#To be clear I'm not throwing shade against the shippers or anything

[hellsingmongrel]

Because someone got huffy with me when I said the actual creators SAID that Knives is IN LOVE with Vash

There you go. Behold, my shitty tabs maintenance system and bookmarks, and a screenshot of the character bio page on the official Trigun Stampede website.

I'm not even a Plantcest shipper. It gives me the fuckin' creeps. But then it's not meant to be wholesome and UwU so sweet and sexy, it's supposed to be HORRIFYING. Don't know why I got someone giving me an attitude when I was just the messenger, but here you go.

[wackygoofball]

Hiya! You're such a positive person in the JB fandom and I'm kinda disillusioned right now after this week's episode... I think I was caught up in Nik and Gwen's interviews and the hype and started to believe JB is happening this season but maybe not? I haven't kept up with the leaks but I'm starting to think that Nik and Gwen knew the JB fandom was bound to be disappointed and were trying to give us something to smile about... :/ how are you feeling about the whole thing??

Hi there, anon!

To start out with your last question first – I thinkyou are implying two things with your question, right? On the one hand, what Ithink of the Gwen/Nik interviews in connection to the episode and an overallassessment of L’Episode du Blegh. Ihope I got that correctly.

So, to turn to the first part of the question that Inow interpret to be a part of it… I tend to read too much into things, so youhave to excuse me in that regard, LOL. Anyway, do I think that Gwen and Nikhave been riding the JB Hype Train only just to please us JB shippers?

Nope.

Why?

For a number of reasons.

First of all, as much influential as the JB Media™ maybe (we control the internet, guys!), we do not wield that much power that our mostprecious, dorky Dane, who is still finding out how social media work, and ourmagical unicorn of wonder will mean to appeal to *us* in that way. So, theassumption that they were trying to brace us for Le Blegh presumes that they’d feel a personal need to keep us JBshippers tuned, prepare us for the inevitable Le Blegh. And I don’t think that is the case.

Hand in hand goes that Gwen’s also been going on aboutthat Wildling Fellow with the Beard™ in connection to Brienne (now, whether that was herpersonal choice or something communicated to her by HBO/managers/producers/whatnot is up to debate and not the topic just now). She wouldn’t have done that ifher agenda was to somehow reassure JB shippers – or to prep them up for yetanother scene. She would have chosen another language during that point of timeto reflect on that matter, which she did not. So that, to me, already worksagainst the hypothesis that she’d have interest or feel a need to brace JBshippers for something inevitable such as a short-lived, comical relief TBscene or Le Blegh.

Another reason – Nik is an epic, good-looking(epically good-looking) troll when it comes to spoilers. He is really good atsaying a lot while saying nothing at all, so not to reveal anything spoilery. That is his kind of style, but it’s notreally his style (as far as I have seen in the retrospective of his interviewson previous seasons) that he’d push one thing as a reassurance for fans to staytuned.

Nik’s usual turn is to talk about Jaime at the pointof time where we left off the past season before the new season airs. Which isa smart thing, because it makes him less vulnerable to reveal big spoilers – heonly ever speaks of Jaime based on what is *common knowledge* and iscanonically true.

So, I just don’t believe our two precious celebs woulddo that. On the contrary, I believe that they have been as JB-friendly as theywere because a) both enjoy playing that relationship, b) Nik ships it, let’s bereal…, c) Nik is happy to talk about anythingbut his character’s incestuous relationship with his twin sister for theumpteenth time – and who can blame the man, really??? and d) judging by anotherinterview Gwen gave (when yet again asked about the Wildling Fellow who ShallNot Be Named and responded in a way that came across to me as her being ratherannoyed on her character’s behalf that it should be about Brienne’s feelingsand not that of said character not tobe named), I also think that she is rather happy to talk about her character’s*deep* relationship with another character instead of that throw-away scenethat got way more hype than likely anyone ever anticipated.

The point thus is that I just don’t feel like Gwen andNik would do that. Nik loves trolling, but that is not trolling, really. It’sjust not their style, as far as I can judge.

