#So they come up with plots for Elain's book where Lucien won't be relevant

[olenvasynyt]

Does Elain "owe Lucien anything"?

This is a summary of my tiktok video! Feel free to check me out on there too!

Something I see people often say is Elain doesn’t owe anything to Lucien.  She does not need to try to talk with him, she does not need to explain her reasons for avoiding him, she does not owe him her time and affection, which is what she says here.  

Chapter 18 of ACOFAS: “‘He brought you a present.’ ‘And that entitles him to my time, my affections?’ ‘No.  But he is a good male.  He cares for you.’” “He doesn’t know me.” “You don’t give him the chance to even try to.” Her mouth tightened, the only sign of anger in her graceful countenance.  “I don’t want a mate.  I don’t want a male.” She wanted a human man. Just because Lucien was her mate didn’t mean he had a claim on her time.  Her affection.  She was her own person, capable of making her own choices.  Assessing her own needs. “He is a good male,” I repeated.  “And it…it just…” I fought for the words.  “I don’t like to see either of you unhappy.”

And I mostly agree with this: Lucien giving her gifts is not enough to entitle him to her time and affections. 

But the way people write this off as something that’s really simple is annoying to me.  Because some people say “oh she doesn’t owe him anything!” as if this is some blind date Elain went on with a guy she met online and it go well or she doesn’t like the guy.  “She doesn’t owe him a next date, she doesn’t owe him a text back”. 

This isn’t online dating.  This isn’t a tinder match that went sour.  Elain and Lucien have a soul-level connection, and since SJM wrote them to have this soul-level connection, it is going tobe addressed and resolved.     Elain is not just going to continue to avoid Lucien and have her entire book revolve around plots that have nothing to do with him, we already see how they’re connected, not just with plots like Koschei, the human lands, Spring, Papa Archeron, etc, but again, they have this mating bond!  Are we seriously expecting something like, oh Elain just isn’t interested, so she doesn’t owe him anything and the bond will be rejected and they’ll go their separate ways.  

They are going to interact, they will talk to each other.  This is how these tropes work; the reluctant mates, suppressed feelings, avoidance, etc.  Whether or not you believe Elucien is endgame, you have to acknowledge that Lucien will play a significant part in Elain’s story.

And I feel like a lot of people (cough cough E/riels) know this, so they come up with plots for Elain 's book where Lucien isn't relevant. They know that once Elain gets to know Lucien, it's over for their ship.

And another thing people say is, Lucien is part of the reason Elain was thrown into the cauldron, so she doesn’t owe him anything because he did her wrong.

So 1. Hybern was the one who kidnapped Feyre’s sisters thanks to Ianthe, Tamlin and Lucien were not part of that plan and they both actively show disgust for the plan as it was happening.  Which was in the text and people love to just completely forget that.

Chapter 65 of ACOMAF: “Why do you think I asked my dear friend Ianthe to see who Feyre Archeron would appreciate having with her for eternity?...consider it my wedding present for you both,” he added to Tamlin. But Tamlin’s face tightened.  “What?” I was going to vomit.  Tamlin, to his credit, looked like he might, too. Lucien’s face slackened.  “She sold out—she sold out Feyre’s family.  To you.” Nesta began thrashing against the men who held her. Tamlin said, “stop.” The king did no such thing. Lucien, beside Tamlin, again put a hand on his sword.  “Stop this.” Tamlin spat at the king, “This was not part of our deal.  Stop this now.” “I don’t care,” the king said simply. Tamlin launched himself at the throne, as if he’d rip him to shreds.

 And 2. yes, they did ally with Hybern but Lucien actively shows his dislike and mistrust towards this allyship.

Chapter 1 of ACOWAR: “Let’s find a way to ensure our lands and people survive.” “At the cost of how many others?” Lucien demanded. Again, that warning look from Tamlin but Lucien ignored him.  “What I saw in Hybern,” Lucien said, gripping the arms of his chair hard enough the carved wood groaned.  “Any promises he made of peace and immunity…” He halted, as if remembering that Ianthe might very well feed this back to the king.  “We have to be careful.”

But getting back to Elain’s feelings about the situation: a lot of this is assuming, but from their conversation, ELain holds resentment towards him.  She says “you betrayed us.”  

Chapter 24 of ACOWAR: “You were in Hybern.” “Yes.” It was all he could say. “You betrayed us.” He wished she’d shoved him out of the window behind her.  “It—it was a mistake.” Her eyes went frank and cold.  “I was to be married in a few days.” He fought against the bristling rage, the irrational urge to find the male who’d claimed her and shred him apart.  The words were a rasp as he instead said, “I know.  I’m sorry.”

And this sort of resentment / betrayal can actually be compared to another SJM couple. 

And spoilers for TOD:

This is going to have a very similar vibe of Chaol and Yrene in TOD.  Where Yrene dislikes Chaol because he served the King of Adarlan so she associates him with her family’s death.

