend a huge part of the season next to Will. My guess was that Mike was in his Jonathan era.

Yup. I've been saying this since we went public with the first ST5 leak. None of us, zero, na-da, know what the endgame ships are, or really the end of anything. Every single time that somebody has claimed otherwise or said so-and-so is endgame, they have been outed as either being heavily biased, or lying.

For whatever reason I upset a lot of people when I say that. There was somebody in my Strawpage who thought I was proven unreliable because I « told them Byler was not happening » ? No I never said that. It's my opinion that both will be ambiguous, but I don't actually know shit. Enough to give anybody a solid answer at least.

All I can give is scenes that I am aware of happening, and photos. And it is the same for every other reliable leaker. Ok?

[lune-moon-nuit]

do you think Mike will Go in for the kiss or will? Or how do you even think Will the kiss Scene be setted? (Lol,how i Talk about It If It was already canon...well It almost Is)

Or do you think a Love confessions comes First? And will It then Be Will or Mike to do it? Or will It be both at the Same time? Just Tell me how you think they will be setted in General,i Love to hear the thoughts of Other bylers for s5

(but please don't Tell me that you think Bychance Is Happening 😭)

I honestly have no idea what they have planned for the first kiss and love confession scene... But I’d lean more toward it coming from Mike, because Will has quite literally given up all hope that Mike could ever love him back. He gave him the painting while giving a completely different (and false) reason as to why he made it and why he was giving it to him. His disguised love confession, hidden behind El’s name, was a heartbreaking moment that felt like a real act of self-sacrifice—putting Mike and El’s happiness above his own feelings. He even pushed Mike to do the same. Will clearly has zero hope that Mike could ever love him as more than a friend. He won’t try to find out if there’s something more—he’s going to move on in season 5, or at least try to. You can already see how much he’s matured between season 3 and season 4. In season 3, he was frustrated and upset that Mike spent all his time with El, and he ended up saying out of jealousy and anger that El was “stupid.” But in season 4, even though he had countless chances to stir up trouble in Mike and El’s already fragile and tense relationship—by exposing El’s lies to Mike, encouraging Mike to move on after their fight, or simply not comforting him in the van—he never took any of those opportunities. On the contrary, every single time, he supported and comforted Mike. He even reassured him that everything was going to be okay (even when Mike was probably hoping Will would secretly tell him that maybe this fight was a sign to let go of the relationship, like, “this is one of those adult fights where you can’t come back from it”).

Anyway, all of that to say: Will doesn’t believe he has even a 1% chance with Mike, so it’s very unlikely that any kind of confession or kiss would come from him. I think it’ll come from Mike—and that would be even better, because if he’s the one to make the first move, no one can accuse Will of having broken up a couple. It would also make it easier for the general audience to accept, especially if the show presents Mike’s point of view and explains why he’s making that choice. That way, the audience can finally understand that Byler has been there all along—it’s just always been bubbling under the surface.

There’s also a real possibility that it could all come out during an argument, haha, because they do tend to be less subtle and more emotionally raw when they fight. Their feelings for each other become way more obvious in those moments, so it would actually be really interesting if their love confession ended up happening in the heat of a confrontation.

As for Chance, I honestly see it more as a joke than anything serious. And even if they did decide to include something related to Chance, it would only serve as a way to trigger Mike’s jealousy and make it blatantly obvious to the audience. For example, through our powers of analysis and observation, we noticed that Mike was jealous at the Snow Ball; in season 4 we saw that he was jealous because he thought Will had a crush on a girl—maybe even Angela. But the general audience didn’t pick up on any of that. They haven’t even noticed that most of Mike’s behavior toward Will is driven by jealousy and romantic feelings at Rink-O-Mania.

So, if Chance were to serve any purpose, it could be to trigger one of those classic misunderstandings that make Mike’s feelings undeniable—not just to us, but to the audience. And for that to work, Will wouldn’t even need to be in a relationship with Chance. All it would take is a simple misunderstanding, a bit of Mike’s paranoia based on a misinterpreted interaction between Will and Chance—something along those lines. When it’s not just for comedic relief, misunderstandings in storytelling often exist to help a character come to terms with unconscious feelings. They misread a situation, react emotionally, and end up triggering a butterfly effect. That butterfly effect could very well be what leads to Mike’s love confession.

That’s why I’m not too bothered by the idea of Chance being introduced—because I know he’ll never be anything more than a useful tool for Byler’s romantic arc, and nothing beyond that, haha.

[ven0moir]

I gotta say that while I like the idea of Chance as a conduit to the audience of Mike’s feelings, and a showcase for his jealousy, I also like Chance as something uniquely for Will and his growth/growing up. While I get wanting the sort of pure, overly romantic “you or no one else” true love story for byler, it would be kinda unfair to Will (and unrealistic) if he was the only one that never got to experience anything romantic of his own, just stewing in heartbreak and sadness, until the day Mike decided he wanted to act on his feelings finally.

Kinda unfair to Will as his own character to expect him to sit around and be sad and lonely for years after ripping off the band aid of his love for Mike, since where he’s at in the story now Will has accepted that Mike will never love him and has essentially closed the door. Therefore narratively it makes total sense for him to have something with someone else! Even if it’s briefly and just a plot device, it not only helps Will grow as a character who frankly, needs to be seen by the audience as a desirable romantic leading man if they want byler to hit like it should, since he’s always been the one who needed to grow up, the childish one etc, but also is a way to hammer home how hopeless the Mike situation is to him at this point, how Will has closed the door on that, given up, all things that will serve to make the byler reveal that much more surprising to some, and generally impactful.

Will needs to grow up and into himself, his confidence, both as a person and as a gay man(and in his mind he thinks he needs to get over Mike) which is classic coming of age stuff. If chance happens, it fully makes sense imo. Idk if I expect it to or not, but I can easily see how it would and i’m also struggling to see how you do the whole Will coming of age and Mike feelings reveal without some catalyst, and no I don’t think a painting is enough. Because I don’t think Mike is stupid, I think he suspects (or knows) what Will was trying to say, but it’s the 80s and he’s scared and hasn’t faced that side of him yet. Mike needs something to shake him out of his complacency. Something like Chance could be that catalyst. Ofc they could always use Will being in danger, Vecna etc to get him to act, but I feel like that isn’t gonna cut it. Also I think them showing us every season now that someone else has been interested in Will but he says no to every single one (cause they are girls) could be a subtle build up to the final season where yet another person shows interest in Will… and this time he does reciprocate. Cause this time it’s a boy. Coming of age indeed. A coming of age that ties right into Mike’s coming of age of dealing with his sexuality. They would both directly impact each other.

anon, this is so beautifully worded <3 exactly my thoughts too but worded better than I ever could!