#So I'm mostly doing this for my own sake and for fellow fans because I think it'll give everyone a laugh

[royalarchivist]

I really liked Ramon's idea of filling a tag with cute little things for Fit's birthday, and I was like "Hey, I got a bit of time to spare today, I can whip something up real quick. Surely I don't have THAT many clips of Fit!"

Well...

[dollypopup]

Hey hey! Firstly, omg, please do not apologize to me!!! People have lives and other things going on, and I def took longer to reply haha You don't have anything to apologize to me for. Imma put this under a readmore just for the sake of anyone following me who don't like long posts lol, because I think we both have a lot to say about this!

I'm glad we can have a discussion about this! Honestly, I have a lot of frustration with this fandom right now, so I'm mostly trying to distance, but I absolutely understand airing things out. I don't think it came off as aggressive, more so that I just wanted to reply directly if I had a part in the post. I'm definitely at a very upset place with the way things are going in the show, and even more so with the way things are going in the fandom, so this is a safe place to be salty!

I guess for me the sadness about the multi-shipping isn't necessarily that I'm being the fandom police and going 'NO FUN ALLOWED' but more so that this multi shipping is happening specifically because our own fandom seems to not like half our leads. I was around doing the ff.net dark days (shiver) and I'm also a fandom old, but even still, I feel like AO3 gave us an opportunity to have decent fandom etiquette, and I guess I'm really on that train. I think I've poured a lot into trying to correct it in our fandom, but it was a fruitless endeavor. Other fandoms I've been in have had more grace for their fellow fans, and it makes me sad because I really do think Fandom is the life of a piece, and the community of it that keeps people afloat, and it just. . .splinters. It doesn't feel like there's a real community here.

Because I agree, I think the show is very much feeling a style over substance approach is the way to go, but I suppose I just want the fandom to have more substance to correct that. I'm big in metas and making things deep, and I mean. . .I write a lot of fanfic myself lol so I guess I took the 'be the change you want to see' very seriously. (jesus, have I really written 50+ fics for these weenies? say it isn't so. . .)

I also teach, so I see firsthand that media literacy and comprehension is at an all time low. It's reflected in the fandom as well. The calls for punishment is also an example, to me, of wanting an easy way out, and a sign in the rise of puritanism in culture in general. We live in very right wing, Catholic-Christian times, and yeah, I think it's low hanging fruit with the fanbase, but also that it's a sign of much larger, systemic concerns, which also leads me to getting too deep in my feelings, as if I, a singular person, can change that in any significant way, but I do continue to try, you know?

I think the reality of Colin not having enough screentime is part of why the fanbase reacts negatively to him, but also it's a matter of seeing him as only a portion of Penelope's development and not as a character in his own right. Fandom *can* give him this perspective, but we choose not to. Part of this is because. . .honestly, a lot of Colin's fans have been pushed out of the fandom, and with the way the season is going, idk, I just don't see this fandom being populated with us anytime soon, you know? It doesn't seem that the season is going to give us that development, and even if it does, I don't know if I trust the fandom to be receptive. Colin has a lot already set up for us to chew on, but we don't want to.

Colin's relationships with the people around him are not explored, and so fandom's job, ultimately, is to explore that which is not really touched upon. However, this fandom is unique in the sense that, instead, it feels more so a regurgitation of that which is given to us easily. (This goes back to your point about media comprehension and analysis being at an all time low!) Many of the same stories and analyses are being made, and when someone does not take a popular perspective, it is often ignored at best, or resented at worst. I think pining IS a different thing than jealousy, I agree, but it still centers Colin's story around his desire for Penelope. He exists only as a pendulum between not wanting her and then wanting her. I also don't want his entire personality to be rooted in her, but that is, ultimately, an unpopular perspective.

I want to make it clear that I understand Penelope's perspective as a character, and that I get why she's doing what she's doing. But also that her choices from being at rock bottom are cheered on, and not looked at as her spiraling. She is coping with her sadness and invisibility, trying to find ways in which to be comfortable with herself through external means, but her actions are not framed, even in context, as being wrong or hurtful. Sometimes, I look at the show and I see how they wrote it, and I recognize that LW is a coping mechanism, and that Penelope DOES have guilt for how she's treated people in her life, but then I walk into the fandom and she's a girlboss for ignoring Colin, she's done everything she's done through altruistic means. She's not allowed to be messy and make hurtful decisions without those decisions being excused away, in some way, as being justified. Good intentions, still painful is not a thing, here. It is Good Intentions, period. There is no follow up with that.

And so, I am very much so against Debling being a part of her story, because whilst I do see Penelope as a rich character who needs to embark on a journey of growth. . .that's not what he's here for. Already, we have post after post about how people think he's better for her than Colin, already we have HEA stories of her and him, already, people have started excusing away. And it becomes a reality that Debling is not a small part of her big deal, but an enormous part. And he also becomes an enormous part of Colin being relegated to the sidelines once again, and has inspired even more vitriol of his character. Marina was a completely different portion of his story, she existed to highlight how much Colin was a great option for a husband, and to provide an arc for Penelope in which she 'saved' him from a lie, but Debling is. . .not that for Penelope. And not at all an arc for Colin.

Because it really feels like. . .nothing is an arc for him, you know? I think I've been here for too long, really, because I've just tired so much of everything about Polin just being about Penelope. I love her as a character, but I hate what the fandom has done to her, and I have been on a pendulum of 'ugh, I can't stand her' (the fanon version) and 'No, she's my baby girl, let her be a mess!' (the canon version).

I am definitely in the anti-Debling crowd because I think he does hurt Polin as a love story. It takes up airtime that could be used for Colin's arc, instead, and I hate that I feel that way, but I do. He has had so little that it feels an inclusion of a character for Penelope's growth is just a slap in the face. Colin's courtship with Marina was more so for Penelope than it was for Colin. Sure, there's an argument to be had that his yearning through that fallout would be for him, but the thing is, Penelope had LW to grapple with when it came to that situation, and she had the majority of screentime with that situation as well. Colin's position in the Debling situation is considerably different, as he does not have something of his own (LW) to chew on in the midst of that.

