#also theres dynamics im just like 'its not a ship truly... im just not normal about them but'

[anawkwardlady]

i saw an umineko ship ranking I almost did it but my ranking would be the most boring thing ever because most of the time with shipping im just "idc, cool but whatever" AND there was not all the options....

[yanderomantic]

Hey!! 1, 2, 3, 9 & 13 for the ask game? 👀

what got you into proshipping? -- politics. i started educating myself on marxism, dialectical materialism, i realized that pushing towards censorship is a conservative view, that in practice its the most disenfranchised members of society that get censored--people of color, trans women, queers of any flavor. in a world where the definition of pedophilia is getting expanded to include open trans women in florida, im not comfortable equating the exploration of dark fiction with child abuse. theres real world political impacts to this pedojacketing shit that harms the oppressed before the privileged, and im not taking part in it. also--we should normalize discussion of dark topics, in order for victims to feel safe processing their traumas--theres a lot of traumatized people stuck in anti circles who are too afraid of admitting the complicated truths of their trauma because the mere discussion of dark topics is such a deep taboo. theres a lot of social and political benefits to destigmatizing discussion. also i became staunchly pro-kink for about all the same reasons as i mentioned before, and in my mind kink & dark self shipping is basically in the same boat--imaginative play with dark themes & power dynamics.

what got you into selfshipping? -- friends! i mean, i always enjoyed daydreaming about my favorite characters, but i didnt realize there was a community to partake in until my pals got me into it. thank you lav ^_^

who is one of your your first/oldest f/os? -- good question! i mean, theres the characters ive adored since childhood that i spent my time daydreaming about, maybe even making ocs for--flippy from happy tree friends was probably the first character i properly self shipped with before realizing what self shipping even was cuz i was like, 9... but i had made ocs id project onto. the first few characters i decided to call my f/os--when i was first introduced to the self shipping community--will graham & herobrine, though i dont really self ship with herobrine & not sure if i ever truly did, i just liked him ^_^

9. who is a f/o you want more content of? -- not too sure! i have a couple that dont have a lot of content, but im not too pressed about it--mr robot, from mr robot, is a character i really really really like but the fandom doesnt explore him in the ways id like for it to. hilbert from w359 could definitely use some more content that appeals to me, im a little picky about my interpretations of podcast characters though.

(and i got your other ask specifying you meant 14! i assume you meant 14 over 13, so i'll answer 14 instead (: )

14. do you prefer romantic, platonic, or familial f/os? -- my familial f/o's have always meant the most to me & have brought me the most comfort. crowley from supernatural most of all. supernatural as a source has been deeply important to me in many ways. and then theres lucas baker from re7, who hits the sweet spot between romantic & familial both! which is a very very awesome spot for an f/o to be. i need more incestuous f/os in my life i think itd fix me whats kinda funny about platonic f/o's, if i like them enough they either start branching into romantic territory or familial territory eventually. like a few other spn characters, like kevin who i started crushing on, and um. jack. who. um. Well we're kind of incestuous. thematically. It was unavoidable. jack kline parallels me too much and his (biological) dad is grooming me so. It happens. we started having some kind of codependent sibling incest even before i accepted that im proship. it was unpreventable. Love you jack kline forever

(and yknow what just cuz i love talking ill answer 13 too)

13. do you create self inserts to be more like you, or an idealised version of yourself? -- it depends on how im feeling/who im feeling like when i get into the source/make my s/i! or, depends on the source and how it makes me feel. of course my spn self insert is pretty idealized, yet true to myself and my emotional complexes--fallen angel turned demon, but is still pretty bad at being a demon. and my re7 self insert is pretty true to my teenage self while being very much inspired by who i am today at 23. kind of an homage to the teenage self i couldve been if i was less lost in my identity. the self inserts i made for media i got into 2020-2022 are pretty different from the self inserts i make in 2024, because im just a different person. each self insert is kind of a snapshot of a person i once was/used to be/used to want to be. ive got a couple self inserts that are more idealized than others, like an au version of my spn self insert that gains her angel status back--very confident, reclaiming her femininity, revenge against abusers--a type of person i once looked up to, but i dont really idolize her the same way i once needed to. im always ever growing & so are my self inserts--ive got trans men, cis women, butch dykes-- all self inserts are versions of me ive been or can be

[probably-haven]

after binge reading i have come to a new revelation: I’m not a fan of most Xiaoven fanfics

Don’t get me wrong, I love the ship and its one of my favorite to think about.... but most of the fanfiction for the ship just- doesn’t sit right with me for a number of reasons. 

