#and i say this as a samifer (ship) enjoyer

[au-where-spn-is-good]

my hottest take as a sam lover is that i didn’t rly like the show’s portrayal of samifer (as in sam possessed by lucifer not as in the ship) very much. and i do think a not insignificant portion of that is how fucking ugly that suit was it did not fit him right and the shirt wasn’t the same white as the suit in a weird way and why didn’t they give him a TIE i just think an all white suit is such a difficult thing to pull off if ur not doing it right and the costume department was Not Doing It Right That Day

[quietwingsinthesky]

That's like exactly what most proshippers want? "Let me write my kinky shit because I think it's hot and leave me alone." I call myself proship because I read dubcon and stuff like bdsm AUs, and while there might be antis who are ok with it, I don't want to interact with judgy people. And most of them won't be okay with it anyway.

I remember a time when fandom didn't have either antis or pros and shipping wars were about which character is hotter. I want to go back there.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying. The point of me declaring that in my bio wouldn’t actually tell anyone anything about what I write or what I read or anything at all. It is purely about choosing a faction. It’s like.

Okay, the whole point of this is that people keep following me who have, somewhere on their page, “proship dni”. Now, why the hell they’re following me, a samifer blog, is their own business. Where it becomes my business is that “proship dni” doesn’t actually tell me anything except “if you post something I deem Wrong, I am going to turn on you.” It doesn’t tell me what that person thinks is Wrong, only that if I cross a line that I don’t know is there, then… Well, this is the internet, people get stalked, harassed, doxxed, etc for stupid shit like shipping all the time. Rather it not be me in anyone’s sights.

So. Proship in the bio. So hopefully anyone who sees it and is filled with disgust at the very idea that people can write whatever they want will turn away from my blog and block me immediately, rather than following me, getting attached to a random internet blog they do not know, and then feeling betrayed the next time I post some noncon and justified in acting on that betrayed feeling however they deem necessary.

I am tired. This whole senseless debate is tiring. There is no actual definition of pro or anti, not consistent across every person using it. Any anti will excuse a morally incorrect thing if they personally like writing or reading about it. Any proship person can turn and start a witch-hunt about someone for having a ship they personally don’t like.

But. Chances are, in my experience, if someone’s got ‘proship dni’ in their bio, it ain’t someone I want around, for their enjoyment of fandom and mine. So. Idk. This isn’t a solution. But it’s duct tape. It works.

[parkers-bitchass-world]

I know this probably won’t be seen by many ppl but I’m going to say it regardless.

Supernatural isn’t homophobic

Let’s start off with the issue of queerbaiting.

Queerbaiting is Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBTQ representation.

There has been LGBTQ representation on the show, most notably with Charlie, so right away, the argument has less weight to it. But I don’t think the writers queerbaited us, because they didn’t write with the intention of not giving us destiel.

I think the fans project too much into what wasn’t there. The writers and actors said they weren’t going to do destiel, (which obviously has changed but I’ll get to that). Since they didn’t write with the intention of baiting us, I think it’s unfair to say it’s queerbaiting.

Yes, Dean and Cas are close, and yes I am an avid Destiel shipper, but I really think the fans have let the idea that destiel is real (speaking prior to “Despait”) overtake their enjoyment of the show.

Now as for Jensen being homophobic

He isn’t. Sorry but it’s true. Maybe he was at one point, but people change. And even if he isn’t okay with it (which I wouldn’t be okay with, let me make that clear), he still played the role which is literally his job.

Actors aren’t their characters.

Jensen has voiced support for the community. I believe part of the reason he’s called homophobic is because he doesn’t support destiel.

But this is the thing,,, that’s totally fine. It doesn’t mean he’s homophobic. I don’t ship Samifer, that doesn’t make me homophobic. Be careful where you draw the line, and understand that separating the actors feelings and the character are very important.

