#all the ocarina of time references are really cool

[aikoiya]

Huh! Maybe it's just an American version thing? Though, if so, booo! Not nice Nintendo!

Also, oh my gosh, THANK YOU!! YOU'RE A GODSEND!! I've been losing my ever-loving mind!

Like, the fruit still has some of the most creatively bankrupt names I've ever seen, but at least I have a frame of reference!

And thank you so much for the link!!

Also, yes. Psychonauts is very interesting & a little bit crazy. Though, it also has some really dark stuff, but it mostly only turns up if you explore & go out of your way to find everything & 100% the games (which, to me, is totally worth it). But what I love is that the subtext sort of gives you insight into how the trauma of the characters affected them as individuals. Though, you also get a bit of a similar environmental storytelling experience from games like Persona 4 (with Shadows) & 5 (with Palaces). Both feature this whole “getting a look at one's inner world” sort of thing & I eat that stuff up. Though, you're not always gonna get things told to you explicitly. It's more so something you have to look around the environment. Or, you can watch analyses on YouTube. Always fun to listen to someone else's interpretation of things. Like, it even goes so far as there being a power in the game that can let you literally see how other characters view Razputin & I just find it super cool because almost every single characters, plus numerous animals, each see him in a way that gives you a bit of a hint as to their relationship with him & I love that!

Also, don't listen to Sasha Nein. Those lamps are beautiful & it's just his childhood trauma getting the better of him.

But, I'm not going to go too deep into it because I fear spoilers.

Hmm… Sounds promising. Whatever helps with the worldbuilding.

To be fair, the Door of Time would likely only open the once in order to let Link out, then would shut & be unopenable without the other stones & the song. (I mean, why wouldn't it have an automatic lock mechanism without the keys to opening it present? Similarly, it has to open from the inside, otherwise that's just shit building code.) As such, so long as Ganondorf wasn't literally there at the exact moment that Link was sent back & left through the door, I don't really see too much issue. And, my guess is that the time was specifically chosen because Ganondorf wasn't looking.

I will say that I do sort of view the Master Sword as being fairly important to how Link traveled in OoT, otherwise I don't think it'd be quite such a big deal of him utilizing the sword as a means of travel. This is part of why I hc the Master Sword's handle & the Ocarina of Time as both literally being made of the Timeshift Crystal from SS. Because then it gives a bit of “oh, I see!” To the whole thing. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so important for Link to pull the sword from the pedestal in order to go forward & for him to return it in order to go back. For all we know, it acts as a sort of anchor to bring his consciousness back to him.

So, yeah, I think you've figured out a cohesive means of explaining what went down in OoT that leaves as few wrinkles as I can see! 👍

Now, I can also sort of see the Triforce being somewhat unaffected by time too, but that's mostly because of its role as a representation of the literal creators of Hyrule's reality. So, to me, this means that it likely exists outside of time, at least to a degree.

Thank you! I really enjoy finding plausible explanations to things & I just really can't help but wonder who it was that built the qānat if that is, indeed, what allows that spring to flow?

Same! It would've been so neat to have a Farore centered game & I hope that, if they ever do remake the 2 Oracle games, that they take the chance to also make the third! Though, I think they should go with something like “Oracle of Mysteries” or “Oracle of Runes.” That way, there won't be any confusing it with Oracle of Seasons the way it would be with the commonly hc'd “Oracle of Secrets.”

Really? Hmm… I was thinking that it'd be the building itself, which would also include the restaurant inside of it, but I guess that the brasserie should have its own name, huh?

Let me give it a think… Maybe something with shells or pearls to represent being sort of the “jewel of Lanayru?” Maybe even have the food served in large, cleaned out clamshells? NO!! The shells of Shell Blades! With silver & nautilus shell wine flutes! Oh! I just found a picture of some that are near perfect!!

I think that I'd need to give the stems some pretty designs to spruce them up a bit. Though, nothing too extravagant. Just something pretty, but stylish. Like… Maybe make it look like the shell is being balanced on a spray of water, like from a fountain? Simple, but elegant. Though, they also NEED to have shell wine baskets on a sort of coral base.

Also, a single chandalier made from sea glass, pearl, nacre, & shell.

Anyway, what about la Perle de la Lune Brasserie du Clos or la Perle de Conque Brasserie du Clos? I was looking for a good reason to use moon, but I couldn't find the right place to put clair de lune. But I think this is fine.

Either way, I really like it! Plus, it can also be a reference to the Moon Pearl of LttP.

Thank you! Much appreciated! Always grateful for the gentle linguistic guidance!

Also, I had zero idea, but I now completely refuse to change it from Marée-Chant, because I love that not only did I somehow manage to make a pun, but also one that's super fitting! So, yeah. It is now an intentional pun! :D

True, at the same time, you could possibly try to find ways of spinning the Zelda sightings in a less jocose way. Oooo! I do know of a comic that shows a great way to depict the sort of havoc that the Yiga taking on Zelda's guise probably had on Link! Especially involving their hideout on the Great Plateau!

But it's a long one! Arggg!!

I'll come back with the link to it if I can! It's really good!!

Hmm… For the Hateno Village quests, maybe have Reede mentioning the increase in monster activity alongside the Gloom & the return of the Blood Moons & have him mention how he was keeping the election going in an attempt to try & help keep the citizen’s minds off of things. Possibly insert a bit of an undercurrent of unease that's most visible when no kids are nearby. But even the kids know that SOMETHING'S up, just not quite what, yet. Ya know? Possibly even have it so that Reede is sort of exaggerating his end of the Reede/Cece conflict for that reason. (Which, btw, I'd still keep the whole Cece Hat thing, but have it so Link absolutely roasts her regarding the hair & make-up choice. Like, shame her. Because, good grief Cece!)

Also, you may wanna consider having Reede set up a curfew, that way, you can maybe make the nighttime attack of the Stals on the Sun Pumpkins into a more serious issue. Like, it isn't just the pumpkin patches they're attacking, but the town itself. Possibly have some of the new militia set up at what's left of Fort Hateno to do what they can to curb the bulk of it? (Btw, why is there no Stalynel??? And, can you imagine actual elemental Lynels? And a Staltantula boss in the Depths? That'd not only be so flipping cool, but also complete nightmare fuel!!!)

But, regardless, if it was too peaceful for your tastes, try shifting the tone so that it's more of a strained, maybe even slightly delusional peace? Think about it this way, these people had been tormented by the Calamity for 100 years & only recently did that nightmare end.

It wouldn't be surprising if a lot of the civies tried to keep up a veneer of peace in a vain attempt to try & maintain hold on the fraying edges of that tranquility. (I think I've brought this up as a possibility already, just with Zelda...)

Now a dungeon in Necluda is an idea I can get behind! Love that idea!

Oh, heavens! Yes! Absolutely, same! Like, don't get me wrong. I don't mind strong women or tomboyish girls or maybe 1 or 2 strong women that aren't interested in relationships. But not the absolutely flipping wave of them that we've had lately! And, you know what? Yeah, I'm very similar. It's part of why I made my oc the way I did.

Actually, I'd like to bring up something that someone else mentioned a bit ago! Did you notice the hairstyles & designs of the Gerudo in TotK's past? If you notice, most of them weren't really very feminine. And, this suggests that they probably weren't dressing to “attract the male gaze.” But, (& this is me switching to canonical TotK game talk) if that's the case & the Gerudo had also been in a war with the other denizens of Hyrule before Rauru came like I theorize, then this makes you wonder how they were getting males.

Just something to think about. Like, I know what my theory is, but I'm not so sure how dark you wanna go with their portrayal. Because, trust me, I can go SUPER dark. 😈

I tend to think similar, personally. But, for me, I tend to look at examples where a singular old man defeats an entire professional women's soccer team IRL & think quietly to myself that, despite being much taller than most male Hylians, I actually think that a single well-trained Gerudo vai would only be around as strong as a single well-trained Hylian male. And, she'd likely need to utilize her greater height against him to win. But, once more, that's just me.

As for the Rito, I tend to think that the scales from Valoo was how the Zora were initially transformed & that this new design for them is just how they evolved afterwards. Not in that this is how they evolved after WW, as I know you're not going that route, but more so that maybe something similar happened that required some of the Zora to transform into Rito in your timeline. And then, after that initial transformation, generations pass with the Rito slowly gaining more & more bird-like features alongside the remaining Zora also further evolving.

And, I actually think it's a great opportunity to have the Ancient Sage of Wind, alongside the Ancient Rito being much closer in design to WW Rito, so as to showcase that there was a change. Same with the Ancient Sage of Water & the Ancient Zora being closer to either the OoT or TP designs. Or maybe even have Zelda discover that there were once 2 tribes of Zora with the Zora of the modern day being the descendants of both?

Remember that your gonna be sending the girl at least 10,000 years into the past. Also, something else to play with? The possibility of the Ancient Goron still learning Ancient Hylian, because they had only recently resurfaced from living in Gorondia. So, I’d like to think that they’d be learning the language.

Also, I totally see Zelda frantically creating a sort of underground study with a vault of specimens, including seeds, maybe even have a few smaller critters in containment cells? Ooo!!!

Oh, wait… I forget… You're not doing the Secret Stone thing, are you? If you were, I'd have suggested making it so the Stones just sort of enhance their powers & gives them a specific ability like the ones in the game, but that it doesn't prevent the owners from learning other abilities of a similar nature. So, I guess that what I'm saying is that Zelda could've learned how to use Stasis after lmastering Recall, ya know? Though, if you're having it so that the Sheikah Slate is still a thing, maybe you could make it so that she figures out a way to use the Stasis Rune to make those containment cells. That way, she can sort of… Oh, gosh! I think that I'm essentially creating an entire dungeon! One based on Noah’s Ark! But one that travels the sea of time! XD

What if that's the dungeon in Necluda?! What if it's this massive facility in the Necluda Depths that's essentially a massive museum, library, zoo, & botany vault! That's totally the sort of thing that Zelda would flippin' do!

Anyway, I get what you're getting at with not wanting to make the Gerudo outcasts, but eeeh… I dunno. I guess that I feel like they're outcasts anyway & that it's kinda because of their own choices. Like, just their culture as an all-female race that keeps their daughters seperated from their fathers is going to make them as such.

