#and I RAN the GDA?? I'd become his mentor idk. make him loyal and trust you. easyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[the-stove-is-divorced]

Truly the grief for shows with 20+ eps a season is so indescribable, not everything needs to be 8-10 eps with 45+ min each episode!

And honestly, so true? Agree heavily here. I love the drama of the scene (mostly), Cecil v. Mark, ex. Mark thinking Cecil would outright try to kill him, b/c Mark's prob seeing the Nolan in Cecil, who takes the rejection of obedience into outright violence (presumably?). But still! Lacking! This would hit harder if there was more built up to Mark's trust in Cecil, any mentor-like advice, or paralleled Nolan in Cecil as it did Mark! But, Mark's difficulty in vocalizing his own morality, like you mention, just kinda leaves me a little confused on this whole conflict between them. It retracts from scenes with Oliver, too, it retracts the drama of A LOT, if it just leaves same outright squinting at the screen, 'cause the very foundation, what Mark knows and thinks is right, isn't exactly solid and established.

Like, why doesn't Mark vocalize the importance the HELPING people? Some classic spidey "great power, great responsibility", why is my guy going through the motions, and clearly STILL struggling? I feel like s1 does make some point to highlight Mark does want to help people, or trying to prod at his idea of what helping people means, even if it ends up going terribly wrong. Him failing to rescue a dying woman, him roped into fighting Machine Head, does prod at his ideas of what his job can/doesn't mean, but it feels like they never dive back into that properly? Which is strange, 'cause that's another potential Eve, Mark tie-in, as Eve realizes she can't do everything yet, Mark tries to figure out what he can do. Then they're both learning! Even supporting each other while pushing character growth! But it seems his only goal posts are Don't Be Dad (somehow? vaguely? no sub-goals, here), and Punch Bad Guy...? It's so strange.

Rewatching clips of s1's Mark vs Nolan fight rn, and Mark's weirdly unspecific morality is even weirder? He was trying to save ppl in that battle, desperately, no? I would think post-Nolan fight, he'd want to work real hard in gaining public trust again, and getting real emotional when ANY civilians die. Nolan outright tells him it's his fault ppl died, and Mark, later, learns Nolan is dead ass serious (pun intended lol) about replacing him, why wouldn't that message sink in further? Make him try to saving people first, over fight? Why not show Mark struggling with taking out the bad guy to stop threat, OR saving people whole the threat lingers, unable to choose a higher priority or outright choosing the wrong one, ultimately taking any mistake as proof the s1 fight was his fault.

Truly, some good ol' flashbacks into Guardian dynamics would be so thrilling, because yeah, it seems they were all in good terms! I also just want it so bad. How dare you gimme bootleg Justice League and then don't give me the dynamics. Outright entertainment robbery. YES TEAM DYNAMICS MY BELOVED FOR REAL. The deprivation of small, but so TELLING character moments make me so ill, because it's SO NEEEDED!!! Same brain waves, because the outright visual communication of these characters is NEEDED and would make me so ill in a good way. The budget issue limiting this show will never NOT drive me insane because Amazon HAS THE MONEY FOR SURE, but refuses to make this show something that, even if the writing isn't exactly fantastic, the FIGHTS could be legendary, if not playful. Also WHY did all of them go fr????? That's such a stupid decision? Especially if limiting it down further could have more character moments, even if small visual cues the show lacks!

I feel I violently check out when it comes to romantic focused media to not fully click this trope is so persistent and so ODD? Like HELLO? That's such a backhanded gift at best, inpersonal and one-sided, and outright cruel if I really wanna go there 'cause like you said, you don't know them. Even making a JOKE out of what's supposed to be a meal meaning gift is crazy??? Like this is fiction, a gift is GREAT way to demonstrate intentionally who these characters are and their relationship to each other. Don't remember the episode or if you're there already, but Justice League has an episode where Wonder Woman + Batman get Superman a bday gift before plot happens, (tho it's strange tbh, in the comics WW's gift is actually Batman's? But they switch it for the show if I'm not mistaken???) and GREAT moment!

Kate and Immortal piss me off so bad but we've already discussed why, like this girl isn't a character istg, EXPLORE HER DAMMIT, but seriously! We got a secret identity plotline BRIEFLY before dropping it and then just straight up functioning on how it's not a thing at all like hello????? Can this have any consequences or impact, even if it's people just look the other way? Which is so odd when it's a common staple for the hero genre, too, but I suppose they don't want to explore it? Perhaps too much of a staple to be interesting for them?

AND TRULY i am so tired of mark getting kicked around, bro, what the heck? Do something before the eleventh hour? But characters being genre savvy would be so funny, imagine somebody just pretends to be hurt to get Mark to actually focus lol.