But anyway, the big point I didn’t yet speak of isthat there comes another assumption with this assessment – that JB shipperswill be disappointed this season, which they meant to brace us against byflooding us with some JB goodness in the interviews.

And I don’t think they will be in the longrun of theseason.

I think we are going to get JB candy, even if we hadto swallow some Blegh.

A lot of Blegh.

That is what makes most sense to me *at this point* -though, mind you, that is just my personal observation, I am no psychologist,behaviorist, or what not, I am not inside Gwendoline Christie’s or NikolajCoster-Waldau’s heads. I am just basing this on my reading of their pastinterviews in connection to the seasons that aired following their ipromos.

Anyway, moving on to the second part of the question.

… But, another thing I just want to addressbeforehand:

I guess it may have been obvious to some of myfollowers (btw: thank you for staying around, you guys. I don’t know how youput up with my random posting!), but I have been *very* absent ever since L’Episode du Blegh aired. I have beenstaying off of most social media, safe for some random posting in-between, andotherwise have stayed in the safe haven called JBO, precisely because I am a positive JB-shipper, asyou say, and I didn’t want to (and still don’t want to) engage in thenegativity I knew I was going to be met with ever since L’Episode du Blegh flicked across the screens.

By that I want to make clear that I get it, that Iunderstand the reasons, that people have valid points and criticism they wantto voice, but that I just do not wish to engage with that sort of discourse. Ihave no interest in ranting about the show either. Just like I have noparticular interest in trying to convince people of the contrary (for neitherdo I find it my duty or within my powers).

Everyone his or her own, and my own is the positivityand the hype.

Where was I? Right, L’Episode du Blegh and the Hype and how to sensibly connectthat.  

So, stating the obvious: I rather would have donewithout it. I am still not yet sure just why they keep bothering both theactors and the viewers with something that long since lost its OMG moment thatis rather naturally associated with incest scenes. It’s not shocking anymore,really, so… it’s basically just yet another eye roll moment every damn time.

And that is also the first take-away for me – it wasnot shocking for me. Ever since it was clear that they’d keep Jaime in Cersei’sclutches for a good part of the next season (for whatever greater purpose theywant to see achieved), I was prepared for that to happen. So… I was notshocked, I was prepared, and thus not nearly as freaked out as I presumablywould have been if I had just walked into that situation *unprepared*.

How was I prepared, then?

Because let’s be real, sex was and is the basis oftheir relationship since ever. It’s the one thing that connects them, becauseeverything else… they are just wanting to believe to be a unity, but thefictional reality portrays it as it is – there is no connecting material beyondthe factors of their familial ties, the sex, and the illusions they built up tomake it more than it ever was (aka delusion).

I mean, what struck me ever since the new season airedare those little yet powerful clues. Rewatch the throne room scenes, and lookat how they keep Jaime out of almost every frame when you see Cersei on thethrone, where you should see her whole *gang* (Qyburn + Frankengregor) – butlook who’s so far off to the right that you don’t even see him in the fuckin’frames! Right, the Kingslayer who’s supposed to be *on her side*! Instead, weget reaction shots of his that are Fifty Shades of WTF.

(Sorry, didn’t find a fitting gif from the throne room, but this is one of the wtf faces he has for Cersei right now and I love it!)

Then, as this episode showed just as strongly: Thetwins’ ways of dealing with enemies. We’ve seen it at Riverrun/King’s Landingalready past season (Jaime ending the siege without bloodshed, Cersei… SEPTKABLOOM).

However, this made it ever the clearer, ever the more visible – Jaime*refused* Cersei’s demand/order to give Olenna a violent death (like, the wordinghe used makes clear *to me* that it’s not just a secret choice he’s made, butsomething he actively told her he would not do), gave her a painless poison anddidn’t *reconsider* even when Olenna tossed the truth bombs at him aboutJoffrey’s death (like, he could have stabbed her, then, too, to express hisanger, let it out – which is what Cersei probably would have done, let’s bereal… if chick knew how to use a sword…) in contrast to Cersei’s way of dealingwith Ellaria. I don’t mean to imply that Ellaria didn’t deserve to die – inthis universe, the one punishment was death. But Cersei makes her sufferthrough however long the torment is going to last. She doesn’t just do thiseye-for-an-eye politic or quickly disposes of *threats*, she lives out her sadism on a woman she *justifiably*feels hatred towards, but in ways that go way beyond any measure of being aproper payback. So, the narrative purpose of that was surely to highlight their difference rather than their similarities in that regard. Which is an easy but effective way to signify dissonance.