Though, for me, part of the reason for my depiction of them as being cursed is somewhat so I can have that curse broken eventually. Like, to me, it's really little more than an opportunity that I'm trying to use in order to highlight the fact that they once had even worse practices & that it resulted in karma coming to bite them. However, because of that & their humbling, there's supposed to be a slow progression of their depictions over the timelines being something like a case study in how all cultures, all societies, have black spots & things to be ashamed of. But that it doesn't have to be the end &, in fact, the Gerudo are much much improved. So, there's hope.

You know a sort of race wide redemption arc!

As such, my point in it is, I guess, using it as motivation for the Gerudo to improve as a people.

Also, & I know it was more of a joke on your part, but at the same time, if you do go with the idea that the Sand Goddess made Gerudo voe so that the vai only get something nice to look at every hundred years, then you should probably consider how that would affect the voe, as well as the overall perceptions of the vai towards males in-general because of it. Specifically, imagine it from the perspective of the voe. What if your creator made you to have no real purpose beyond looking nice? Imagine that your entire existence revolved around that alone.

Depressing.

And if this were how it was, then the default preconceptions of the vai would automatically be, "men only exist for the enjoyment/use of women." Like, not even for the sake of reproduction because, again, like you said, they didn't need men to reproduce. So, the voe wouldn't even really have that until after the Sand Goddess was killed. And then, well…

The concenssus would likely have become deeply rooted in their ideologies (case in point, that one OoT Gerudo who mentioned that she thought Ganondorf was the only man worth anything). Then, it might've eventually resulted in a culture of misandristic exploitation not unlike one particular depiction of the Amazons of Greek myth. Possibly even culminating in a few generations where the 1 voe sort of becomes what amounts to a slave king & the designated stud for that specific generation. Likely even acting as a kind of feminist reversal of the orientalist harem trope. (And yes, I am fully aware of how yeesh that sounds. Because it IS.)

Also, there's the question of if the Gerudo were made to never need men & the centennial voe was little more than eye candy, then why the legend saying that he was destined to be king? Why the worship in OoT? Literally, how did he get so bad in OoT, HW, & TotK???

Does the legend refer to a true king or more so a pretty figurehead in a pretty crown? Like, maybe he was instead meant to act as the Gerudo queen's handsome arm-candy? A trophy husband or a sort of proof of her legitimacy as queen? Maybe even it being said that a vehvi produced from 2 Gerudo was thought to be exceptional or usher in some sort of Golden Age for the Gerudo.

I'm not saying don't. Just... maybe be aware of the implications these sorts of choices have & prepare yourself accordingly?

And, this one is more out of personal curiosity than anything: What does this choice say about the Sand Goddess? What did the choice to create the Gerudo as nothing but women with only one male every century, where the vai, rather than mating with men, instead went to the Sand Goddess in order to reproduce: What does it say about her & her intentions?

Why did she decide this? Did she have bad experiences with males that led her to do this, possibly believing that she was sparing her creations from grief? Is she an example of a tragic biggot? In this case, a misandrist who legitimately hates males of any kind, believing that they were the source of all the ills in the world, & wanted to create a species where they were commodities & treated as lesser? (An example of Tragic Bigotry. A very interesting way to make the typical bigotry thing more complicated than just “bigots are just jerks, who cares why?”) Or did she do this so that the Gerudo would be forever reliant upon her?

While it may not seem important, you'd actually be very surprised how it can spawn new ideas to explore the underlying reasoning behind these sorts of decisions.

Heck, if you go the route of the second choice, that could easily end up being an underlying reason to why Ganondorf can almost never seem to escape from his role, because in this case (though she likely wouldn't have meant it as such), it could be due to the Sand Goddess' perception of men becoming the basis for Gerudo voes' nature. In such a situation, Gerudo voe would've been created to be subjugated. Otherwise, they risk becoming too ambitious & devolving into demons. Because it would literally be the subconscious belief of the Sand Goddess, which could’ve bled into her creations without her realizing it.

Now, again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I think it's important to at least acknowledge the thought process.

And, one final thing. I don't know if you brought this up before, but I think it's something that you’ll likely need to keep in mind when characterizing your version of Ganondorf.

Namely, how much of the Calamity did he have control over?

And, I need to really bring this into perspective. This… it was absolutely horrific.

Judging by the population density map, the Calamity resulted in the deaths of upwards of thousands of people.

And that’s no small number. Castle Town was sundered. And 7 entire settlements were destroyed, leaving Central Hyrule completely unpopulated. And Deya was the largest of them, but according to what I’m seeing, literally no one survived Deya.

If that’s the case, then that doesn’t just mean soldiers. It means E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E…

Like, just take a moment to meditate on exactly how utterly horrible that is.

That means men, women, the elderly, the infirm, children, infants, pregnant mothers. Yes, I know, it's horrible. But, it's also canon.

Like, & I'm really sorry for this, but I really do think that it very much encapsulates my thoughts on what happened in the Calamity. Guilty of Wrath

Warning, it's actually pretty graphic.

Like, for me, I just think that it's really important to really take in the full scope of what happened & to properly characterize the Ganondorf that caused all of it, to ask just how aware he was of it all.

Because, I'm seriously considering making this part of my official canon for Meeting One's Match. (Not the part where Link is dead, but most everything else? Yeah, though I'm thinking of letting Rauru take the place of Link in this. Let him be the petty one to deal the final blow to Ganondorf’s psyche. However, now that I'm thinking about it. I may make him backed up by Sonia & the other Sages, then just before they leave, the Sage of Lightning points behind Ganondorf & he snaps around… Only to be met with a veritable sea of spirits… And he's suddenly forced to acknowledge the sheer amount of death that he caused… Ooohoohoohoo! This reminds me of a REALLY amazing one-shot idea I had! But we can talk about that later!)

Like, in my interpretation of events, I'm sort of making it so that he doesn't really know. As in, he was sealed underground &, I guess, sort of allowed his Miasma to run wild with a mindset of “just break everything. Break all of their toys,” but he never really thought about the full concequences of that choice. Never thought of the implications of his own words in certain scenes or what their logical conclusion would be.

So, in my story, one of the final hurdles that he's going to need to face will, in a way, be himself.

As, I'm sort of going with the idea of how hatred is an insatiable beast that keeps demanding more & the more you feed it the bigger it gets until you suddenly realize that it's taken on a life of its own & you no longer have any control over it. And I guess that I feel like it's important to nail down whether your Ganondorf really knew what he was causing. Like, for me, if he knew & was aware of the full scope of his crimes & was… I dunno… unaffected by it, then I just don't think that having him care about the Gerudo will be realistic. Like, it takes a very specific level of psycho to knowingly commit that sort of just… Horror.

Like, the Calamity was outright a flipping genocide, man. The Guardians weren't stopping. They would've eradicated Hateno too, which would've, at the time, left only Shadow Hamlet, Lurelin, & Tabantha Village. And we don't even know if they would've stopped with Hateno. We don't know if they would've stopped until the only one left alive was Ganondorf himself.

So, I feel like it's kinda important to establish whether your Ganondorf was genocidal in a very literal way. If he was, then I just don't see much hope for him coming across as any degree of sympathetic.

@aikoiya The post was getting long again so here's a new one!

I knew you were going to answer that saying "this is unfair" isn't real life logic haha (and I agree that life hasn't been fair to Sky and Sun anyway). It's just that such an ending would probably leave me feeling unsatisfied and even a bit robbed, and I think it would require a lot of other changes to be made to the story in order for it to work properly. But anyway you're right, as things are now this would just be happening behind the scenes so what I'm saying doesn't really make sense. But just thinking about it changes my perception of SS in a way I don't really enjoy, so it's not a theory I favor.

Yes in that setting I'm pretty sure that the other Sun would not make herself known to Link and Zelda and would let them have their happy ending. But I think Zelda would likely suspect her existence and know that something is wrong. I guess even Link could notice that the Temple's doors are suddenly open and would ask Impa a few questions.

I had no idea Tingle called Farore the Goddess of Wind in WW, so I went on a little quest to see if I could find the same quote in the French version of the game. Apparently it's in Tingle's description of Outset Island and I never had the chance to play with the Tingle Tuner mode. I can't find the same quote in French anywhere and I don't even know if this was included in the HD remake (I guess I'll have to wait for a Switch version to find out… if they ever release one). This has me wondering if this quote isn't something exclusive to the English version, but I can't be sure and I'd like to know what the original Japanese text says. The French wikis mention that Farore is the Goddess of Wind in WW but don't provide any quote, it just looks like the pages were translated from English but that they couldn't find the same quote in French. It's really frustrating!!

Anyway that's a bit weird because WW already establishes Zephos as the God of Wind, and he seems to be a minor deity compared to Farore. The way I see it, wind is just the element that Farore tends to be associated with, and since a lot of myths might have been lost with Hyrule in WW this could just be a mistake on Tingle's part. I mean this is the game that gave us the Golden Triumph Forks haha.

I'm not limiting Nayru/the Golden Goddesses to a singular domain, quite the opposite ^^ To me Nayru being the Goddess of Wisdom includes different concepts such as order, law, science, magic, etc., and even time (since she's introduced as the creator of the world's fondamental laws), while calling her the Goddess of Time doesn't include all of that. That's why I wrote that I found it a bit restrictive. But sure she could have both titles, the same way Farore could be known most commonly as the Goddess of Courage and also called the Goddess of Wind in some situations.

Oh I didn't think of the blocks from OoT! I would say though that they don't really use any time powers, they're just random blocks that appear or disappear for some reason when Link plays the Song of Time (it's just as absurd as playing the Song of Storms to open holes in the ground haha). But yes they were blue and associated with time, and of course Nayru is too. The difference with Hylia in my theory is that Nayru created the rules of time (if that makes sense) among other fundamental laws, while Hylia's power specifically allows her to manipulate time and foresee the future. In a way I see Hylia as Nayru's spiritual daughter who inherited some of her powers over time (and that's why the color purple she's represented with is very close to blue).