Honestly, at this point, I don't think I'll watch it. I'm embarrassingly upset about it all, to the point where it really has made me physically sad, and after pouring half a million words into this pairing and two years into their love story, it just. . .idk, it just hurts. The fandom feels lonely, the story feels a betrayal, and my love for this character feels fruitless. It's upsetting.

I suppose my perspective on it is that I just don't trust the writers anymore. With Debling's inclusion, whether it is for 3 episodes or 8, I don't think they'll thread the very complicated needle of this season. I tried to write Pen and Colin's reconciliation with the whole Lady Whistledown situation and the suitor plotline, and 100K in, I'm still struggling. You're right that it would take masterful strokes, but. . .I mean, they had Daphne SA Simon and then had *him* apologize to *her*. I don't think they have the chutzpah to make those masterful strokes, especially living in a time of media that had to spell everything out for the viewer.

I like that you're an optimistic person! I've been beaten down by this fandom. Time and time and time again, all I see here is people appealing to the lowest common denominator. Pen's a girlboss, Colin's an idiot, this new guy is perfect for her (because he is sinless, and thus clean from anything that would make him at all human). I'm ashamed to say I have rather literally been brought to tears by this fandom, and by how much I want it to be different. But hey, cringe is dead, and I've certainly been more embarrassing by writing 500K plus stories of these two falling in love.

I don't believe it's his season, anymore. And I definitely don't think it's his more so than Penelope's. Whilst I agree that they cannot truly choose one another if they're not developed, we now have 8 episodes to actually flesh Colin out as a character. In those 8 episodes, Penelope is going to be courted by someone else, reconcile with Eloise (or, at least, grapple with their friendship fallout), continue and work through her writing as Lady Whistledown, have a relationship with her mother, strike up a friendship with Fran and Lady Danbury, and then still have her love story with Colin. In these 8 episodes, Violet will also have her own romance, Prudence got married, Fran is going to meet John, Queen Charlotte will chase Lady Whistledown, Eloise and Cressida will be friends, Cressida's family life will be explored, Anthony and Kate will have a married life arc.

And what will Colin have? A narrative of uplifting Penelope so she can bloom, maybe a friendship with Will (who also has a storyline of coming into his own in the Ton), falling in love, pining.

That doesn't leave much room for his actual personhood. And I can't expect it. We've already been robbed, I'm sorry to say, and I don't want to be a debby downer (Debling Downer? god I hate him), but I think hope for me was stolen when we didn't get any of Colin's development of his passions and interests in Season 2.

I mean, god, I don't even want to write anymore, I feel like all my joy for this pairing just got stomped on. I do have a lot of friends who saw the trailer and got hopeful! I'm sorry I'm not there, and I don't know if there's any amount of Colin promo that will undo the damage that has been done, truthfully. But please please keep that hope. I think it's important. This fandom can absolutely be aggressive, and I've seen it first hand (shoutout to the countless anons on my fics who left ableist comments, that was always fun), and I've enjoyed our discussion! I want to apologize for my first reply, because I do feel like I came in pretty emotional, and a few days of distance has done me some good! I appreciate your response!

Listen, Polin has been my Roman Empire for months now, but this fandom is WILDIN’.

Chunks of this fandom who claim to be Polin fans seem to hate either Colin or Penelope and I’m just like… why are you here, then, if you refuse to empathize or even TRY to understand either critical half of the pairing?

“Colin can’t see what’s in front of him and he insulted her in front of his peers!! GROVEL; I hope Pen moves onto Debling!!!”

First of all, you’re not a Polin fan if you hate Colin so much you want her to move on to someone else. Second of all: yeah, no. Yes,Colin put his foot in his mouth, arguably in a big way because of status, but plenty of people in real life have experienced saying something that came off poorly to a group of people. Everything we know about Colin’s character tells us he is going to feel horrible about it; he’ll apologize, MEAN IT, and she’ll forgive him. She has her own apologies to make.

Believe it or, it is NORMAL for people to grow into romantic feelings slowly. Stop punishing Colin for discovering who he is by experiencing his own character arc with his own mistakes. He’s allowed to have flaws; he’s allowed to work through his insecurities!

Tbh, most of the criticisms I see of Colin are pretty surface-level and petty, so I don’t give them much real estate in my brain because they’re just… bad, lol.

On the flip side -

“Penelope feels entitled to Colin’s feelings; she’s selfish and the fucking worst!!”

S3 Penelope: *overhears Colin say he would never court her; BELIEVES him - decides she’s going to stop wasting her time, move on, and look for a serious suitor and marriage prospect a) as is expected of her in this era and b) so that she has security, especially considering her family’s dire financial straits.*

“Oh my GOD, this is so anti-Polin, how could she POSSIBLY even THINK about accepting a proposal from anyone but Colin?! GTFO”

SIGH, 1) we have NO IDEA how this plot line is going to pan out: Lord Debling may or may not be serious about her, we don’t know what that even looks like, or for how long. The show synopsis historically likes to play with the fandom expectations a lot. He may possibly propose… and if he does, it would clearly exist as a sort of parallel to S1…. but 2) GOD FORBID Penelope entertain the idea, despite very real fears and evidence that would lead her thinking it would likely be her ONLY proposal… or that even if Colin proposed post heavy-petting session, how on EARTH could she think that he would be doing it out of honor-bound obligation and not love. 🙄 Her potentially considering a proposal isn’t anti-Polin; it’s a realistic response and consideration to two (and likely an additional half) seasons worth of external and internal stressors that are tying into her character development.

Penelope’s heart is fragile for a multitude of reasons due to her home life, her prior experiences with Colin and Eloise AND the rest of the ton - it’s incredibly frustrating for people to ignore why she would potentially not believe Colin even if he DID confess / give her a marriage proposal, just like it’s frustrating when people don’t try to understand why Colin might struggle with his own feelings.