Disclaimer: these are personal opinions from my own taste and are in no way an attack against any authors out there, because frankly fanfic authors are great and not like i could do better lol. As these are personal opinions, I acknowledge here and now that a number of people disagree and that they are under no obligation to change their opinions in any way as it is not and never will be my intention to tell others what they should be thinking That said- read at your own risk if you want- meh, anyway-

time to share some opinions that have been on my mind lately

The biggest reason.... is how they handle Xiao. And I don’t even mean mischaracterization because Xiao is such a complex and yet simultaneously simple character that as long as you’re somewhere in the range of “Xiao vibes” it’s really hard to write him out of character because of his complexities. What I mean is something that i actually completely agree with as being accurate to his character. In nearly every single fanfic I’ve seen, there is some element of idolization that Xiao has for Venti, or for the sake of reference, Barbatos. He tends to think himself beneath Barbatos and/or indebted to him, whether that be because he’s an archon, because he saved him, or simply because of Xiao’s tendency to dehumanize(yes i see the irony in that word usage) himself.  This by itself isn’t an issue but its often how this trait of his is treated.

Imma just list a few ways I’ve seen this be handled within Xiaoven fics. - It isn’t handled, it’s just there and accepted as a part of who he is in the story - It isn’t handled but his trait is treated as source of humor within the story - Venti(and others) roll with it (finding humor in it, just cant change it, encouraging it, making jokes about it, etc.) - Venti takes advantage of it(whether accidentally or purposely) - it’s actually addressed(by Venti or someone else or the narration- can go a number of ways, but just- even a brief reference to the fact that its not a good mindset fits in here) - savior!Venti(Where venti disagrees with it but the way it’s written gives off “god among mortals” vibes- like he’s just being humble and truly is above him in reality) - its the focus of the story  - not directly addressed but shown to be destructive.  - they chose not to not include this in the story’s characterization of Xiao(just saying that this is valid ahead of time) Theres others but i have a lot already.  Note that I tend to read more ‘serious-toned’(idk if that makes sense) fics so that may skew my perception

Now there’s a few that i have issues with on their own- both instances of it not being handled, Venti(and others) rolling with it, Venti takes advantage of it(purposely(and without good intent)), and savior!Venti. Xiao not only has this trait, but he is unfamiliar with what is normal in relationships or emotions as a result of isolation and inexperience. He is also either not aware of or not concerned with what is considered strictly “healthy.” Combining these makes for a rather dangerous combination and just accepting it as “oh he’s just like that, it’s who he is” or making it out to be something funny- It’s not wrong or bad by any means necessarily, and I could still possibly enjoy it to an extent depending on a series of different factors, but its- not as often.  Even in the case where I do enjoy reading it however, I would still feel uncomfortable sharing it with or recommending it to others because in the first instance it feels like normalizing a destructive and dangerous mindset, and in the second case it does the same while simultaneously making a joke of it. It’s the same deal with Venti or other characters rolling with it, but that’s probably gonna be mentioned later too. Not to say that this is a “wrong” way to handle it, that it makes the fic bad, or that authors even are normalizing anything by doing so, just that in my specific instance- not a fan. 

