#although it'll be hella fun if 10 years later jon will end up behind the wall

[asoiaf-essays-collector]

*Mic check* I'd like to add a few words, thank you!

This ending sucks not because it's tragic and ironic but because it doesn't make any sense. It adds absolutely nothing but pointless tragedy and irony.

Let's look at it from different perspectives, shall we?

First - why is the Night's Watch even there in the end? It has two purposes - to guard 7 kingdoms from the others and to guard it from wildlings. And last several thousands years it served mostly the second purpose. So the others are eliminated and wildlings are North's "friends" or allies or subordinates thanks to Jon - so why would the Night's Watch still be there? What they gonna do - just hang out? Chill on top of the destroyed Wall?

But okay, let's say the Night's Watch stands - although now they lack any purpose and lack people (most of them are just killed in the battles against the others, very little people are gonna arrive because, you know, years of devastating wars and Daenerys's war crimes and westerosi population is pretty much decreased). For whatever reasons - maybe they stay there just in case or because they don't want dissolve ancient and dying on its own order.

Show Jon went there for what? For queenslaying? Well, show Daenerys wasn't crowned yet, official queen of Westeros at that point was Cersei and little Hitler speech after her death still didn't mean that Daenerys was an official queen, there were ought to be some ceremonies, blessing of church and etc. Oathbreaking is not punishable, as far as I can remember, lawbreaking is. And after what she did to King's Landing I don't think there are gonna be debates on whether he broke the law or it was the lesser evil or whatever. Jaime didn't go to the Night's Watch, and in his case no one knew about Mad King's evil plans. Sure, there gonna be some displeased people - in show they were Greyjoys and Daenerys's army. Like yeah, let's pass a sentence for Stark-Targaryen (show)-legitimate heir - the most noble man in whole damn Westeros - based on Greyjoy's complaints and accusations of some former slaves.

But sure, let's say that it's all me rambling about the show. Let's say that GRRM will do it differently - the way that his "punishment" does make sense. Maybe even the Night's Watch will make some sense, idk.

So let's get a look on some themes.

My biggest issue with the Night's Watch ending is about Jon's death. He died, his watch had ended - that's it. He fulfilled his purpose on the Wall, he kept his ridiculous vows. Returning back to the Night Watch in this case is not ironic or tragic - it just cancels out the whole his Night's Watch arc. Like, what's the meaning of words "My watch has ended" (and I think that phrase is gonna make it to TWOW) if Jon gonna return? It has no weight.

It also cancels out some foreshadowing from the first books. Like - remember how Catelyn said that she was glad Jon joining the Night's watch and having no children to mess up with her grandkids birthrights? What's the irony in that? Everybody was happy Jon went to the celibacy order being sorta exiled and 7 books later he is exiled and stays in said order? You know what it sounds like? It sounds like another failed character arc in the show - Jaime's. You know, how he started with loving Cersei unconditionally, had his own emotional journey of trying to un-love her and still ended up loving her unconditionally in the end.

No, it's not how GRRM writes irony.

Let's take a look on yet another character arc, shall we?

Sansa Stark.

I think we all can agree she will end up as Queen in the North, no doubts here (forshadowing + political arc + show and stuff). So we got ourselves a pretty finished character arc.

She starts in Winterfell wanting to go south, wanting to marry some noble handsome southerner, to see tournaments and to be a part of royal court. Along her journey she does all that in the most twisted way and understands that there's no place like home aka Winterfell. So she returns there and stays for good. What's the irony in that, you ask? Well the irony is that if things went the way they were supposed to she wouldn't enjoy staying in Winterfell for the rest of her life I think. A girl with southern looks who likes stories about knights and tournaments, who loves songs and minstrels wanted to go away from Winterfell where there is no tournaments and no minstrels. She enjoyed her staying in King's Landing until Robert's death. She didn't complained about the heat and she didn't express any home sickness. She wouldn't want to go back to Winterfell so much if things didn't go wrong.

See - that is this kind of irony and tragedy we can expect from GRRM for his main characters that will make it to the very end. Yes, the character ends up in the geographical position she was in the beginning - but in this case it completes her journey, not cancels it out.

I wish we can look into some other characters, but we know almost nothing - because none of the endings in the show (aside Sansa's) makes sense and I don't want to give the show too much trust). Some of them are just ridiculous (like Jaime's) and some we just don't have enough information about (like Bran's) - but still we can make some assumptions about Jon.