Some of y’all really don’t understand people like Penelope who have been told their entire lives that they are not enough, are terrified of putting themselves out there by being emotionally vulnerable and potentially rejected for the fundamental aspects of who they are… even though some of y’all claim to identify with Colin when he has his OWN STRUGGLES WITH SOME OF THESE SAME FEARS. And it’s almost worse because Pen is painfully SHY: You don’t just magically become confident one day because you decided to be; it is a constant battle against negativity that eventually becomes heavily internalized… it takes years of work unlearn those thought patterns, especially when you’re surrounded by people insulting and rejecting your to your face (her family) or behind your back (the way the ton talks about her family… it’s likely Pen heard gossip about herself, whether individually or as an extension of her family PLENTY)… with an added dose of also being ignored when not actively insulted.

It would not shock me at ALL if Penelope genuinely considers a Debling proposal. All of Colin’s actions in S1 and S2 have ultimately taught her that he is never going to return her feelings; she is likely going to be pretty oblivious to his own romantic realizations this season because why would she look for or entertain those hopes again? Some of y’all complain that she is selfish about Colin’s romantic feelings (which lol, I disagree strongly, but sure hypothetically, I’ll allow it) … so then when she tries to move on by listening to him and his actions she’s suddenly… punishing him and undeserving of him?? When she would have every reason to be skeptical of these feelings coming from seemingly nowhere when he starts of the season trying to find her a husband? NAH fam, she’s doing what anyone with any sense of emotional self-preservation would do: move on and try to be content, even if she knows she’ll always love Colin in her heart.

AND even if Penelope develops potentially fond feelings for Debling… do you really think it’s unrealistic for a 19 year old young woman who has done nothing but pine over a man who is oblivious to it (or worse, finds a romantic relationship with you laughable… in her eyes), who has not had ANYONE be romantically interested her… to maybe get a little fluttery around someone who is reasonably nice looking and shows her genuine interest right off the bat? Spoiler Alert: that is probably exactly what would happen because it’s a heady feeling!!!

This entire plotline is either a parallel to the Marina situation, or a reference to the book line that basically has Colin going “Oh shit, what if I had never realized Pen is the love of my life?? What if someone else had seen how amazing she was and snatched her up??” - Maybe it’s even both! Deep breath: it’s a just plot device for Polin to realize they’re made for each other.

Colin and Pen are going to be on their own journeys this season that fly in the face of what the other is going through. Colin is grappling with newfound romantic feelings for Penelope (while likely struggling to trust them because he thought he loved Marina but lol no he didn’t, so how is he supposed to know???) while also battling against former (and potentially current) impulsive actions… and Penelope is fighting for her LIFE trying to bury her feelings and move on because she’s trying to protect her heart because Colin literally said out loud he’d never want her AND she’s likely thinking of her security. They are both grappling with internal conflicts that oppose the other and THAT is what is going to make the tension and development so good… and that’s without even addressing all the LW stuff that needs to get worked through!

I need y’all to flex that empathy muscle a little and realize that this isn’t about fucking fan-service, or you projecting your own experiences onto these characters (or even the weird self-insert “I am/want to be this character” or “I want to fuck this character”) - you can relate to these characters but ultimately it’s about the STORY - it’s about exploring these characters realistically in how they would react to their own traumas and lived experiences, and how what they think they want/need comes into conflicts with their counterparts.

This is a romantic DRAMA, and these characters are going to have their ups and downs… and it’s a Shondaland drama for better or worse, so you KNOW it’s going to get messy (good lord just look at S2 and how far that “love” triangle went… I’m hopeful for the new show runner because she’s a fan).

Polin will be canon because they unreservedly CHOOSE the other and it will be glorious, so everybody chill the fuck out and stop shitting on my imperfect, emotionally fragile yet beautifully relatable, evolving lovers. They are the BEST fucking ship, but most of this fandom doesn’t deserve them tbh. They’re both messes in their own ways, and honestly? If they were real, neither Colin nor Penelope would tolerate this slander y’all are throwing at the other.

LEAVE COLIN AND PENELOPE ALONE AND LET THEM MUDDLE THEIR WAY TO TRUE LOVE. 🤬

[ruby-whistler]

You've probably talked about this kinda thing before (I'm willing to hunt down the post if so), but I'm pretty new to your blog and I'm curious; what makes you like c!Dream so much? Other than, like, his potential - or the skill that went into writing him - I mean specifically as a character, what causes you to sympathize with him as opposed to others like Wilbur or Quackity?

If it's personal you obviously don't have to answer! I've just read tons of posts like that from c!Tommy apologists and I realized I'd never read one from the other side of things (so to speak) and I think you present your ideas and stuff rly well :p

Alright, I’ve made a couple of replies like this, but this one is going in the masterpost to later link it to people - thank you for your interest, and I hope you don’t mind this one being a bit detailed.

Initially, on more of an emotional level, the answer to that question would be Dr3. It was how I got into Dream apologism, it justified my compassion for the character, and made me feel more comfortable where the rest of the fandom was overwhelmingly negative.

The c!Dream that people portray seems unsympathetic, and pretty fitting on the surface - a relentless manipulative villain with an insatiate thirst for power who threw away his friends in order to gain control over others for the sake of being on top.

Until you actually look into canon, and do some analysis, and realize that's,,, rather far from the truth.

See, the thing about c!Dream is, that he's a person much like anyone else in the story. He's not a "villain" or some morally black character only because of his actions. It's all about context, which doesn't excuse actions, but it might explain them and make an impact on the way we view the character himself.

In this fandom, people usually look at him, and then throw both accurate characterization and any of that context out the window.

Because power, and hurting people, and chaos isn't his goal or his motive. It's a means to an end. Everything is a means to the end to this character, including himself, which I find fascinating.

Is it wrong to do? Yes. Will it get him closer to his goals? Yes? Then he's going to do it, no matter who gets hurt in the process. No matter if he gets hurt in the process.

And this ruthlessness is not inspired by cruelty, this efficiency isn't out of enjoyment. It's out of genuine attachment and perhaps even desperation, but that's difficult to get into.