The Master Sword has also been depicted as either blue or purple though, so that asks the question of the true color of all of these things! Nayru is definitely linked to time so it makes sense that the timeshift stones are in Lanayru (and Hylia also doesn't have a province named after her).

"From the edge of time" could definitely just be a poetic way to say that Hylia kind of recorded a message for Link before dying haha. But I find it interesting that she would phrase it like that, I like to see it as a clue.

Well if Zelda simply sent Link to a point further back in time, wouldn't there be two Links existing at the same time in the Child Timeline? But sure Zelda creating a brand new timeline also raises a few questions that kind of... make my head hurt. I'm not sure what happens exactly, I've always wondered! All we know is that Link finds himself in the Master Sword's chamber with the Door of Time already open, which hints at things happening in a different way this time (because he definitely doesn't have the three spiritual stones and the Ocarina of Time yet since this is before Ganon's coup, and the ending seems to imply that this timeline's Zelda doesn't know him yet). That's why I believe Zelda might have done something a bit more complex than sending him to a point further back in time, but there's no way to be sure. The Triforce of Courage is also visible on Link's hand during the ending, and we also know thanks to TP that the Triforce is still separated in the Child Timeline despite Link and Zelda preventing Ganon from entering the Sacred Realm this time. So maybe Zelda isn't able to change everything? It's complicated haha.

Anyway, whether OoT Zelda creates a new timeline or just sends Link further back in time, that's still huge time powers and that's not something Link is able to do by playing Zelda's Lullaby.

I also believe it is more likely that Talon inherited the ranch. True, Talon might not always have been so lazy, but maybe if that was the case the game could have hinted at hit. All we know is that he leaves his daughter alone with Ingo and only comes back after Link deals with the situation, which does not make him look so great. And he only promises to work harder after that.

I'm kind of bad with names so I'm impressed you're going through all of that trouble to rename the settlements!!

I haven't gotten to developping the technology that much yet, but I'm really interested in seeing what the different races could do with it! I love the idea of using the Sheikah to infiltrate the Yiga bases. I wish TotK had done something like that and shown the Sheikah helping Link that way.

Same, I was so excited when I heard about these pirates… and then so disappointed to find nothing more than a bunch of bokos with no backstory.

Vignoble is not related to noble (though I kind of make the association in my mind, especially since vignobles are sometimes called châteaux).

Yes I thought you could maybe use clos! Aquaticlos is funny, it can work! Though maybe you could use the same logic as for the raisins (I love this Raisins de Terre idea by the way, it makes sense!) and say that what the Zoras call a clos already refers to something that's underwater, since that's probably the case for most of what they cultivate.

I don't mind helping you with French, I'm glad to do so! You put so much effort and thought into this, it's really interesting.

[ponett]

imo the most annoying thing about the zelda timeline is the fact that you can't even mention it casually without people crawling out of the woodwork to complain about it and tell you how they think they made the whole thing up on the spot to troll fans

like, i get it. it's silly to care all that much about where four swords or oracle of ages or whatever takes place in relation to the mainline games. the exact placement of the NES games is kinda arbitrary. it doesn't particularly matter. there has been lots of pointless nerd rage over these things. but literally every mainline zelda game since the '80s has been openly presented as a sequel or prequel to another previous game. lttp was called a prequel. skyward sword was always framed as the origin story. the opening of wind waker recounts the story of ocarina of time. they wouldn't keep doing things like this if the stories were never supposed to be connected at all, if they didn't think it mattered a little. it's easy to get lost in the weeds of the timeline stuff and overstate it's importance, but it's there

on the flip side, i actually do think breath of the wild's approach of saying that it's so many thousands of years in the future that all prior events are treated as legends containing some mixture of truth and fiction, with references to all three timeline branches to drive this ambiguity home, was really cool! that's a clever way to wipe the slate clean and simplify things without doing a full-blown reboot

but then totk is like "okay now let's talk about the imprisoning war and the founding of hyrule." and i go on twitter to wonder out loud what the game is trying to make me think about this. whether it's trying to do a big reveal about the imprisoning war that was referenced in previous games, or if this is all still just the story of a new version of hyrule in an era after all the old games had faded into legend. and i'm immediately inundated with replies saying the timeline is stupid, they made it all up for hyrule historia, they never should've published a timeline, OBVIOUSLY they've always just been doing unrelated retellings of the same legend, etc. etc. just for trying to engage with the story and figure out what it's trying to tell me in these lore dumps that the entire plot centers around. it's insufferable

[journalsouppe]

Mwah Mwah Mwah I love you the Adventure of Link <3 You're a tough game but you don't deserve all the hate you get. OUGH yall i love this game so much the soundtrack slaps incredibly hard

Genuinely one of my favorite Zelda games esp in terms of lore and musici, if I grew up in the 80s and played this this game would've been my special interest for sure

The stickers are from the ALTTP sticker pack by Comstock Cafe and I just took the stickers that were the most generic to use for this game and the original Legend of Zelda ^_^;

Writing typed below!

Rating: 8.0 Played: Sp 2023 Port: NES Switch Special Edition (YES I PLAYED THE EASY VERSION I WAS TRYING TO BEAT THIS BEFORE TOTK)

Comments

Initial thoughts: reminds me of the claymation mythology movies (aka Jason and the Argonauts and Clash of the Titans)

This reminds me a lot of Joust

little link statue <3

this feels nothing like a zelda game

(in reference to above comment) the mechanics are a little off putting but this is actually a very zelda game, it takes getting used to but i'm enjoying it

I'm actually really obsessed with the zelda II lore and story, love the magic system

omg the iron knuckle

interesting bosses! it would be fun to see them return

damn gooma was so hard

wolfheads can burn in hell

I like how much the future zelda games are insp by this game!!!

how would you ever know how to find new kasuto without a guide T^T

FUCK WIZZROBES

-> they were't too bad in this game bc you can actually block them (I hate top down wizzrobes and hate a visceral reaction lol)

i absolutely love that you can turn into a fairy, this should've been a reused mechanic

"this is the first game where Link shape shifts as well as the first game where the process is voluntary and beneficial" oh my god T^T

I love how Barba/Volvagian returned in Ocarina!!!! LOVE!!

I FORGOT THE CROSS

It's funny how Link can't swim in these games so he walks on water instead

items collected are used in the overworld

I love this game a lot actually

the mega demon looking bubble?? T-T

the regional differences are really interesting

the design of the thunderbird is crazy cool

love the shadow link fight also insane you don't get to heal and replenish magic

zelda and link having 2 different styles is so funny, link looks so goofy

This game had a massive difficulty spike compared to the original The Legend of Zelda game. However, I loved this game so much and you can see how much influence games like OOT and TWW took from it. The music is incredible and iconic, I love the enemy designs and their grittiness, and I love how despite never playing this game before, I had a lot of nostalgia for it bc I played Joust as a kid. This was a great sequel for its time and continued the story well -- Link has gotten 2/3 of the triforce pieces and rescued zelda and defeated Ganon in the first game. Now he has to complete multiple trials in order to get the triforce of courage and save zelda from the past. The end fight being a 2 boss rush AND the true boss being the shadow of youself -- AKA the hardest boss in the series if you don't cheese the battle, it's great what an incredible idea. And OOT used it again with another incredible idea -- reflection, conquer yourself. Are you a true hero if you can't even outmatch, out wit, out last your own self, your own shadow? UGH as a huge OOT fan I just loved this game and seeing all the influence it had. I'd def play it again in the future.

[saria88]

The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom Impressions

I completed Echoes of Wisdom, so here are my impressions. Spoilers included:

Gameplay:

The dungeons are a true return to form and I'm quite happy about that.

The Echoes were fun to use and led to amusing situations like Zelda sleeping anywhere and some enemies jumping into lava. I liked backing enemies into a corner with multiple Echoes.

I made a conscious choice not to use sword fighter form unless it was needed for progression and I think I was better off for it, particularly for boss fights.

The world was very nice to explore though the villages felt a little small to me.

Good variety of enemies and bosses.

Story:

It was interesting that being trapped in a rift took away Link's voice. I figured that if he got it back there was a chance he would say something as the big shocker. He did as I expected. Though we didn't get to see what he said the reaction of the characters to it was priceless.

I loved that much of this game was a love letter to Ocarina of Time. Though despite all the references Saria or the Kokiri still didn't show up. Sad.

I also felt that the Deku Tree could have been a bit more involved.

It was nice to see Deku Scrubs though. Their part of the story was fun.

It amuses me that Gohma once again got some characters addicted to substances it created. What group will it go after next?

When I saw the holes of lava in the Eldin Temple boss room I said to myself "Is this really going to happen?" I had the biggest smile on my face when Volvagia appeared.

I was also very happy to see that the Goddesses were involved once again. It was mind blowing to me that the creation story was expanded on in a such a way.

Null was a very interesting enemy. It was really cool to see that the entire world of Zelda was created as it's prison, making it the catalyst for many things in the entire series. I ended up feeling bad for it when it was revealed it simply enjoyed the peace the void brought it before it was taken away. I kind of wish Zelda had come to a compromise with it.

Protect Conde at all costs.

Overall I enjoyed this game a lot. It delivered with most of the elements that I felt Tears of the Kingdom was lacking in and was a very enjoyable experience. I feel a bit more confident about the future of the series if they choose this as the template to go forward with and keep improving on it.

[olibensstuff]

literally I share all of these thoughts and op already said it BUT THE STILL WORLD!!!!! IS SO!??? TWILIFHT PRINCESS!!!!!!!! Not even just visuals THE MUSIC IS REFERENCING THE TWILIGHT THEMES I’m soooo normal like that on top of the squares coming off of the land twilight style oooohhhhhhh

ONCE AGAIN 27 DAYS LEFT. Here is the new Trailer.

My thoughts in order:

Rip Zelda loosing her dad to the rift too

Into the rift we go and OMG SHADOW LYNEL

The Still World looks so cool. It gives me Twilight Princess vibes because of the petrified people.

Rude I wanted to see Zelda open up the chest

Setting the tree on fire and moving it was creative. I like the little taste of puzzles they are showing us.