… *side note: It is forever funny that Cersei talksabout (bad) choices Ellaria made, when Cersei’s choices inevitably led to that huge parts of that mess, it’s just that she won’t recognize her own role in this beyond e.g. whatshe said to Olenna. Cersei doesn’t get how she *indirectly* always has herhands in her children’s deaths through the choices she makes, which I take tobe one of the big upshots of her prophecy – even when she tries to protect herkids, she leads to their downfall, to their ending up with golden shrouds thanks to bad decisions.

Anyway, where was I?

The point of my previous rambling is this: Yes, therewas Le Blegh, but there was a shitton of other things in that episode that should get those people hopeful whowish for Jaime to finally step away from his sister, and embrace the man he canstill become (and FINALLY shake it up with Brienne).  

If you are looking for a shit ton of great analyses,please go to the JBO thread about the episode. There are great points thereraised that shed many different lights on the matter. You should check it out!

As to the scene itself, even that showed to me somebig points that speak for what Nik and Gwen have been promoting with JB,basically.

For instance, the very fact that Jaime now tried thefamily’s coping mechanisms (alcohol) prior to Le Blegh. Quite excessively for his stanards, I may add.

Or the fact that his first impetus is to put the golden handback on, because he *knows* that *normally* Cersei wants him to wear it (veryconsistent with what Nik said in previous interviews on the matter, by the way,just like Clapton when asked about Jaime’s costume piece, the golden hand).Sure, I rather would have had her put it on because it would have transmitted*more clearly* that she is not really fond of that *blemish* of his and ratherwants to see it covered up in something golden to conceal that.

But I am not writing the scripts, so who am I to say?

Yet, that does not negate that the subversion will notbe as powerful once JB shake it up. I still hold on firmly to the (up untilproven right or wrong – I hope to be proven right of course!) headcanon thatBrienne will particularly touch the stump in a loving way. I also hold on tothe headcanon that if we get a morning after scene between the two, she willhave grasped his stump. That would make for a perfect subversion of preciselythat scene.

Anyway, moving back from the fanfic mode…

Another point worth raising is that I tend to readthat scene in a certain way (as expressed in that most wonderful thread Imentioned), which is that Jaime *tries to desperately hold on to thisrelationship*. He tries to hold on to the sex. Because that is the only thinghe has left, basically.

Let’s be real.

This episode proved that he deliberately gave up onthe Rock, which he cared about more than he ever let on until now (see his lineto Olenna about this place being important to him personally wrt childhoodmemories etc.). He gave up on it for strategic purposes.

He is a high lord who is to give up on his castle tosee a certain purpose achieved.

Remember Jaime as he rode to Riverrun and talked toBronn about how he could be his Hand now? That man was rather enthusiastic fora moment or two, dared to be, now that he realized himself as Lord of Casterly Rock, and liked it.Contrast that to the man who conversed with Olenna. Jaime is a lord withoutcastle. He is nto even a bodyguard via Kingsguard anymore. He is a guy who admits to a dying woman (he has no real reason to lieto at this point of time) that it has indeed gone out of his control, that whatCersei does is beyond his control, basically.

And this man thus has… basically nothing that he cansee within his possibilities other than what he has made great sacrifices forin order to keep – that relationship.

I know, sucks,but… man, divorces are often LOOOOOONG processes: You deny, you hold on eventhough you probably should let go, you want it to work, you want it tocontinue, especially if you invested *so very much* into that relationship.It’s nothing you just walk away from, particularly if you have… nowhere else togo.