He's had such a downward spiral into doing continuously worse things - and for what? For control? For power? No, he never cared about that in the first place, why would he start now?

Do you know what he did care about?

His friends. The server. The people he feels responsible for.

c!Dream's goals have never been selfish at all, no matter how much people try to paint it that way. His ends were always for others - considering how likely the theory that he got himself locked up on purpose is, that enforces the sentiment even more.

If he didn't care about the server, why would he fight against L'Manberg and then list his reasons for it always as reasons "we" had? He pretty much never used "I" when talking about it, I know because I counted it.

If he didn't care about the people, why would he stand against Schlatt - despite understandably still despising L'Manberg - and actively support them in getting their country back when he could've just left them alone? Schlatt wasn't hurting him. Wilbur taking a tiny piece of land wasn't threatening him.

Manberg was threatening the server's peace, which is why he fought against it. L'Manberg threatened (and ruined) the server's relative peace and unity, which is why he fought against it.

It was never him fighting to control the server, it was him fighting for the server and the people in it, even if he ended up hurting them in the process, and that's pretty clear from analysing his motives before the second season.

And yeah, his thinking is flawed, I noticed - but cc!Dream has confirmed his goal in the end is for everyone to get along and, well, stop hurting each other, as well as him having an "ends justify the means" mentality.

And I guess that silent realization of - hell, he cares - was what drew me to have such a strong attachment towards the character.

So thinking about him forcing himself to do all this terrible stuff - about him being stuck powerless inside a cell, hurt over and over again - about just how desperate he must've been, alternatively, how ready to sacrifice himself he must've been back at the Finale.

If you recontextualize the story from c!Dream's perspective, it all falls into this picture of someone who wanted to protect people more than anything, and who cared more than anyone, and ended up losing everything, not entirely by his own fault, but because of the cycle of violence he was actively trying to stop.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dream is incredibly selfless both in his overarching goals, and in his smaller more immediate ones. He will, more often than not, put himself in a disadvantageous situation if it means his friends or allies aren’t caught in the crossfire or harmed.

His relationship with his friends - Punz, George and Sapnap specifically - is incredibly tragic. He wanted to protect Punz, he showed genuine concern about him, he was willing to have one less person on his side just so that people wouldn't target him.

He wanted to protect George, but he hurt him in the process, because he was too caught up in being in the right, and Sapnap was distraught thanks to Tommy telling him that Dream doesn't care about him, and Quackity who despised Dream was there to fan the flames, so they fell apart rather easily.

He wanted to protect the cat, and he failed.

He wanted to protect Techno, stand up to Quackity, and he failed.

If you think about it, he failed to protect everyone miserably.

Alright before I break down sobbing incoherently - as you can probably see, my sympathy towards c!Dream doesn't come from him being a good person to any degree, more from just incredible amounts of sadness.

You see, c!Dream is a very reserved character, and he puts up the "cruel scary villain" front on purpose, and he doesn't talk about his emotions on purpose. However what we see of him is pretty much enough to classify him as a rather tragic character.

Most of his actions, with enough context, shift the way I think about the character in a more positive direction only because if I like the way a character is written, it's going to bleed into my feelings for the character himself. Ruthless villains are my jam. A character being fun to analyse and too complex to complicate further is pretty much the only thing I need to become attached.

Did I mention the prison arc yet? I cannot see a character suffering and not be sympathetic, I don't think that's a thing with me. Healing arc potential, isn't it?

A lot of people also relate to the character on a deeply personal level! Trauma responses such as cutting people off and emotionally isolating yourself, trying to regain control of your environment or to get back the past, some people even relate to,, what's being done to him during the prison arc. There's definitely some amount of projection going on, but I'd say I only do it to a degree where when I'm depressed I'll start relentlessly posting about a healing arc.

It's just hard to see a villain with good intentions hurt and alone, even if he's done terrible things, and not feel some amount of empathy. Most people don't care to see him that way, but my blog's mostly a place for those who do.

Anyways, here are some essays to check out perhaps if you've read this far that elaborate on some of the points further-

[ x ] [ x ] [ x ] [ x ] [ x ] [ x ]

- and here's an explanation like this from a fellow Dream apologist. Might be useful to get multiple perspectives on the subject. Feel free to also send asks if you have any questions! That's what I'm here for.

[trashahime]

Anon, sorry for taking so long and the length. There was a lot to address and I tend to ramble. Due to the length I am going to divide your ask in chunks and respond to each paragraph individually for clarity's sake.

I'm curious as to why you have addressed this to Sesskagu shippers both here and later. TBH, this alone will make many doubt that you are truly neutral because you seem to have fallen for the common but false claim that the anti sentiment has it's roots in bitterness over a lost ship war.

Those supporting the end are made up of a variety of people who are simply united in their dislike/disappointment. Among them are shippers and non-shippers, antis, neutrals and even some SR fans who are bothered by how their ship is portrayed.

Personally, I don't think it takes any kind of mental gymnastics to have a problem with how Sessrin is depicted in Yashahime. There are some antis who probably do purposely make the worst possible interpretations to fuel their disgust/anger. But most are being completely sincere in their belief that Rin was married and pregnant by the time she was 15. You have probably already seen and dismissed all the anti arguments to support this view so it would be pointless to rehash them. You can believe it's just about disliking Sessrin but there were many antis like myself who were willing to accept the relationship even if we found it distasteful had Sunrise gone about things differently.

Each "hater" has their own reason for continuing to watch the show and I can't speak for them. Or as a "hater" either as I enjoyed the show. But I also think it's a trainwreck with many issues and problematic portrayals.

If people are targeting individuals and maliciously interacting with their posts then that is definitely harassment. However, I suspect you also mean the general posts made by antis criticizing those who watch the show.

The belief that watching/supporting Yashahime equals supporting a p*dophilic portrayal of Sessrin and other unsavory stuff is an opinion I disagree with. But I also disagree that expressing that opinion is harassment.