I’ll get to the others when i talk more about Venti, but for now: It’s the focus of the story. I think I saw like... 2? where the story was like- focused on this and why its a problem which- power to them, address those real world problems like a boss- but also i wouldn’t actively seek it out or anything- like, good job, but doing so just leaves it open neutrally for other factors to decide how good a story i think it is. 

not directly addressed but shown to be destructive. You’d think i wouldn’t like this- but frankly in fanfiction not everyone wants to address every character flaw verbally because it can through off story, narration, dialogue, and general flow to do so. This can be with an event, an action, a dialogue, a mere comment, making it actually fit into the it’s actually addressed category except that its- subtle enough to make its own category. plus i live for show not tell- in everything- its a thing. im- very much a fan of when the fics do this but the subtlety is easy to miss and its not common so- 

It’s actually adressed- doesnt have to be a lot- just mention anywhere or imply anywhere that maybe idolizing someone as a god and savior and being in a relationship with them while having little knowledge of standards, emotions, relationships, or healthy behaviors in general- maybe isnt the smartest idea in the word. (”Call me Venti, not Barbatos” by itself is not enough to fit in this category tho as a note)

-

Now lets talk about Venti...

uh.... those who have followed me for awhile will probably already know this but... I have a lot of opinions on Venti and a pretty- “niche(?)” perception of his characterization that isn’t shared by a lot of others- so I don’t actually read as much Venti fanfic in general as you might expect because I often end up disagreeing with how writers portray him, which again, in no way is their characterization wrong, but- “their perceived truth” conflicts with “my perceived truth” and by extent so does the characterization, though neither is any more correct than the other from an objective point of view, if that makes sense... but anyways now that that’s said, moving on before this becomes a philosophy lecture, as fun as that would be for me.  I’ll try to keep my “perceived truth” out of this for the first bit. 

Venti’s response to this: 

He rolls with it: this depends on the mood of the fanfiction. If they dont put a lot of stress on that trait of Xiao’s it totally fine but if the trait seems to be a major part of Xiao’s character, it seems like normalization once more. (more on this later)

he takes advantage of it purposely: if its an AU or something and Venti’s like a villain(i saw a few) then- villain venti isnt my cup of tea but i have no qualms. If they don’t portray Venti in a negative light while having him take advantage however that’s a bit uncomfortable to read for me because it feels like normalizing taking advantage of that mindset as well as the mindset itself. However, i did see a number of instances of Venti using it as leverage for like- self care- which i definitely have no qualms. Xiao: [insert probably destructive idolizing statement about being indebt] Venti: How bout you pay me back by actually sleeping for once smh or other variations are okay and depending on the vibe are actually a really fun dynamic as long as it doesnt turn into romanticizing or normalizing it, y’know?

Venti accidentally taking advantage of it.... I love angst- and in most of these theres a sense of guilt when he realizes- and i just think thats a lovely way of addressing the dangers of such a mindset for both sides. As long as it doesn’t keep repeating to the point of romanticization its totally cool to read in my eyes(not irl ofc). If Venti never realizes he accidentally took or is taking advantage it feels a bit like normalization, and if he does but just- doesn’t care thats- a rip.

savior!Venti...... i- i hate. the story giving off vibes that Xiao’s mindset is technically correct while Venti oh so humbly tells him to treat him as an equal like the wonderful and charitable person he is.... i just- no. of course thats over dramatizing it- I think the main thing that gives it this vibe is when Venti doesn’t seem either concerned, surprised, uncomfortable, or otherwise have a negative feeling towards Xiao’s mindset. Just- it makes the whole thing weird in my eyes when Venti doesnt really seem to have his own reason to oppose the mindset idk- 

-

fact time!

Venti is the god of freedom. His backstory is freeing Mondstadt from a god’s tyrannical reign. His origin is a windsprite, just another breeze bringing changes for the better. His form is a nameless boy who played an instrument and then died, thus failing at his only dream and only ever accomplishing anything because of the help of others. He slept for a thousand years after the archon war to avoid putting Mond under the rule of yet another tyrannical god. He only even became a god because Andrius chose to let him. He wouldn’t have even had that chance if the nameless bard had survived, he’d remain just another wind while his friend ascended to godhood. Venti sacrifices his own power for his people’s freedom. 

now that I’ve laid out a number of canon facts, time for opinions:

Venti has little to no desire to be seen as a god. He thrives in, comes from, and emphasizes a lack of superiority in quite nearly everything. The first Ragnvindir, who canonically turned his back on Venti after Decarabian’s fall, likely did so because one- he anticipated power would corrupt and Venti would soon become just another tyrannical god, two- he suspected Venti used the nameless bard in an attempt to rise to godhood, or three- idk insert other possibilities to acknowledge again that i could totally be wrong.