I mean, sure, that is not what is directly transmittedin that scene – I really think Jaime just wants to believe, wants to numb thatpain, so he does what he always does, he bottles up, focuses on what he has(which is twincesty blegh), and tries to make himself believe that this is allhe needs or is the best he’s ever going to get.

However, if we see this in the larger context of theepisode, I tend to read it in that way that Jaime really has nowhere to go. TheRock – gone. The rest of the realm – not really on good terms with theKingslayer. Like, what other option does Jaime see for himself? What sense ofpotential other options does he have available to him?

He has none *at this point of time* (but that willchange eventually!!!). To him, there is just one sense, and that is that thisis *it*, that this is the best he can get, will ever get, he’s conditionedhimself and let himself be conditioned to regard this as the one thing in hislife that matters, the one thing to hold on to.

So… from Jaime’s POV, holding on to that, holding onto Cersei *even though* he does not approve of most/all of her choices(question remains just what version Jaime believes in wrt Sept Kabloom – I havenot yet figured if he knows the whole truth or only knows of the version Cersei’sbeen telling to Mycroft of the Iron Bank or something entirely else…), makessense (even though we are annoyed by it). It makes sense that he is in denial.Jaime is big in denial. He is big in bottling up, putting away.

At the same time, the (despite all of its grossness)wonderful set-up of that morning after scene is Cersei’s ego-tripping all theway through. We started out with her murdergasming over Sand Snatch No. 1.which she had to put to use by shaking it up with her brother. And the next morning,sure, to Jaime, it must feel really good to believe that she is now standing upto their relationship (which he’s asked of her in previous seasons and in thebooks), but I think to Cersei… it was *way more* and *quite another* matter.For Cersei, this was total ego-trip. She feels powerful now an that makes herfeel REALLY good (yup, reference to her going about Unella and how sex with herbrother feels good and all those things… she is enjoying herself in hermurdergasmy, egomaniac ways). And she likes it. Loves it, even.

In a way, she is doing things in a subverted way theway her dear first husband (fat may rest his soul) who’s had the whores in hischamber by the dozen and not even making an attempt of hiding it from thegeneral populace or anyone around the palace. Cersei, as queen (as she remindsJaime… with that smile… she is so high on power… it’s like shrooms for Cerseigiving her many egogasms), beds whoever she pleases, just like Robert beddedwhoever he pleased, no matter what was conventional/ruled differently byconventions and laws.

However, the implication is *not* necessarily that sheactually wants to be out in the open with Jaime, to my understanding, theimplication for her is that she just gets to do what Robert did, that she getsto do what she was judged for so long she was the Queen to a King instead ofQueen in her own right (via Sept Kabloom). Neatly, that leaves Jaime under thebelief that she is totally invested and is now out in the open about theirrelationship, when really, I don’t find it unlikely that she’ll give it awaywith her making murdergasmy eyes at Euron/Hot Danish Pacey.

If he wants her to make good on the promise and movetowards marriage even before the war’s ended, I wouldn’t put it past Cersei tobe willing to do that. I don’t want to go into spec mode here, but the point ismore on a hypothetical level – I don’t put it past Cersei at this stage to bewilling to marry Euron, and tell Jaime in the same breath that they can stillcontinue to have sex because she is Queen and as such, she can do however shepleases, and that she’s gonna get rid of Euron eventually, and that Jaime, forthen, will have to live with things the way they were under Robert. Pointbeing, my reading of that scene was not Cersei’s displaying that she is nowwilling to be open about the incest, to marry him the way the Targs did, butshe leaves him under the belief that the option is now available, and leavesherself under the belief that Jaime isn’t going to get any better than that andthat he wouldn’t ever want to get anything else but that kind of jam.

And I think therein lies a big crux – Jaime can getsomething else for himself. And I think it will materialize itself in the shapeof a tall woman walking around in a custom-made armor and with a wedding swordaround the waist.

ENTER Brienne of Tarth.

Like, all the Blegh aside, this is potentially *great*set-up for JB. Think about it!