I think the kind of irony they were looking for is not "Jon thought he was good for nothing but the Night's watch and he ends up just like he and everybody around him always thought - good for nothing but the Night's watch". I think the appropriate amount of irony is "Jon always wanted a lady wife, children and Winterfell for himself even though he had no chances to gain all of that, and against all odds he ended up in Winterfell but for impossible price of Robb's life and knowledge that his whole life was nothing but a bunch of lies".

After all, ASoIaF is not about senseless tragedies. It is about hope. Yes, our favourite characters sometimes die or end up not being somewhere they would prefer. But also the tragedies happen to them not because of some evil fate but because of the mistakes they made (and killing the totalitarian Daenerys just doesn't look like one). ASoIaF is actually very hopeful. Villains are dying the most ironic way possible, they do not escape the westerosi karma. Heroes are still kind and hopeful - even after all of her courting and marriage failures Sansa still hopes to find love and some sort of happiness in her future marriage. Jon still hopes to reconnect with his family after all the times people said he should forget about them. After all those years living in dishonor Jaime finally has a hope to be a little bit honorable about his oath to Catelyn (even through Brienne). Azor Ahai is supposed to bring everlasting summer. The Night King is supposed to die so that he can't proceed with Long Night 2.0. The Winter is coming but after it came it is spring on the way. Goddamit - the last book in series is called A Dream of Spring - and it sounds hopeful af to me!

See that?

ASoIaF starts with tragedies. But it doesn't have to end with one.

At least I'm hoping so.

Sure, GRRM still can write whatever end he wants to. Jon still can end up in the Night's Watch. GRRM still can write his ending the way that it will make sense. But at this point it sure as hell doesn't - neither in show nor in books.

Case closed.

Martin loves circular endings and irony though and endings where history rhymes. So Jon back at the wall makes a ton of sense thematically. I remember watching the show before even reading the books and when we we found out that Aemon, the maester at the wall, was a Targ and came to the wall/became a maester almost in a self-sacrificial way to not cause any problems re future claims to the Iron Throne my first thought was 'Yeah, this is gonna be Jon's endgame. Aemon is his mirror character and he will end up back at the wall repeating history.' Low and behold 8 years later I was right lmao. A lot of Jon fans don't like his ending because they think he's a hero and good guy so he doesn't deserve to go back to the wall. The nature of tragic or ironic endings are not about what characters deserve, half the characters in the books didn't deserve what happened to them, that's what makes it tragic and ironic.

Aemon, the maester at the wall, was a Targ and came to the wall/became a maester almost in a self-sacrificial way to not cause any problems re future claims to the Iron Throne

Why must you hurt me this way?

'Yeah, this is gonna be Jon's endgame. Aemon is his mirror character and he will end up back at the wall repeating history.'

Stop, I beg.

Low and behold 8 years later I was right lmao.

Listen here, you smug bastard! 😂

A lot of Jon fans

I am of the variety

don't like his ending

it fucking sucks, but go on

because they think he's a hero

wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head --> Longclaw descended

and good guy so he doesn't deserve to go back to the wall

NO ONE DESERVES TO BE AT THE WALL IT IS A CORRUPT INSTITUTION USED TO UNJUSTLY PUNISH BOYS! FORCED VOWS OF CELIBACY ARE WRONG! THE IDEA OF PREVENTING SOMEONE FROM FEELING LOVE IS STUPID AND TAKING THEIR FUTURE FROM THEM IS VILE! (*screams for 17 minutes*) AND ANOTHER THING-- (*slaps myself*) —I'm not overly fond of the Watch, now that you mention it.

The nature of tragic or ironic endings are not about what characters deserve, half the characters in the books didn't deserve what happened to them

Oh. I guess I could have read the whole ask before gnawing on my dresser.

that's what makes it tragic and ironic.

*gasps* You smart ass! Lmaooo. I did not see that coming from the beginning, I'm so impressed you called it that early on! And before you knew he was a Targ? Or had you clocked that by then too? That had to be the best feeling that while the rest of us were bitching and moaning you were like, tell me something I didn't know from s1. My gosh. The people you watched it with must have been so annoyed with you! Wait, if you knew Jon was Aemon-ing, who did you think would rule in the end?