Did Zelda… did she take a nap during the boss fight?? LMAO. I wonder if it heals you like when you sit in Skyward Sword. Zelda sleeping in the middle of battle and Link eating a three course meal in the middle of battle. I love them. (edit: It is for healing. Someone has informed me that you can hear the healing noise happen then and her hearts go up.)

All the environments look so fun. Still World regions that possibly reflect the overworked regions. I want to discover their secrets.

Boss Key chest spotted!!

A moving platform echo? How interesting.

Oh what was that spiral wind enemy? Not sure I recognized that one.

Not the angler fish out of water oof. If it works it works

Zelda you almost dipped ur toes in lava

Was that a jelly fish echo?? When she went up the water spout thing?

SWORD FIGHTER FORM (cough For everyone complaining about Zelda not having a sword, I bet you’re feeling foolish now huh cough)

Zelda in Link’s clothes and she’s holding the sword in her left hand and even does the little hyah

The hyah sounds like an echo, like I can hear Link's voice too. It’s like Zelda is channeling the spirit of Link. I freaking love it. 10/10 decision Nintendo

Hmm energy collection. It’s like the magic gauge. Also I wonder what the Lv 1 is for. Does that mean you can upgrade the size of the bar??

DAMPE IS BACK. Oh he’s making robots now? Good for him. Wonder how much they’ll cost tho.

What the heck was that slime monster thing?

Acorn guy… not as bad as tingle

Dojo Master (ah he’s back again). Wait why is the katana in the back sparkling? Can you use echo on it?

Parachute?? Oo do we get one?

GERUDO!! GORONS!! CATS!! GREAT FAIRIES!!

SHE CAN HIDE IN A POT

Did that water slime thing get bigger in the rain? Wonder what kinda puzzle that’s for

Yes fairy in a bottle

Oh shit they brought Volga back. Nice

PUPPET LINK!! WHAT HAVE I BEEN SAYING. LITERALLY JUST REBLOGGED THAT ANIMATION LESS THAN A WEEK AGO AND BEEN HOPING FOR THIS. WE CALLED IT GUYS.

In conclusion, I need this game right now.

[game-boy-pocket]

How has Ganondorf evolved throughout the series?

Well there's a lot of youtube channels that can show you that exact thing i'm sure. But I take it you want that in my exact words. But that will be a long one so buckle up... for that we need to go back to 1991. Back in those days, we only thought of Ganon as some kind of evil wizard pig. We didn't know he was originally a human. But A Link to the Past comes along and reveals that Ganon used to be called Ganondorf, and he was the leader of a gang of thieves.

Now, Ganondorf didn't appear in a Link to the Past, he was only ever mentioned by name... or was he? Because my theory is that he actually is in the game, going by a different name. That name being Agahnim, the human antagonist with an unusual skin color ( light blue in this case ) dressed in desert clothing, who earns the trust of the king, betrays him, is defeated by having his magic reflected back at him, is only able to be damaged by the master sword, and Ganon refers to him as his Alter Ego... as you pay attention to the history of Ganondorf, this makes a lot of sense.

Ganondorf would appear under his real name for the first time in the prequel to a Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time. Here he's the King of a gang of thieves who live in the desert ( which supports my Agahanim theory ), he has an unusual skin color ( green in this case ) who swears fielty to the King ( I guess we're not supposed to know he's the king of thieves yet? Or maybe this is one of those cases where the english translation doesn't cover some things, as i'm learning is so often the case ) who betrays the King ( where have I heard that before ? )

Anyway, Ganondorf makes quite an impression every moment he's on screen in this game, and even when he's not, as Ganondorf is the one responsible for all the happenings around Hyrule, you'd think the Zoras or the Gorons would warn the King of Hyrule or something but I guess they were too busy with their own problems, and Ganondorf is still playing softball, until he follows Link into the sacred realm to claim the Triforce. He's a pretty brilliant manipulator in this game, he continues watching Link until the moment he reveals Princess Zelda's whereabouts. He grows in power after the 7 year time skip, and ruthlessness as he's cusing problems in Hyrule that are now much much worse. I think he's still pretty sane here because he's not outright destroying Hyrule, he's keeping people alive as long as they don't oppose him. He's even having the likes of Lon Lon Ranch raise his horses. Also he gets a really cool design change after the 7 year time skip, it's a detail I really like that not a lot of people talk about....

oh yeah... and you defeat him by sending his magic attacks back at him...... where have I heard that before?

Anyone who beat OOT knows how it ends. Ganondorf is sealed away in the sacred realm and Link is sent back in time 7 years... but the power of that seal fades away over time. Ganondorf returns, and Hyrule is flooded.

Aged, tired, and desperate, Ganondorf takes up shelter in an abandoned Pirate fortress, clinging to what little relics of Hyrule he has. and gathering any monster forces he can reach, he sends his new pet bird, the Helmaroc King, to kidnap any girl in the great sea that they can find, in hopes that one of them will be the descendent of Princess Zelda, who would carry the Triforce of Wisdom. In a pretty unusual twist in the Zelda series, this Ganondorf remembers events from the past game, being sealed by the sages, name dropping the "Hero of Time", the title given to Link in Ocarina of Time. And he also opens up about his motives for obtaining the triforce. Jealousy and suffering. The harsh desert that was burning hot in the day and freezing cold at night was a living hell for Ganondorf and his people. He opens up to Link and even promises not to kill him despite holding a nearly unconsious Link in the air by his arm. This is very unusual but very interesting. He also comes so very close to getting exactly what he wants... the Triforce. Unfortunately, he does the thing a vilain shouldn't do when this close to victory, and he monologues. The King of Hyrule yoinks the triforce and makes his own wish before Ganondorf can touch it.

His defeat at the hands of the Hero of Time has cracked his mind just a bit, but he still manages to keep a pretty cool head up until this moment, where he just snaps. This battle kind of takes away the magic attacks. Those are still in the game, but is now mostly given to his phantom Ganon form. I kinda wish they kept some kind of magic attack in the final battle instead of just giving him sword and that's it.

Well Ganondorf gets a nice new pair of cement shoes at the end of this game. Or rather, cement everything. It's a fan favorite version of Ganondorf, and for good reason, it's probably the best.

Ganon is once again mentioned in name only in Four Swords Adventures. Supposedly he's not the same one from any of the prior games. Who really cares at this point. But in this game he is a younger Gerudo, possibly not yet the King of the Gerudo, who decides to break into an old tomb to steal some sort of powerful trident, presumably the weapon that changes him into the pig beast Ganon.

A quick side bar to talk about Ganon.... his origin seems to change from game to game and it kind of bothers me. We didn't know Ganon had a human form in the NES games but after a Link to the Past, it was assumed he became a pig demon because the Dark World changes humans into a form that reflects their heart... but then ALTTP had a prequel game, Ocarina of Time, where Ganon is just some kind of form he can take using the power of haltered. And the most recent example I know of just treated Ganon as a different entity than Ganondorf? It's so dumb and confusing. Anyway, back to Ganondorf.

In Twilight Princess, we're lead to believe there is a new Antagonist. A guy in black robes with a freaky metal helmet named Zant... but no, it's really more of a Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine situation, with Ganondorf being the Palpatine to Zant's vader... except Zant doesn't get a dignified redemption moment at the end.

We learn half way through the game that Ganondorf was the leader of a gang of thieves who was captured and sentenced to justice... and if you pay for a special collectors eidtion book, we learn that he was brought to justice for plotting to betray the King and steal the triforce, because the Hero of Time and Zelda ( as children ) warned the King about his plot before he could do it... this is... a very stupid way to handle connecting Twilight Princess's plot to Ocarina of Time, by simply not doing it until after the fact. But it is what it is... anyway...

Ganondorf is executed and sent to the Twilight Realm, where so many people were banished, they formed a society. But hatred and resentment lingered in the Twilight Realm, and Ganondorf was nourished by the power of that hatred and grew into a god...who made a deal with Zant, and escape back into Hyrule... or something, idk, the story is kind of wacked. Ganondorf is not as wise in this game because he didn't learn from his experience in Ocarina of Time, he was defeated earlier in the game.

Here, his magic is back.... kind of... he takes control of Zelda's body, and has a battle with Link very similar to Ocarina of Time. You have to reflect the magic attacks back at him... then he tranforms into Ganon,which is a bit strange to not save for last. Ganon, in this game, is very bestial. A quadruped, and more like a hybrid of lion and boar. It kind of reflects Link's tranformation into a wolf... then you have a horseback battle with him, then he falls off his horse like a nerd, and monologues again to save face, then comes at you with the same sword he was executed with, which left a gaping hole in his chest. It's pretty cool, but I have to admit, I really prefer magic weilder ganondorf to swordsman Ganondorf... you kill Ganondorf, who dies standing up, there's some cut dialogue that implies he will reincarnate for all time, which would have been better in my opinion than what they do next...

Side note... Ganondorf is so ugly in TP... especially the HD version.

Anyway, Ganondorf would not appear in a ( canon ) Zelda game for some time after that. Instead we get Akuma from Street Fighter as a final boss. Some big bad generic demon man who is just evil for the sake of evil, and exists at the beginning of the Timeline ( even though we already got a "origin of all monsters" story ) and HE is the one who says a reincarnation of his hatred will follow Link and Zelda's successors for all time, which I feel really robs Ganondorf of his agency and I hate it. I love Ganondorf as a character and this has done serious damage to him for me.

Anyway... there was also Hyrule Warriors but I don't remember the story of that game, something about a horny witch making the multiverse happen or something. Ganondorf had Super Saiyan 3 hair and I didn't like it... moving on.

Ganondorf was not in Breath of the Wild. I had my own theories about that. But Tears of the Kingdom threw a monkey wrench in that. I have not beaten the game yet, but I am getting the impression that when I do finish it, I will be left with more questions than answers.

Ganondorf in TOTK appears to be back to his old tricks of gaining a King's trust and then betraying him, but he's also not even trying to hide that he is in fact evil. Oh and also he's a mummy who can project an giant image of himself in front of the heroes to monologue, like Shredder in the Super Nintendo TMNT game. That's pretty sick... but the problem I have with this is that Ganondorf shouldn't exist in this game... unless I treat it as a different continuity than the main series... at least I think this will be the case... again, I have not beaten Tears of the Kingdom yet, but I am pretty sure I already know everything I need to and it's not going to solve my conundrums in a satisfying way, and I am just going to have to fix this broken mess myself. I will have to get back to you on all of this later.