I get why you find it to be extremely harsh and hurtful but I also think you are taking it very personally when you needn't.

Consider my position. I'm an anti that still enjoys Yashahime. Most of those posts are made by my moots, some of which I have very friendly interactions with. I have even more reason to feel personally attacked by them but I don't. Just because I respect someone's right to an opinion that doesn't mean I am obligated to agree with it and make it apply it to myself. Unless you agree that liking Yashahime means condoning p*dophilia, then I'd advise you to take the view that those posts don't pertain to you at all.

As for petitions, bad reviews, being glad Yashahime is almost over... Well that's some of the least offensive actions an anti can take. Two of the three are against corporations, not fellow fandom members and the other is just a celebration amongst themselves.

They don't affect anyone else unless the petitions and bad reviews are substantial enough to put the shows future in jeopardy. IMO, the correct counter action is good reviews and supportive petitions, not telling antis to stop. They have the right to express their opinions.

I have seen many grooming and csa survivors say they also don't view Sessrin as having those aspects. However, there are many survivors on the anti side that strongly disagree. While I think that the opinions of those who have endured similar circumstances have more weight, it also creates kind of a never ending tug of war situation where neither side can really "win" the argument because they are equally balanced. For every survivor saying it is, there is one saying it's not.

Generally, I choose not to use the words p*dophilia or grooming when describing the Sessrin relationship or say that everyone who likes the pairing is a P&G apologist.

Many antis don't agree on this, but I think it's possible to have headcanons and scenarios that result in a version of Sessrin in which those things are not present. Fanonwise anyway. To me, the canon situation can definitely be interpreted to believe that they are present.

Mostly, I tend not to use the terms because they have specific psychological and legal definitions. That makes it very easy for SR fans to completely dismiss the idea that they could apply to Sessrin because it's not a perfect fit. I think if it turns out to be part of actual canon or if it's just part of one's own headcanon that Sesshomaru was "waiting" for Rin to grow up and courting her with gifts like the kimonos then that means he had a romantic interest in her when she was too young for it to be acceptable.

He might not be a technical p*do in that he is attracted to children, but his thoughts and actions are of one with regards to Rin. I agree with those that say Sesshomaru would never intentionally manipulate or pressure Rin to be with him, thus not "technically" grooming.

However, informing her via courting that he wants to be with her when she is older does put a type of manipulative pressure on her. For years, she will have to live with the knowledge that her literal savior, the most important person to her in the world, someone she loves and doesn't want to disappoint, is waiting for her. It will absolutely influence her life choices and who she becomes.

No need to apologise, I don't mind being vented at and am clearly prone to long-ass messages myself.

I think you do have some valid frustrations but I don't think they all are.

It's often forgotten that antis are major fans too. Many wanted to love Yashahime but in their eyes Yashahime "bashes" the OG and it's characters. It's ruined something they held near and dear. And they are highly upset about it.

Think about it, that's probably why you and others are so angry at the criticism. It's bashing something you all enjoy or maybe even love and it's making you highly upset. You all are more alike then you realize.

You can let it all impact your fandom experience or realise there is very little you can do about it because that criticism, even if you find it unfounded, harsh or extreme has the right to exist provided it doesn't break the rules of the website. You won't be able to block it all away.

it's a tired old cliche but it's true that you can't control what others do, only your own reaction to it. And frankly I think some of your reactions are as extreme as to what you ascribe to antis. I mean, you want them to stop celebrating the end of Yashahime. How does that really personally affect you?

A change in perspective as I described earlier goes a long way in not taking anti criticism personally. It even works when you are being personally attacked. I have seen posts about me specifically saying I am a deluded and deranged individual with real life mental health issues just because I think Kagura is the mom. Those people don't know me and I know the truth about myself. So why let someone's unfounded false world view affect me or my fandom experience?

Anyway, you probably just wanted to rant and weren't expecting or wanting this massive response. I hope you find a way to deal with the negativity because it's not completely avoidable but it will die down eventually.

[yazthebookish]

Hello there! I saw your post about the artist Dominique Wesson and I wanted to thank you for bringing that to everyone’s attention as I was unaware until I saw your post. Artists should NEVER be attacked or bullied for the characters they draw whether for fun or for commission.

One thing I do want to ask is that all sides be exposed when they present such awful behavior. I have heard that a lot of elriel stans are attacking gwynriel artists and supporters on twitter mostly and am disgusted by the posts I have seen. I have also seen that a lot of gwynriel stans are attacking elriel artists and supporters on Instagram and tiktok mostly (saying their art is terrible but could be redeemed if the artist redrew elain with red hair instead, death threats, etc). I’ve definitely seen a mix on tumblr but not to the magnitude of the other social media platforms.

As a whole I think elriel, gwynriel and elucien fans are passionate and kind readers but unfortunately there are disgusting, troubling and downright awful members of each fandom (people threatening to kidnap SJM’s son if she doesn’t make a certain ship endgame?? Excuse me??)

When I see posts that only call out one side of the toxic fandom I worry that it causes the trolls of the other fandoms to feel validated in their behavior. (For instance, if only the toxic gwynriel stans are called out, the toxic elriel stans will feel validated for continuing to attack gwynriel supporters because they think that fandom as a whole is as toxic as those extremists.) Obviously you are going to continue as you please and I support you no matter what as a fellow non-toxic SJM fan. But I do ask that if you speak on the toxicity of the fandom, you include all sides so as to target all of the trolls and not just the ones from the ship you happen to not support. I will do my best to do the same!

I hope this message comes across the way I intend-full of compassion and good-intent and no ill will at all. Thank you for supporting our artists and doing your part to put an end to this madness!

I'm not gonna sugar coat what some members of my own fandom do because I know and called out previosuly Gwynriels annoying Elriels on Tiktok. It's childish and just ruins the fun for everyone or those that send anon hate or comment under artists' work that are known to be Elriels.

Toxic behavior is not validated on both sides of the fandom. I'll do what I can but I can't keep up with everything because I'm not aware of it and for the sake of my own mental health. I've been particularly avoiding Elriels because we're all heated now and can't continue having a civil discussion without it turning into a vicious argument.

