#Wilbur is dying earlier - don't get attached

[xpudd1ng]

I'm cooking - Trust

[call-me-apple]

This got kind of long so I am putting my response under a cut.

I'd like to begin by addressing one of your tags: #and i know this is abt og lmanberg and wil bc of your tags but he didnt do ANY of that when president. like. he did the exact opposite dude

Yes, because as a result of the War for Independence Dream and Wilbur established a relationship the basis of which was "so long as you don't mess with MY country, I will leave yours alone", which is why Wilbur actively discourages any conflict with Dream during his presidency. They got their independence, there was no need to provoke Dream, there was nothing for people to sacrifice their lives for as there was no longer an outside threat to the country as a whole.

+ my post is about the motives behind L'Manburg's creation specifically, not what it was like during Wilbur's presidency.

About encouraging his citizens to die for the country.

A bit earlier than the clip you attached, Wilbur says this as he stands before the Dream Team:

"Independence or death. If we get no revolution, then we want nothing. We would rather die than give into you and join your SMP, Dream."

Although Wilbur discourages Tommy from sacrificing himself for the country later on, here he is completely fine with people dying for his nation's independence. Says they're all ready for it.

So, Wilbur switches between telling his citizens to give the revolution their all and telling them not to endanger themselves. The question is, what caused this change in attitude?

His image of a good leader was being questioned in the face of their failure.

FUNDY: Wilbur this is the point where you pull out the last sly move, please.

His citizens are expecting more from him than he can give. He is failing them, his image of a great leader is crumbling.

WILBUR: To stop any more bloodshed, I feel I would be a bad general if I didn't- if I didn't look for conditions of surrender.

Wilbur acknowledges how his reputation is in danger if he continues the way he was before, so he switches tactics. He can no longer afford to actively encourage his citizens to die for the country. He can't get independence anymore, but at least he can maybe maintain his image of a righteous revolutionary who cares for his people.

There's no point in encouraging your people to sacrifice their lives for something that is unreachable, as Wilbur has come to accept, so he prepares to negotiate for surrender.

This is what happens between the timestamp you've sent and the moment I quoted: Wilbur gives up on pursuing independence. But let's also look at the duel a bit closer as well.

Wilbur doesn't discourage Tommy all that much when it comes to the duel, in fact, he seems very excited at the possibility of still being able to gain independence even if it's at a cost of his friend's life. You say he's not happy about it when he clearly is. Wilbur utilizes the webcam when roleplaying, look at the surprise and joy on his face, he looks absolutely thrilled. He tries to discourage Tommy from it once but is very enthusiastic about the whole ordeal for the rest of it. He sure as hell doesn't mind Tommy sacrificing himself, he just can't really encourage it openly anymore.

About demanding sacrifices to prove loyalty.

Again, you're for some reason looking for examples of this later in L'Manburg's history whereas my post is about its creation. L'Manburg wasn't created with the revolution, it was being shaped a whole stream before that.

In Wilbur's second stream, when they talk to Dream, Wilbur treats Tubbo and Tommy wanting to keep being able to enter the Dream SMP freely as an indication of a lack of commitment.

Timestamp: [56:22-57:57] WILBUR: You can set up your own little whitelist, you can set up your own little VISA- we don’t care! We don’t need anything outside of these walls! DREAM: Are you sure about that? WILBUR: 100% sure. In fact, the only thing we’ll require is just Tubbo and Tommy will need their items to move here, but that’s all. If you give them safe passage to move nation then that will be fine. DREAM: This is what you’re doing Tubbo? TUBBO: Uh- *long pause* Hey! You know, so I was born in the Dream SMP and um- TOMMY: As was I! I was also born over there, so really, we have duo-citizenship- WILBUR: There is no duo-citizenship in our nation. Our nation has zero duo-citizenship. Look at me! Do you boys care about the revolution?

Demanding that Tubbo and Tommy be willing to stop even entering the Dream SMP and that otherwise they "don't care about the revolution" is a great sacrifice to prove loyalty.

Later in that same stream, Wilbur demands that Tommy gives up his home for an embassy.

Timestamp: [1:24:55-1:25:18] WILBUR: Tommy, listen to me, this is the conversation I wanted to have with you. I feel like you’re not devoted to the cause. Do you remember what I said right at the beginning of this? Starting a movement is easy, Tommy. Starting a movement is easy (and relax-) We’re starting a revolution, Tommy. This is hard. You’ve got to give some things up, man. This is- You’ve gotta, you’ve gotta invest. TOMMY: You want me to… give up my home? WILBUR: No- ye- mmm. It needs to be an embassy.

WILBUR: This is the moment you need to look me in the eye and tell me you are committed to L’Manburg. This isn’t just some- this isn’t a holiday home for you Tommy. I don’t want L’Manburg to be a holiday home.

After Tommy continues to show reluctance:

WILBUR: He doesn’t care. He doesn’t care about the revolution. He’s looking for an attractive movement, not a revolution. Chat, I think we’ve lost him. I think we’ve TommyInnit.

Wilbur treats Tommy's reluctance to give up his home almost as an act of betrayal, implying that if Tommy isn't willing to make this sacrifice then he's not committed to the revolution. He accepts no compromise (Tommy offers to make the Power Tower the embassy instead) and demands that Tommy gives up his home specifically. That is a great sacrifice to prove loyalty.

If your leader expects you to sacrifice not only your connections and possessions but also your life to a cause, he wants that cause to be all you have, and he wants you to feel pressured to stay with it because of all the sacrifices you've made for it to exist.

Your leader isn't interested in your happiness, your leader is interested in having you under his control.

Listen, I can somewhat deal with people saying L'Manburg was created in response to injustice.

What I can’t deal with is people saying L'Manburg was created for protection when its leader actively encouraged his citizens to die for the country as well as to make great sacrifices for it to prove their loyalty.