Yrene hated Chaol at first because he was from Adarlan and served under the king who was the reason her family died.  She also actively avoided him in the beginning: when her head healer told her she would be working with Chaol, she refused at first.  Then she said that she would chose if she wanted to help heal him or not, and she made that choice herself.  And for the first few appointments with Chaol, she was short with him and left abruptly.  But as she spent time with him, she learned who he was, how loyal he is, and all the regrets he had, as well as his intentions.  

Chapter 8 of TOD: “You served a man who did such things.”  And likely acted on his behalf. ‘Would you believe me if I told you that he left his dirty work to others beyond my command, and I was often not told?” —- “So you may look at me with resentment, Yrene Towers, and I will not blame you for it.  But believe me when I say that there is no one in Erilea who loathes me more than I do myself.” “For the path you found yourself forced down?” “For fighting that path to begin with—for the mistakes I made in doing so.” “There are choices in my past that I have come to regret. But I can only move on--and attempt to fix them. Fight to make sure they do not occur again.” 

Chaol being on Adarlan’s side was a huge part of Yrene’s struggle in their relationship and I don’t think Lucien’s betrayal wiill be a big part of Elain and Lucien’s relationship but we can still get something like this, where she might resent him for allying with Hybern. Lucien didn't do any wrong to Elain but he became the face of every bad thing that happened to her: the tramatic moment of her becoming Fae, Grayson rejecting her, etc. But then she learns more about the situation and who he is in general, how loyal he is, and his good intentions.

Chaol and Yrene have a journey of healing and self-love, getting over mistakes, etc: and Elain and Lucien can also have this in their story.  Resentment for the other switches into understanding.  Avoidance and hiding feelings and refusing to talk about the past switches to openness and acceptance.  They can be like Chaol and Yrene where they both open up about parts of themselves they never admitted out loud to anyone else.

And they can have a similar bond too, and an acceptance of this bond.

Chapter 64 of TOD: And this bond between us, Yrene…it changes nothing.  With you and me.  You’ll need your own space; I’ll need mine.  So if you think for one moment that you’re going to get away with flimsy excuses for never leaving my side— She’d poked him in the ribs.  As if I’ll want to hang around you all day like some lovesick girl!

There are plenty of reasons why I think Elucien is going to happen, and this is one of them.  They have this connection, these tropes that always make for a wonderful, heartwrenching story.  I don’t want a broken bond, or this avoidance to just be for nothing in the end.

[nikethestatue]

You have been in this fandom for so long nike I have to give up to you for always being realistic in your answers and thoughts because gwynriels make me so tired. Probably the reason many people take a break from the fandom I am so tired of the them belittling elain especially when a lot of us are so similar to her. How they said elriel book would be boring and predictable but want acosf 2 . We have never have a forbidden love story a love without banter something more realistic when it comes to elain and az they are not confrontational characters , how is that boring? Is it really because they think 3 brother 3 sisters is predictable or just because they don’t want their favorite bat boy with the archeron sister they hate?

I think what I've learned through the years here, is that there is a consistent pattern in how different sides approach Elain and shipwars.

2 sides are mostly concerned with the ships

1 side is mostly concerned with Elain

With ships, there is a LOT of emotionalism involved. A lot.

On the other hand, when it comes to Elain, there is CANON. And again, what I've consistently seen is that Elriels/Elain stans use canon in our theories and posts. Whilst others use emotions. Why? Because there just isn't enough canon, for example, to justify Gwynriel. You can jump and yell and scream and doxx, but you still don't have enough dough to bake the Gwynriel loaf. Therefore, it all descents into hate, name calling, pliant bones, and whatnot.

If you are rational about it, if you take emotions out of your interpretation, then it's hard to argue with Elain and Elriel.

For example, in regards to the next book: however you feel about Elain, she is clearly and directly involved in multiple storylines--she is Made, she is a Seer, she discovered Koschei, she discovered Vassa, she is the only one with full Cauldron powers, the Cauldron 'loves' her and 'purred' in her presence, she was able to stab the king in the throat, she stepped out in the shadow, for whatever reason, Azriel chose to hand HER Truth Teller, and for whatever reason she was able to wield it, and so on ....

I do not need to make anything up for her story that's not in canon. When it comes to Gwyn, you literally have to twist yourself into a pretzel to make her relevant. She'll be part of the Illyrian plot!!! What Illyrian plot? Where is the set up for this mysterious 'Illyrian plot'? how's she connected? what does she have to do with Illyria? Oh she has to be with Azriel? Oh HE has to get a book so SHE could be part of it? Oh so Elain has to end up with Lucien for all of this to happen?

See, all of it is not based on canon, but emotion, because you WANT Gwyn to matter and have a story.

When it comes to Elain, she is completely independent of any ship--the stories (and SJM can go any way with her, and I haven't even mentioned all of them) are all woven into her character already. It ultimately doesn't even matter who she ends up with, because her story isn't dependent on any man. THEY are dependent on her for their story.