Look me in the eyes and tell me Venti wouldnt trade godhood for his friend in an instant. His godhood was only granted to him because his friend died and could easily serve to constantly remind him of what could have been and what he lost. Venti takes no enjoyment from being seen as superior and in my opinion, I feel that it could actually make him largely uncomfortable when his divinity and abilities as an archon get involved-

also self promotion for my favorite posts- check out #archon war era venti if thats interesting to you

so anyway Venti rolling with it or making jokes about it just doesn’t sit right with me.- 

-

Okay! enough talking about that mindset!

idk- i have... a few/lot of other gripes and stuff or just things that kinda throw off the vibe for me but that’s the main one plus my general personal pickiness when it come to Venti fanfics- but this has gotten long enough already- 

idk i just felt like rambling about it and i haven’t done a long post in a while so-

again, I love the ship and its actually one of my favorites- just the fanfic isnt my thing..... that doesn’t mean i don’t still love it and come up with a whole ton of brainrot and ideas on it tho lmao

[curedeity]

For the bingo: kyoko and/or mami?

While i may have surprisingly few boxes for kyoko colored in, its not from a lack of love. Kyoko, imo, is the best redeemed villain character ive ever seen. Its not about her apologizing to sayaka or whatever, its about her slowly understanding sayakas worldview and growing closer to her, how their differing philosophies intertwine as the world slowly beats them down. Kyokos redemption arc is just her choosing to change and try to help sayaka, such a simple thing and yet masterfully executed. Its even more impressive when kyoko really only had 4 episodes in the show to execute all that. Saying she didnt have enough screentime is a bit tough, especially considering what a short and tightly plotted show pmmm is, but i really think kyoko couldve used a few more scenes to show what she does when shes alone, shes normally only with another character.

She does work very well off of whatever character shes paired with though. She and sayaka have (imo) the best dynamic in the entire show, what with how much they impact each other and how their dynamic builds up over time. Kyoko also has great chemistry with madoka despite having only one episode together. I know theres a manga of her and mami somewhere which i really want to read. (Rebellion spoilers for the rest of the paragraph) I also love how she and homura get to grow close in rebellion. I just wish rebellion had given time to kyoko and madoka, and kyoko and mami, but it isnt a huge problem.

Basically, i love kyoko a lot and what she means in the series. Her arc is incredible and she works well off of anyone she comes in contact with. The only problem is that i think the show doesnt give her a chance to show off what she can be like solo.

Mami. Gosh, this feels lkke payback for me giving you her. Shes such a hard character to describe.

First off minor point not everyone is wrong about mami im mostly joking bc i really hc her as aroace. Shes got so many aroace vibes. Shes the character through which i truly understood what relationship envy was. But i dunno if i wanna say all her ships are bad or anything yknow. They just dont work for me. So mostly that point is kinda a joke.

Also ghsjfnnsks so hard to choose whether shes wasted potential and not enough screentime. To say those things would i think imply something in the writing wasted her, and i dont think so. She is a character with very little of an arc, very little time, but she dows a lot in that time and is incredibly important to how the rest of the show plays out. Plotwise, i think shes used perfectly. I think what redeems her short tome is that they strongly characterize her in short moments. That scene in episode 10 reveals so much about how mami views the world, and makes so much sense. Not to mention how much they let mami do in rebellion. Its clear they have a strong characterization of mami and show it off whenever possible.

She did get done dirty by the creators though, she did not need to be fanserviced in rebellion. Shes a middle schooler.

Other than that i find her very interesting to think about but i will admit she is my lest favorite magical girl in pmmm. Which means shes still an incredible character, but the weakest in her cast.

EDIT: i forgot to mention i love her dynamic with madoka but idk if thats necessarily where she works best. Its just fun.