I don't even have much to add to this. It's an important message that I want to share with everyone. Thank you anon🤍

[evilelitest2]

Just heard your Berserk Fatal Flaw. I agree with a lot of stuff but dude... I.. I don't know if I can follow you anymore seeing you chose to be so wrong about Casca. I need revalue everything you have said. Nah, just kidding, I love ya man. This really is the first time I'm seriously disagreed with you on something though. Not about the way she's been treated (I will add it's not JUST the rape that got to her state), but she is a complex, layered character. In my opinion.

First off, thanks a lot for listening to the Berserk review, I really appreciate it, and its fine if you disagree (nice joke btw). And thanks for asking the question politely (if people want to know what we are talking about, the podcast in question is here) Personally I think Caska has a great character design I love the way she looks especially compared to most anime women characters, (I actually designed a Casca look alike for a dark souls playthrough) and you are right it isn’t just the constant rape that makes her the way she is.  With all due respect I don’t really see the complexity of Casca (is it Casca or Caska?  I keep seeing alternative spellings), I mostly see people referencing complexity without really showing it.  For contrast, lets talk about a different abused character, Guts (Gatz...no i’m just kidding)

Gut’s life is also defined by traumatic events which shape his personality  To witAn unloved Childhood full of physical Abuse Killing his first man at a young ageBeing raped Finding out that his father figure sold him out Accidentally  being responsible for killing a Fairy child who wanted nothing but to help himSeeing his father figure break downFather Figure attempting to murder himMurdering the Father FigureBeing driven out by his surrogate family Period of LonlynessKilling a child who metaphorically was Guts Having his “best friend” (AND NOTHING ELSE) betray him after Guts was nothing but faithful, murder all of their companions by leating them get tortured and eaten by demons, and seeing the women he loves get raped in front of him while having his arm and eye removed and left totally helplessMeeting Puck 

(This manga is weird) 

Every one of these is a horrifically traumatizing event but each one actually tells us something different about Guts, he isn’t just “Traumitized” each one of them informs us about a specific aspect about his personality.  To wit, his abusive unloving and neglectful father fiture who showed just enough affection for Guts to latch unto means that Guts is also defined by his desperate need for affection and love.  Guts really craves friendship and equal relationships and at his heart is a bit of a people pleaser.  However because his father figure then betrayed him in the worse possible way, he associates that aforementioned desire for love to be a weakness unto itself, and he has thoroughly internalized the notion that being weak is a crime and not only hopes never to be weak, but is constantly beating himself up for “being weak”.  

(pictured, hetrosexuality) 

The irony of the strongest man in the world is torturing himself for “being weak” is the core of the story.  Because he is obsessed with always being strong, he doesn’t allow himself access to feelings he really wants to experience, like friendship, attraction to Casca....attraction to Griffith (This story is so fucking gay) and basically tries to avoid dealing with feelings through the very popular use of horrific violence, which doesn’t work, so he keeps trying to have more violence the cycle continues.  His attempt to go be by himself is an important part of his heeling process, because he is learning to actually define himself by himself, not just as a giant mass of muscles with a sword.  He hasn’t really thought of himself as a person until he joins Griffith’s band, and hasn’t thought of himself as “the bad guy” until he killed a child and was like “um.....wait.....I’m the victim here.....fuck”

And that is what separates Guts from Griffith, he ultimately does accept blame for his actions.

(pictured, character growth) 

So each traumatic event informs Guts as a person, and they all tie into the larger theme of Machismo  What is interesting about Berserk is that it is actually about toxic masculinity, both Guts and Griffith are people who are super macho and are extremely unhealthy in how they approach masculinity.  In fact what they have in common is that neither one of them is actually happy with the coarse they are pursuing, but they keep doing that because to do otherwise would make them feel weak.  Griffith wants to have a castle....kinda of for its own sake, it is not like he has any political ambitions or dreams, he doesn't have reforms he wants to initiate, he just wants a castle because he made a goal when he was 7 and has a really hard time changing direction.  Meanwhile Guts keeps pushing everybody away from him and all he wants is some sort of support unit.  Hence why the manga is named after a Suit of armor that tears you apart as you murder people

I..don’t get this from Casca.  Maybe i’m not paying attention enough and i’m missing it, but it feels like each traumatic event leaves her kind of the same until she suddenly losses her personality (I haven’t read the latest chapters yet so maybe she has had her personality restored).  Each cycle of trauma seems to leave her just....kinda of the same

(I do like this scene though) 

So young Casca we see in the flashback is just kinda...demure.  Then Griffith makes her kill a guy (like a dick) and from that point on we see somebody who is controlling, obsessive, tense and hostile towards everybody but Griffith.  And that is...kinda it.  LIke I don’t really see how she changes internally and I don’t see how we go from that to “becomes a child”  Why does Casa become a child rather than Guts?  

My issue with Casca is that we are always viewing her from outside and she is defined by her relationship with the characters rather than with herself.  Guts and Griffith both have scenes where the narrative gets us to see what they are thinking internally but beyond one or two exceptions, Casca always seems like a character who exists as a satellite.  She bounces between rape threat and rape threat and never seems to be able to come into her own.  The scene taht upset me the most with Casca was the Eclipse, because while Juddeau and Pippin and even fucking Corkus got there own special moment where they either fought a bunch of demons or died in a specific way, Casca, the best fighter other than Guts, goes down without killing a single demon.  Her last big fight was against the comedy relief villain.  And in a manga where the way people murder their fellow human beings is actually how they express there character that says a lot. I never actually see the complexity beyond the writing saying that she is complicated, just like she is built up to be a great fighter but never seems to do much. 

(I kinda wish we had gotten to see more of this rather than just skipping it over)

The only time where I kinda liked Casca was the bit between her hooking up with Guts and the Esclipse, ecause then she and Guts were in a relationship and actually got out of their shells a little bit, and its the first time we see them actually show more of their humanity.  