Now let’s talk about “Despair”

In this episode, we have Cas confess to Dean, as I’m sure the whole internet is aware by now. Here’s my thoughts on it:

I thought it was poetic. Cas and Dean have always had a special bond. But hunters don’t get happy endings, that’s just fact. So Cas hid his feelings for years, because he wouldn’t want to open a can of worms he couldn’t close.

Now when the Empty told Cas that when he finally experienced true happiness, he’d be taken, I knew then and there that Cas was going to end up in Super Mega Hell again, or else why would they have done that.

So when Dean is lost, has nothing left he can think to do to save himself and Cas, he’s at his lowest, most emotionally vulnerable state. To put it simply, he’s overwhelmed and is just kind of shutting down. And on top of this, the person (angel) he loves (whether platonically or romantically) starts to say goodbye, don’t tell me you wouldn’t feel like you’d have been punched in the gut.

I think Dean’s lack of response is only human.

So Cas sacrifices himself to save Dean.

And this has been done so many times on the show, that I don’t understand why ppl are singling out this instance to say they’ve done the ‘bury your gays’ trope. So many people, straight or gay alike, have sacrificed themselves to the Winchesters.

Because Hunters don’t get happy endings.

So Cas confesses and then gets taken to Eternal Time Out. Is it homophobic? No. Is it a good plot point for closing down the season? Yes. This wasn’t about gay or straight, this was about life or death.

NowI have certainly laughed at memes like “Jensen/Dean trying not to say slurs while Misha/Cas is crying,” but it gets to a point where you need to make sure you’re still being realistic.

So in conclusion:

Has Supernatural and it’s actors had some bumpy experiences with interacting with the LGBTQ+ community? Sure. Forgive but don’t forget.

But is it a raging homophobic show? No. In my opinion it’s as realistic as it can get in a world with angels and vampires.

This is just my opinion. If you want to disagree with me, do it respectfully please, thanks

[foreverfallen]

ANSWER THE FOLLOWING SO PEOPLE KNOW HOW SHIPS WORK ON YOUR BLOG

WHAT’S YOUR OTP FOR YOUR MUSE? : That’s a little difficult, because I can write the ship as a ship-ship, romantically, or not and just do as a really strong bond between the two. It’s Michifer (Samifer would come in a very close second), but like I said, it can go either as a strong familial bond or romantic ship. Really, Lucifer is a little harder to ship with, so it varies. 

WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO WRITE WHEN IT COMES TO SHIPPING?  I’ll write anything, but with this character, like I said, it’s harder to do. He’s not exactly the most easily shippable in the bunch, when it comes to getting along with everyone. (And he says that’s totally everyone else’s fault, btw.) 

HOW LARGE DOES THE AGE GAP HAVE TO BE TO MAKE IT UNCOMFORTABLE? Considering he’s a celestial being from nearly the beginning of time, if it’s with a human, there’s always going to be a very significant “age gap” but yeah--we’re not talking minors in human years here. That’s a no. 

ARE YOU SELECTIVE WHEN SHIPPING? : It has to be chemistry between both me and my partner and our styles of writing. Our muses. As far as that goes, I’m selective. I’m not just gonna... jump right into a ship. 

HOW FAR DO STEAMY MOMENTS HAVE TO GO BEFORE THEY’RE CONSIDERED NS/FW?: I’m always a horrible judge at tagging things for content and whatnot, but I’d say... once all the clothes come off and it gets to when the body reacts more than “oh it’s a little hot in here” kinda thing-- then it’s considered going into ns/fw territory. 

WHO ARE OTHER MUSES YOU SHIP YOUR MUSE WITH? : I list some of the ships in my rules, but the top ones? Michael, Sam, Lilith, Nick, possibly even Crowley if the right one came along... IDK. 

ANY NOTPS? : Not really. There may be some he hate-ships with, but none that I really look at and go “oh... nope.” 

DOES ONE HAVE TO ASK TO SHIP WITH YOU? : I’m really... how shall we say... oblivious to certain things? I will automatically you don’t want to ship-ship unless you tell me. Especially when it comes to the angels. So I’ll end up always writing him familial-wise, unless you tell me “Hey I ship this. Can we ship it?” and then I’ll probably be like “Hells yeah!” That sorta thing. 