Jaime, right now, has no sense of future orpossibility beyond what lies between him and Cersei. Whenever he sees Brienne,whenever he waves her goodbye, he is under the belief that it’s going to be thelast time they see one another, that he can’t have her, that she wouldn’t wanthim, that there is no way for him despite his attraction that he cannot voiceother than cryptic messages such as “It’s yours. It will always be yours.��

Jaime doesn’t let that thought happen, and thus, hissense of opportunity and personal fulfillment remains tied to whatever Cerseidoes and whatever it is that they currently make of their relationship.

If things turn out the way some people (myselfincluded) believe it to go, next episode will feature Jaime doing aself-sacrificial move that may get him killed, but he does it anyway. And thatwould neatly tie in with the assessment that he sees no future for himself,that he is *really* earnestly depressed, seeing how everything has spiraledbeyond his control.

Just like it would be such a wonderful, wonderfulset-up for, yup, guessed it:

JB.

Brienne, particularly on the show, has been a primarymarker for Jaime to push his character. Through being around her, he makescritical decisions that tie in with questions of honor and who he wants to be.She is a good catalyst for that, the message clearly being that she brings outthe best in him, and being the one to inspire *hope* in him.

And if that is what Brienne is to do, then that is the*perfect* contrast. If Jaime finds a reason to live and dedicate his life to*through her* - well, what a clear message that would be as opposed to himsuccumbing to the existence he’s been portrayed to have alongside Cersei, onlyever caught up in false beliefs and illusions about himself to somehow justifyhis staying with her despite him being well aware that she is a terribleperson.

To me, this episode only ever cemented my assessmentthat Brienne will come to stand for hope and life for Jaime, will inspire thatin him, whereas Cersei seems to inspire contrary ideas in him, that her actionsput him on the opposite scale of hope and future, only ever allowing for Jaimeto perceive his future at the length of what Cersei permits or what Jaimepermits himself in connection to Cersei. Like, this episode can very well cometo serve as a wonderful set-up for future JB content.

Jaime is hitting rock-bottom right now. And that issooooo begging for Brienne of Tarth to stride in and set the record straight.

And the fact that he spirals down *right now* is sucha wonderful set-up, really, because that will put JB much closer to endgame(aka they grow safer and safer and more likely to be one of the relationshipsto last through the Long Night).

So, sure, I rather would have done without it. Irather would have had it narrated in a slightly different way *based on what Iknow up to this point* - but again, I don’t know (and no one else here knows!) towhere the writers are headed with Jaime on the show. I am perfectly convinced that there isa way to make his arc come full circle in a satisfactory way. However, that issomething that will only reveal itself once the last season has aired.

At thispoint, I tend to focus on what the episode gave us beside the Blegh. And therewas a lot. Not just Jaime looking hot as fuck, riding on that white horse.

Damn.

I thinkthere were many indication that are ripe for subversion. I think that there isa sense of distance between them despite the fact that they were united in theblegh. I think there is a sense of Jaime’s being depressed, which signals to methat he is not happy, even when he tries to make himself believe that he is. Ithink that a lot of that is rooted in his apparently low self-esteem that seemsrather queer on a man who’s also arrogant: He doesn’t have a sense of future orthat he can get better *for himself* in a relationship with someone who is… nothis twin sister… and much closer to his goals, codices, world views, etc.,because he doesn’t think other options are available to him.

And I think that this is the mindset he is put in *asstrongly as possible* this season to make for an epic turn-around for when hemeets up with Brienne. Because if he is to realize that he has a shot with her…he has an option available to him.

He will get to choose who he loves.

And I think that this choice will be made by the endof the season, putting us JB shippers to the happiness that Nik and Gwen madeus enthusiastic about in the promos.

So… I get it that people are down. I get it that youare down, but I hope that this mad rambling shed some light on the situationthat may allow for another way of reflecting on it – in a more hopeful manner.Because there is reason to hope, I am most certain of that.

I hope that answered your question… in a very longpost. Very long. VERY long.

So yeah, stay tuned and CONTINUE TO FEEL THE HYPE!!!