[theunconcernedembalmer]

what’s the issue with elisop? is it just bc you hc aesop as ace? im so concerned by seeing ppl adamantly opposed to mlm/wlw ships but im also genuinely curious about why you dislike it and other lgbt ships so much lol

hmm. that is a strong accusation, n i find it just a bit odd. are you new here? or perhaps you are taking personal offense at my dislike towards a favourite ship of yours and using the lgbt argument as moral high ground?

whatever the case may be, i thank you for asking. if u r truly looking for an answer, its below the cut n it is very very long. mind u these are all my personal opinions n i am in no way policing how others enjoy ships. just in case this wasnt clear; i dont wish to start discourse on this blog, especially since my takes are probably... unpopular.

firstly i would like to address the “disliking lgbt ships” bit, because this has very strong implications in itself. i have nothing against lgbt ships. i enjoy them, even. if the two characters have chemistry between each other, i ship it. however, the moment characterization is broken for the sake of romance, i lose interest. this is generally my stance on ships in general, n this applies for both straight n lgbt ships. 

the ships themselves are fine. however, i do have issues with the ship dynamics, so ill let u in on that.

i want to touch on mlm ships in particular; i believe u are familiar with the top/bottom dynamic that is rampant in these kinds of ships? (i wont deny that this dynamic can be found in other types of ships, but for arguments sake i will be focusing on gay ships because i feel that this occurs more commonly here) its such a popular dynamic that is prone to stripping the personality from one if not both characters, only for them to be reduced to being dominant/submissive. for a character to be pigeonholed into a stereotypical category based on... preferred sexual positions? its just downright insulting, never mind the larger more problematic implications of it. top/bottom is not indicative of someones personality, by the way. flattening multi dimensional characters into these stereotypes is so so so insulting.

unfortunately this is The Most Popular portrayal of just about any gay ship around. ive seen it being used everywhere in so many fandoms n it just about becomes apparent to me that ppl come to stories looking for a Ship. not the stories, nor the characters, just a ship. while id like to say theres nothing wrong with that, keep in mind not everyone is just looking for 2 characters that look pretty next to each other. if i ship something, i see interesting n meaningful interactions between 2 characters, which is so often not the case once u bring in the top/bottom dynamic. why is it so popular? because somehow this is what ppl like from a gay ship n hence it sells. ppl want the drama, characterizations be damned. ppl want to see the big kiss that happens in the end, n maybe the sexy parts that come after. characterizations be damned.

so u can say im a little wary of gay ships when they cross my feed. hell, as a joseph aesop shipper i see this trope everywhere n im pretty disappointed as well. small tangent but i feel like this is the reason why zh0ngli n ch1lde is so popular in g3nshin. i try to see the appeal, i really do, but after a long while of analyzing their respective characters i dont think they have as much chemistry as ppl think they do. dont even get me started on how incredibly ooc they make either of these very interesting n unique characters in ship portrayals. all because of the top/bottom dynamic that ppl want to see. i say this for that particular ship, but this is pretty much the case for a lot of ships out there, n the latter part is painfully true even when the 2 characters do have potential between each other. ill say it again im disgusted by the blatant disrespect to the characterizations if all ppl ever want is 2 pretty puppets to mush lips together. cos thats what theyre essentially reduced to this way.

n its so obvious to see when an artist subscribes to this rhetoric, because u can so clearly see it in the way they draw their characters. the “top” generally has sharper features to go with their “dominating personality”, while the “bottom” has disturbingly softer, feminine, dare i say sometimes child like features “to submit”. n thats where the uwu soft gay trope comes from, i believe. which, in case u still dont know, i hate with a burning passion.

so again for ppl with impaired reading comprehension, im fine with ships, including lgbt ones, but the moment u break characterization for the sake of the ship, im not that okay with it. u want to do it for a short crack comic? fine. but if thats the only way ur portraying the 2 characters then im immediately wary of ur content. ill still look at it cos usually the art is really good, but im very very wary. so im not “adamantly opposed”, just very critical of how the ships are being portrayed. if other ppl want to enjoy their ships like that, sure. just dont expect me to join in on something i dont agree on.