HOW OFTEN DO YOU LIKE TO SHIP? : On some of my other blogs--a lot. Here, it’s a little different because of the muse I’m working with. He’s not as shippable. 

ARE YOU MULTISHIP? : Yes, I am. 

ARE YOU SHIP-OBSESSED OR SHIP MORE-OR-LESS? : I don’t write just for the ship. I don’t watch my shows just for the ship. So I’d say... shipping is fun, it’s enjoyable, it’s part of what makes things entertaining, but it’s not my be-all, end-all for being here. 

WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE SHIP IN YOUR CURRENT FANDOM? :  Yeah, no... I’m gonna stick with Michifer on that one. It might not have any bearing considering the current state of those characters, but... yeah... 

FINALLY, HOW DOES ONE SHIP WITH YOU? :  Ask about it, RP with me, hit up my IM or inbox, really just let’s get this ball rolling! Approach me because I’m so bad at doing the approaching myself.  

TAGGED BY: @courageousones

TAGGING: @ anyone who wants to 

[chiisana-sukima]

Ah, I see. I don't follow SW, but I've heard there's all kinds of policing going on about whether it's OK to like the alleged abusive ship or not (I don't even know the ship name). And yeah, if they're enemies, then they're enemies.

I feel like then whether the ship is abusive/contains domestic violence or not depends on when the romantic relationship begins and what happens from there on out. But my impression is that it's kind of hard to move hardcore enemies to a romantic relationship without there being a period during which the relationship contains elements of violence? But that would be about the fanworks, not about the canon relationship .

Although, I think I can also see how the assumption that the ship could only occur in a context of abuse (unless in an AU setting) can happen too. The dude is an Empire higher up and the chick is a rebel alliance soldier? Is that right? If so, it seems like a non-au relationship developing in the context of their war would be much more likely to be the rebel character getting captured than anything else?It's hard for me to speak to SW though on account of the whole me being totally ignorant about it thing, so that could be completely mistaken. :)

My own reaction is about my annoyance in our shared fandom that's pretty much opposite of the thing you're annoyed about, but I think comes from the same place? It bugs me to no end that people want to be all (to take an example) "you're bad if you like samifer, because samifer is an abusive ship", when, with very few exceptions, *all* the major canon relationships in SPN contain abusive or violent elements.

I do think what you're saying is legit as to fanworks; that one can write, certainly an AU, but with hard work also a faithful canon-divergent fic, that removes abusive or violent elements from the relationship and is its own nonabusive bubble. But I wish we had some way to talk about that a little better? I really enjoy abusive Samifer, for example, but am creeped out by a lot of canon-like samifer fics in which the canon violence is removed without acknowledgement? Like I feel it's legitimate for me to say that Samifer is an abusive ship unless modified?

But on the other hand, I'm aware that language is used to police people's enjoyment of ships that contain violence, so I dunno, maybe it *would* be better if we picked some less inflammatory word like we did with "noncon" as a sub in for "rape".

sometimes I get really uncomfortable with lots of posts about how certain characters are “abusive” just because they are terrible to each other at times.

Abuse is a system. It requires a system of power and it’s set up to keep some people subjugated and others able to control their lives and what they do.

people just behaving poorly, lashing out, making mistakes, making negative interpersonal impacts on one another, even manipulating or misleading one another to an extent, are not inherently abusive. I understand many people who have been abused can see echos of what they face every day in the actions of fictional characters. but unless those characters are actually depicting an abusive relationship, they are not abusive/abused characters.

People can seem REALLY quick to whip out the “wow so and so is a TYRANT to this other person!” when really they don’t actually have any authority or ability to control what that other person does, no self-sustaining system that degrades and destroys that other person in order to suit their needs. They just are behaving badly or in a hurtful way. You don’t need power over someone else to hurt them. You just need to be able to disrespect their boundaries.