But for now, that's my take on the evolution of Ganondorf.

A mater manipulator magician driven by a mix of jealousy and greed who aged into a desperate forgotten swordsman king, then turned into a generic evil overlord who was always destined to be an asshole, and now he appears to be a crusty old power hungry king that, I guess wants to actually destroy the world rather than rule it? I'm still unclear.

I really think he's not as appealing as he use to be, but I still like him.

EDIT: My god I sound like an idiot and I have made too many typos and grammatical errors and just generally poorly structured this whole thing, I can't be bothered to go back and fix it all.

[rotisseries]

OH MY GOD and ganon? like what’s his deal

ok so. again the more recent games don't have much ganon (of the 4 I've played, only totk has ganondorf, the man, and he's not super important story wise beyond being a guy to fight. botw's enemy is ganon, as a miasma creature of hatred, and skyward sword's enemy is demise, who is not ganon. technically. and then link's awakening is not a standard zelda plot. so no ganon) the older games have more ganon, so I'm working with largely secondhand knowledge, but basically... nintendo will not give this man any sort of depth. he has some? in windwaker? to my understanding, i have not finished that one. but windwaker takes place in a hyrule that's been flooded and ganon always has a really long lifespan so he was there when it flooded and his people were suffering and he was trying to protect them idk the specifics and I don’t know how well done it is but it's there. and then in the rest of the games he's just evil for the sake of being evil?? which, if meant to be because he holds the triforce of power is dumb, because if there's three pieces of something the logical story conclusion isn't that one is automatically bad it's that all three should join in harmony. duh. they won't give him a real motivation for evil beyond conquering for conquering's sake, so if he HAS to be evil I think it'd be more interesting if they made him a victim of demise's curse? like, demise's curse demands a vessel for evil, if hylia's descendant always has the triforce of wisdom and her champion always has the triforce of courage, it'd make sense for demise to take the third piece, the holder of power. so like what if. this guy was just trying to be a good person, a good leader, but knowing from history books, from every ganondorf that has come before, and the triangle in the center of your hand, that you are predestined for evil, that hylia's vessel and her champion will cut you down one day. imagine fighting it. imagine being unable to. I JUST THINK IT COULD BE REALLY FUCKED UP. (also imagine a ganon who is on good terms with zelda and link. imagine having to be cut down by your friends. imagine having to cut down your friend)

the real world reason they won't give him any depth though is racism most likely. so. ganon looks like this in ocarina of time (his first appearance as a man, prior games ganon was just a creature again)

I'm sure you already know what zelda and link look like. he's from a desert tribe called the gerudo (a race of all women btw ganon is the only man they have one man born every hundred years they make him king) who are, in oot, referred to as a tribe of bandits and whatnot they just steal and attack you, so it's like. it's pretty obvious what's going on here, and the gerudo are characterized better in botw although their character design is still very orentalist which is an issue that doesn't really show through THIS ganon's design but IS an issue I promise go look up the gerudo women it's the jasmine in aladdin thing all over again. anyway. so. nintendo this man could be so cool and interesting PLEASEEEEEEE

[thegeminisage]

ive done a terrible thing and accidentally turned on gloom hands for the map. i was only doing korok seeds/wells/caves/other bosses - i wanted shrines and hands to be a surprise, so i was just turning shrines on and off now and then to make sure i wasnt walking past any. but then i turned on hads to see how many there were and there's two in the next place im going for my korok seeds (crenel region). i would have rather not known :(

ugh man my compendium is SOOO empty...i miss the camera being on the first-person view. having it as an ability is so clunky! if i wanna 100% this i really gotta get on that bc no way do i or will i ever have the rupees to buy my way to victory

i looove btw, if i havent said. that if you kill an enemy while gliding/skydiving, you get the drops anyway. like they just appear in your inventory. VERY good

five bomb flowers in this chest! i appreciate it, but i almost have more bombs than arrows. (80-something arrows, 60-something bombs.) i got used to living without them. im a muddlebud girl now

ah i see. mining.

a well with nothing in it...there's gotta be more to it. haha it's the moor garrison ruins well so. that's a little joke. anyway im googling

okay, apparently google doesn't know shit either? surely there is something else here........

i guess not :/ bet i'll have to come back later...

WAIT I FOUND. STEPS THAT GO UNDERGROUND BUT THERE'S BARS HERE AAAA LET ME INNNNN

lmao the wall in the well is cracked can i actually bomb it?

answer: no

OH....................................

i thought ascending thru the ceiling would just take me back topside, but the well room was under this underground room! so i got in! ooough that dopamine. puzzle SOLVED all on my own!!!!

theres a treasure chest in one of these rooms, but the map tells me it's another fucking shield so im giving it a pass. i got the trick, thats what matters

shrine BELOW me? girl wtf

if i have to go back in that mining cave i just went thru.

ugh i checked and i DOOOO how did i miss it!!!

i DIED getting over there >:(

UGH and the enemies are back cuz of a blood moon :( i wasted 2 muddlebuds to NOT fight these guys...

i wish the totk fight music was better. i mean don't get me wrong, it's fine, but because of the way the soundtrack works the 3 songs i hear most often are the fight music, the shrine music, and the ambient bg music, which sometimes changes when in a snowy/high/watery area. i hear the fight music more than any other song and it gets stuck in my head CONSTANTLY and while much of this game's soundtrack is mindblowing and incredible, the fight music Is Not. it's simply not good enough for the song i'm listening to the fucking most. i'm already tired of hearing it and i'm only (checks) 95 hours into this game. ugh

>:( i'm mad that i probably won't be able to 100% it before i hit 100 hours...i wanted my whole hero's path on record...

anyway i found the shrine. finally.

NOT MORE OF THIS EVENTIDE SHIT

ugh i'm just gonna do it. honestly why couldn't they have just refined it to one island instead of microdosing us.......

COOL...there's a battle talus just patrolling back and forth along the road here!!

oh, a big tower fell over here...idr that from botw but i think it was in the trailers! neat

ok, i'm getting close to the area where the hands spawn :( i turned them back on on my map cuz im scared :(

oh man. so they spawn in these stumps full of water right...i can literally see those. they are so close to me. if i didn't Know i'd wander right in, unsuspecting...this is why i had that turned off. it's better not to know!!! than this anxiety!!!!!

what if i just...make them pop and then despawn them...

i can't do it. i can't. that is a TRAP i can see it's a trap those are high sides there's water like no fucking way. no way

GOD fuck a like like made a noise and i jumped out of my skin. the way the hands can scare you when you arent around AAAAAAAAAAAA

rauru settlement ruins...an innocuous reference to the ocarina of time sage in botw, but now...

i still have a few seeds left to get there and i know what i said about not doing shit today but i do actually have to do shit today. rip!

[longroadstonowhere]

hey friends, i beat the main plot of echoes of wisdom (so now i can theoretically do other things with my life, like... i dunno, dishes or whatever)

literally was just watching the credits, which ends with zelda's cat on zelda's bed (before panning over to the framed tri rod) and my only response was 'SHIT I NEVER TALKED TO MY CAT'

the cat suit was a very funny item that i used precisely twice (once for its introductory quest, once for a seesyde village quest), so i'm not surprised i forgot about it, but it was like i bolted upright out of bed with the realization that i could've talked to my cat, ahahahaha

anyway, the game is awesome! definitely more a traditional zelda game, which i know some folks were not interested in breath of the wild or tears of the kingdom's break from tradition (i enjoy them, but as a very different kind of game - echoes of wisdom is definitely something more like ocarina of time)

the amount of design callbacks and references for various parts of the world - like, obviously river zora based on alttp zoras, but sea zoras based on oot/mm zoras, and then the deku scrubs were very mm coded, but then we got more botw/totk style gerudos.... just, super great all around, loved doing something and going 'oh i know this a little already'

the echoes were pretty fun to play with, although i had like five or six i used constantly, a handful outside that for niche situations (like the wind cannon for blowing sand away), and i don't think i ever even used like..... sixty percent of the echoes, at least, ahahaha, but it was definitely a great way to allow for puzzle solving - i definitely know i solved at least one puzzle with echoes that was supposed to be solved a very different way, and i'm sure there are a lot of work-arounds and skips that could be utilized if you did it the right way

the story was so much fun, with link an ever-present but absent character, the same way zelda can be, and i love minister lefte and general wright for their names alone - of all the little dungeon-related zones, i think the deku scrubs and scrubton were my favorite, because they were just so uninterested in what i was about and fully obsessed with their own things, it was incredible (plus the stealth mission was pretty fun, even if it took me a looooong time to figure out what was expected of me, since i kept forgetting i could move things with tri)

oh, speaking of mechanics i didn't utilize, i didn't unlock dampe's whole automaton thing until i was doing my pre-point of no return clean-up, so i got the first automaton and never used it - by then i had enough levels on tri to have three basic darknuts as my standard attack squad, and hitting a different button to get one guy out seemed silly, ahahaha (i'm definitely interested in trying it out when i clean up all the side quests, or on my next playthrough, since there were definitely times where i would've loved to need one less echo on the field)

i also really liked the development of tri as a creature who just fully did not comprehend what people and emotions are, but figured it out over the course of the game, in a pretty subtle way all things considered, and like... i'm cool with a fairy character getting just enough character development to be interesting, but not needing to be the center of attention all the time, you know?

all things told, very glad they made this game, and i'm really excited to get all the side things and to play the game again some day

[givesonl]

Weekly Readings - Game Design Workshop - Chapter 4

Below are some points I've summed up after reading Chapter 4 of Game Design Workshop.

Working with Dramatic Elements: Dramatic elements like tension, conflict, and resolution make games more exciting. They keep players interested in the story and characters, making the game more immersive and unforgettable.

Types of Players: Players come in different types, from casual players to hardcore gamers. Knowing these types helps designers make games that more people will like, making them more fun and popular.