.

now id like to address not shipping “because i hc aesop as ace”. for ppl who are new to the blog (hello there), im an ace in a romantic relationship, so thats definitely not the reason i dont ship elisop. its more of being in a relationship has largely shaped my views towards romance as a whole. even before i met my boyfriend, i hated the romance genre in stories n media. most of it comes off as incredibly forced, especially those love triangles they seem to love putting into teen novels. thats one reason why i stopped reading when i was younger, but i digress.

did i partake in shipping when i was younger? i did. for a gay ship too (if anyone really wants to know, its kurotsukki from haikyuu. at least this was one that i can remember, i was mostly working on my 20 odd ocs for the longest time). i also used to write little short romance ficlets that i never posted anywhere cos i hated (n still do hate) my writing. but writing romance when u dont have experience was really just a way of projecting n probably a way of coping for myself, not that i knew at that time. but after i actually started a relationship with my boyfriend (whom i love n cherish a lot thank u very much), i began to see how much all these have skewed my views towards romance n have actually done some harm to our relationship. the bullshit that the general media feeds u constantly doesnt help in the slightest either.

quick topic shift to elisop in particular (about time, right?). i already stated that i only ship characters if i sense chemistry between the two personalities, n if u have seen the part where i dont ship elisop then u must have seen how agonized i am over not being able to have a concrete personality for eli. that is the main problem i have with elisop: eli does not feel like a solid character to me. n that is a huge problem, because if he doesnt have any defining characteristics besides being mild n nice, then he can be whoever i want him to be. (i have done this in my exorcist comics, i will admit this. n the fact that i can just do that... it really does not sit well with me personally.)

n that is dangerous.

back to young me doing lil ship things. i think its also pretty safe to say when u really do ship 2 characters, chances are u kinda really relate very very hard to at least one of them. that very quickly can turn into projecting, n shipping therefore is not “exploring the relationship between 2 characters” n it becomes “my preferred dating simulator 101″. of course this isnt always the case, but at least it was for me, n subconsciously it might be for lots of ppl too. n since this is ur mental playground, u call the shots, n there is no consequences if u slightly (or even entirely) alter one or both personalities to fit ur desired narrative. n u wouldnt even notice or know, cos ur blind to ur own biasness.

we bring our perceived notions into real life, im sure u know that. so when ur partner does not become that perfect knight in shining armour, or when they get upset at things that u do (which is a very normal thing by the way), n u think (very subconsciously), That isnt what my otp would do, something is wrong here (nothing is wrong, actually its just ur skewed perception of a stable romantic relationship). why wouldnt ur otp do this? because u are both halves of ur otps, there is no hidden secrets between them (apart from the pining part but thats irrelevant), n again they have been altered to fit ur preferred narrative. 

a real relationship requires a lot of communication between parties, because newsflash, liking someone doesnt mean that u have to like every single thing they do, they will make mistakes n it will hurt u, n guess what, the reverse is also true. if u do go with absoutely anything that they would do with 0 objections whatsoever, ur not crushing on someone, ur idolizing them, n that power imbalance is detrimental to a relationship. these things are not obvious to ppl, especially when the whole climate is hell bent on getting into romantic relationships by a certain age or some bullshit. communication is key n is pretty much the only way to solve relationship issues, because the other person has a lot that u r not seeing n vice versa. as similar as 2 ppl can be, i doubt u can have 100% the same thoughts on all things. i dont make the rules.

so in ur mental playground u focus on the fluffy parts, maybe there is communication, but rarely is there any meaningful conflict. thats unrealistic, n if u bring that mindset to an actual relationship, thats not going to end well. i say meaningful conflict, because yes, generally u shouldnt have conflicts with ur significant other. but inevitably when ur with each other for long enough, u will realize that there are habits that u must change in order to be with the other person. habits that are harmful to the other person directly, or harmful habits towards yourself that indirectly harm the other person. these are meaningful in a sense that if left alone, it will manifest into larger problems that will harm u, the other person n the relationship as a whole. its meaningful to the relationship.

all these is made even worse if ur neurodivergent. maladaptive coping practices, self sabotaging behaviours, inherent disabilities. all these must be adjusted n addressed. im so incredibly thankful for my boyfriend for being incredibly patient with me when working all these out, n it has not been easy for me to work on myself n all my problems, n im still not done working on them. this aspect is often not explored in romance in general (or properly), n there is a very good chance i would have still been stuck in the unhealthy mindset of “this isnt like my otp, maybe we’re not meant to be”. because loving someone is a choice. no one is made for each other, it is a conscious choice made between 2 ppl to make things work. this is how arranged marriages work, i am told, n i do see the appeal, not that it actually does appeal to me culturally.