So you can spend 3 years hating on Elain, but that won't change anything. She will still get her massive book, she will still be the FMC, she will get her man, she will get her journey, she will make a difference. That's it. That's canon. She is the juicy steak. Everything else is just a side dish of jello and boiled green beans.

I know the other sides spent a lot of energy and time hating Elain, hating Azriel, hating Azriel and Elain, getting into fights between each other, because one side hates Elain and the other hates Azriel, but they need each other for their ships to happen....

But we got canon. Which is a sweet sweet fruit. So I'll stick with my bread and roses, and they can have...the Illyrian redemption plot or whatever.

Pretty darn sure Elain the flower girl will get her book and her shadowsinger. Cuz that's what she wants.

[acourtofthought]

I’ve seen many speculations that Elain’s powers mimic those of the Mystics in CC (I do not agree, imo they’re pretty distinct), and that because of that & her ability to scary, she’ll use Rhys’ map in CC3 but like…no? Elain’s never looked for or into other worlds, and also, by that logic, what’s not to say Nesta wouldn’t read Rhys’ map? We all know the IC would rather use Nesta than Elain…

Idk I think this Seer/Mystic association is another desperate ploy of e*riels to show how Elain could be relevant to CC3 in a way that would be more impactful than Gwyn. But what do you think about her connection—if any—to the mystics?

You know when I think we're going to find out more about Elain's power? In Elains actual book.

I'm with you, I don't think she's similar to the mystics. And I'm not saying Elain won't be mentioned or that we won't see her at all in CC3. It's a bit of a farfetched theory at this point however there is the slight possibility that the place Koschei keeps his soul is the island where the territory for Dusk may have been hidden. Koschei himself is across the Sea on the continent but the "onyx box that he possesses, more vital than anything" is still unaccounted for.

In medieval Russian books, Buyan is described as a mysterious island in the ocean with the ability to appear and disappear with the tide.

The island of Buyan features prominently in many famous myths; Koschei the Deathless keeps his soul or immortality hidden there.

Furthermore, Buyan has the mythical stone with healing and magic powers

In Russian traditional stories Buyan is a magic island, mentioned in incantations and spells. The Sun, according to some sources, lived on the island with its attendants (Sun = a Star = Origins of the Starborn Fae)

With Elain and Lucien being so strongly connected to the Koschei storyline, if there was some chance his soul is hidden where the Dusk Court should have been, maybe Elain will play some role in that piece of things using her already known Seer powers.

Maybe....

Because again in ACOSF, she hadn't tried to use her powers in quite some time and I don't think it makes sense for her to test them out again in another series. And we're definitely not going to discover anything new that she can do before she has a book of her own. AND Elain does tend to be a "last solution" when it comes to the IC. The only reason Feyre even asked for her help in SF was because she was pregnant with Nyx. Now that she's no longer pregnant Feyre would probably take things on herself.

Just like I don't think we'd learn more about Gwyn's powers in another series either. If Gwyn plays a role in CC3, I think it will be helping to share information she's learned during her time researching for Merrill. I don't think we're going to see her playing some major role beyond that because we still need to further understand her powers and whatever healing journey SJM has set her up for. If we see Gwyn in a major role in the IC's planning and plotting when it comes to Bryce then it means we've skipped over a whole chunk of something. In Silver Flames, she returned to living in the library despite the Rite and wasn't sure if she'd attend Nesta's mating ceremony. That means Gwyn was dealing with some pretty major stuff and needed to return to where she felt the most secure.

So if she wasn't sure she was ready for her friends wedding, I don't think she's going to be hanging out in the River House with the whole gang and an interplanetary visitor. That would mean when we do get to Gwyn's book (because I do think Gwynriel is happening and she'll have her story), we'll have glossed over something major.

I could see Nesta or Rhys or someone bringing Bryce to the library to meet with her (which makes sense since there are hints that Gwyn would understand Bryce while speaking the old language) so I do see Gwyn playing a role for sure.

And maybe Elain will make it on page but maybe not.

But in the end, I honestly don't think either is going to be so very important that it's going to make a difference as to the future of the ACOTAR book and ships either way. I personally think this is going to be the Rhys and Feyre show when it comes down to it. They are the "spokespeople of Prythian" for time travelers. When crossovers are involved, the major players tend to be the ones who are the focus (for example, if SJM involved TOG, you'd expect Rowan and Aelin to be the ones who interacted with Bryce the most over a character like Lysandra). And since Rhys and Feyre have already had their main journey, it's a chance for us to have more of their story without giving away the story of characters who still are getting books of their own.

For me, focusing on Gwyn or Elain being more important seems to be the wrong direction to go in because I think (for as important as they both are to the ACOTAR series), they won't be the main focus of the CC3 book. Yes, Gwyn will probably share important information from her research and maaaaybe Elain can toss out something she'd seen in a vision from the past but at the end of the day, CC3 is going to be about Bryce and what she's got going on, Rhys because of his hinted connection to being a distant relative of Ruhn and the other CC characters.