Concept of Premise: The premise is like the starting point for the game's story and how it's played. It lays out the main idea or theme and guides how the game is made. A good premise grabs players' attention right away, pulling them into the game world and giving them an idea of what to expect.

Characters in Games: Characters are really important in games because they help tell the story. They can be guides, friends, or enemies to the player. Characters are different from avatars, which are like the player's representatives in the game world. Good characters make the game feel more real and help players get emotionally involved in the story.

Story of the Game: A good story gives players a reason to keep playing. It makes them feel like they're part of the game world and helps them understand why they're on their adventure. When a story is done well, it keeps players interested in the game until they finish it.

World Building: World building is about making game worlds that feel real and interesting. It includes everything from the way places look to the people who live there and their history. When the world is well made, it makes the game more fun to explore and feels like a real place.

Examples of the Dramatic Arc: The dramatic arc is like a roadmap for telling a good story, with different parts like the beginning, middle, and end. Games like "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time" and "The Last of Us" show how this roadmap can make players feel really connected to the story. (Kate, H. 2023)

Conclusion: In summary, getting good at dramatic elements, knowing different player types, making a strong premise, creating interesting characters, and building cool worlds are super important for making fun games. When game developers use these things, they can make games that players will remember and love even after they stop playing.

References:

Kate, H. (2023). https://www.gamingbible.com/news/last-of-us-voted-greatest-game-all-time-201861-20230620

Fullerton, T. (2018). Game design workshop : A playcentric approach to creating innovative games, fourth edition. CRC Press LLC.

[the-carnival-of-time]

Now that I’ve been thinking about it it might be worth to go back to OOT for a bit, since I’m right at the Shadow Temple (which was my urge to GIF from the game in the first place lmao) and I feel like it’ll be worth being in the area of the Spirit Temple as well again. Work is kinda burning out my brain at the moment (bad dogs and hair splinters causing over stimulation), causing me to come home and do not even play video games just do nothing.

General play TOTK spoilers below (its...just about the map idk how much of a spoiler it really is)

But I do believe there to be a lot of references to the game in TOTK, as well as of course Skyward Sword, but I suck ass at Skyward Sword even on the Switch >:( But at least I have Hyrule Historia which has tons of info on SS? (I’m stuck in the Lanayru Mines and UUUUUUGH I could GIF that game too tho hm)

But yeah the maps are kinda driving me crazy, constantly contrasting the 3 in TOTK along with Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time, and even Wind Waker as I believe those games (in order) are the most heavily referenced in TOTK and BOTW and WE ALL WANNA FIGURE IT OUT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT ISN’T IT COOL

[anarchopuppy]

It's time for another one of my long-ass Zelda posts that no one actually reads but that's okay because I'm just posting it for myself. The topic today:

The Zelda Timeline Actually Makes Perfect Sense If You Just Think About It For A Minute

Casual fans and non-fans will take any opportunity to mock the Zelda timeline, with their criticism often starting and ending with "Look, there are three whole branches! Three!" followed by not inspecting it any further. Even big Zelda fans who know the lore extensively will still claim (without giving evidence) that the developers never intended for there to be a timeline or shared story at all while they were writing the games, and just made it up post-hoc to put in Hyrule Historia. But is that true?

Even as early as 2003 (around Wind Waker's release), Miyamoto and Aonuma confirmed that they had an official document with the entire timeline laid out in it, and that claim was reiterated in several other interviews following that. So, there's that idea put to rest right away. Straight from the horse's mouth, there has always been an official timeline

Fun fact: Did you know that back when Ocarina of Time was still called Zelda 64, around the same time that the very first ingame footage was being shown to the public, before the time travel concept was even decided on - we're talking very early development - Nintendo reportedly told IGN that its story took place after Adventure of Link? Now, you may say that that proves that they don't care much about the timeline if they're changing it up partway through production, but to me it says the opposite. Even in the experimentation phase, before they had even come up with the central concept of the game, they were already considering where it would fit into the timeline

But the claim I made at the top wasn't that the timeline was considered beforehand, but that it makes "perfect sense"

The Official Timeline Is The Only One That Works

Let's consider the games in the Zelda series in release order and see how they fit with each other

First was Zelda 1. After that came Zelda 2, an obvious direct sequel with the same Link. Then LttP, which the devs clearly stated was a prequel to Z1 - and it couldn't really have been anything else, since Z1 ends with Ganon being killed and AoL ends with his resurrection being prevented. Link's Awakening is just a dream and could go anywhere on the timeline. Ocarina of Time is a clear prequel to LttP, exploring the origins of Ganon and the beginning of his life as a man, as established in LttP's manual (I'll talk more about OoT and the Downfall Timeline further down). Majora's Mask is a direct sequel to OoT

After that comes Wind Waker, the first seemingly ambiguous placement. The game begins with a legend of the Hero of Time, the player character from OoT, sealing Ganon and then disappearing forever. It's clear that this is referring to the timeline that Link left in OoT. And since in LttP Hyrule hasn't been flooded and abandoned along with the Triforce and Master Sword and Ganon's corpse (which is how WW leaves it), we can be pretty certain that this doesn't come before any of the previously released games. Nor does it come after, since it makes clear reference to the events of OoT and explicitly states that no hero like the Hero of Time has appeared since. So it must be a new timeline split from all that time travel stuff. Cool

Then is Twilight Princess, which also doesn't fit with any of the other games we've seen. In its backstory, Ganondorf was stopped before taking over Hyrule or even touching the Triforce, which doesn't match with either of the two histories that have been established. It does match perfectly with the timeline the Hero of Time returned to at the end of OoT, though, and there's other evidence (such as the Hero's Shade, which is heavily hinted in-game to be the Hero of Time) that supports that. Again, can't come before anything else we've seen since Ganon dies, and can't come after since Ganon never got the Triforce. So the only option that makes sense is for this to be another timeline branch following from OoT

After Twilight Princess comes Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, both of which are explicitly sequels to WW. Then Skyward Sword, which is heavily established as the first game in the series chronologically and came with an official timeline to prove it. Then Link Between Worlds, a sequel to LttP (in Japanese it's even a numbered sequel), and finally Breath of the Wild which has its own nonsense going on and effectively soft reboots the timeline

Ok, so where's that famous ambiguity and arbitrariness? Everything locks in pretty solidly, there's just no other option that makes sense. This is supported by the fact that the Zelda fanbase came to the exact same conclusions before there was ever an official timeline. There were some people who were so attached to a unified timeline that they came up with wild and varied theories to fit it all together, but among the people who recognized that there was a timeline split, they effectively all put the games in the exact same order that would later be revealed as official. But with one major difference - everyone agreed on the order of the 2D games, but no one could figure out whether they belonged at the end of the Adult Timeline or the end of the Child Timeline, with some even arguing that the split timeline "merged" somehow before the 2D games. No one had even considered the Downfall Timeline as an option

What's Up With The Downfall Timeline Anyway

The DT is the most controversial part of the official timeline. There are two timelines that are clearly explained by the events of OoT, and then a third that splits off at the same point that just exists for seemingly no reason. Before the official timeline was released, the fanbase couldn't make sense of the 2D games and how they fit into everything. So what gives?

As I said above, OoT was conceived of and established as a prequel to LttP. But even before the timeline split nonsense, that didn't really make sense. In the backstory of LttP, Ganondorf acquires the entire Triforce before being sealed by the sages - and in-game we do see Ganon in possession of the completed Triforce, even able to wish on it - but in the events of OoT Link and Zelda retain their pieces at all times. OoT is clearly intended to be the events of LttP's backstory, but the ending is changed, like a "what if" scenario where Ganon loses instead of winning

And I argue that's exactly what it is. The Zelda team wanted to flesh out the stuff from LttP's manual, but a game where you lose at the end no matter what you do isn't fun, so they had to make it so you can win. The DT doesn't make a lot of sense when you think of it in timeline order, in terms of how it came to be in-universe, but it becomes a lot more clear when you think of it in development order, in terms of why the developers made the decisions they did. Ocarina was a reboot, a "what if we won instead" story in the same vein as Age of Calamity

In other words, the Downfall Timeline split isn't something that mechanically exists in-universe like the Child/Adult split, and it becomes very confusing if you try to think of it in those terms. Instead, it's another story being told by Nintendo where a different version of events happened, like an alternate history. And when you realize that, the entire timeline starts to make perfect sense

Hold On You Left Out Like Half A Dozen Games

Yeah, you caught me

The other most controversial part of the Zelda timeline is the placement of third-party games. This is the source of the only retcon in the official timeline, which was moving Link's Awakening from after the Oracle games to before them. It also results in the "Vaati trilogy", which was clearly meant to be one continuous story, being split up by thousands of years across multiple timelines. Surely, you say, I can agree that that's confusing and arbitrary?

And I would respond, yeah. Trying to fit games and stories from third-party devs into a timeline with the mainline games post-hoc was a bad idea, and the Vaati trilogy, the Oracle games, and Tri Force Heroes fit into the history about as well as the CD-i games and the Nelsonic Game Watch do. They're great games, by and large, but they're spinoffs and should've been treated as such - trying to include them is the only thing that screws with the timeline. Throw them out, and everything makes sense

[turbofanatic]

After too many years I've finally realized I can have my nice aesthetic pictures with a short description, plus my enormous background writings by reblogging later. Will wonders never cease.

Various tidbits below cut:

Tiny's armor has been difficult, because I'm trying to combine the Hero's Shade armor with something semi-plausible AND make the aesthetic fit into the world. It's hard! For one thing, his armor looks like no other armor in the game, where did he get it? Odds are pretty good that the developers just put some cool stuff on a reskinned darknut and called it a day, but I am here to overthink things. I'm using some Etruscan influences to distinguish it from Hyrule Kingdom armor (also using Etruscan influences for Ikana... hmmm).