special mention to the kurotsukki ship, cos from there i found a very, very good fic that explored their relationship before n after getting together, n it actually showed aspects of this problem in the incredibly slow burn of (at that time) 20+ chapters. it was just one fic (n a very good one at that, i believe it was called Leviticus), but it had a lesson i never thought i needed to learn, n learn it i did, with a lot of help from my dear. 

this is also probably the reason why i dont really want to delve too much into romance now. i know its a lot of work, n everything (mostly) that the media feeds u is really false advertising, but ppl eat that shit up n so it remains one of the most popular genres to date. im just very wary that if i do start on a romantic story, i want to be able to show it in a way like that fic did, the truths of relationships, because i dont want to make something that sells, i want to make something that meaningful to me, if a little indulgent. n that also includes being very careful in how the respective characterizations will change in a relationship. almost too careful now that i think about it, but its not something that i mind. i was never one for romance from the start, n now im very careful about shipping because of what happened to me persoanlly.

okay enough about me, lets talk about aesop. in any au u put the character in, the essence of the character must remain despite the change in environment. so lets say we have ur typical modern au. dead mom, check. shitty mentor doing illegal stuff? also check. autistic boy with social anxiety? we’re good to go. all these have implications on aesop as a character, n while ppl are aware of this, again the way they go about portraying it can go, in my personal opinion, very wrong. ppl who immediately woobify aesop completely because he has autism annoy me. ppl who reduce him to uwu soft boi cos he has social anxiety do not know how the disorder really works n as someone who has that i hate it to the core. ppl who do all these for the sake of ship have lost my respect. its insulting.

remember the top/bottom dynamic? not that elisop is completely free from that (even if i dont know much about eli, to put him in either one of those stereotypes feels very insulting to his character. i wont even say anything about doing it to aesop its so upsetting), but its not entirely made up of either. but now i want to introduce another trope i am very wary of, which is “i can fix him”. im sure u guys have seen the meme going around poking fun at this trope (for those who havent, its along the lines of “u can fix him? well i can be his worst nightmare”) n no doubt yall would have seen it n gotten sick of it in some forced hetero romantic bullshit. we have one damsel in distress with a saviour that solves all their problems just by existing n being romo with each other.

remember “my preferred dating simulator 101″? this is not mutually exclusive n from my point of view this is dangerously close to this trope. lets be real, if it was actually a thing that all ur deep rooted trauma magically disappears if someone were to waltz into ur life, we would want it. definitely. no painfully dissecting ur own problems n constantly facing them head on. real life states that this is not the case, but it will not stop us from dreaming. n so this trope is born n lives n will go on.

(finally) pulling aesop n eli into this, at least in my mind, u have one severely traumatized boy with lots of issues n u have this. nice mild guy who can be anything u want him to be. i hope u can see where im going with this, n thats the direction i see some elisop heading towards (i dont read a lot of elisop to be fair). if u came from my eli character talk, i mentioned that it is incredibly one sided. this is exactly what im talking about.

putting it all together in case u havent already, aesop is the damsel in distress, whose problems magically disappear because of elis godly kindness n little to no work on improving himself, n they lived happily n gayly ever after.

can u tell how much that does not appeal to me. 

never mind the butchering of character that inevitably happens somewhere somehow, the unrealistically perfect themes n implications of this trope makes me so viscerally uncomfortable. this is, of course, due to personal reasons, n i definitely see the appeal of this dynamic because i would probably have been interested in this once upon a time as well. but as i am now, with everything i have explained up there n everything i have been through, i would politely rather not.