THE ROGUE GALLERY IS SO SAD AND IT MAKES ME SO UPSET. How we get a bootleg JL and no actually good rogue gallery????? CRAZY WORK. Like part of the WHOLE FUN of superhero media is the villains, like, batman villains are crazy interesting or always just entertaining to SOMEONE, poison ivy, harley quin, penguin, etc, which usually reflect back on batman's character in some way if ya wanna dig into it, or just enjoy a good villain! Instead... it's just sad and empty. Currently foaming at the mouth for ANY super villain to be a mark parallel (like a former villain sidekick trying to step out the shadows of their mentor), or straight up used to be Nolan's nemesis and just tries to keep it up with Mark, insisting they're the same for example IDK. Villains are also good at establishing the world!!

ALSO SO TRUE? I don't think it's ever been actually acknowledged??? Ever?? Why doesn't he explore being mixed raced???? My guy is mixed race AND half human, there is SOMETHING to say here. ALSO SO FUCKING TRUE? WHY CAN'T OLIVER AND MARK BOND ABOUT BEING HYBRIDS? ABOUT HOW OLIVER CAN'T PASS AS EASILY?? My guy can't even go to school 'cause he grows up too fast, like can we talk about this??? Can Oliver be a person??? That could put some conflict / added conflict in the relationship?? Can Mark think about what it's like be HALF ALIEN? Can this mf have some unique oddness because of being a hybrid, I BEG. This is why the lack of self introspection in the desert makes me utterly insane. IT WAS RIGHT THERE.

Also you're telling me we got demons, billion dollar teleporters, cursed family lines, aliens, but nothing to instantly make Oliver look human so he can walk around? Easy way for Mark to feel indebted to Cecil, or Oliver trusting Cecil, something???

Cecil is so fucking interesting because he truly must be Like This. Which is even funnier because you'd think he'd be easier to guess with a focus on his, like, trajectory but no???? At least to me. I am squinting, personally. One would think you'd want needed allies close by and endeared to you, control 'em better, but Mark threatens, and he threatens back even harder, like I GET WHY but also DAMN. Instant escalation. Never threaten this mf, he'd take you AND himself out. It's also funny because like Oliver kills and Mark struggles articulating why it's bad, but also Cecil is presumably A-OK with killing (now) but only when he says so (assumingly). Like, don't kill because we could use them, isn't a because it's bad :( argument???

So, I'd imagine if he had to tackle training/mentoring Mark and Oliver it'd be a challenges in the opposite direction. Like No, Oliver you can't kill them ALL. Yes, Mark you DO have to kill sometimes. I'd kill to know what that looks like. Does Oliver get a whole team dedicated to training him, and Cecil check-ins?

But back to his side of things, I just wanna shake him furiously. Like, you point out, you're telling him to stand down WHY inducing pain AND beating him the fuck up like HELLO? You did not make Mark seem dangerous, now YOU look unhinged in dangerous in a desperate power grab/for control. You're basically tazing someone and telling them to calm down LMAO. Which also like did you try calling them off or is this legit an error here? Which yes, yes, characters can make wrong decisions or have flaws and ruin things despite their best intentions, paved roads and all that, but also it so funny if you tilt your head. Cecil why. I get it yes, but also Cecil, no, Cecil no.

Also exactly, when it's TOO vague I just stare the doc. There's no jumping point to push it's anything goes and how hard do I want to overthink it?

While I'm not too familiar with the DCU- your batfam meta posts are intiguing- so in transfering some of the broader strokes from them- I think you tackling a 'Mark isn't Nolan's biological son' fic would be fascinating. Sort of a step to the side of the 'what if Mark never got his powers' fic that sometimes pop up in the fandom

OOOOOO chewing on this currently, hm, the much a distinct flavor of exactly what you’re talking about, but the potential for more family drama depending on WHO knows. Does Mark know?? Is he waiting every day only to be crushed? Does he confused non-Debbie features with Nolan’s? I suppose I’m not the most enthusiastic about non-power AUs, but I think there’s something very fun to explore about Mark having to settle with, if he knows all his life, he will never have powers? I think the trajectory of his dreams will obviously shift, I can see him still having that distinct fatherly idolization, but perhaps embraces being useful to the GDA? Cecil’s number one intern—only intern—curtesy of nepotism, ha! There is something tickling me about Mark taking the Robin Route/Role for the Teen Team in terms of having no powers, just insane skills, BUT there’s something way more delicious about intern Mark when s1e01 happens and Mark tries snooping around to find out the truth about what happened to his Dad.

I wonder if, with Mark having a whole another father, if they’re more or less distant relationship, depending on WHEN Nolan entered Mark’s life? Like if Debbie met Nolan later for this, or just for fun, they dated once, separated (Mark being born during then), then they happened to stumble into each others lives again and Mark’s already been born, anywhere from tween to teenager so there’s a gap in how close they are. I feel like one important aspect of the whole Family Drama is how close they’re supposed to be, a functional, loving family turned upside down? So I wonder what more distance does. I wonder how Nolan copes when his family is entirely human and he can’t project onto Mark.

I love thinking about these, omg.