(I also like this scene) 

Just to be clear, you aren’t wrong for liking the character, even if we can prove taht Casca is objectively a bad character, you aren’t wrong for liking her.  The Strength of the art design and the way she is built up means that it makes sense if you like her, I just kinda feel like the narrative doesn’t, and the beset version of Casca i tend to see are the ones fans imagine rather than the one which is written.  Epsicailly because she is one of the very few female POCs in anime/manga who isn’t racist or offensive in regards to race.  

(.....wtf)

[kinkymagnus]

Without any offense intended, can I ask why you seem to care so much about who is the more dominant/submissive one in Alec and Magnus's relationship? You seem to reblog and talk about that kind of thing quite often so I was just curious why. I mean no offense, I'm just wondering :,)

imma put this under the cut because it got really wrong (also: i take no offense! questions are fine and you’ve been nothing but polite! it’s totally cool.)

honestly, i don’t really think like. magnus only ever subs and alec only ever doms. i don’t hate it when people write it the other way around.

i personally like sub magnus/dom alec for multiple reasons: i relate to magnus and project things i like onto him, i think magnus deserves to let go and be taken care of for once, i think alec’s characterization fits more with him being the dominant sort in bed, etc. there’s also an element of spite--we’ll get to that in a sec.

i mostly dislike dom magnus/sub alec because a) it’s overdone, and by overdone i don’t mean “aw how cliche” i mean “LITERALLY EVERYONE DOES IT AND THEY PUT IT IN EVERYTHING AND MENTION IT ALL THE TIME AND IT GETS REALLY OLD.”  b) it’s usually done badly--making alec ooc as fuck and into this like, homophobic stereotype of this infantile helpless baby? like, not just soft and vulnerable, but like, legit just this blushing virtuous damsel who can do no wrong and is obsessed with cock. stuff like that. not to mention magnus is often made into a cocky top with no feelings beyond “take care of alec” “accidentally hurt alec” and “fuck alec”, and i hate that and think it does both of them a disservice. not to mention it can get into making alec “the girl” which has sexist AND homophobic implications (ie being a girl =/= being submissive/soft/delicate/tiny/out of control/pretty/innocent, and being a bottom =/= any of those things AND =/= being a girl). not every fan or person who enjoys bottom/sub alec does this but it’s very common. 

mostly i just dislike the fandom’s attitude towards it (calling anyone who enjoys bottom/sub magnus names and insisting they’re problematic, even when they haven’t done anything, and then the way they talk about/write bottom/sub alec) and when i get mad about something like that i tend to double down and stick to my opinion even harder because i’m a stubborn, spiteful bitch.

but also i just really enjoy sub magnus, ngl. both because of the whole i relate to him/like him and because like i said, i genuinely think he deserves to be taken care of and that alec would be a great candidate for that. i think alec would enjoy that, i think they’d both get a lot of pleasure from it, and i think it just works for their characterization. is there an element of “i think it’s hot”? sure. but look. lots of things are hot. thinking something is hot =/= fetishizing. 

not to mention literally anyone who has ever accused me, a mlm, of fetishizing mlm, is like. almost always non-mlm (i don’t think a fellow mlm has ever said that i was, but it’s not like i do a background check on every hater, and lots of them are anonymous, so) and it’s ALWAYS a bottom alec stan who wants me to write bottom alec. 

anyway, a mlm talking about top/bottom dom/sub is not in any way the same as like, a straight girl fetishizing a mlm relationship. people only ever bring that up in an argument when they dislike the other person’s choice of who’s doing what. they don’t really care about mlm or fetishization problems involving them one bit. (especially because they never call out the many, many bottom/sub alec fans who actually do do that? like, literally reducing alec’s character to “pretty little uke OwO” and shit. ugh.) 

(note: this isn’t aimed at you, you’re just politely asking a question and i have absolutely zero problem with that, i’m just talking about some of the people who i DO have a problem with lol) 

honestly tho, if the fandom wasn’t such a cesspool, i think i would have been a lot more open to writing about them switching, to having alec sub/bottom occasionally in my fics. but at this point, with all the gross characterization i’ve seen and the hateful anons i’ve gotten, i’m just staying away from it forever. i’ve latched on to my beautiful sub/bottom magnus headcanons and i’m never letting go :’) 

but really i’m not trying to police what others write--if people like bottom/sub alec, good on them. 

i just don’t like 1. super ooc characterization/fetishization, 2. trying to force me to write it, 3. when they just fucking add it into everything like. totally non-smut fic, randomly makes a comment about alec being a ‘total cockslut’ then goes back to fluffy coffee shop au. or when they suddenly turn it around in the middle of a smutty oneshot and their personalities do a u turn for the sake of their sub alec fetish like...... just write it like that from the beginning if you want that ok?? no need to be misleading and then butcher your own characterization??? 

i admit, the fact that it’s so popular it’s practically accepted as canon and is constantly shoved down my throat is really annoying, but i complain about it on my own personal blog--usually not even in the main tags--and i don’t harass authors who like it about it.

anYWAY, that’s my long opinionated rant hope it helped

[shinydixon]

part 2:

i mean, just look at the pics from when he was a teenager (they got leaked and were popping everywhere on pinterest, i didn't go searching for it but i did see it), he was already drinking and smoking and partying. that man is not an innocent little thing that doesn't know how to take care of himself. he's not gonna die if he reads thirst tweets, debra, for fuck's sake. and he's not going to come galloping to you and every other 'fan' who insist on treating him like a child.

my final thoughts are that joe is seriously on a high. sometimes shitty stuff happens, he gets stalked, doxxed, almost run over by a car apparently, but he's really happy about his career and how it's taking off. i think he's gonna try to enjoy the most out of it. he's said so himself. i don't think he has time for anything that isn't work or hanging out with his friends to relax and unwind. there will always be rumors and speculations and crazy fans and weird shit happening, there's no escaping it. so if you have anxiety, like me, and you get overwhelmed when you log in and there's this rush of new drama and rumors, the best thing to do is simply filter the shit out of everything you can filter, and try to focus on supporting joe, the actor.

i mean, read smut fics, imagine yourself spending two weeks on a vacation with him, do whatever you want to do, go nuts. but make sure to set boundaries. the joe in your head (in our heads, actually) is not and will never be the joe in real life. we don't know shit about him. we only get what he wants to show us and, much to my dismay, we also get what crazy people decide to leak. and we combine these things, these little pieces of information that he gives us at cons and interviews, and we slowly piece together an idealized version of joe. which is okay, it happens in every relationship. sometimes we create an idealized version of a real life crush and we find out the real deal is not that great. but yeah, just try to do your best to stay away from the rumors, the speculations and the several troll accounts that keep messing with joe fans on twitter. filter, block, delete…do whatever it takes to create your own space. i think the hype will go down very soon and the fandom will go back to what it used to be. and seriously, the simple explanation is often the correct one.