It's probably pretty obvious by now, but the Fierce Deity's Mask just gave young Tiny the abilities of himself as an adult. It's symbolic of him *actually* growing up instead of that weird stunted thing that came out of a seven year coma. People comment a lot on him being unnaturally pretty in Ocarina of Time, but I do creepy better than pretty so OoT adult Link is a weird test tube prettyboy because Fi Just used the prior guy as a blueprint. Sorry dude. She couldn't change his wonderful nose though. Anyways it's interesting that both the fierce deity form and the Hero's Shade are enormous dark-magic aligned armored warriors that shoot projectiles out of their sword even when not at full health! Coincidence?! Probably yes, but not for Bad Moon!

Okay, for Fuzzbutt we have to talk about the mask first. I'm using Celtic inspiration for the Kokiri, and since Ordon is clearly a reference to them they also get the Celtic inspiration (them and the light spirits). So I referenced several Celtic brooches for this.

Originally I had it so that Fuzzbutt could turn into a wolf at will, but that's not really how it works in-game (which involves using the shadow crystal with Midna's help). Now he's both scarred by the wolf transformations making him a very wolfy hylian, and prone to transforming in large concentrations of dark magic (good news though! Dark magic doesn't hurt him!) which is very annoying but heeeeey he's got a great-great-great (???) grampy that knows how to turn curses into masks sooooooo...

I'm thinking Righty's armor (based largely on the hylian armor set) is a padded gambeson (this poor guy is so skinny, they need all the padding they can get) underneath chain mail, underneath something akin to a 1950's hockey sweater. Those things are tough. I've removed the weird leather breast-plate thingy because it just looked uncomfortable to me.

Righty is carrying so many weapons! Lots are modified. They include Sheikah throwing knives, a Zonai electric sword fixed up by Purah, and a Zora sword gifted from king Sidon. Awwww. It's funny to imagine the big fish still being extremely supportive of this walking cyborg corpse because Hylians all look kind odd to him anyways.

I'm removing most of the back scabbards, because it's difficult to pull swords from them. Exceptions include some odd open-scabbard designs (for exotic swords that do not need oiling and cleaning) and Tiny can hold stuff with his vines. It's a cool party trick.

Feel free to ask questions, I don't intend to go as far as making a comic with Bad Moon, but I've put a lot of (too much) thought into it.

I'm also changing some of the lore around, so if you see something that contradicts earlier stuff, I probably changed my mind! I do that! I'm not being paid for this and I don't care!

You're not human anymore.

You're not human anymore.

Your eyes go black electric blue.

The animal inside of you.

-elegant slims

[bananathebookworm]

TLOVM Season 2 Eps 4-6 Ramblings

EP. 4

- More baby twins. I love getting to see these flashbacks of things that were only briefly mentioned during the campaign.

- Trinket origin story! Baby trinket is so adorable.

- Ugh... and right back into this absolutely brutal moment. The first of several moments that are going to be absolutely gut wrenching to see animated.

- Trinket defending his mama. 

- “Take me instead you Raven bitch.” Love that they keep these iconic lines from the campaign.

- “Holy shit, I’m amazing.” Humble as ever Kash.

- Love Vex laughing in response to them telling her she died. Because sometimes it’s the only way to process things.

- Vax getting Death Walker’s Ward. And thus the decision that seals Vax’s fate in the end.

- Zahra is so cool. I love her.

- Vax’s flashbacks to the Calamity... I really hope we get a Calamity film at some point.

- And a passing of the torch from Purvan to Vax. Going from Vax getting the shit beat out of him, to him then accepting his fate and coming back and saving everyone. I love it so much.

- The tensions between Percy and Vax beginning... 

- The necklace for Trinket!

- Was not expecting that little jumpscare at all... though I really like them adding these Calamity flashbacks as part of becoming the new Champion of the Matron of Ravens.

- Westruun in flames...

EP. 5

- BABY KEYLETH! 

- “Pass through fire” reference. I’m a little sad that the context has changed so much, but I appreciate that the sentiment still exists in this world. I guess this also means we won’t be seeing Kerrek at all. (Which makes sense given Lyra and Thorbir were also cut.)

- Grog and Kraven Edge. Simultaneously the funniest and most terrifying relationship in the show. Also love that they included the Grog and Scanlan convo.

- Pike and Grog singing together! I love it.

- And the secrets of the broom unlocked!

- Was Vax this much of an asshole during this part of the campaign? I don’t remember him being this much of a dick towards Keyleth...

- KIMA AND ALLURA! HELL YES!

- “You know what you fight fire with?” “Fire?” “Me.” Never change Grog.

- “We can certainly try.” Fucking incredible. I love it so much.

- I love any time Percy loses his cool. 

- ALLURA. FUCKING. VYSOREN.

- I have very little recollection of Keyleth and her dad together in campaign, so I love getting to see them together here.

- I wonder if between the Vox Machina and the Mighty Nein series we’ll get to see Keyleth and her mother reunite.

- Keyleth is the best member of the team. I will not be taking any questions or criticisms.

- Seeing Keyleth’s new look, my brain immediately goes to getting the red tunic to resist fire in Ocarina of Time...

- Plane shifting beginnings.

EP. 6

- And now getting into Grog’s backstory a little more. I love that season one was them solidifying them as a team, and now season two is letting us see more into their individual backstories.

- Oh Percy...

- My recollection is that Scanlan never let anyone manhandle him in the campaign. He always insisted that everyone else heal themselves first and refused to be picked up most of the time. (With the occasional exception during battle like the fast-ball special.)

- Kraven Edge is terrifying

- Sphinxes are so cool

- Arcane Piano. This is ridiculous and amazing all at once.

- During the campaign I never stopped to consider what it actually looks like when Scanlan stop to sing in the middle of battle.

- Scanlan bonding with the Sphinx was not what I expected from this trial. But I love it.

- MYTHCARVER! Time to slay a Pit Fiend.

- Not as brutal as ending on Liam/Vax’s sobs last week, but that was still awful. 

- I'm interested to see where this goes because so far Pike is their only healer, unlike the campaign where Vex, Scanlan, and Keyleth were also able to heal when needed.

[daemon-404]

"Crossbreeding" in Hyrule

Alright, so, this has been bothering me for a while. It's not a new topic, I know, but I figured I might as well put my spin on it. A lot of this is based on vibes alone, but I put as much justification in as I could. Hope this makes sense!

Here's a basic chart for the overview:

Ok, now for specifics (under the cut of course). Apologies in advance if this is offensive to any people who actually study biology as my knowledge is... unreliable (even though I'm very interested in it).

The Easy

Hylian/Sheikah

Hylians and Sheikah are pretty much the definition of "cut from the same cloth."

According to Skyward Sword, the Sheikah are "Hylia's chosen guardians;" they were created alongside Hylians as the sort of "favorite races" of the gods, unlike other species that popped up around the time (Goron, Parella, etc). With the inclusion of the other games, it's clear that they're not minor gods (like dragons or Great Fairies) either, since they appear as and are referred to as a race of people, whereas minor gods are more like magical individuals than a species.

Besides that, they look and behave almost exactly like Hylians, with the only biological difference being that Sheikah can live for an incredibly long time. In SS it might be a little bit encouraged by divine intervention, but with BotW we know for sure it's at least over a century, probably around 200-250 years average. Even that gets more nuanced with, for example, Niko showing up in both The Wind Waker and Spirit Tracks (something of a century later) suggesting that Hylians might be able to live up to around 120 years.

Basically, I don't think it's too bold to assume Hylians and Sheikah are completely compatible and probably biologically function more or less exactly the same way.

Gerudo I

Gerudo appeared significantly later in the timeline, with their first chronological appearance being Ocarina of Time. (I think it's been said that they sailed to Hyrule...?)

In any case, with only one male born every century, they rely on reproducing with other races. This is mentioned in OoT ("They say that Gerudo sometimes come to Hyrule Castle Town to look for boyfriends," Gossip Stone) and made canon in BotW, with the marriage of Rhondson and Hudson of Tarrey Town.

Additionally, their children are always 100% Gerudo (source).

This means they're not hybrid species. They just.. for lack of better way to explain, need to be fertilized to have their children. Generally that comes from Hylians, and thus probably Sheikah as well- which would make sense, seeing as all three of them are almost exactly the same in appearance- but maybe not limited to them. I'll get back to this later.

Basically, all of the the human-like species can have kids with each other.

Cool! But that's almost definitely not what anyone was wondering about.

-

The Less Easy

Zora

Here we are, the most "vibes-based" speculations I have for this post.

Zora... fish people, right? Wrong. What the hell are these things.

Scales, eggs, mammary glands (are they just fatty deposits???), both fish and sea mammal type tails and builds, even in the same family (Sidon is a shark but Mipha's a dolphin????)... not to mention that apparently, at one point, on the official zelda.com, it was said that they're not mammals.

Biological nightmares, that's what they are.

After a lot of consideration, they (specifically the Sea Zora, like in BotW, OoT and TP) are scaled, egg-laying mammals (both are technically possible IRL although not at once), due to most Sea Zora having mammal type head-tails. The difference in anatomy, patterns and resemblance to other species is just... something that happens. Maybe it's due to magic. Really, it's just a character design, video game thing. This isn't the 100% science based dragon game after all and I can't exactly hold them to evolutionary logic.

As you can probably tell, I'm leaning heavily on the "not mammals" thing being taken out of their description. After all, it was apparently over 10 years ago and things (namely: BotW coming out) have been changed. The devs change things after the fact a lot, so I don't think it's out of the question.

(I totally agree with this post by the way- I've just adjusted some things so that they're now specifically mammals and my speculations make a little more sense, even though it doesn't exactly make sense for their evolution. Call it a product of divine intervention... again).

Okay. Now that we've gotten that out of the way... Zora (and, consequentially, Rito) technically being mammals (dear Hylia that physically hurt to type) justifies a little bit more crossbreeding.

Due to vibes again, I think Hylians and Zora are male -> female compatible. Something how female Zora just won't give up on wanting to marry certain Hylians...

I think Zora have most if not all the Zora-specific traits in the egg itself, and Hylian sperm just happens to be compatible to kick off the fertilization.

However, male Zora -> female Hylian doesn't strike me as particularly possible, since I think the Zora part might contain Zora-specific features that just won't translate well.

