#and actively harmful depending on what you're trying to accomplish at worst

[creaturebloom]

idk i think a lot of people fail to realize that most other people are, in fact, just people also

[96percentdone]

'without thinking about what harm their actions or ideas might cause' so these tags from the post about abuse, I'm a little lost by the ideas part, could you explain a bit more about what can be harmful?

I'll use myself from a time where I was at my worst possible self as an example, because I think it makes a good reference point.

So in the past, I was in a relationship where I was deeply jealous of the friendships my then partner had with other people, because they talked about them a lot, and used language to refer to them that I had associated with romance based on y'know culture and upbringing etc. Now, jealousy isn't actually a morally wrong emotion to feel, nor is it wrong to have anxieties or insecurities about things someone in your life is doing. Like all emotions, they're inherently neutral; the moral failure lies in how you deal with it. In my head, I wanted my partner to stop associating with them, because that would make me feel better.

That's not something you can ask for. It's actually pretty common on abuser warning signs that if someone is trying to get you to stop associating with your loved ones. When you ask someone you're supposed to love to cut out people they love, because it would make you feel better, that's something you do without really thinking about the harm it causes your partner. Those concerns are irrelevant. The abusive party is first and foremost concerned with assuaging their own anxieties and fears, by whatever means would best do that, and if they accomplish that then they're happy. It doesn't occur to them you might be less happy to not have those friends in your life, or that you'd be more alone or more dependent on them. On some level, subconsciously, they might want the latter, but more than likely they're not actively thinking either of those things. They're not thinking in terms of 'how do I make your life worse', they're thinking 'how do I make myself feel better'.

This is what I mean by an idea that is harmful. It's an fix that doesn't consider the other people involved or how it affects them, and is entirely focused on just immediately curbing the emotional response you're having. A lot of this mindset is actually something anyone can have, without being abusive. People when they're stressed or overwhelmed often are not thinking rationally, but are thinking shortsightedly and in extremes about making the stressors go away as soon as possible. This usually results in bad, selfish ideas, and they never come close to addressing the root of the problem. That doesn't inherently make you abusive. That's human. I think it's important we remember this going forward, before we continue talking about abusive people.

Back to the personal example, I didn't ask for this in my relationship. I knew that if you do this, this is just blatant abuse. I did ask for them to stop using that language to refer to them around me (anywhere/everywhere else is fine), and I also asked if I could possibly hear about one of them less. I don't think I was out of bounds on the former; it's a small thing that doesn't involve majorly changing your life or your feelings. However, the latter still feels wrong to me. I can see like now that 1) that didn't address the reason I was anxious and insecure (too long and irrelevant to unpack for this post) and 2) it set up this idea that I don't want to hear about what/who makes them happy because that makes me upset. That's a feeling that causes division and isolation in a relationship, where you either decide not to talk about what you love to keep your partner happy, or you talk about it and then feel responsible when they're not. That's not a position you should put someone you care about in. Your partner is not responsible for managing your emotions. I don't think I should have asked that, and if I was in that position again today, I would not.

But at the time, when I suggested this, none of that was on my brain. I was just thinking about how I wanted to not feel so miserable and insecure anymore, because I was overwhelmed by it. My suggestion didn't come to pass anyway, even after I brought it up, and surprise surprise it turns out that request wasn't the solution, because just trying to dodge things that make you feel anxious doesn't solve the source of why you have this insecurity and lack of esteem.

The action is in how the bad idea is implemented, by force or coercion. While someone who isn't abusive but is handling their feelings like shit might say or do things that put strain on the other person (I'm sure everyone has had unpleasant talks or arguments that were stressful to navigate, and have been on either end), they still care about the other party. They will try, although not effectively (cannot stress this enough the more overwhelmed you are when trying to have the talk the more likely this conversation is gonna be a hot mess), to have an actual discussion and reach a mutual agreement where all parties are okay at the end. The abuser isn't.

To the abusive person, their shitty idea is the only solution, and it must happen, or else you don't really love them. They see anything that isn't complete acquiescence as you wanting them to stay in pain, and so they react as though that's what's happening. Again, they're not thinking about you, or how you feel. It's not on their brains. They are only thinking about their pain, and making it stop, so if you disagree with them, or have any issues with it, they don't see it as you expressing how this affects you, they see it as you trying to invalidate and dismiss their pain, which makes you the bad guy.

This is also why it is common for people to see their abusers make claims they were the real abuse victim, because that is genuinely how they see it. They understand that disregarding someone else's concerns or feelings is abusive, which is what they think you're doing. They can't see that they haven't thought once about you this entire time, or that they're dismissing you. As I said before they aren't thinking about you at all. It's about them, and their feelings, and making those feelings go away, which often involves you doing something.

This is why I think it's bad to think about abusive people as conniving, or as a separate type of person. They're not. They start at the same place everyone else is also capable of, but they navigate those places in a shortsighted and self-centered way throughout. Nothing they do is really about you. You aren't a person to them; you're a means of managing their emotions. They're the only real person with a rich inner life and complicated emotions, and they want to be happy, and you're there to make them happy. An abusive relationship is one-sided because the abusive party does not see their victim as a person with needs or wants, but as a thing that is meant to make them happy, and if its not doing that, it must be fixed. It's dehumanizing.

I used a romantic relationship as an example, but this is the dynamic in any type of abusive relationship. The only changes are in the kinds of unreasonable things they might expect from you to caretake for their feelings. I hope this helped make things clearer.