2/2

Thank you for your insight.

I mostly agree with everything (except for some things you said about Grace, I already explained myself a lot on the matter and also right now she's not doing anything to feed the ship lol) but it's impossible to filter drama when my blog is basically about Joe/Eddie right now.

As I said before, it's true I get overwhelmed and so does others and they come here to vent about that, and who am I to "close the doors"?

If I get overwhelmed I just log out for a little bit and do what I like (going out with NY friends, partying, playing videogames, read etc.) but then I come back and listen to what fellow Joe stans have to say.

Social media for some of us, are a mean to don't think about our everyday life and have fun but it's obvious that if you keep seeing shit like fake rumors spreading around you just want to vent and talk a about it with someone. If they don't have someone they come here and I'm happy to hear them and share both my opinions and thoughts.

Can't really relate to picture Joe into my head because I don't really read rpf, I just read fictional characters fic (not judging who write/reads them of course).

[warlordess]

Have you caught up on TGP yet? If so, what'd you think of the cliffhanger, and/or Janet's storyline so far? (And also Tahani and Jason's??) Always great to hear your thoughts. Oh and I'm so sorry you're feeling sick! I'll see if I can think up anything to entertain you, but if all else fails, do what I do and indulge in a few doses of the human sunshine that is Thomas Sanders, haha ;)

I’m assuming no new episodes have come out since the last one I saw a fair number of weeks ago (drats to falling in love with a series that only has 13-episode seasons).

I loved the cliffhanger. So many possibilities. How will Michael get out of his situation? Does Shawn plan on offering him the opportunity to save his own skin if he serves up Team Cockroach on a silver platter, as well as rats out his fellow demons who commandeered his fake Good Place vessel? Would Michael accept such terms after how far he’s come? Will Shawn catch on to the fact that Michael is double-compromised? Not only that he’s secretly attempted his FGP plan hundreds of more times than he should have but also that he’s been taking morality/ethics lessons that have clearly begun having an effect on him? I would really appreciate seeing a Michael who’s grown somehow protective of his human partners in crime for once... :-D

As much as I love all the progress Michael has made - and, just as with Eleanor last season - how realistically it’s all been written/portrayed to the audience, I do earnestly feel as though all the other characters in Team Cockroach have suffered, more or less.

I’m especially not much a fan of Tahani, no matter how that may alienate me from the rest of TGP fandom. She features a lot of core traits that I find aggravating in people, and the story hasn’t really focused on her developing away from them other than her initial line of, “I want to become that person!” I know it’s going to change, buuut the wait is exceedingly difficult for me. Yes, she’s tried to open up a bit, and mostly thanks to her relationship with Jason... but that’s not enough for me.

We’ve already seen Eleanor change once so we know entirely that she’s capable of it, and we’ve seen bits and pieces of the changed Eleanor from season one in season two already (things like unexpected and unprecedented loyalty to Chidi, supporting other female characters when her past self would have selfishly torn them down just for kicks, etc). And Chidi is the one in the group the least in need of change. After all, the only reason he ended up in the bad place is because his ethical indecision during his life caused the torturing of his friends/family. That’s just something he’s going to have to need time or serious therapy to improve on. Like, he has to be put in the position of making decisions by force - start with small ones - and work up from there.

And that leaves us with Jason. Part of me hasn’t been his biggest fan in the past either, but I think that stemmed from my fear that he couldn’t really grow as a character because he’s written so completely stupid that the ramifications of making good versus bad decisions go right over his head. That was how he lived his life, by just choosing whatever path was most convenient for him. Sometimes that meant being loyal to Pillboy (is that supposed to be one word?) and taking job opportunities to improve his chances at becoming a professional DJ, as well as offering heartfelt advice in some manner to acquaintances in the afterlife. Other times that meant setting someone’s boat on fire in revenge, selling out a girlfriend to one of his dance troupe members for the sake of the rest of the group, or else attempting to set fire to the train that he was supposed to be taking back to the good place in order to avoid eternal damnation in the after life.

The writing has not dictated whether or not he’s capable of conscious (or even unconscious, yet consistent) moral growth, even though there have been a couple isolated incidents in which he appeared to have a thorough core understanding of a particular brand of ethics.

Nowadays, I really enjoy Jason for who he is. He can easily be one of the most pure-hearted characters of the show. It just remains to be seen if, like I said before, he can be taught to make consistently good decisions.

There are other things I’m really looking forward to seeing. What will happen to Chidi x Eleanor after they finally had their breakthrough discussion about the sex tape and the ‘I love you’? And the same about Tahani and Jason after their original rapid progression towards a marriage ceremony, as well as to Janet who is clearly struggling with her own feelings for Jason? Will the true good place be introduced before the end of the season? Is the crew going to end up on the run now that Shawn is apparently aware of how many FGP attempts there have been? Will one of the goals of Team Cockroach be to change the rules of the point system, considering how incredibly unfair they are? Etc, etc.

Man, I can hardly wait!

Thanks for your concern about my sickness. I’m just gonna hunker down on meds and rest and... figure out if I should take the recommended few days off from work I was told to take... I really don’t want to. ^^ ;;