For example (due to vibes of course), I like to think the head-tail is in the male part, making Hylian/Zora hybrid children tailless and Zora/Hylian children a little bit impossible.

insp 1 insp 2

Rito

Unlike the rest of the Hyrulean races, the Rito have an evolution we can track! They first show up- in the middle of their evolution, no less- in The Wind Waker.

They are a race of people that evolved- with the help of severe divine intervention, only a century in by WW's time- from the Zora.

Their evolution looks something like this, by the time of BotW:

During that middle period, I believe they'd be extra compatible with Hylians, fertile offspring and all. Their god-based evolution seems to have done a complete 180, so for the middle of that process where they have Hylian-like builds I think this makes sense. I mean... just look at them. That's a Hylian with a beak.

Now for the bird part. Notably, in Twilight Princess, a mural in Castle Town shows the Rito with an appearance much more similar to BotW:

And in the OoT manga, there's a short depicting a Rito-like race, the Watarara, who migrate through Hyrule sometimes but don't settle there. They have a much more bird-like appearance than WW's Rito.

I believe the "Rito" in TP are actually the Watarara from a different country, who are developing ties to Hyrule at the time, but don't yet majorly live there. Then, since they're probably around even in WW's timeline, once the Rito of that Hyrule evolve to the point of being slightly more bird-like they become compatible and breed resulting in the Watarara-like Rito of BotW and fully breaking off mutual compatibility they had with the Zora.

HOWEVER-!

While I don't believe a Rito can fertilize the offspring of a Zora, (here's another vibes bit), I do think somehow that there's a male -> female compatibility between the Zora and the Rito.

(I think it's much the same as Hylian/Zora, but the head-tail gene is simply discarded and the rest functions).

Gerudo II

Unisexual reproduction is when a species doesn't need its own males to reproduce, in which the species has haploid eggs (only one set of chromosomes), so the male's genome is discarded, but the sperm is still necessary to develop the embryo (source).

This would explain how every Gerudo child is 100% Gerudo, even with different species as parents.

Now, due to fantasy and magic, I'm going to say the Zora, Rito, Hylian and Sheikah races all have compatible sperm.

This is slightly backed up by in-game Gerudo travelers, like Laroba, stating that a man from any race could be suitable to be her partner. Even if she's talking about romance rather than sex, maybe being able to mate with every other race backs it up a little. She does include Gorons too, though, so that might be unreliable. I'm just throwing it in here.

One more thing- there is a type of unisexuality in which parts of the male genome "leak" into those of the children. I assume this is more or less why Gerudo have pointed ears in BotW and not OoT.

inspiration

-

The Easiest

Gorons are (most likely) asexual reproducers.

There are no "female" Gorons in the series. Even the ones in Gerudo Town seem to identify as male ("I thought men weren't allowed in this town... Why did they let me in?" Lyndae; "I made it all the way to Gerudo Town! But I'm not sure why they let me in..." Strade).

And, conclusively in my opinion, OoT presents a young Goron- Link, son of Darunia. Being that Darunia and Link (the Hylian) are friends, and Link (the Goron) is even named after the Hylian Link, you'd think we'd get an introduction to or even a mention of some kind of mother, or find a "wife"/"girlfriend" of Darunia somewhere, but there's nothing of the sort (equally, the same can be said about Yunobo, who's directly descended from Daruk- the former having no mention of a mate and the latter having no mention of a mother).

I believe that Gorons are genderless, and the use of "he/him" and the male identity has to do with working with Hylians (source).

I tend to imagine that Goron offspring somehow originate from the rocks on the Gorons' backs, therefore being directly related to them (it makes more sense for Yunobo to have Daruk's special power that way).

-

Bonus: The Deku Group

"The Deku group" is something completely different I could talk about, but basically boils down to Deku trees, Deku scrubs, Skull Kids and the Koroks/Kokiri; they're (mostly) all plant-based spirits of the Lost Woods.

In short, Deku trees are something of a minor god/species cross and kind of radiate magic, Deku scrubs are an offshoot of this magic and can and do breed as a very specific and unique case of being a race of spirits, Skull Kids are just kids who got lost and died in the Lost Woods and turned into spirits, and Korok/Kokiri are a mix of fairy and Deku, being both "the children of the forest/Deku tree" and referred to as "fairies" multiple times, so with that combination it's honestly likely that they're just made out of magic à la UNDERTALE.

-

And that's a wrap! For now!

As a bonus for sticking with me this far, here's another chart.

Not only is he probably just... magically fertile, but I think if Gerudo are compatible with every major race of Hyrule (save for the Gorons of course), Ganondorf himself would be able to... show that compatibility a lot more easily. So, technically, if we're rolling with this assumption, the Gerudo and the rest are mutually compatible.

[tortilla-of-courage]

The Hylian written languages are a mess, man. But it’s nice seeing how they vary and how that’d affect how the Links communicate. I thought it’d be fun to share this since apparently written Hylian isn’t like, common knowledge in the fandom. Might be useful for art or the alike maybe? not sure

(really long post so. under a read more it goes! TL;DR of what’s in here: talking about and showing the written Hylian in almost all Zelda games, similarities between some, brief appearances in other games, and what writing system each Link would use according to all of this (basing it on the LU AU’s Links, but it could apply to any other Zelda AU out there), plus me trying to Connect The Dots™)

Written Hylian jumps from English-based to Japanese-based then back and forth, so in theory they could also sound completely different between each other, but that’s another issue. 

Anyways, here’s a totally-not-messy timeline of the games with their respective written languages (note: when i say english or japanese, i mean english/japanese-based Hylian, except in Link’s Awakening where it’s literally just those languages)

for convenience i’m gonna show and kind of explain each Hylian here really quick

First off, “English 1″, or the Skyward Sword Ancient Hylian alphabet

The first one chronologically. The start of a language-evolution nightmare. Anything you find in SS with this can be translated to English simply by replacing them with the latin alphabet.

Then we have “Japanese 1″, or the most common Hylian syllabary (syllable-based language) across the games

For some reason, Hyrule decided to switch to a syllable-based writing system all of a sudden and everyone said ok. With this one you can translate anything in Minish Cap, Four Swords/Four Swords Adventures, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks to japanese. It can be a bit difficult because of a lack of distinctions japanese has (double consonants and half-sized syllables for example) but it can be done.

(As a fun note, this one can be found in Ocarina of Time 3D in the carpet of the Temple of Time, and in Square Signs! And also in Twilight Princess, in some of Kakariko’s Gravestones)

Then we have “Japanese 2″, in Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask.

Alright still syllable-based. That’s cool. Though this one’s way more square-ish than the last one, and it’s missing some syllables, so it complicates translations. The missing syllables are the ones with the variation marks “Japanese 1″ had. So, for example, in this syllabary, “ha/ba/pa” are the same symbol.

Going by the Fallen Timeline first, in A Link to the Past we’re shown a variant of Hylian that is referred to as “Mudoran”... which is gibberish, basically.

As far as I know, there’s no visible Hylian or other in the Oracles games, but we can assume they’d speak/write whatever language Labrynna and Holodrum have.

Link’s Awakening seems to just... have English and Japanese. At the same time.

In A Link Between Worlds and Tri Force Heroes, we’re introduced to a new alphabet, “English 2″, which is also used in Breath of the Wild and Age of Calamity, often called “Modern Hylian”.

It’s really similar to Skyward Sword’s Hylian, to the point of sharing many of its characters... except they’re all mixed up and/or slightly modified. 

Here’s a messy comparison between the two for funsies. You can technically crossread between the two but it won’t make sense for the most part. The only word i’ve found that’s the same in both is “NO”

In Zelda I and II there’s no written language to be seen like, anywhere because of the game’s limitations. While we’re at it, Hyrule Warriors doesn’t show any distinct Hylian either.

So! Child timeline! Termina uses the same “Japanese 2″ syllabary as OoT. That one’s easy.

Twilight Princess introduces a new alphabet, “English 3″, that’s the most similar to the latin alphabet out of the others.

TP’s many signs with this alphabet though seem to use it with English, Japanese, and/or gibberish. It really depends on where it’s being used. Most one or two word signs base it off english.

Also, this alphabet can be found in... Skyward Sword! Yeah, all the way back there. You can find it in the Sealed Temple and the Sky Keep (though it’s gibberish), as well as on one of the game’s covers:

Then Four Swords Adventures, and all the games in the adult timeline (Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks) use “Japanese 1″.

So. What does this mean for the Links, you might ask? After that stupidly long exposition text wall, I can finally go to that.

i’m basing these on the Linked Universe AU’s Links, but the info above could be used for the Links in any other Zelda AUs. For people unfamiliar with the AU, “Hyrule” here is the Zelda I/II Link, and “Warriors” is the Hyrule Warriors Link. “Legend” covers all the other games in the Fallen Hero Timeline, and “Four” is the Four Swords and Minish Cap’s Links. The rest I think are more obvious.

Sky uses “English 1″. He could, in theory, see Twilight’s Hylian and have the vaguest feeling of knowing it, but since it was on the doors of the Sealed Temple i’m not sure.

Four and Wind use “Japanese 1″.

Time uses “Japanese 2″. Like Sky, he could potentially see Four and Wind’s Hylian and think he’s seen it before, but since it was just on the carpet I don’t think he’d have paid much attention to it.

Legend and Wild use “English 2″.

Also besides “English 2″, Legend also knows Mudoran, English, Japanese, and Labrynna’s and Holodrum’s languages. Multilingual king.

Twilight uses “English 3″, and if he ever paid attention to the gravestones in Kakariko Village, might recognize Four and Wind’s Hylian too.

Warriors could use any of these tbh, considering the mess his game is.

I have no idea what Hyrule could use either. Probably English 2 like Legend? Something else entirely?

Sky, Legend and Wild look at each other’s writing like “oh that looks familiar :)” but when they try to read it it makes absolutely No Sense.

I’m pretty sure I had more points to this when I started this post but I seem to have forgotten about them and i’ve already spent maybe 6 hours on this.

Conclusion: Written communication isn’t really a viable option for the Links unless they teach each other their respective writing systems. Chaos ensues.

Bonus! Both “Link” and their nicknames in each of their writing systems (using “English 2″ for Wars and Hyrule as placeholders)