n its difficult to think of another dynamic, because of how little i know about eli apart from him being this saint, which easily makes him a candidate for being aesops trauma panacea. never mind aesop rarely, if ever, does anything for eli as a character in return, n its so damaging to buy into this rhetoric, where a person like this who would solve all ur issues no strings attached exists somewhere in the world. they really dont. a relationship has to be mutually benefitting, or it will be draining n disastrous. maybe u say, Oh its nice to imagine it once in a while. n yeah, i agree, except once in a while is a little difficult to keep track of n that is sort of what happened to me. id rather stay as far away as possible from this kind of unrealistic fantasy, i just got this shit sorted out with myself n my boyfriend.

i have some other reasons, but theyre more personally problematic, so i wont go into them here. but this is mostly n generally why i do not ship elisop romantically. if u do, u do u, and have fun, but again dont expect me to join u. thank u for coming to my ted talk, this took a lot longer than expected.

[cheylouwho]

irt what one anon just said, and like i kinda hold a diff opinion than you on some of this but not in such an extreme way i’d like fight u on it lmao just Would Like To Discuss/throw in my two cents for consideration, but i feel like framing matters a lot in these arguments about content. most (can’t say all as there are definitely exceptions) people aren’t saying its a direct like ‘see someone in movie kill people -> im gonna kill people now hehe’ influence when people talk about how media effects reality. its more about like why propoganda has been effective, where when you frame things as good/desirable/okay in subtle ways and that normalizes them as ideas. if a narrative is framing something as bad (ie how south park is satire and often shows lots of bad stuff but usually makes an attempt to point at how the bad stuff is Still Bad And Stupid) and just exploring the topic (such as with like. abusive/toxic/problematic ships, i dont think its fair to be like ‘none of that at all!’ bc there are interesting dynamics to explore and analyze that don’t romanticize it, and like thats totally cool!) like i have never had a problem with that. that doesn’t fall under the ‘media effects reality’ the same way because the point of that media isn’t to encourage that behaviour.

But a problem comes in when people romanticize that type of content and perpetuate bad stuff as being okay, and i’m not even saying censorship is the best answer, but if theres gonna be no censorship then there need to be a lot more safeguards to keep content like that away from kids on sites like ao3 which do also host pg content. if it was like an exclusively explicit/adult site then sure go buckwild my dudes, but when they have all ages content it really should be stricter about tagging requirements. because man i have seen so much untagged incest porn come up when looking for pg stuff not related to that AT ALL even with tags filtered (and not even for sp, ive been involved with other fandoms more recently and the one im talking about here is not even an adult-oriented series like sp is), and like I’m an adult who can deal with it but that shit is damaging for kids to be exposed to. like i still support ao3 as a website in general but i absolutely don’t think they’re beyond criticism, ya know?

Ok anon I really do respect and appreciate you come in here very calmly and opening a discussion and I will absolutely love to open a dialogue.

I will agree with you on the first part, yes it’s not black and white in any sense. I’m really fired up so I’m going to the other extreme but I do recognize that it’s not that simple. There absolutely is areas where it does become gray and it’s not as easy to say “all or nothing”. I wouldn’t say fiction Doesnt affect reality because there are aspects that do, but you are right that a lot of the time that statement is taken to the extreme and people completely equate it 1:1. Honestly I believe that as long as no real life person is being hurt and those safeguards are in place (proper tagging and warnings) like go wild. “Romanticizing” is a very opinion based statement too so it really does depend on the person on their interpretation of a work.

Ao3 does have policy about tagging works and using the proper rating system, so that is not a problem with Ao3 themselves but with the people misusing the platform. I agree, works need to be tagged properly or at least using the “chose not to use archive warnings” tag so people know things inside the fic are freegame. Ao3 *does* have the way to keep kids out, in the same way a porn site would- there is the warning about explicit content right before you click into a fic. If you click that button you are either Lying about your age or agreeing that you are okay to seeing the content. (also again my library argument, published books dont have that luxury). I don’t think it’s beyond criticism either and there are improvements being made all the time (again, it’s run by a team of dedicated volunteers) but ultimately calling for something to end that can be really truly avoided by not even looking at the website is the ultimate beef I have. I am all for improving the site and making that content easier to hide, or harder for minors to get into, but ultimately again a kid could go to the library, grab a book and read just about anything. I think in some ways ao3 is *better* in that sense. Not perfect, but something worth protecting.